In defense of Kristen Gillibrand, vis-a-vis Al Franken

[oberliner]

11/3/17: Gillibrand to introduce bill to combat sexual harassment in Congress

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) said on Friday that she will introduce legislation aimed at combating sexual harassment around Capitol Hill as female lawmakers and staffers increasingly speak out about their own experiences.

"We must ensure that this institution handles complaints to create an environment where staffers can come forward if something happens to them without having to fear that it will ruin their careers," Gillibrand said in a statement.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/358652-gillibrand-to-introduce-bill-to-combat-sexual-harassment-in

11/15/17: 'Me Too' Legislation Aims To Combat Sexual Harassment In Congress

A group of House and Senate lawmakers introduced legislation Wednesday to overhaul the system for filing and settling harassment claims from congressional employees.
...
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y., is leading the effort in the Senate. She has previously disclosed that she has been harassed by unnamed male colleagues. She has also worked on combating sexual abuse in the U.S. military. "There is a serious sexual harassment problem in Congress and too many congressional offices are not taking this problem seriously at all," Gillibrand said.

https://www.npr.org/2017/11/15/564405871/me-too-legislation-aims-to-combat-sexual-harassment-in-congress

WATCH: Sen. Gillibrand, Rep. Speier introduce bill on sexual harassment (November 15, 2017, 12:15PM EST)

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y., and Rep. Jackie Speier, D-Calif., introduced a bill Wednesday aimed at preventing and responding to sexual harassment in Congress.

Called the Member and Employee Training and Oversight On (ME TOO) Congress Act, the legislation would require more transparency and provide better support for victims and whistleblowers, the sponsors said.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-live-sen-gillibrand-rep-speier-introduce-bill-on-sexual-harassment

To summarize, Gillibrand had been actively promoting legislation she was introducing to address sexual harassment in Congress and to provide support for victims and whistleblowers. She was doing publicity for this legislation throughout early November and she introduced the bill in Congress on 11/15/17 (with much press attention).

Literally, the next day, a woman makes the first accusation against Franken and he immediately issues an apology. The accusation and Franken's statement of apology occur on 11/16/17 - the day after Gillibrand has introduced this legislation dealing with sexual harassment in Congress that she had been continuing to do press for.

Here's an excerpt from Franken's apology statement on that date: "I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate."

This is what Franken himself said in the statement he issued on 11/16.

Of course, Gillibrand, who is still doing press about her legislation is now getting asked about this. Reporters ask her if she believes the woman accusing Franken. She is being asked these questions as she is promoting several bills related to sexual harassment in Congress and the military.

She is asked repeatedly if Franken should resign at this point and she does not say that he should. She says that she wants to hear more from Senator Franken on this. To reiterate, this is going on as she is trying to promote legislation combatting sexual harassment.

She did not just spontaneously start some kind of attack against Franken - she was already doing this press tour and was repeatedly being asked these questions that put her in this extremely difficult position.

The calls for Franken to resign came later after the various other accusations were publicized. The resignation statements were coordinated among six female Democratic senators (including Kamala Harris), and later endorsed by thirty-two total Democratic senators.

I think people have this misunderstanding of Gillibrand leading some kind of charge against Franken when the reality is that she was thrust into a situation where she had to take a position and respond to questions because she had just prior to this story breaking been out front promoting legislation addressing sexual harassment in Congress.

[FSogol]

1. Not enough Franken division on DU these days?

From wiki:

Examples of transparent items are glass, water, and air. Those materials that allow some light to pass through them are called translucent and include things like frosted glass and wax paper. If an object does not allow any light to pass through it then it is opaque.

[brush]

9. Heehee! Well done.

[TheRealNorth]

11. Minnesota is a big target for Republicans

2 Senate seats, 5 competitive house seats, a governorship away from making Minnesota go the way of Wisconsin.

So yes, there is a concerted effort by Russian trolls and their Republican allies to drive MN liberals from voting Democrat.

I just hope the national democrats look at MN as being "In the bag" while Republicans drop millions of money here.

[Scruffy1]

22. They will miss the target.

Tina Smith has a large spread over challengers.

[unblock]

2. ...

[elfin]

3. Forget it. She is dead to me. EOM

[NCTraveler]

4. lolz nt

[dchill]

5. Not.

[hlthe2b]

6. She badly damaged the good she did by leading the charge for Franken to resign without process

More importantly she failed (neh REFUSED) to see a difference between the " worst of the worst" of sexual abuse/assault versus accusations of misbehavior potentially open to interpretation or misrepresentation. She refused to see and STILL refuses to acknowledge there are gradients in inappropriate behavior.

That kind of absolutism is dangerous in nearly all contexts. She started out laudable, but her self-sanctimony and ambitions have set ALL of us back and benefited only the RW.

You can keep this up forever, oberliner. Most of us saw it as it happened and we KNOW the truth. We do NOT forget.

Like most here, I support her as a DEM against any R, but higher office, NO.

[enough]

8. Well said. NT

[oberliner]

10. Do you support Kamala Harris for higher office?

Link to tweet

"Sexual harassment and misconduct should not be allowed by anyone and should not occur anywhere. I believe the best thing for Senator Franken to do is step down." - Kamala Harris

By the way, Gillibrand said in her FB post:

" (Franken's) behavior is not the same as the criminal conduct alleged against Roy Moore, or Harvey Weinstein, or President Trump"

and

"Senator Franken is entitled to have the Ethics Committee conclude its review"

[hlthe2b]

13. She didn't self promote at Franken's expense. Gillibrand DID at EVERY opportunity.

as is her history on this issue (e.g., her 180 degree stance and recent attack on Clinton).

[OnDoutside]

16. Yes, every other prospective candidate felt (rightly or wrongly), felt they had to mark her move.

[aeromanKC]

30. No

However, I will vote straight D ticket in 2020

[question everything]

54. No. Because of Franken and becuase of her support for Civil forfeiture

while the AG of CA. Just like... Sessions.

[DFW]

109. For the record

Although I will vote for our candidate for president in 2020, I support NO ONE who encouraged Al Franken to resign as our nominee for the presidency. Anyone that easily taken in by such nonsense is not presidential material to me.

Of course, my input into the question will be limited to one vote in the Texas primary by absentee ballot in 2020, so I am under no illusions.

[blue cat]

78. What you said. N/t

[OnDoutside]

7. Episode One : The art of flogging a dead horse.

The reassuring thing that already condemns any ill-fated 2020 campaign, is not only stabbing a great Democratic Senator in the back, but topping it by stabbing a great Democratic President in the back (who had been supportive for a long time), all for personal advantage.

[brush]

12. Yes, she pulled Bill Clinton into it too over the long ago, consensual Lewinski affair..

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

53. The #metoo movement pulled Bill into it.

[brush]

59. I personally heard Gillebrand being interviewed and she bought...

Clinton's name when talking about the Franken case.

Pls, if you don't know the details of what you're talking about...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

74. I heard that too... but it's the #metoo movement that's fueling the increased scrutiny.

[brush]

75. I'm all for the #me_too movement.

[roscoeroscoe]

39. I don't think

That's episode one...

[LanternWaste]

14. I'll go with Translucent for $500, Alex.

Gotta hand it you, though-- the irrelevancy of whether one supports Harris moved the goalposts with a quick deftness even trapeze artists would envy.

[NCjack]

15. I'm a good DEM. If she becomes our nominee, I will vote for her. nt

[Kingofalldems]

17. Oh yeah, I remember, oberliner:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141915573

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029864792

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029855958

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029860381

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029865792

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141920766

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029882230

[oberliner]

24. I'd encourage people to read those articles as well

First two are from:

ABC
LA Times

Bottom three are from:

Washington Post (x2)
Huffington Post

Other ones are just my own comments/reflections.

Hopefully with more reflection, people can see that the actions of Kristen Gillibrand, Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, Mazie Hirono, and the 30+ other Democratic Senators made some sense at the time.

[Drahthaardogs]

103. It was a Roger Stone hit job, one woman was a Sean Hannity

Plant, another a fucking loon, and a third has a lot in common with Mr. Snuffaluffagus...

Why do you keep beating this dead horse? No one is buying what you are selling.

[stonecutter357]

40. +1000

[RhodeIslandOne]

58. +1

[BannonsLiver]

60. Gee whiz

I may be telling tales out of school, but that sure looks like a pattern to me. Which begs the question, why?

[Trumpocalypse]

18. Thanks for posting this

It's too bad so many have already made up their mind on this subject.

[oberliner]

20. I appreciate your comment

[Trumpocalypse]

34. No problem

But reading the comments it is clear that many have made up their minds about this and won't bother to read what you posted.

[oberliner]

37. It does not seem like folks are actually reading my post

Or addressing the points raised, specifically with regard to the timeline.

[Trumpocalypse]

42. They don't want to

They've made up their mind and are unwilling to change it.

[flotsam]

21. The ACTUAL shame

attaches to Gillibrand who made up her "mind" in milliseconds.

[Trumpocalypse]

25. Plus She went to Franken's office

with Luca Brasi and s resignation letter. Had Luca hold a gun to Franken's head and told him either his signature or his brains would be on the resignation.

[LakeSuperiorView]

43. Can't you invent another sarcastic lie? You've already used this one today...

[Trumpocalypse]

46. Why?

No one else is.

[LakeSuperiorView]

48. No one else is posting blatent bullshit.

If you are going to make up lies at least be a little creative and then you can pass them off as satire when you get called on them.

Pretending that Gillibrand is lilly white on torpedoing Franken and whatabouting Harris and others are pretty much mutually exclusive.

Gillibrand still is a Senator, the people in New York seem OK with her. The opinions of everyone else don't matter as they can't vote for her. If she puts herself up for national office, then those people will get a chance to vote for or against her. Until then it really doesn't matter if people think she is a self serving traitor to her party, they can't vote against her.

[Trumpocalypse]

49. Yes they are

My post at least had some wit to it.

[LakeSuperiorView]

65. Could you cite some of this bullshit that you claim is being posted?

You have been fairly demanding of others to provide links, goose/gander and all.

Wit? Threats with firearms are your conception of wit?

[Trumpocalypse]

67. You must have missed the point.

Rent The Godfather and you'll get it.

[LakeSuperiorView]

73. Or, so you have nothing to back up your claim.

Blind faith in Gillibrand, who can do no wrong seems to be your message, as far as I can see.

She didn't do anything wrong, and besides all those other people joined into her attack, so don't call her out for advocating for Franken's resignation.

My beef is all the people, who shouldn't have any say in Minnesota's elections, forcing their views down our throats.

[Trumpocalypse]

80. You still miss the point

Franken apologized several times and chose to resign. No one forced him to. Demonizing anyone else for what in the end was Franken's decision is unfair.

[LakeSuperiorView]

105. I think you miss the point badly.

Loudly and repeatedly calling for the resignation of a senator of your own party without due process, to eliminate a potential competitor to higher office deserves all the scorn it attracts. If she chooses to run for President in 2020, she has to face the nation for what she did. If she chooses not to run for president, then she only has to face the residents of New York in 2022.

Attempting to say she did nothing is absolutely ridiculous.

[Trumpocalypse]

108. Due process???

Somehow due process only seems to apply to Franken. Due process is not a political consideration.

Plus she was one of over 30 senators who all condemned Franken including Warren and Harris:

Link to tweet

?lang=en

So why is only one demonized for it? Seems unfair. As does ascribing a motive such as trying "to eliminate a potential competitor to higher office" without any shred of evidence of that. Were Warren and Harris trying "to eliminate a potential competitor to higher office" too?

And Gillibrand is up for reelection this year, not in 22. To go by the polls the residents of New York really don't seem to care about what she did.

[LakeSuperiorView]

110. My bad, she is up for re-election this year.

She was the defacto leader of the the senators by being first and most vocal. The fact that she is reportedly considering a run for President in 2020 combined with people saying that Franken should run (despite him saying he wouldn't) makes her look self-serving.

Calling her demonized by people who have no ability to vote for or against her is pointless. No one is calling on her to resign. She demonized Franken. That is a fact.

Wouldn't the energy you expend defending her from people factually saying she was one on the major causes that contributed Franken's decision to resign be better spent elsewhere? It's not like you are getting paid to cleanup the fallout of her actions.

Since this is a done deal and nothing is going to change unless she runs for president, feel free to make another inane whataboutism and say she did nothing wrong and lets more on to something else.

[Trumpocalypse]

113. Look self serving to whom?

Those who idolize Franken? Assigning a motive without proof is just demonizing for the sake of it.

And demonizing someone is wrong regardless of whether people can vote for her or not. I remember another female Senator from New York who was demonized for year by people who couldn't vote for her. How did that work out for the country in the end?

She did not demonize Franken. He did that to himself by constantly apologizing rather than fighting back.

Nor it is factual to claim that she was the major cause of Franken resigning. If you read the OP or other posts on the subject by oberliner, you would know the real facts this. Plus it is hypocrisy to single her out and not lay any blame to any of the other 30 so senators, including Warren and Harris, who also called on Franken to resign.

[DFW]

111. References to iconic tales seem to go over many heads these days

No one seems to know who Alexander Throttlebottom or Mr. Scratch were, either.

It should come as no surprise that a reference to Luca Brasi should command an equally blank stare.
Io l'avevo capito, in ogni caso!

[lame54]

57. I missed the point where see addressed our grievances

[flotsam]

19. She led the lynch mob

and is permanently marked by that act. She denied due process to a co-worker and that is contemptible.

[aeromanKC]

29. + gazillion billion

Unforgivable to deny due process.

[Trumpocalypse]

36. No Franken himself led the lynch mob

by his constant apologizing instead of fighting back.

[LexVegas]

23. Every Franken thread turns into a bash Gillibrand thread.

Rarely see others that called for his resignation bashed. Like Harris, or Sanders.

[oberliner]

26. It is unfortunate

Hopefully if people look over the timeline I posted above, they might get a little more understanding about why Gillibrand was thrust into the middle of things rather quickly.

As a side note, the anti-sexual harassment legislation she introduced at the time still has not passed (or even been put to a vote).

[Kingofalldems]

28. So how many threads have you posted on the GOP's lack of action on the legislation?

[oberliner]

32. Here's a good OP about it

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210425887

Can't take credit for posting it - but it has some good info if you are interested in the subject.

Links to this article:

Every Woman in the Senate Is Demanding a Vote on a Sexual Harassment Bill

Every woman Senator is urging Senate leadership to bring up legislation that would address sexual harassment and discrimination on Capitol Hill.

In a letter signed by all 22 women Senators—Republicans and Democrats—the Senators say they are disappointed that the upper chamber has not acted to enact reforms to the 20-year old law that forces survivors of harassment to undergo an arduous process when bringing their claims forward.

http://time.com/5218765/congress-sexual-harassment-legislation/

Sadly, I haven't really seen much in the news about it since then.

[Kingofalldems]

33. You posted so much on Franken, oberliner, I just thought you might post--

numerous threads on the GOP's total lack of action on the sexual harassment legislation. Guess not.

[oberliner]

101. Good point

I will try to post more threads on this topic as I come across them in the future.

[aeromanKC]

27. Kristen who?

Nope, no Kristen on my who to vote for list.

[poetshepherd]

31. Franken's accusers never questioned under oath

And why did Al "grope" all these women in public, in front of their husbands? In one case, in front of thousands of witnesses?

Gillibrand stepped over Franken b/c she's deluded enough to see herself on the 2020 ticket. That is now closed to her. Had she insisted all parties testify under oath, she would have HELPED the 'me too' cause, and her own ambitions.

She simply lowered the bar.

[oberliner]

99. It does not seem like you gave any consideration to the points made in my post

[peggysue2]

35. Gillibrand has done a lot of good work on the issue of . . .

harassment and violence against women. I think kicking Franken to the curb was wrong-headed, dumb and counterproductive (his offense was minor while his clout in the Senate was significant).

However, yesterday I read a distressing article about the MeToo movement, the focus of which was on a 'pioneer, an icon' of the movement itself. Who was that?

Linda Tripp!

Yes, that Linda Tripp of Monica Lewinsky blue dress fame, who is now described as a woman willing to stand up for principle.

Oh, good grief!

Excuse me if I find myself just a wee bit suspicious of Tripp's motives here.

Wanted to provide a link with this article but--for whatever reason--had trouble copying. A quick search with Tripp's name and MeToo will bring the article up.

Interesting!

[Blue_true]

38. She was just one of something like 35 that called for Franken to step down.

I don't get why people choose to single her out for abuse. If she is as influential as those people claim she is, please make her President now.

She has been a longtime warrior against sexual harassment and rape occurring in government service. Her efforts to reform the military have been years long, going back to when she was in the House.

[flotsam]

44. You don't get it?

Have you ever watched a western? When someone gets lynched the sheriff always starts the arrests with the leader of the lynch mob.

[Trumpocalypse]

50. Yes. I'm sure the Senate operates just like

a western movie.

[mythology]

47. Because it's easier to dismiss if it was one person

It's a way to avoid dealing with the reality that Franken did it to himself through his own actions. He apologized for how he treated women.

It's the same reason the accusations are dismissed as all being from Republican partisans when multiple of the accusers were Democrats.

People like to justify things because it's hard to deal with facts that go against their beliefs. It's easier to not acknowledge the inconvenient parts.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/04/denial-science-chris-mooney/

[Trumpocalypse]

51. Well said nt

[Blue_true]

71. Some even claimed that the accusers who were democrats were lying.

Eventhough one was a former congressional staffer for a liberal congressman and two were grassroots operators that had dedicated a good part of their life to the party and progressive causes.

[LisaL]

83. Those would be the anonymous ones?

[oberliner]

98. Tina Dupuy was not anonymous

[Blue_true]

107. That does not make their claim untrue. I remember that some time sequence info buttressed what they

said.

[oberliner]

97. Thank you for this post

I agree on all points.

[stonecutter357]

41. lol

[mn9driver]

45. Gillibrand must have missed these letters.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5033572/saturday-night-live-women-alumni-al-franken

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/female-former-staffers-of-al-franken-come-to-his-defense/

Or maybe they just didn’t fit her narrative.

[oberliner]

96. Again, why is she singled out?

[wasupaloopa]

52. "accusations" He was asked to resign

with any proof of guilt.

She is guilty of not defending the Constitution

[oberliner]

95. Lots of people get asked to resign without proof of any guilt

One option would have been for him to say, no, I am not resigning.

[lame54]

55. I'm glad she's not into ruining careers

[Demit]

56. "Gillibrand was the first woman in the Senate to call on Franken to quit..."

— https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/democratic-women-senators-call-franken-resign-amid-sexual-misconduct-allegations-n827036

Of course she had reasons behind what she did. No one has said she "spontaneously" started an attack on Al Franken. But she was the first to call for him to resign. Whether she felt forced by circumstances or not, she was the first to call for him to resign.

You can't misunderstand a fact.

[oberliner]

62. "all putting out statements within minutes of one another..."

From your link:

Sens. Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, Claire McCaskill of Missouri, Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire, Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, Kamala Harris of California, Patty Murray of Washington and Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin kicked off the stampede on Wednesday, all putting out statements within minutes of one another saying it was time for Franken to go.

Seems like those other names don't get the same kind of flak that Gillibrand does, even though they put out statements calling for Franken to resign at basically the same time (and clearly had coordinated with one another).

The Kamala Harris tweet, for instance, was sent out literally within a few minutes of the Facebook post from Gillibrand. Yet this does not seemed to have impacted people's opinions of Harris in the same way as it has with Gillibrand.

[Demit]

63. Yes, AFTER Gillibrand. Gillibrand coordinated it.

You can't seriously be arguing that six busy politicians are all calling one another in some kind of round robin thing until they all agree on an action. ONE person coordinates an activity. And that was Gillibrand.

It was her hobby horse and she got the others to sign on. That's what politicians DO.

[oberliner]

94. Her hobby horse?

[heaven05]

61. nothing wrong with her

legislative priorities. Women must stand up for themselves against sexual harassment. The Franken debacle was handled badly and with rancour by the people who hated his character and integrity, attacked him and drove him out of town on a rail after tarring and feathering him unjustly. Defend all you care too. Doesn't make the final actions against Al Franken just. We lost a strong vote in perilous times.

[oberliner]

93. Those are good points

[oasis]

64. Seems like KG couldn't handle too much coming at her at one time.

If that was the case, Franken was a victim of her rush to judgement. Not a good look for someone seeking the presidency.

[oberliner]

92. How should she have handled it?

[oasis]

102. She should have allowed Sen. Franken the space to work through the

situation with HIS plan. He wanted his case to be examined by the senate ethics committee.

[Vinca]

66. Gillibrand overreacted. She got all caught up in the "Me Too" movement and didn't stop to think

that even if the charges against Franken were proved 100% true, the bar in her book is so low that every adult is probably guilty of sexual harassment. I still can't get past the photo on the plane which was so clearly comedic you'd have to be Stevie Wonder not to see it.

[oberliner]

68. Franken himself said: "I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny."

Here's that part of his statement in full:

For instance, that picture. I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.

That is Franken himself saying the picture is not funny and is inappropriate. And he even goes out of his way to say he can see how millions of women would feel violated by it.

[Vinca]

69. Of course he's going to say that. But my statement is also true because I have

2 eyes and a sense of humor.

[oberliner]

91. He could have said something more along the lines of what you said

[Funtatlaguy]

76. Yes. Self appointed moral compass of the party.

[Bettie]

70. If she runs for president

I will not vote for her in a primary. Never. Her ambition appears to be more important than anything else and that comes not from her opportunism on Franken, but her opportunism on several things.

If she ends up being the nominee (which I doubt) I'd hold my nose and vote for her.

But don't try to feed me the line about how she's just a poor little innocent who got picked on.

[Funtatlaguy]

77. She'd get creamed in the primary. And she knows it.

[Trumpocalypse]

81. Her Ambition?

I remember hearing the same kind of accusations of another female Senator from New York. How did years of demonizing her work out?

[Bettie]

85. I already said I'd vote for her in a general election

I won't in a primary.

Every one of us is allowed to vote for whomever they please in a primary. But, i get that there are plenty out there who believe that a primary should be 'one choice, not chosen by the people'.

So, you can have your opinion that she's super and I can have mine that she's not.

[Trumpocalypse]

106. Yes but

What effect will the constant demonizing of her, with no evidence, have on others? Not saying that she's super but ascribing bad motives to her actions is not fair.

[Bettie]

112. I replied to a post

that, upon reflection, appears to be meant to give people like you and the OP reasons to admonish and finger wag those of us who aren't her fans.

So, I'm done. Again, my opinion is my own, yours is yours. I am not obligated to adore each and every Democrat. I am obligated to vote for those on the ballot in my area.

[Trumpocalypse]

114. Not just opinion

but a matter of fact. You should read the OP and other posts by oberliner on the subject to learn the real facts about this.

[Bettie]

115. Still finger wagging

and now demanding that I agree with the OP. Interesting.

I have seen posts by this person and I have my own opinion of them as well.

Again, not required to agree with your or Ober.

[Trumpocalypse]

116. Not saying you have to agree with anyone

But as a great Senator once said, 'Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, not their own facts'.

[oberliner]

90. So you held this opinion about her prior to what happened with Franken?

[Mr. Ected]

72. I only agree to the extent that we have isolated Gillibrand as the antagonist

When it was readily apparent at the time that dozens of Dems co-signed with her, as well as a number of media figures on CNN and MSNBC. I was equally disgusted and mortified by their behavior, and would not vote for a single one of them in a primary battle.

Al Franken was my kind of Democrat. Now he's my most beloved sacrificial lamb, and not a single woman has been made whole by his absence in Congress. Shame on everyone who jumped onto the bandwagon to fortify their Me.Too position.

Now please stop peeling scabs. This discussion has been repeated ad nauseum, and we all know where we stand on it.

[oberliner]

89. Thank you for sharing your perspective

I do think it is important to provide some defense of Gillibrand since she still seems to get unfairly attacked about this. She is a Democrat whom I admire and it frustrates me when people still have such negative feelings towards her in relation to his. I really do not think she deserves the degree of animus she gets and I tried to present a thoughtful argument in support of that.

[tenderfoot]

79. LOL

[oberliner]

88. What do you mean by posting this video?

[grantcart]

82. Worst OP of the year, which is remarkable given the competition

[oberliner]

86. In what respect?

[Cha]

84. TRASH.

[oberliner]

87. Thank you for your insights

[tammywammy]

100. The female senators coordinated their statement releases.

They had been talking for days before the statements came out. And they wanted Gillibrand to go first because of her history with sexual harassment legislation.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/06/politics/senators-al-franken-resignation/index.html

[MineralMan]

104. Here. Go look at this:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10944261

Your post defending Gillibrand has six recommendations. The other post, well, you can see for yourself. You're holding an unpopular opinion, which is fine, but it's important to recognize that.

[vi5]

117. Her handling of the Franken issue was merely the last straw for me....

That fact that she was a loud and proud blue dog and critic of the Clinton's until it wasn't convenient for her to be either one of those things and win statewide office show me that more so than most politicians she's out for herself and herself only. I didn't like her well before she called for Franken's resignation, and that just was the proverbial nail in the coffin for me.

There were other women who made statements on the Franken issue who don't have a long history of craven, self-serving political maneuvers and who also have unblemished progressive track records.