By Double-Digit Margin, Poll Shows Sanders Mopping the Floor With Trump in Latest 2020 Matchup

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

Polling results released Wednesday by Politico/Morning Consult show that Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), who is widely speculated to make another run for the Oval Office in 2020, would beat President Donald Trump by double digits.

To read more:

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/08/22/double-digit-margin-poll-shows-sanders-mopping-floor-trump-latest-2020-matchup?cd-origin=rss&utm_term=By%20Double-


Every such poll is merely a snapshot in time, but enough snapshots might indicate more.

[BlueStater]

1. Sanders will not be the nominee for the Democratic Party.

And neither, I hope, will Trump be for the pukes.

[guillaumeb]

2. If Trump remains unindicted and unimpeached,

I expect him to be the nominee for the GOP.

[Wwcd]

34. Geezus! If Pelosi's too "old" to be Speaker of the House...

Puke.

[DesertRat]

119. Welcome to DU, sattvic shanti

Your name sounds familiar.

[DesertRat]

123. But even so, you just can't quit us!

[uppityperson]

126. Aw, be real. She quits du all the time.

[DesertRat]

127. Not voluntarily

[Rhiannon12866]

140. And never for long...

[guillaumeb]

214. A zombie?

[Rhiannon12866]

219. I guess that is what she is

But she's really in a category all of her own because she's returned so many hundreds - maybe thousands - of times since DU.1! Any mod or MIRT member knows her all too well.

[TexasTowelie]

121. It must come from the card catalogue.

[DesertRat]

122. Yes

[NurseJackie]

170. The library is closed!

[George II]

180. Fell victim to the Dewey Decimal System.

[uppityperson]

125. Transfer it to a container you can use for pouring and set it on a warm--but not hot--place on or near

the stovetop.

[leftofcool]

3. Whatever. He will not be the nominee.

[NCTraveler]

4. Biden it is.

He is a Democrat and the same poll shows him with the same lead. 11 other Democrats bested Trump in the poll.

[oberliner]

48. What are you talking about?

Where did you get "11 other Democrats bested Trump in the poll" from?

It was only Biden, Sanders, and Warren.

[NCTraveler]

150. Simply putting out my own common dreams style opinion.

And you didn’t read the poll.

In fact, the poll shows that a plurality — or, in some cases, a majority — of voters are undecided in Trump matchups against the other eight Democrats tested: Sens. Cory Booker (D-N.J.), Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) and Kamala Harris (D-Calif.); New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo; Montana Gov. Steve Bullock; Rep. John Delaney (D-Md.); former Attorney General Eric Holder and Michael Avenatti, the ubiquitous cable-news presence and attorney for Stephanie Clifford, the adult-film actress whom Trump’s then-attorney, Michael Cohen, admitted paying off to ensure her silence in the closing days of the 2016 presidential campaign.

If this garbage is going to be brought here I’ll do as I please in my response.

What am I talking about? Biden is showing the same lead and he is a Democrat.

[George II]

203. What's really interesting is that trump, against each of the eleven opponents....

....the highest result for trump was against Sanders. Less people preferred trump over each of the other ten potential candidates than they did over Sanders.

[Hekate]

139. If Hillary and Pelosi are "too old" Bernie and Biden are waaaay too old.

Just sayin'

[NCTraveler]

151. I agree. Nt

[honest.abe]

5. LOL.. everyone in that poll mops the floor with Trump.

Sanders is history. He had his chance and didnt make it. Time for new blood as his protege AOC commands.

[icaria]

31. LOL

LOL I got some rebukes when I wrote wrote 'Hillary is history' in a similar reply a few days ago. But it's true we need to move on and it really is time for new blood. So thanks AOC! And Go Beto!

[honest.abe]

46. I saw that thread.

That was a thread about how great Hillary would have been if she won. That comment you made was inappropriate in that context.

[George II]

86. +1,000,000

[Cha]

131. Millions!!

[Cha]

130. Thank YOu, honest abe, for being so Honest!

Exactly what I replied to that poster in the thread.

[NurseJackie]

59. Aw.

[George II]

64. That truly shows a lot of wisdom, or Σοφία as they say on the island of Icaria.

[oberliner]

49. Only 3 out of the 11 Democrats beat Trump in that poll

[honest.abe]

53. Oh dear. Yes i misread that chart.

Doesnt really matter does it? Polling this far out is meaninglessness.

[oberliner]

54. I agree that it's pretty meaningless

Though it is somewhat interesting to see Biden and Sanders beating Trump so handily.

[George II]

88. Your point?

[oberliner]

92. My point was to correct the misstatement that "everyone in that poll mops the floor with Trump"

The poster then noted that they misread the chart.

[LanternWaste]

166. Regardless of how meaningless it is, it's important to correct others.

Regardless of how meaningless it is (as you called it), it's important to correct others.

At least to some people, it is. Righteous, even. But always self-justified.

[oberliner]

168. Only 3 out of the 11 Democrats beat Trump in that poll

But national polls this far out are basically meaningless (though somewhat interesting).

I was kind of surprised to find that only those three were ahead of Trump even though I know it doesn't amount to much at this point.

What was your take?

[brush]

234. Seems the poll results would be different now since the indictments.

[oberliner]

241. I'd like to think so

But I am constantly amazed by how Trump's supporters don't seem to move off him.

[honest.abe]

162. Yeah, that was my mistake. Oberliner was correct in pointing that out.

[pnwmom]

136. Joe Biden did just as well. This is mostly about being a high profile Democrat/progressive.

As the former Democratic opponent to Hillary and the former Democratic VP, there are no figures in the party who are better known than these two -- other than Hillary, who wasn't included on the list.

[Fullduplexxx]

6. Gumby would win if the all the dems voted

[SidDithers]

7. commondreams. LOL...nt

Sid

[Wwcd]

36. Commondreams needs to move on.

Gag

[oberliner]

50. It's a Politico/Morning Consult poll

[George II]

89. .

[Blue_true]

8. You ignored the fact the Biden had the same gap over Trump.

Post like the one presented would be taken more seriously if key information doesn't keep getting left out.

[guillaumeb]

16. Anyone reading the post can see that.

One hopes that people responding do read the entire article.

[Blue_true]

17. Then why not put it in the headline that you seemed to have slanted? nt

[guillaumeb]

19. I posted the actual headline.

And copyright issues do not allow for posting the entire article.

Again, one hopes that people responding will have read the article. If your only criticism is the title's wording, your argument is with the source.

[Blue_true]

24. Ok, fair enough.

But, your OP is not obligated to use the article headline. Seems there was a reason for using it. Several people, including me read the poll and saw the glaring omission.

[George II]

90. This isn't LBN, you can use any subject line that you want, especially if it's truthful.

[guillaumeb]

212. And I generally use the title of the article. eom

[NCTraveler]

153. Why would someone read such frivolity?

It’s Enquirer like trash.

[guillaumeb]

213. And did you read it? eom

[oberliner]

51. Sanders and Biden were the two strongest by far

[OhioBlue]

77. name recognition.

[George II]

91. The BIG difference is that Joseph Biden has been a Democrat since his 20s.

[Gothmog]

9. Ballot access laws will keep both of these candidates off the ballot in key states

Neither trump nor sanders will be on the ballot in some key states unless they file their tax returns

[former9thward]

13. Those laws will be ruled unconstitutional.

Even Jerry Brown vetoed that law in CA because it was unconstitutional. The laws can't be challenged in court until someone who has not filed returns is denied ballot access. But once they do they will be gone. States can't change the provisions of the U.S. Constitution.

[Gothmog]

14. So sanders strategy will be to join trump in lawsuits challenging these laws?

That will be amusing

It is not clear that these laws are unconstitutional according to the election law blogs.

[former9thward]

66. I'll take the Constitution over "election law blogs"

As Jerry Brown said, if this were allowed then it would be medical records and a never ending list of items to get on the ballot.

[Gothmog]

115. Are you a lawyer?

I volunteer a great deal of time on voter protection issues and have read up on this issue. These laws will survive a challenge by trump and it would be sad if sanders joins trump in a challenge. The states that have these laws are states that trump has no chance of winning but sanders needs to be competitive in these blue states.

I really doubt that sanders will release his returns. Sanders will have no chance to be the nominee if he is not on the ballot in thest blue states

[former9thward]

159. Yes, I am.

I do criminal law, not election law, but I know how to read the Constitution. If the issue comes up we will see who is right. Have a good day!

[Gothmog]

164. Candidates who won't disclose taxes shouldn't be on the ballot

Prof. Tribe disagrees with your analysis https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/14/opinions/state-laws-requiring-tax-return-disclosure-legal-tribe-painter-eisen/index.html

Our federal Constitution allows states to create ballot access requirements that ensure that the ballots for every office, including the office of presidential elector, are comprehensible and informative.

A line must of course be drawn between permissible ballot access laws and impermissible attempts to add qualifications to those specified in the federal Constitution. But our research and analysis lead us to conclude that tax return disclosure laws such as the one proposed in California resemble ballot access laws in structure, impact, and purpose much more closely than they resemble laws imposing additional qualifications for presidential office.

As a result, we believe these laws comport fully with the U.S. Constitution.

Unlike prohibited qualifications, these laws do not impose substantive requirements on candidates beyond those imposed by the Constitution itself; that is, these laws do not limit which candidates may run for office based on any particular information in their tax return. Thus, they do not create an insurmountable barrier in advance to any set of individuals otherwise qualified under Article II of our Constitution. Instead, these laws require federally qualified candidates to comply with a relatively minor process of tax disclosure. That is something competing candidates can and should readily do in order to allow voters to make more informed judgments about those contenders' characters or backgrounds.

Maryland has such a ballot access law in place now. New Jersey and Mass are soon to follow. California will probably adopt such a law after Brown is no longer in office.

I trust Prof. Tribe on this.

As a practical matter, trump may not be challenging these laws because if the Democrats retake the House, they will be getting his ta returns as one of the first items of business. House Democrats have done three or four votes to put GOP members on record as not wanting to get trump's tax returns and this may still be an issue in the midterms. This could mean that sanders would be the only candidate suing to invalidate these laws. That will not be a great position to take with Democratic voters

[former9thward]

167. John Kerry refused to release his wife's tax return.

That is where all the family wealth is at. Should he have not been allowed on the 2004 ballot? BTW the Democrats taking the House will not get any tax returns. They have no power to do that.

[Gothmog]

184. House Dem forces GOP to take recorded vote on Trump tax returns

Do you tire of being wrong? The House Democrats forced House Republicans to make votes on this issue so that we can use these votes http://thehill.com/policy/finance/321476-house-dem-fails-to-force-release-of-trump-tax-returns

A House Democratic lawmaker attempted Monday to force a House floor vote on a resolution to request President Trump’s tax returns, but the effort failed on a party line vote, 229-185, with two Republicans voting "present."

The move was the latest in a series of Democratic efforts to push Congress to request Trump’s tax returns, and Democrats demanded a roll call vote to force Republicans to go on the record.

The two Republicans who voted present were Reps. Walter Jones (N.C.) and Mark Sanford (S.C.). Sanford is one of the Republican lawmakers who has in the past called for Trump to release his returns.

After the vote, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) fired at the GOP.

If the House had no power to request or require these records, then the GOP would not have been forced to go on record as voting to protect trump. If the Democrats take the House, trumps tax returns will be the subject of subpoenas.

Again, why is sanders scared of releasing his tax returns? We elected one person without the full release of tax returns and that was a mistake. It would be sad for sanders to join trump in challenging these ballot access laws but I guess that both candidates have something to hide.

[karynnj]

197. Teresa released the top two pages of her return

What she did not release was all the detail, which included a lot of Heinz family information. However, there was a huge amount of information on Teresa's assets on the Senate disclosure that they filed.

It also is strange to say John Kerry, who released HIS taxes since the mid 1980s, REFUSED to release his wife''s tax return. I assume that that was Teresa's decision to make.

[former9thward]

200. The wealth of John Kerry lies with Teresa and you know it.

That is why Democrats wanted McCain to release his wife's returns. Did you forget that? Would you be happy if Trump only released two pages?

[Gothmog]

206. The fact that sander supporters know that sanders will not release his tax returns is amusing

I personally do not believe that sanders will run. He has burned too many bridges inside the party and has no chance of getting the nomination. If sanders refuses to release tax returns, then there is no way that he will get the nomination with or without ballot access laws.

It would be be sad to see sanders join trump in a lawsuit to challenge these laws. Luckily, if Democrats take control of the House, trump's tax returns will be released quickly

[Gothmog]

257. The House will get Trump's tax returns

Link to tweet

[Me.]

172. I Too Trust HimAnd Consider Him An Expert

and frankly, given the current example in the WH, I find I cannot trust any candidate who refuses to show his tax returns as I will wonder what the candidate is hiding.

[Gothmog]

186. I am curious as to why sanders supporters are scared of sanders releasing tax returns

It was a horrible mistake to elect one person without releasing their tax returns. Why repeat this.

It would be sad to see sanders join trump in lawsuits challenging these ballot access laws

[Me.]

196. You Would Think They'd Take To Heart The Comrade Trump Example

this all flies in the face of everything the Senator purports to be about. And the question is...what's he afraid of?

[George II]

177. The Constitution governs voter access, not candidate access. Even so...

...states can control voter access too - some do so via voter ID laws.

[former9thward]

199. Mine has different language than yours.

[George II]

202. What does yours say specifically about candidates?

[former9thward]

208. Article II, Section 1 is online.

[George II]

209. Apparently the Constitution leaves it up to the individual states the manner of selecting electors.

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

[former9thward]

210. That section is on how Electors are chosen.

Paragraph 3. The candidate qualifications are in paragraph 6.

[George II]

211. And? Still not seeing it.

[Gothmog]

204. LOL-Do you have a different constitution than Prof. Tribe?

I still have an early edition of Tribe on Con law in my home library. I trust Tribe's copy of the Constitution over your copy

[Gothmog]

254. Swalwell Vows Americans Will See Trump's Tax Returns If Democrats Win The House

We will hopefully get to see trump's tax returns if the Democrats take control of the House https://www.politicususa.com/2018/08/26/eric-swalwell-trumps-tax-returns.html

[Gothmog]

258. House Democrats had 11 votes on Trump's tax returns

Link to tweet

[George II]

154. ...

[Gothmog]

205. I am also amused

[ehrnst]

171. Actually Jerry said it "may" be unconstitutional, but that's not the only reason for the veto

He thought it would create a "slippery slope"

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/16/jerry-brown-trump-tax-returns-bill-243799

In any case, it's not really clear:

In light of such precedent, what could possibly be the basis for upholding a state law barring ballot access for presidential candidates who decline to release their tax returns? After all, Article II of the Constitution includes exclusive qualifications for the office of the president: The president must be a natural-born citizen who is at least 35 years old and has resided in the United States for at least 14 years.

The answer lies in another part of Article II—the part that received some important attention in Bush v. Gore, the Supreme Court decision that Democrats love to hate. Famously, the 2000 case between Republican nominee George W. Bush and Democratic nominee Al Gore effectively handed the election to Bush when it ended the Florida recount.

Article II provides that the “state legislature” “may direct” “the manner” for choosing presidential electors. In Bush v. Gore, the Court stated that this Article II power given to state legislatures was “plenary,” meaning that the states have a broad power when it comes to presidential elections. Indeed, the Court wrote that even though state legislators have given each state’s voters the right to vote for presidential electors, at any time a state legislature can “take back the power” to appoint electors. In other words, if the California or Texas state legislature wanted to directly choose the state’s presidential electors in 2020, the state could do so. As Dean Vik Amar notes, the Constitution does not necessarily include a right of Americans to vote for president at all (and American citizens in U.S. territories do not have this right).

https://newrepublic.com/article/147310/can-states-ban-trump-ballot-doesnt-release-tax-returns

[Gothmog]

187. I trust Prof Tribe on this issue

[wasupaloopa]

10. God I hope he doesn't fuck up the 2020 election

I got a hide telling the truth about someone who is not a Democrat so I won’t go into it here.

[Garrett78]

11. All those results tell me is...

...that Trump's hardcore support is around 30%.

At this stage, name recognition dominates. A plurality of people don't know anything about most prospective candidates. And I'm sure some who gave an opinion don't actually know anything about those they gave an opinion about.

[Stallion]

12. I'm Voting for the Democrat-not Bernie

[PaulX2]

81. Bernie Is More Democrat Than Many Democrats

In my book.

Sorry if I offend anyone.

He has been fighting for the little guy his whole career.

So have many others.

It's all good.

We just need to exterminate the Republican Party once and for all. Put them all in prisons where they belong.

[CentralMass]

110. I think so as well.

[Cha]

132. No, BS is the one who denigrates the Democratic Party..

.. calling it the party of the "1% and Not working people"..

Democrats work together as a TEAM.. they don't try to tear down our Party. They don't sow division.. they build each other up so we will win in 2018.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

134. Plus 1. Yep. He is.

[George II]

155. He's been TALKING about fighting for the little guy his whole career.

[Cha]

133. Exactly, Stallion! Our Democrats work together to help each other out.. Not

try to divide by calling our Party "the party of the 1% and Not working people".

I would never vote for hm.

[Initech]

15. No, no, no, no. Do not want. We cannot go through this again.

I love Bernie but I think he needs to move on. I'd rather him be in the Senate.

[SkyDancer]

18. Good!

Bernie will be kicking some Trump ass in 2020 with policy that helps people!
I for one look forward to it!

[ismnotwasm]

20. No he won't

Although I’ll continue to appreciate his efforts in the senate.

[SkyDancer]

22. According to who?

You and your crystal ball?

Nah, sorry but yes he will.

[Garrett78]

25. There's almost no chance he'll be the nominee.

[SkyDancer]

26. Because some person on a internet forum says so?

Polling says otherwise but hey!

[Garrett78]

27. Polling doesn't say anything about who the 2020 nominee will be. But 2016 made it clear...

...that he doesn't have enough support among our party's base. The 2016 race was essentially over by the 2nd week of March.

[SkyDancer]

32. That was ages ago

when Bernie had less than 2% name recognition.

Bernie is literally the most popular active politician in America. Some won't like I say that but the reality is, Bernie enjoys massive support among Democrats. Only 3% say "nope".

You and I aren't going to agree so let's not go down a rabbit hole and kick back and watch what happens in the coming 18 months. I for one look forward to it.

[ismnotwasm]

39. Ah yes

This poll. Of course, if it makes you feel better, by all means use this poll. Bernie is indeed, very popular.
However, Bernie Sanders will never be the nominee, as unfortunate as many feel that to be. There are crucial Democratic demographics he will never, ever win.

[Garrett78]

44. First of all...

More like and less like is ambiguous. Secondly, that data says *nothing* about who the 2020 nominee will be. Third, Sanders had a lot of name recognition by the time the primaries got underway. And he had the advantage of being the only alternative to a polarizing Clinton, which won't be the case in 2020. There being fewer caucuses will also hurt Sanders. And, once again, he'll be lacking in endorsements and party support.

It's far more likely that Harris or Booker or Murphy or a governor will claim the nomination. Biden, Warren and others also have a better chance than Sanders. Hell, there are mayors who have a better chance. My guess is it'll be Harris. I'd bet money it won't be Sanders.

[George II]

93. Check your facts. Among who is Sanders "the most popular active politician in America"?

So now I'm off to have a snack, a cheese sandwich, which if I have too many might put me in a pinebox.

[PoliticAverse]

29. "Nah, sorry but yes he will." - "According to who? You and your crystal ball?" n/t

[SkyDancer]

33. According to polling.

Which says the naysayers are just 3% among our party.

Have a nice evening.

[PoliticAverse]

38. Which poll(s) are you referring to?...

The Harvard poll has Biden in the lead.

https://yournewswire.com/harvard-poll-joe-biden-democratic-2020-race/

[NurseJackie]

43. ...

[brush]

73. The party is not going through all that divisive crap again.

He's an independent. Let him run as one.

[R B Garr]

105. Bingo! He states his preference is Independent, so he

should stick with that.

I’m proud to be a Democrat and don’t appreciate the unnecessary negativity.

[shanny]

109. Disingenuous much?

As if Bernie running as an Independent wouldn't engender apoplectic caterwauling about 3rd-party spoilers. At the very least.

[brush]

160. We'll take it. Who wants a candidate who openly doesn't want to be a Democrat?

There are several potential candidates who are proud to be a Democrat.

[shanny]

188. Who's "we?" Speaking for the party now?

And all of its members who have had so many kind words about Ralph Nader and Jill Stein?

[brush]

189. WTH are you talking about? Not many have kind words for Nader or Stein.

[shanny]

191. I guess I'm just wondering why any Democrat would want Bernie to run as an Indpendent.

[brush]

193. I just don't want him to try to use the party again to run. He says he's...

an independent, then if he to wants run, run as what he is.

We'll be fine.

[shanny]

194. .....

[brush]

195. Laugh if you want. He had his chance as a Dem. He lost then left the party...

We have other, younger, attractive, actual Democratic candidates who are proud to be Democrats and don't come with all that divisive baggage from 2016.

I just don't get those who are ok with someone not wanting to be a Democrat but wants to use the party's national apparatus to get himself elected.

We'll be fine without all that.

[shanny]

221. I am lmao at the very idea

that anyone who had a problem with Nader or Stein will be "fine" with Bernie running as an independent.

[brush]

226. Why run at all? He'll be 80.

[shanny]

235. why ask me?

[SkyDancer]

141. Advocating for a split in the party

is not a wise choice

[brush]

161. Back up. Who is the one who doesn't want to be a Democrat?

All the divisiveness is starting all over again. We will have several candidates who are proud to be Democrats.

[guillaumeb]

21. Many of us will be.

But, as Sanders said, 2018 comes first.

[SkyDancer]

23. Yup and come November, it begins!

[NurseJackie]

45. Ha!

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

28. After all of this...I regret voting for Sanders in the primary. Loved him then, but,

I didnt know his ugly side. I wouldnt make that mistake again unfortunately. But Im just one vote. We had our chance, and that time frame and the plusses and minuses were all in line for free college for kids and healthcare...thats gone after the 1 trillion dollar tax cut.

[NurseJackie]

47. Many people share your feelings.

[Blue_true]

83. You owned up to it.

I got political flyers in my mail today from an Our Revolution candidate for a Florida State Senate. She was carrying out a two fisted attack on her primary opponent, her fliers had pictures of Hillary, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and Bernie, with outright lies that the nomination was stolen from Bernie and that he would have won the Presidency. She outright implied that her opponent, a female also and a medical doctor was corrupt because every democratic organization of note in the state, including unions were supporting and contributing money to the doctor (who simply is the better candidate). The whole thing was disgusting, I thought also very bad timing now that we have sworn admissions that Trump colluded and lied to prevent public disclosures before the election.

It turns out that I had already voted. I cast my vote for the doctor and when I saw the campaign fliers, I was over the moon that I did. Our Revolution is not progressive people's friend.

[CentralMass]

112. I'm very glad I joined the other 13.2 million who voted for him and I would do it again.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

113. Right on. It's the beauty of America, and having a choice in your vote.

Glad you voted. Like I say...He got my vote once when the planets were in alignment for him to be successful. I think it'd be a wasted vote were I to do it again.

[CentralMass]

117. I attended the huge rally in Portland and met some very nice people there.

Bernie won our closed primary by 14 points. Hillary beat trump by about 10.5 in the general. I feel very good about both votes.

[Hekate]

30. Bernie isn't going to get another bite of the Democratic Party apple, fellas...

Now, is the poll in question studying "any Dem whatsoever" versus Trump? That would be much more indicative of national sentiment.

[honest.abe]

35. Bernie's biggest problem is he doesnt connect with AA voters.

He simply doesnt get it and I suspect never will.

[LisaL]

40. I would think the biggest issue is that he isn't even a democrat.

[honest.abe]

41. Oh yeah.. that too.

Thanks for the reminder.

[Hekate]

138. Biggest problem is he is not a Dem at all, and is snotty to the Dem Party. So that's that. nt

[Garrett78]

146. And that's why we knew early on in 2016 that Clinton had the nomination wrapped up.

People can like Sanders without wanting him to be president. Being popular doesn't equate to being nominated. And when we're nearly 18 months away from the first 2020 primary, hypothetical head-to-head matchup polls are worthless.

[tymorial]

37. They said the same thing 2 years ago. He wasnt the nominee then and he wont be in 2020

I will be voting for a Democrat

[NurseJackie]

42. So?

[workinclasszero]

52. I'm voting for the Democratic Party candidate

Whoever he or she may be, like always.

[brokephibroke]

129. Same with me

Let's take back the House first and the let the robust conversation begin.

[Bleacher Creature]

178. Same here.

And becoming a Democrat solely to run for President doesn't count.

[phleshdef]

55. Biden leads just as strongly and is probably our best bet at the moment.

That only works if Joe still feels like he has the energy for it with his age and all. I imagine he is still a firecracker but you don't really know what life will be like in 2020. But Biden is still a whole lot healthier than Trump and if thats still the case in 2020 and he runs, that is where my vote is going.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

56. Who cares? 2018 comes two years earlier, like less than 3 months! . . . nt

[dameatball]

57. With all that is going on right now I don't think polls mean much.

Eh, maybe a little, but subject to change.]

[George II]

58. ....

[George II]

60. Look at the results of the poll:

Biden +12. Sanders +12. And against Biden less chose trump.

Why isn't BIDEN the headliner? Biden is equally "mopping the floor"!!!!

[still_one]

65. Also there are a lot of undecideds in there. This is just a poll of "name recognition". It is a BS

poll seeing no DEMOCRAT has officially announced, it means absolutely nothing.

I recall this same bullshit polls in 2016, and when push came to shove Democrats overwhelming choose their Democratic nominee by a wide margin, which had NOTHING to do with Super Delegate, and effectively it was over after Super Tuesday

[George II]

67. +1,000,000

[Garrett78]

82. See post #11. There's really only 1 telling result in the poll.

[still_one]

103. good points

[progressoid]

169. 44% or 43% Seems pretty simple.

[George II]

173. Yep, pretty simple - 12% margin for each of the top two. Or, if one wants to use your logic....

....since you point out the 44% to 43%, against Sanders MORE people went for trump than for Biden, 32% to 31%.

As a matter of fact, against EVERY other candidate less people preferred trump than against Sanders!

See how that works?

[progressoid]

175. OMG. It's a conspiracy. Why would they put the person with the highest pecentage on top?

I bet if we look behind the curtain, we'll see Morning Consult is in league with Our Revolution.

[George II]

190. Glad you think that.

[still_one]

61. Sanders is NOT going to be the Democratic nominee, and the poll is bullshit. Not only hasn't any

DEMOCRATIC nominee announced yet, the ones named in that horseshit poll are the ones with name recognition.

He has done himself no favors by quickly disassociating himself from being identified with the Democratic party. That using the Democratic party out of convenience to further his political ambitious isn't going to work again

The Democratic party will be nominating a DEMOCRTIC candidate who is proud to be identified with the Democratic party

[George II]

62. Bazinga!

[we can do it]

63. Who cares.

[George II]

69. "I don't care, do U?"

[we can do it]

70. 😂

[Hassin Bin Sober]

68. No surprise. He's the most beloved active politician on the planet.

[George II]

72. No he isn't.

[oberliner]

78. Yes he is

America’s Most and Least Popular Senators

1. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT)
Approve 72%
Disapprove 23%

https://morningconsult.com/2018/04/12/americas-most-and-least-popular-senators/

[George II]

84. If that floats your boat, have at it!

[oberliner]

94. Facts are facts

His high approval rating is an indisputable fact.

[George II]

95. His "high approval rating" is ONLY among Vermont constituents, not 200+ million American voters.

[oberliner]

100. Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in America, poll finds

A new poll about the most popular and unpopular politicians in the US contained a lot of very interesting reading. But the person who was probably the most pleased, was Vermont senator Bernie Sanders who retained his crown as the single most liked elected politician with a national profile.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/bernie-sanders-most-popular-politician-poll-trump-favorability-a7913306.html

[George II]

106. You keep dwelling on this. So, among whom is he the "most popular", and what were the choices?

Inquiring minds need to know.

By the way, as the most "popular" politician he never received more than 208,000 votes in any election - Chuck Schumer got 25 times that same year.

"Most popular"?

[progressoid]

181. Here ya go:

Summary Of Very Favorable/Favorable

Bernie Sanders 1220
54%
Mike Pence 991
44%
Hillary Clinton 949
42%
Donald Trump 926
41%
Elizabeth Warren 843
37%
Paul Ryan 758
33%
Nancy Pelosi 704
31%
Rex Tillerson 650
29%
Jeff Sessions 634
28%
Chuck Schumer 630
28%
Mitch McConnell 441
19%
Stephen Bannon 377
17%

Summary Of Very Unfavorable/Unfavorable

Donald Trump 1251
55%
Hillary Clinton 1199
53%
Mitch McConnell 1108
49%
Paul Ryan 1078
47%
Nancy Pelosi 1077
47%
Stephen Bannon 1029
45%
Mike Pence 951
42%
Jeff Sessions 897
39%
Bernie Sanders 808
36%
Chuck Schumer 766
34%
Elizabeth Warren 752
33%
Rex Tillerson 624
27%

http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/HHP-August-Wave_Topline-Memo_Total-Only_Registered-Voters.pdf

[George II]

182. Where's Barack Obama? Where's Kamala Harris? Where's Corey Booker? Where's....

....Andrew Cuomo? Where's Kirsten Gilibrand? Where's Chris Murphy? Need I go on?

[oberliner]

243. Is your assertion that Sanders isn't actually popular and these polls are all flawed?

Or it is just that you don't like him?

[George II]

245. That has nothing to do with this, why have you made that assumption?

You responded to my post, but didn't address it. Why were all the people I mentioned not included in the poll or, if you don't know, maybe we should stop referencing these polls? The poll judges "the most popular", etc. etc. based on a group of a dozen or so and extrapolating it over a population of politicians of thousands. Why is that?

I'm a "politician" (yes, run for office five times in my town). I gave some of my neighbors a list of others, including me, and asked who they liked the best (no, I didn't use the word "popular" )

All five neighbors said I was. So, according to my poll I'm the "most popular politician" in the country.

Don't you agree?

[oberliner]

247. I made no assumption - I asked a question

(Two questions, actually)

With respect to the names you mentioned, there are other polls that include those names. I am not sure why this poll did not.

I note that we are having similar conversations on two different subthreads here.

If you want to just give me the essence of the point you are trying to make, I would appreciate it.

My point is that polls generally seem to suggest that Bernie is very popular among Democrats.

[George II]

249. You know what my point is, we've discussed it more than once.

[oberliner]

250. Can you boil it down to one pithy sentence?

I don't recall what it was.

[George II]

252. Sorry. As they say, "been there, done that."

[oberliner]

253. OK I appreciate the thoughtful exchange

And I like the happy waving emoji.

[oberliner]

242. He tends to be at the top of most of these polls

That could certainly change over time as more candidates emerge, like Avenatti perhaps.

[George II]

246. You responded, but didn't address the content of my post.

[oberliner]

248. Please see my response to your other post

Let's continue our discussion there. Or if you'd like to DM me to discuss further off-thread, please feel free to do so.

[Demsrule86]

225. It is a survey with 2000 or so participants. Time will tell. I don't think he can win the

Democratic primary.

[oberliner]

244. I would be surprised if he won the nomination

But not shocked.

[R B Garr]

101. +1, and there are only about 200,000 to 300,000 of the

600,000 population even voting there. Living in California makes that low number hardly matter.

[George II]

107. The last time he was elected was the same year Schumer was elected...with 25X the votes!

Most popular?

[R B Garr]

114. Exactly! Hillary also had to get literally millions more

to vote for her in NY.

Then there’s the fact that both of the most progressive, populous coastal states went big time for the Democrat.

Not the most popular in the actual contests that matter...

[Garrett78]

85. That's misleading. If you follow the link to their methodology, you find this:

In each poll, Americans indicated whether they approve or disapprove of the job performance of their U.S. senators.

Regardless, this really means nothing in terms of 2020. There's no way Sanders will be the nominee. He had many factors in his favor in 2016, yet Clinton had the nomination wrapped up by Super Tuesday. Because he doesn't have enough support among our party's base.

[oberliner]

96. Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in America, poll finds

A new poll about the most popular and unpopular politicians in the US contained a lot of very interesting reading. But the person who was probably the most pleased, was Vermont senator Bernie Sanders who retained his crown as the single most liked elected politician with a national profile.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/bernie-sanders-most-popular-politician-poll-trump-favorability-a7913306.html

[Garrett78]

102. To repeat what I've already said, that has no bearing on 2020.

Numerous Democrats who don't have much name recognition now will have much more name recognition 18 months from now. Sanders will once again be lacking in endorsements and party support in 2020. There will be fewer caucuses in 2020, and Sanders won't be in a 2-person race against a polarizing Hillary Clinton. It is, however, to his advantage that the Iowa caucus and New Hampshire primary kick things off, but I'd still bet money Sanders won't come close to being the nominee.

[George II]

251. Don't bother. I've explained that to people here maybe a dozen times now. So....

....apparently some Senator is more "popular" by a few percent with maybe 300,000 homogeneous constituents than a Senator with a diverse constituency of tens of millions of people. To me that's nothing to be bragging about.

[MrsCoffee]

75. Maybe on the planet

Pluto.

[tonyt53]

76. Boomers are all dead. Most Boomer Democrats despise him. Who votes? Boomers.

[oberliner]

80. What is the source for your claim that "most Boomer Democrats despise him" ?

[oberliner]

97. Huh?

What post of mine are you referencing?

All of my posts on this thread cite or reference specific polls.

[Devil Child]

71. I'd happily vote for him again

[MrsCoffee]

74. Better Believe It!

[liberal N proud]

79. No BS

[kimbutgar]

98. No, he is too old and a has been.

Russia’s got a whole dossier on him. Whatever minor warts he has they would be amplified by the conservative media industrial media complex. And sadly him being of Jewish heritage and this neo nazi movement in young white males....


Disclaimer: I vote for Bernie in the primary in 2016

[SkyDancer]

142. Russia does NOT have a whole dossier on Bernie

Stop it. This is not factual and akin to National Enquirer level stuff.

[R B Garr]

163. It's obvious that the Rules are to deny the Russian

interference, but this is just naive. Stop it, yourself. I’ve heard this mentioned on MSNBC, too. It has been posted here. Listening to the “progressive” back channels only gives the woo.

[jalan48]

99. Great to see!

[MFM008]

104. What would he run as?

He refuses to a dem.
Im voting for DEMOCRATS.

[SkyDancer]

143. He just ran as a Dem

in VT

[brooklynite]

108. If the Presidential Election were held today.....

...people would be very surprised because it's not due to happen for two years, after the Midterms everyone should be focused on THIS year.

[BlueStater]

111. It's beyond ridiculous that anyone is taking him seriously as a candidate.

That goes for Biden and President Dipshit as well.

Yay, let's let the future of the country be shaped by people who will be 74, 78, and 79 by the next election!

[SkyDancer]

144. And yet

Bernie is the choice of the young generation like millennial voters.

It's about policy, not age.

[Hekate]

147. If "it's about policy, not age," why are the highly accomplished female stalwarts all "too old"?

[brush]

237. Exactamundo! Why is Nancy too old but Sanders isn't?

What happened to consistency?

[Doodley]

116. He wins on name recognition.

[Onyrleft]

128. Que the unnecessary infighting.

Hike!

[Cha]

135. That's "cue".

[SkyDancer]

145. I think "queue"

is what they were saying

[pnwmom]

137. I bet Hillary would have done just as well in that poll, but she wasn't included.

It's really just a measure of how well known the potential candidates are.

Biden was the VP and Bernie campaigned all the way to the convention in July, so both of those men are very high profile.

[Petosky Stone]

148. The "polls" were giving HRC a, what, 75% to 99% chance of winning, shortly before the election...

Did we not learn anything from that?

Polls can be twisted however one chooses.

Don't trust them.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

207. That top number was way overrated.

The important numbers were the spreads in the battleground state. And they never look that great.

[octoberlib]

149. Bernie Sanders announced on Chris Hayes that he would

not be running in 2020 and Joe Biden also beat Trump in polls. Until all the candidates for President have been announced, this is meaningless.

[betsuni]

157. When was this? I searched and couldn't find it.

[octoberlib]

165. It was on the Aug. 14th show.

Ali Velshi was subbing for Chris.

Link to tweet

?s=21

[betsuni]

218. Thanks, but there wasn't anything in that interview about him not running in 2020.

Not that I could see. What did he say?

On his last appearance of The Late Show, Colbert asked him if he was willing to put aside all speculation and announce that he was not running in 2020 and he said no.

[octoberlib]

220. Velshi asked him if he was running in

2020 and Bernie said no. Then Velshi said something like “really? Are you serious?” Bernie said no, I’m not running. I’m positive I’m not misremembering because I was going to make an OP on DU about it at the time but got sidetracked. I’m certain it was the 8/14 show because it was Velshi filling in for Hayes.

[betsuni]

222. I only saw the transcript but that was not there.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

236. I understand his fans wanting him but, its time to move on. If we are going to

re-enact history, then HRC should be given her seat as president long before we start re-running effin bernie

[dem4decades]

152. I was hoping to vote for a Democrat.

[kentuck]

156. I don't believe it.

A socialist?

[GoCubsGo]

158. Well, unless we take back Congress in November, none of it will matter.

Until then, I really don't give a shit about the 2020 elections. If the republicans and their Russian puppeteers continue to control the entire government, there will probably never be another fair election again.

This post is just more shit aimed at dividing us. Trashing it.

[MineralMan]

174. Commondreams.org is a lot like common sense or common courtesy.

It's really just a myth and is anything but common.

Bernie Sanders will not be the Democratic nominee in 2020. He has already lost the nomination once, and would lose it again.

He's a good Independent Senator for Vermont. He should stick to what he's good at. He is not a Democrat, despite wearing Democratic clothing in 2016 for awhile.

We need a Democrat as the Democratic nominee.

[brush]

238. Exactly!

[jpljr77]

176. Yeah, because there's nothing like a 79-year old socialist from Vermont to show America...

the Democrats are a big tent party. Sheesh.

Bernie is terrific, maybe even historically so, at driving debate on topics of importance, especially us progressives. But he is a horrible pick to be president.

[Garrett78]

198. And he never will be.

In 2016, the race was over by Super Tuesday, yet people such as Cenk Uygur insisted Sanders would become the nominee. That level of denial and delusion is not healthy.

[LonePirate]

179. Sanders will never be the 2020 Democratic nominee regardless of how much the media wants him to be.

[lagomorph777]

183. Same was true in 2016

[guillaumeb]

216. True. eom

[Power 2 the People]

185. GO Bernie!!

It's gonna be a good field of candidates to oust that Orange F*ck in 2020.

[guillaumeb]

217. One hopes. eom

[MineralMan]

192. Please pay attention. This is not news. This is not relevant.

There are far more pressing things to discuss than who is polling well for the 2020 election. We have a criminal in the White House. There's a mid-term election in just over two months.

Try to focus. Try to stay on top of what actually matters right now.

Thanks.

[guillaumeb]

215. Your opinion is noted.

And rejected.

[disillusioned73]

201. ...

[LiberalFighter]

223. I've stopped reading crap from Commondreams.

[Demsrule86]

224. Sen. Sanders will not be the nominee.

He is not a Democrat.

[Squinch]

227. Whenever Democrats bicker, Sanders is always at the base of it.

[oberliner]

228. Or Gillibrand

Or Pelosi

[Renew Deal]

231. Those two are never the SOURCE of it

People like to argue about them, but they usually aren’t causing drama

[oberliner]

240. I agree that they don't cause drama

Posting about them seems to cause drama though (like posting about Sanders does).

[Squinch]

232. Nope. But nice try.

[oberliner]

239. Try posting a positive thread about Gillibrand

[PubliusEnigma]

229. No, thanks.

[Renew Deal]

230. Democratic voters will struggle to support someone that benefited from the Russian conspiracy

[samnsara]

233. oh dear

[Uncle Joe]

255. Bernie beating Trump has been the "snapshot in time" for a couple of years now,

although the spread seems to have increased some, perhaps this is because increased numbers of Americans have come to view Trump as the fraud that he is.

Thanks for the thread guillaumeb

[guillaumeb]

256. And what Bernie believes is what many with a (D) after their names also believe.

He is one factor in how progressives are changing the dialogue. Witness the increasing support for Medicare for All.