Help me understand pardons.

[cilla4progress]

What happens if trump pardons manafort?

[PoliticAverse]

1. First it depends on what specifically is pardoned....

he could be pardoned for the specific crimes he was convicted of or any crimes he committed during a certain time period.

A pardon recipient can't be prosecuted for any crimes covered by the pardon. If a conviction is pardoned it goes away.

Note the following:

The President can only pardon for federal crimes, any charges brought by states aren't covered by Presidential pardon.

Once a pardon is accepted (a person can apparently reject a pardon) that person loses their right to invoke their 5th amendment privilege to avoid answering questions on the crime.

A person doesn't have to be charged with a crime to be pardoned for that crime.

The President can't pardon for future crimes.

[bluestarone]

2. BUT do i understand correctly that RUMP

could continue to pardon him for future perjuries? Like if he continued to perjure himself with the Grand jury?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. It is theoretically possible but it is extraordinarily unlikely.

[bluestarone]

5. For sure i think it would be extraordinary!

Makes me wonder with RUMPY tho!

[PoliticAverse]

4. As long as the pardon occurs after the perjury occurs, yes.

Note that Trump actually issued a pardon to Scooter Libby for his conviction for perjury before a grand jury
(see: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-issues-pardon-to-scooter-libby-former-chief-of-staff-to-vice-president-cheney/2018/04/13/dfa4039a-3f2d-11e8-8d53-eba0ed2371cc_story.html )

Bad pardons can subject a President to impeachment.

[bluestarone]

6. yep gotta wonder with this CONGRESS!!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. It would become absurd. Even the GOP wouldn't put up with such aberrant behavior.

[cilla4progress]

8. So, how does this work:

Once a pardon is accepted (a person can apparently reject a pardon) that person loses their right to invoke their 5th amendment
privilege to avoid answering questions on the crime.

The person, despite the pardon, can still be required to testify, i.e., against herself and another target? Or implicate himself, and implicate another?

I'm just wondering what the risk of acccepting or granting a pardon is?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. You answered your own question.

There is virtually no downside into accepting a pardon.

[PoliticAverse]

10. The risk to a President on granting a pardon is primarily political.

Political fallout can be losing a future election because people are offended by the pardon (some people think President Gerald Ford lost his election primarily because he pardoned Richard Nixon) or by being impeached for unwise pardons (possibly being considered "obstruction of justice).

As to what the risk of accepting a pardon is we'd have to first ask George Wilson who actually refused a pardon from President Andrew Jackson an act which led to a Supreme Court Case (See: UNITED STATES v. GEORGE WILSON https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/32/150 ).

A person accepting a pardon for a crime (even if not yet charged with that crime) does lose their 5th amendment right
"against self-incrimination" concerning the pardoned crime because they no longer face criminal jeopardy for their crime (if they could face state charges for any admission because their act was illegal at the state and federal level they could still invoke their 5th amendment right as the Presidential pardon wouldn't protect them from any state charges).

Accepting a pardon is largely considered an admission of guilt. An innocent person thus might not want to accept a pardon, especially if they face any civil lawsuits related to what they are accused of.

[cilla4progress]

11. Hmm, not comforting.

All the MSNBC talking heads make it sound like it's risky in itself, not the political fallout.

[cilla4progress]

12. Former US Attorney Glenn Kirschner on Ali Velshi just now

answered this for me.

I'll look for a clip. In meantime, he essentially said that a pardoned Manafort can now be compelled to testify despite risk to himself, since the 5th amendment no longer protects him - the pardon does (time period dependent).

Thereby, Manafort could implicate others, as well as himself on these, and other crimes.

Right?