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DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
Tue Aug 21, 2018, 11:34 AM Aug 2018

My prediction: It's not Trump whom Mueller will indict before the election. It's Trump Jr.

The case against Trump himself is pretty weak so far and the legal argument that Trump cannot be indicted at all is very, very strong.

But...

* Trump Jr. went to the Trump Tower after he was told that a russian lawyer was offering him dirt on Hillary Clinton and that this was part of the ongoing efforts of the russian government to help him. (That was after the US intelligence-community had briefed both campaigns that Russia would try to meddle with the election and that the campaigns should report anything suspicious to authorities.) That is attempted collusion and possibly treason.

* Then he crafted a false statement about what happened. That is obstruction of justice.

* Then he lied to Congress about what happened. That is legally equivalent to lying under oath.

* Trump Jr. had Twitter-DM exchanges with Wikileaks, which US intelligence has categorized as a hostile non-state intelligence-service. Though Jr. didn't really respond to the messages, if it can be proven that he used the talking-points and the information and the hacked password Wikileaks gave him, then this is treason.





Trump will explode.

He will freak out like he has never freaked out before.

Crazy? You haven't seen crazy.

5 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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My prediction: It's not Trump whom Mueller will indict before the election. It's Trump Jr. (Original Post) DetlefK Aug 2018 OP
Maybe but unless involved, that would hand a victimization / persecution complex narrative to Trump. FreepFryer Aug 2018 #1
We don't really know how strong or weak Mueller's case against Trump is. Mueller doesn't leak, but tblue37 Aug 2018 #2
Trump Jr. is still low-hanging fruit... Pachamama Aug 2018 #3
The Case against Trump ScratchCat Aug 2018 #4
FWIW, Daddy Trump crafted the false statement on Air Force 1 emulatorloo Aug 2018 #5

FreepFryer

(7,077 posts)
1. Maybe but unless involved, that would hand a victimization / persecution complex narrative to Trump.
Tue Aug 21, 2018, 11:45 AM
Aug 2018

Trump Sr would have to be implicated, unindicted but named as a c-conspirator, etc. or it would have a troubling optic of retributive indictment, legitimizing the false equivalencies that help to enable Trump's own retributive acts.

Such a tactic would probably drive Trump to fire Mueller... perhaps one endgame scenario - but I dont think that's Mueller's preferred route.

tblue37

(65,395 posts)
2. We don't really know how strong or weak Mueller's case against Trump is. Mueller doesn't leak, but
Tue Aug 21, 2018, 11:45 AM
Aug 2018

he has a lot more information and evidence about Trump's case than we do.

Pachamama

(16,887 posts)
3. Trump Jr. is still low-hanging fruit...
Tue Aug 21, 2018, 11:48 AM
Aug 2018

Mueller is working his way up the food chain....

I completely agree with what you wrote Detlef....

It is going to get ugly - and Trump is not only going to lose it, he will make himself even easier to eventually be had and his guilt will be there for all to see.....

ScratchCat

(1,990 posts)
4. The Case against Trump
Tue Aug 21, 2018, 11:55 AM
Aug 2018

For obstruction of Justice is solid.

It appears that they can prove Jr. called daddy after the meeting in Trump Tower, and further, there appears to be statements from others that Trump was aware of the meeting. This results in Trump being a co-conspirator. He will be named as such in the final report, imo.

Lastly, it is very possible that Cohen is cooperating. If Cohen admits to going to Prague to facilitate payment to the russian hackers, that is game/set/match on Trump's connection. I believe Mueller may even petition Rosenstein to set aside current DOJ policy and actually indict Trump if they have Cohen's testimony on that.

You can be certain Jr. is being indicted for his part in the conspiracy. I don't think Mueller can bring perjury charges for Jr. lying to Congress - I think Congress has to make the recommendation to the DOJ first. Its also a foregone conclusion that Hope Hicks will be charged for lying to Mueller, and I would bet at least two other former WH aides get the perp walk on perjury too.

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