Bill Kristol, re polls, to his "fellow white men over 55: You're a great disappointment to me."

[highplainsdem]

Link to tweet

I’ve been looking at some polling crosstabs and I’ve got to say to my fellow white men over 55: You’re a great disappointment to me. On the other hand it seems fitting and consistent with the American story that women, minorities and young people now step up to save the republic.

[Geechie]

1. Dear Bill,

Go F yourself.

[Zorro]

3. Amen to that

[JDC]

32. I'll sign on to that

[bitterross]

44. Exactly. He's a huge disappointment.

As if he should even consider chastising anyone else.

Kiss my ass and F-off Kristol.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

55. Seriously.

[uponit7771]

68. +1, but he's now woke and most likely mentally shocked ... sucks that it takes all this to do that

[BigmanPigman]

2. I like the "American story" patriotism he refers to.

I just saw a DU photo of two older, white men wearing pro-Russia t-shirts and had the same thought. Bill must be embarrassed to be in the same demographic as these un-American/unpatriotic cult members.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210965262

[Geechie]

5. Embarrassment

Would be too easy on him. He should be totally ashamed to have played a part in creating this mess.

[BigmanPigman]

8. Anyone who has been a Repub has contributed

to the current situation since it has been set up by their party since Reagan, or even earlier.

[Garrett78]

43. Earlier.

Support from older white folks (especially men) has been the Republican Party foundation for decades. And Trump is the almost inevitable result of Republican rhetoric and policy over the last 50 years. In other words, people like Kristol helped create this monster.

[orangecrush]

4. I am 60

I am a democrat.

I vote democratic in every election, local and national.

When the voting booth curtain closes, I am not white, black or other.

I am a straight democratic voter.

[frogmarch]

6. Go to hell, Bill

you effing PNACer.

[Geechie]

7. And take David Brooks with you.

Quislings.

[EarnestPutz]

12. "PNAC" - the ill conceived and ill fated...

..."Project for a New American Century". These are the
rabid Pro-Israeli nut jobs who loved themselves some
Middle East invasion to overthrow Saddam, reshape the M.E.
and ensure Israeli hegemony in the region, forever and ever.
Still waiting to see how that's going to work out in the end?
You missed it. Two trillion dollars down the drain, thousands of
our troops dead, thousands more permanently damaged and
institutionalized (lest we forget) because these idiots told Shrub
that "he tried to kill your Dad" and they had a plan.

[frogmarch]

17. Thanks. PNAC was

founded by Bill Krystol and Robert Kagan, who in 2009 replaced it with the Foreign Policy Initiative - which was dissolved in 2017.

[Mendocino]

9. So sorry Bill,

to live up to the low expectations you have for me.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. He's not saying white men over 55 as individuals

I suspect Trump's approval within that cohort is over 70%

[Garrett78]

45. Maybe even 80%.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. You have to tease out the numbers.

Most polls don't break it down that far.

[Awsi Dooger]

48. White males 50-64 approve 66-31%

Up to 69% if you narrow to non-college graduate

https://www.civiqs.com/results/approve_president_trump?annotations=true&net=false&uncertainty=true&age=50-64&race=White&gender=Male

I'm in that group. My friends in the bracket follow the trend, at least 2/3 support Trump. But some of the ones who oppose Trump are the sharpest and most vocal.

White males are always going to be a problem. Too many of them follow that "Daddy Party" crap and don't care about details. They want to be the ruthless rich power broker with all the mistresses.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. You will like this article. Has nothing to do with the topic though

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/jobs-boom-favors-democratic-counties-not-trump-strongholds/ar-BBLuhkY

[Awsi Dooger]

53. Thanks...I hadn't seen that

I'll post it elsewhere.

The findings are common sense but I guarantee Trump supporters would insist the other way, if asked before told.

[Garrett78]

59. If the 50-64 group is at 66%, I would think the 55-105 group is over 75%.

[Awsi Dooger]

60. Actually 65+ is slightly lower at 63% approval

https://www.civiqs.com/results/approve_president_trump?annotations=true&net=false&uncertainty=true&age=65%2B&race=White&gender=Male

That surprised me. I don't put full stock in it, although the sample size was more than sufficient

[Va Lefty]

58. Proud to be in the 20%

We are not all racist pricks.

[oberliner]

10. "I would be comfortable in a general election with Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich or Rick Santorum"

Is what he said in 2012.

[Blue_true]

13. Now Bill, once the republic is saved, can you avoid going back to being a dick? nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. I see the tu quoque fallacy writ large in this thread.

" ... On the other hand it seems fitting and consistent with the American story that women, minorities and young people now step up to save the republic..."

If the author was anonymous that would be embraced as a noble sentiment.

[oberliner]

15. The author not being anonymous is what makes the hypocrisy so obvious and insulting

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Do you believe people can change ?

Let me ask you a question. Have you ever voted for a Republican in your life ?

[oberliner]

23. I do believe people can change, but Kristol is still a conservative Republican

And identifies as such.

In fact he just wrote an article for the Weekly Standard (the right-wing conservative publication he works for) explicitly expounding on that point (the title of the article is "Still a Republican" ).

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Edmund Burke was a conservative as was Alexander Hamilton

The latter predicted America might face a Trump at some point in its history:


"The truth unquestionably is, that the only path to a subversion of the republican system of the Country is, by flattering the prejudices of the people, and exciting their jealousies and apprehensions, to throw affairs into confusion, and bring on civil commotion. Tired at length of anarchy, or want of government, they may take shelter in the arms of monarchy for repose and security.

Those then, who resist a confirmation of public order, are the true Artificers of monarchy—not that this is the intention of the generality of them. Yet it would not be difficult to lay the finger upon some of their party who may justly be suspected. When a man unprincipled in private life desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, possessed of considerable talents, having the advantage of military habits—despotic in his ordinary demeanour—known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty—when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity—to join in the cry of danger to liberty—to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion—to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day—It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may “ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.”

Trump is neither conservative nor liberal. He's a norm busting, rule of law scoffing, prevaricating incipient authoritarian.

[oberliner]

31. Everything that we despised about George W Bush is embodied by Bill Kristol

and the positions he holds currently.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. When I see him on MSNBC

When I see him on MSNBC he is criticizing Trump for a lack of civility, demonizing the opposition (us), and showing contempt for the rule of law.

[oberliner]

38. Yes, he thinks Republicans should be polite like Bush or Rubio

And he has the John Bolton view of Russia.

He is a conservative Republican neocon. He dislikes Trump in the same way that the Bush family dislikes Trump (with the difference being that he loves to be on television so he can talk about it).

He also continues to support all the things the Bush family were (and continue to be) about. Every neocon position that DU stands in opposition to, he supports.

[stevenleser]

18. I'll never understand why you and others find it so terrible when Conservatives decide we are right

about things.

I'm interested to hear any arguments in favor of why we should find it terrible.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. It makes no sense at all.

Ari Melber seems to like him and think he's sincere. When he has Bill Kristol and a rapper on the same panel the merging of cultures make for great tv.

[oberliner]

24. Kirstol is a conservative Republican - he has not changed his RW positions

He is upset with old white people supporting Trump and would prefer that the same old white people would support someone like Jed Bush or Marco Rubio instead.

What is positive about that?

(Recall one of his major complaints about Trump during the R primary was that he was secretly a Democrat and wasn't a real conservative)

[stevenleser]

26. Supporting women and minorities to take the lead in politics is a massive change in his positions...

... particularly since it is very obvious to him and anyone who has done any kind of polling the kind of policies that women and minorities support.

[oberliner]

33. He has always said that Republicans needed to appeal more to women and minorities

He thinks that women and minorities would come to support his conservative, neocon views if only the messaging was better.

(He has been saying that at least from the George W Bush days)

[NewJeffCT]

49. George W Bush got a much bigger amount of the Hispanic vote

than subsequent Republican presidents - 35% in 2000 an 44% in 2004 - because they did do outreach to Hispanic communities and Bush appointed Hispanics to some key positions - Alberto Gonzalez at AG for one

[JI7]

62. he also won the muslim vote and he was pro immigration

[NewJeffCT]

54. Jeb Bush would be far more preferable than Trump

Bush wouldn't be in the White House destroying every norm and standard that's been around in our country for decades and possibly centuries like Trump. He wouldn't be tearing down and hollowing out the State Department and he wouldn't be leaving hundreds of key positions unfilled (hello ambassador to Korea?) And, he certainly would not be out on the world stage acting like Putin's cuckold.

Yes, Bush would have been bad, but he would have been doing it within the confines of our 240 year old system.

The 2016 was so close that I think every vote counts - so, if Bill Kristol wants to cast a vote for Democrats in Virginia like Tim Kaine in order to stop Trump's agenda, I welcome his vote.

Kristol has a group of anti-Trump Republicans running ads urging Congress to protect the Mueller investigation. Have we seen anything similar from MoveOn.org or other organizations on the left?

[Kingofalldems]

21. Do you go after anyone who opposes Trump, oberliner?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. To use a colloquialism I suspect there's some butthurt with Trump demolishing his boy, Jeb

But the easy thing for Kristol to do would be to just lay low or allow himself to be co-opted like so many Republicans.

[oberliner]

36. Bill Kristol does not know the meaning of "lay low"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. Look at how Trump co-opted the National Review.

Except for a handful of holdouts like the aforementioned David French they have all allowed themselves to be co-opted. Why didn't Kristol allow himself to be co-opted ?

[oberliner]

42. Bill Kristol remains a self-avowed neocon

He wants to replace Trump with someone like Bush.

One important fact that seems to sometimes get lost in this era of the awfulness of Trump is the fact that the other Republican candidates were also awful. And that George W Bush was immensely awful.

If Bill Kristol wants to say that he has finally seen the light and will now be joining the Democratic Party, then I'd be all for it. Until then, I will oppose him as much as I would oppose Jeb Bush, whom Kristol would be shilling for on TV every day if he had won.

[oberliner]

25. Pretty much everyone who writes for the Weekly Standard is someone I oppose

Kristol moreso than others because in addition to supporting conservative policies and politicians, he is a pompous windbag.

He tried to recruit David French as an alternative candidate to Trump (and promoted this idea to the hilt).

[JI7]

64. You Had no Problem Pushing Bullshit from Hannity/Leeann Tweeden and other right wingers

when it came to attacks on Democrats.

[stevenleser]

19. Yep, see my #18. I will always find it a good thing when Conservatives renounce their views and

support Democratic/Liberal/Progressive ideas.

[oberliner]

27. He has renounced none of his conservative views

And has embraced no progressive ideas.

He makes fun of progressives regularly.

"self-righteous progressive hectoring" is the phrase he uses on twitter.

[stevenleser]

28. See my #26 above. nt

[oberliner]

34. Thanks - posted a response to it above

[marylandblue]

30. Bill Kristol is Jewish. His white male membership card was revoked in 2016.

Only a handful of Jewish Trump supporters got to keep theirs, and their memberships will be revoked as soon as they outlive their usefulness.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. He couldn't have...

He couldn't have liked when the white nationalist marchers in Charlottesville shouted "the Jews will not replace us" and Trump validated them.

[marylandblue]

40. Even Ivanka may have quietly suggested that it was one of his less perfect ideas.

[JI7]

63. true, Jewish White Men of all ages are mostly opposed to Trump

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

41. Holy Cow...

... has the bull finally left Bill Kristol?

[NewJeffCT]

52. Kristol has been against Trump since before the 2016 elections, I believe

His group of anti-Trump Republicans has been running ads on Fox and elsewhere urging Congress to protect Robert Mueller.

[JCMach1]

56. Bill Kristol and co. reaped what they sowed with Trump

At the same time... However, in this war we are all in the same foxhole. Know your allies and know your enemies. May not be a friend, but he is an Ally now.

[tblue37]

46. Of course BK is one of the guys that brought the matches and tinder for the

fire they now fear, and he, along with other conservatives, did everything he could to turn the yahoo base against the women, minorities, and young people they now desperately hope can save the country.

[KentuckyWoman]

51. Bill you've been trying to sink the US of A all your life.

Your complaint is that the dollars aren't coming your way anymore.

Kiss off.

[DBoon]

57. Some of us remember Kent State

Some of us had to register for the Vietnam draft

Many of us went to Vietnam and did not come back alive

Many of us fought for environmental protections that are now being eliminated.

Many of us supported the right of women and people of color, even if their advances temporarily inconvenienced us, because we knew a just society is a better society for everyone.

Apparently not enough of us were like this.

[Raine]

61. Bill apparently you're hanging out with the wrong group of "white men over 55"

you need to find a better class of "white men over 55"! Don't judge all by the scummy bunch you associate with!

[JHB]

65. Two things, Bill...

1) They don't care what you think, and most don't even know who you are.

2) Nobody, and let me repeat, nobody cares if you are "embarrassed".what you should be I'd ashamed at your role in bringing about the situation you're now so "embarrassed" about.

[KG]

66. piss on Bill Kristol anyway

[SkyDancer]

67. Hard pass on anything Bill Kristol

[UCmeNdc]

69. Bill is right. What happened to White men over 50? It is as if they lost their ability to think for

themselves.They seem all clingy and dependent on Donald Trump. What is up with that?

[Blue_Adept]

71. That's the question, though most are just intent on pissing everywhere instead

[JI7]

72. LBJ Explained It

[empedocles]

70. We need all the help we can get for November - think John Dean