Question about John Dean for people who lived through Watergate

[Tommy_Carcetti]

I was born after Watergate. The only things I know about Watergate are through news articles, documentaries and the history books. So I didn't actually live it as it happened.

John Dean emerged from Watergate as one of its heroes. Since then, he has established himself as an authority on the dangers of unchecked presidential power and abuses of office. These days he does carry the reputation of being a patriot.

However, prior to the Watergate it's undoubtedly true he was a key player in some of Nixon's worst abuses. He was the author of the infamous "Enemies List". And while he turned against Nixon because he logically did not want to end up as the scapegoat, it still bears noting he had his hands dirty up to that point.

My question is, what was the general perception of John Dean pre-Watergate? Was he just a team player who wanted to please his boss so he did what he needed to do to get along? Or was he a key architect of dirty tricks, much like a Karl Rove type?

[beachbum bob]

1. John dean was about protecting his ass. I remember the moment when he

said there were tapes. The Republican sails collapsed. The rest is history

[saidsimplesimon]

2. I agree bob.

John Dean was motivated to come forward because he was concerned about his own exposure to criminal charges.

[WhiteTara]

25. Much like Michael Cohen. nt

[WheelWalker]

4. I thought it was Al Butterfield who first revealed the WH taping system to the investigators.

[beachbum bob]

10. Nope, during an actual watergate hearing. Dean said tapes existed

[meadowlander]

16. I think Dean speculated that there were tapes and Butterfield confirmed it.

Dean said that the way Nixon phrased some of his questions led him to believe that the conversations were being taped but he didn't have specific knowledge that tapes existed.

[Atticus]

22. I believe Dean "suspected" that Nixon had taped him because he kept

making statements in the Oval about what he had done or said or what he had NOT done or said and then asking Dean: "Isn't that right , John?"

Dean felt that POTUS was trying to get him to make admissions on tape.

[DeminPennswoods]

24. Yep, Dean thought there were tapes, but

Butterfield was who confirmed the existence of a WH Oval Office (voice activated) taping system.

[ProfessorGAC]

6. As You And LeftieNanner Said. . .

. . .his initial involvement was CYA. In later years he was pretty remorseful that he got that deep and waited so long to either say no, bail out, or go to Cox.
He thought he could help them weather the storm until it became obvious that everyone was on the hook.

[bobbieinok]

17. Was Dean 1st to state publicly there were tapes? I thought it was someone else, then Dean confirmed

I was taking a leisurely bus round trip through our small town with my toddler son when the driver's radio broadcast the witness stating that tapes existed of everything said in the oval office.

The driver and I were the only adults on the bus. We just stared at each other.

[leftieNanner]

3. He was a very ambitious lawyer

In his book Blind Ambition, he's pretty clear about his desire to rise to the top. He did Erlichman and Haldeman's bidding pretty much all the time until he finally realized he was in deep shit. He actually thought that the President was allowed to do whatever he wanted - until he understood that Nixon was, in fact, a crook.

I saw him speak last month about Watergate and it was fascinating. G. Gordon Liddy was a dangerous asshole.

[tonyt53]

5. There is some strong comparison between he and Cohen, but not Rove.

Dean accepted full responsibility for his actions and cooperated completely on every level of the investigation. He was a rat to those that were guilty, but accepted no responsibility. Note the strong comparison to what trump called him. We are yet to see how much Cohen cooperates when the questions turn to trump.

I had turned 18 in 1971 and was very proud to vote against Nixon in 1972 as the first group of 18 y/o's that got to vote.

[Girard442]

14. Ultimately it's better to do the right thing even for the wrong reason.

Dean did the right thing. His motivations weren't all that pure, but still.

[tonyt53]

29. He seems at peace now.

[Claritie Pixie]

7. I can't answer his question but have an interesting tidbit.

Day before yesterday, MSNBC reported that Lanny Davis (Cohen’s attorney) was seeking advice from John Dean.

[Sneederbunk]

8. He was unknown pre-Watergate.

As were many Watergate figures.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

26. This. Nixon ran a tighter ship than Trump.

There was Nixon, and nobody else. Fewer leaks, too. Until there were many leaks.

[Dave Starsky]

27. Then, as now, few knew who the WH Counsel was...

Or even what he did.

It wasn't until he started testifying in the Watergate hearings that he appeared on anyone's radar screen.

[SWBTATTReg]

9. I recall basically nothing about him other than he was one of many ...

in Nixon's admin., that was a team player. Mitchell was the one I really remember hearing about (and Mitchell's wife)...John Dean didn't really become news until afterwards (the Watergate mess)...

[GeorgeGist]

11. Although Dean was originally sentenced to 1-4 years in prison after he pled guilty ...

he ended up serving much less. Dean surrendered to the custody of the US Marshals on September 3, 1974, and was held in Fort Holabird, Maryland until January 8, 1975, when his sentenced was reduced to the time he had already served in custody -- just over 4 months.

http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question116376.html

[hedda_foil]

33. The reduced sentence was fully justified. He almost singlehandedly took Nixon down.

He came across as very credible and had an astoundingly precise memory of events. The rest of the senior staff lied their asses off and were obnoxious to boot.

[lapfog_1]

12. before Nixon (and Watergate)

people in the West Wing were largely unknown by anyone outside the Beltway.

Occasionally there was a flack over someone like McNamara ( SecDef under Kennedy and largely blamed for getting us deep into Vietnam ). But that was cabinet level... not West Wing staff.

I doubt that anyone even knew who John Dean was before Watergate.

I felt at the time that he was simply saving his ass... not some sort of hero. I have ( over a long time ) come to view him more favorably, probably because of his many TV appearances.

I don't think Cohen or McGhan will be viewed so favorably by future generations even if Trump goes down because of them.

[11cents]

13. Dean was WH Counsel (Councel, Council...)

...not a political operative or strategist, so he wasn't a "Karl Rove type," nor seen as such. I'd say he was viewed as a clever functionary, essentially "just following orders," as opposed to someone who really drove the criminality forward.

[Raven]

15. I don't think I considered Dean a villain or a hero. By

the time he came clean, I think I was just relieved to see a light at the end of a terrible tunnel. I think he was probably a decent young guy that got caught up in all of it and I think his wife, Maureen and a good bit to do with knocking some sense into him. I don't think he was anywhere as evil as Rove.

[irisblue]

18. Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell and Dean song from 1973 (Can't get C&P)

https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=haldeman+ehrlichman+mitchell+and+dean+song


Several on youtube. I don't recall him, in detail then. I feel he redeemed himself with his '06 book 'Conservatives Without Conscience' about thee rising authoritarianism of the right. But it was 30 yrs after Watergate.

[zipplewrath]

19. Stupid teaches

You can learn alot after you've been stupid and forced to clean up your own mess. That's pretty much what happened with Dean. He did some really dumb things, then had to figure out how to get out of the mess. I never saw him as a "hero" so much as a guy that "turned states evidence". Since then, a bit like the hacker that ends up working for the bank, he's used his experience to advise others on the various dangers and pitfalls associated with the Presidency and the judicial branch.

[Atticus]

20. I was old enough to collect signatures on a petition urging Nixon's impeachment

and a quarter from each signer to pay for forwarding it to Congress via Western Union, i.e., a lengthy telegram!

My impression of Dean was that he was someone who gradually "got in over his head". When he eventually pulled back far enough to see clearly what he had become a part of AND realized he was being set up to take the blame, he blew the lid off cesspool that Nixon's White House had become. But, to put that impression in perspective, I also recall being certain that Nixon would be the worst aberration to occupy the Oval Office in my lifetime. My naivete is embarrassing.

[Hortensis]

21. An ambitious, talented libertarian-leaning conservative

young man (early 30s in WH) who rose with Nixon, went to the White House, was part of it, stopped being part of it, made a deal, went to prison, and moved on.

Dean's no Karl Rove, the kind of possible/probable sociopath he's written about. Notably, he's also no bigoted social conservative or authoritarian, as Kavanaugh almost certainly is, and believes in at least somewhat progressive government.

The informed writings and warnings of a self-aware moderate conservative who's been inside the power circles of "conservatives without conscience," people like Rove, are extremely valuable reading. He left the Republican Party a long time ago because of what it was turning into.

Btw, regarding that enemies list, maybe compare the tone of the information typically provided for each name with Kavanaugh's list of questions he thought Bill Clinton should be asked. They're apples and oranges, of course, but nevertheless illustrative of two very different kinds of people anyway.

Enemies list compiled by Dean, post adjustments by others
http://www.enemieslist.info/list1.php

Kavanugh's memo
https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/politics/read-the-memo-from-brett-kavanaugh-to-judge-starr/2322/?tid=a_inl_manual&tidloc=19

[Hamlette]

23. What Dean said about the tapes:

“I don’t know if a tape exists, but if it does exist, and if it has not been tampered with, and if it is a complete transcript of the conversation that took place in the President’s office, I think this Committee should have that tape because it would corroborate many of the things this Committee has asked me.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/how-john-deans-demand-for-a-tape-started-the-chain_us_593986bfe4b014ae8c69de74

I think it was seen as more like Comey's statement "Lordy, I hope there are tapes."

[DeminPennswoods]

28. I just remember Dean as WH counsel

and occasionally being refered to or quoted in news reports of the era. Dean was very young, only 30, iirc and probably ambitious. Nixon won big in '68 and '72 so he must have seemed like a good horse to hitch your wagon to.

[leftyladyfrommo]

30. I just remember his wife.

She looked like a Revlon model. She was very blonde and pulled her hair back into a very chic chignon. She was was always impeccably dressed.

And she was always there front and center. Day after day.

Everyone knew John Dean wasn't a saint but he played such a vital role that everyone was glued to the tv listening to his testimony.
He was young and very good looking and smart and ambitious and he screwed up.

[hedda_foil]

31. Nobody had heard of him. He stayed out of the news, unlike Haldeman, Ehrlichman and Mitchell.

Mitchell especially.

[eleny]

32. I doubt most people knew who he was until he spilled the beans at the hearing

And then he became an immediate hero who spent time in jail for his sins. His past became obscured if anybody bothered to learn about it.