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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy are some on the Left So Indifferent About Russian Sabotage of our Election?
Back in school, I used to have this friend Nick. I lost track of Nick a long time ago, unfortunately. But Nick was a cool guy. Nick and I used to talk .. well argue ... politics all the time. But despite our disagreements, I really admired him. He was a smart and passionate and willing to put his money where his mouth was. Last I heard of him, he had been sent by the Communist Party USA (of which he was a card carrying member) to "infiltrate" some union in NYC.
As thoughtful and as passionate and as committed as Nick was, he definitely had his blind spots. He kept trying to convince me that the Red Army, of all things, was actually a force of liberation and modernization in the world. Now this was back in the days of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. He would say to me that if the US policy establishment wasn't so reflexively anti-Soviet, they would applaud and assist the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan rather than surreptitiously resist it.
I thought of Nick today for the first time in awhile when I read the following three articles, one from a year or so ago, two of which are more recent. The first is an interview with Chomsky. The second is from Counterpunch and is written by Garry Leupp of Tufts University (about whom I know little) and the third is by the journalist Johnathan Chait.
Something is going on in certain quarters of the left these days, that I just don't get. I used to think that it was just tied to intense hatred of Hilary Clinton coupled with an intense desire to undercut any possible claim of her's to actually be the legitimate President of the US, primarily because they were unwilling to do anything that would undercut their own right to bash and bash Hilary for her "utterly failed" campaign.
But I don't think that's right any more. At least it's not the whole story.
It's gotta be something deeper than that, much deeper. But I still don't understand it.
I definitely understood the romance that some idealistic young people like Nick had with Communism. Especially in the early days of that experiment (before the War and before the horrors of Stalin). After all, at the core of Communism was a grand ideological vision for the transformation of society that was deeply humanistic. What idealistic young person dedicated to the betterment of humanity at large wouldn't be at least somewhat drawn to such an endeavor? But long before the time that the Soviets decided to bring modernity to Afghanistan, with tanks and helicopter gunships as their preferred tool, no less, you would have thought that the romance should have long been over. Or so it seemed to me at the time. But it wasn't for Nick. (I know, I know, our own misbegotten wars in both Afghanistan and Iraq smack of exactly the same blind imperialistic hubris. But that's a subject for another day.)
But here's the thing I don't get. Unlike the Soviets, Putin doesn't even have the facade of a grand humanistic ideology on his side. He is to all accounts just a kleptocratic thug , driven at least in part by nostalgia for lost empire and deep resentment over the role of the West in hastening the decline of the Russian empire.
And again, this isn't to say that US policy toward Russia is all sweetness and light.
But frankly, some on the left these days seem as misguided as my old school chum Nick did back in the days of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The Russian attempt to sabotage our election was an act of extreme hostility. This is not the moment for misguided 'what-about-ism." And it's not a time to seek a live and let live detent with Putin, especially not if such a detent is entirely on his terms.
So I find it passing strange that although most on the left rightly recoil at many, many things about Trump, they seem at the same time very much tempted to embrace his incoherent and potentially deeply destabilizing foreign policy.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-06/noam-chomsky-calls-democrats-obsession-russia-conspiracy-theories-joke
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/07/27/keeping-russia-as-an-enemy/
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/why-are-so-many-leftists-skeptical-of-the-russia-probe.html
awesomerwb1
(4,267 posts)Please don't link to that garbage of a website.
At least you didn't provide a link to infowars.
that garbagehedge article is from over a year ago. Not sure why you're posting that stuff.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)Why is it that some self-avowed lefties are so indifferent to the Russian thing.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)This OP smells of trolling
kennetha
(3,666 posts)The point is the interview with Chomsky and what he has to say about Russia.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)and you ended with this putrid turd:
most on the left??
Are YOU kidding ME??
kennetha
(3,666 posts)Some on today's left remind me of Nick. Nick was the set up for my thoughts about some of today's left. But you knew that, right?
uponit7771
(90,323 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 31, 2018, 04:24 PM - Edit history (1)
brush
(53,758 posts)uponit7771
(90,323 posts)brush
(53,758 posts)LonePirate
(13,412 posts)As long as she lost, they dont care how it happened. Thus, the indifference to the Russian interference.
Had Bernie been the Democratic nominee and Russian intereference prevented him from winning, these same far lefties would burn down DC until the election was overturned or forfeited.
kennetha
(3,666 posts)But I'm not sure that's enough to explain it. I mean most on the left dislike Trump and awful lot. And while they will rail against many (but not all) of his policies they are strangely sanguine about the possibility that he is Putin's Puppet or even that Russian sabotage fo the election was effective.
Gothmog
(145,046 posts)The posters on JPR do not believe that there were any interference by Russia and that this is a hoax. These same posters still believe that the pizzagate scam is real
kennetha
(3,666 posts)excuse my ignorance.
genxlib
(5,524 posts)A splinter group that left here called JackPine Radicals after a particular old DUer.
They have a website of their own and keep getting farther and farther off the deep end.
Gothmog
(145,046 posts)Here are some threads from that board
https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/the-utility-of-the-russiagate-conspiracy/
https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/youd-have-trump-waterboard-putin-stephen-cohen-schools-max-boot-on-cnn/
https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/skripal-spoke-to-uk-spies-about-the-russian-mafia-seymour-hersh-doubles-down/
https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/the-burden-of-proof-is-on-the-russiagaters/
https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/sv-asks-can-we-put-it-to-rest-that-hillary-was-a-bad-candidate/
https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/jill-stein-voters-now-responsible-for-trumps-kidnapping/
https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/the-vichy-democrats/
At one point there were a dozen or so pizzagate threads on this board.
My favorite though is this thread where the assholes who post on that board applauded Congressman John Lewis for being booed at the Democratic National Convention https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/hey-john-lewis-karmas-a-mf-aint-it/
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I'm quite ticked at trump and his campaign for using Russia to help them win. But, I'm not for bombing Russia, cyber attacking them, etc. We've done this crap to them before, so we shouldn't be surprised they did it to us.
We should have been ready to respond to Russian lies and swiftboating, but we weren't.
Point is, I'm for focusing on the traitors and cheats that used Russia to interfere with the election. I want them out of office, neutered, imprisoned if possible, shamed, etc. But if we have to wait a couple of years to build a case to prosecute them, I'd rather Mueller and others release preliminary reports BEFORE the November elections so that voters can take that into account when the pull the lever. Taking the House would help neuter trump, taking the Senate too would even be better.