I think one of the threads Mueller is following is almost completely dark to the media and . . . .

[Stinky The Clown]

. . . . therefore, to us.

I think he is digging into the notion that Trump is a willing Russian asset. If not willing, then at least coerced. In either case he is very much aware for whom he works.

I think his kids are involved directly in this, too. As but one example, who remembers Jared's direct backchannel link to Russia? That wasn't nothing. And yet, no one has mentioned it for a very long time. Another example is Eric's comment that their funding comes mostly from Russia.

Why do we hear nothing?

I think it is because if there are Russian agents at the very highest levels of our government and deeply connected to our country's secrets, the last thing Mueller needs to do is allow even a hint of it to leak out.

I think the worst is yet to come . . . . and have no clue what or when.

[C_U_L8R]

1. There's been a flow of Russian cash

into Trumpco for years. He may very well go down the same way Manafort did... and worse.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

10. His casino lost money while all around him boomed. His was the one Russian oligarchs used. . . . nt

[Earth Bound Misfit]

73. His casinos "lost" money cuz he used them as his personal piggy bank thru...

.... creative financing & accounting.

MC: Your casino loses money. Maybe we can do better.

MG: You think I'm skimming off the top, Mike?

MC: (shaking head no) You're unlucky. (smirks)

[CincyDem]

80. What was Mo Green's next line...

..."Mikey, I'm gonna keep my eye on you".



How'd that work out for you Mo ?

[alterfurz]

13. Follow the rubles...

[Stinky The Clown]

14. I think the cash is a symptom of a much larger issue.

[dchill]

54. Much larger. Russia is engaging in a war against us.

And The Trumps and most of the Republican party know it. And they're NOT on our side.

[elfin]

2. Makes sense. nt

[Basement Beat]

3. Hoping that's the case...

Way too many holes that haven't been filled connected with those sticking points. Probably why Trump parrots out "no Russian collusion" on a daily basis like a trained pet waiting for kudos. It's killing him that he knows nothing at all about what's being pieced together on his potential treasonist downfall.

[marylandblue]

4. Some articles have been written about this

He's been involved in Russia-related financial activity since the 1980s. He may be laundering money by selling property to Russians at inflated prices. Also, the only bank that lends to him is Deutsche Bank, which has been implicated in Russian money laundering. Mueller did request Deutsche Bank financial records last year.

[Stinky The Clown]

15. As I said in a reply above, the money is almost the least of it. A symptom.

The Trump family are not on America's side.

[marylandblue]

47. Putin has kompromat on all of them.

[uponit7771]

44. +1

[jaysunb]

5. I'm betting the Trump sons are compromised and the daddy knows it.

Spoiled adventurous children tend to feel entitled to do as they please and Moscow is known for it's decadence, especially child sex.

[Stinky The Clown]

16. The daughter, too.

And, of course, the Apparent Eunuch, Jared.

[Wellstone ruled]

6. Malcohm Nance

called this a Espionage Investigation from the get go. Have to think,Nance,Brenna,and Clapper as well as Comey are about to step forward with the names and dates if Trump continues his hate message against them,all bets are off and the Agencies will take Trump out.

[Stinky The Clown]

17. I think it is even worse than espionage. Espionage is spying. This is a case of our government . . .

. . . . having been overthrown.

[Wellstone ruled]

23. Sorry to say,

I'am old enough to have watched the McCarthy Hearings in my High School Home Room. Key Law crafted that McCarty,Cohn,and Nixon exploited was passed by Congress in 1948 and the broad language exploited was the Crimes against the USA.


We are seeing the Legitimate Usage by Team Mueller.

So buckle up my friend,we are going to see in my life time the how and why this law was passed. The real true usage.

[Cheviteau]

76. Old Timers Rule

Nice to see someone on here occasionally who can reach back and recall recent history. I, too, remember the McCarthy Hearings. Who would have thought back then that sixty-five years later we would still be at it with Russia?

[Wellstone ruled]

89. Your tag

and reference to Russia has always been there. One of my Child hood pals family came from a part of Prussia which became part of the Old Soviet Union. He had first Cousin's and other Relatives who were some how tied to Regional Politics at that time.

What we forget is this,here in the US we worry about yesterday and most of our World Competitors worry and plan for twenty and thirty years. And this is what my Friend said no matter what happens in the Old USSR,their Governmental Operations would never go away,proof being,the elections of 2016.


Again we are seeing references to a certain US Law with the 1948 tag line.

[certainot]

84. when did putin get control of the talk radio gods? trump studied talk radio in 2014

according to sam nunberg, which MSNBC never asks him about. nunberg told gabriel sherman for nmew york mag 4/3/2016 that he listened to 1000's of hours of talk radio for the trump team - cohen and stone. i'll bet that was to train trump, who is a fountain of dittohead mush. and i'll bet they used that to coordinate with the russian trolling.

all thy had to do was get control of US govt was to get control of the 1500 radio stations that have been kicking democracy's ass for 30 years, since reagan killed the fairness doctrine. the GOP /con think tanks then rove fed limbaugh and coordinated it for the most part but it was around 2008 when limbaugh revolted on the GOP establishment. that was when breitbart started up too, helping feed talk radio vs the MIC drudge. and manafort was mccain's campaign cochair. limbaugh wouldn't help/endorse mccain - a total disaster - until the friday before the convention - and limbaugh got to announce to the country that sincee mccain chose palin he could support mccain. the convention was saved. then some of the GOP blamed the campaign managers - davis /manafort, maybe some blamed limbaugh, the one with actual power to force palin and trigger the 'teabag' (dittohead) 'revolution.

since then limbaugh/talk radio might as well have been working for putin.

that's all they needed to take over the GOP and since dems ignore talk radio and blame the decoy fox for everything we're going into another election incredibly stupidly, with 1500 radio stations still generating maximum buzz and spin in any emergency - like election chaos and power outages that switch everyone from wifi to AM radio

[Wellstone ruled]

90. Very valid point you make.

Just can't remember the last time I listened to a AM radio Station. Had to be back in the 1990 time frame. Once I got a Truck or car with FM,it was glued to Rock and Roll and if someone touched the dial,you were out of here.

Once Red Mcomb's bought out Lady Bird Johnson's Radio empire,we saw the end of Radio Civility.

[spooky3]

7. Agree--and I think his supporters would be much

More likely to change their minds about him on the Russia connection than on the affairs-silence-payoffs.

[Stinky The Clown]

18. One would sure HOPE they would, but those people are crazy.

[spooky3]

22. You could argue that any crime (including the payoffs) that he's shown

clearly to be involved in should be sufficient to change minds.

[NewJeffCT]

25. you're joking right?

This is your typical trump supporter:

[spooky3]

26. Notice that I was making a relative comparison, not an absolute one.

I'm not arguing that the Trump supporters in general will change their minds. My argument stated a different way is that they care nothing about the sex-related matters, even though there are crimes involved, but some may care if there is substantial evidence of crimes relating to conspiracy, obstruction, etc., involving Russia.

And the ironic thing about the sex-related matters, if I'm correct about this, is that Trump paid to keep those quiet because he believed that would help his election chances, but disclosure probably would not have hurt his vote much. Maybe it would have made a difference to the independents who supported him, whom you might not consider Trumpers.

It's all hypothetical, though, so we'll never know.

[drmeow]

49. It depends on how Faux noise reports it

Until US Pravda actually tells something which even remotely approaches the truth, Trumps supporters will hear no evil.

[spooky3]

60. It will be interesting to see if Faux will be able to

Keep Trump from sinking to the Nixon low of 25% approval.

[drmeow]

63. They'll argue that it might be collusion

but evil Hillary was and would have been worse.

Also, they will claim that Hillary did it, too.

[uponit7771]

46. +1, I saw part of the rally where he mentioned Putin was OK and the crowd went dead ass'd silent.

... could've heard a pen drop.

[spooky3]

48. wow! That is a good sign. nt

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

77. The crowd looked slightly LESS enthusiastic this last time

and the cutesy stuff he usually says had to be repeated several times for effect.

[underthematrix]

8. Yes. you're so right. There are Russian agents at the highest levels of

government across the three branches and at state and local levels. Recall one of the conditions of Flynn plea deal was to help with cases at the state and local level.

I think people are still talking about impeachment because they don't know one of the underlying material facts of Mueller's investigation. This material fact is one of the reasons a Special Counsel was appointed. I believe I've guessed what it is but I'm not going to say.

I can say this about this material fact. It precludes impeachment because this material fact suggest Trump's CANDIDACY and subsequent election was a conspiracy to defraud the United States. The only option is indictment and arrest. America is in extreme danger as long as Trump and his admin are in the White House and his co-conspirators are in the House and Senate.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. THIS

[jberryhill]

27. "America is in extreme danger as long as Trump and his admin are in the White House"

The problem with that statement being that Mueller's team does not appear to be operating with any particular haste.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. I was thinking about that very point. I would be shocked if they didn't have ammunition . . . .

. . . . all locked and loaded, and updated as they find more.

[underthematrix]

33. I think the problem is ensuring there's a functioning government after they

arrest everyone. Oh lord I hate to say this and I probably shouldn't but I think the hold up MAY BE President Obama.

[jberryhill]

34. Humor me with an explanation of that one

[underthematrix]

41. Okay. If they annul Trump's e;ection which I think they're likely to do

then that means President Obama is the last duly elected president in a free and fair election. He would have to return. I think President Obama is such a constitutional stickler they would have to make a very convincing argument to get him abandon his very successful post presidency and return. It means his team would have to return. I think he would keep Rosenstein and Wray. I think he would have Dem majorities in both the House and Senate due to arrests and indictments. I love President Obama so mych and don't want him to return but I don't see any alternative. Trump and his criminal network has essentially our Republic.

[jberryhill]

43. That's absurd

The term of the previous president expired on January 20, 2017, as required by the Constitution.

That entire scenario is ridiculous. The US does not operate on "make it up as you go along".

Who is this "they" under the Constitution, who is empowered to "annul" an election?

[underthematrix]

45. The they is the SCOTUS who stopped the

Florida statewide recountr giving the election to Bush 2

[scarytomcat]

50. If this annulment theory is true then Hilary won the election and should take over

I would go for that
and all dumps appointments should also go bye bye
unfortunately there is no procedure for annulment

[underthematrix]

53. Well for HIllary to replace Trump as the legitimate winner

that she is, they would have to nullify the electoral college and let the popular vote stand. This might could work. But I think that would be more difficult.

[herding cats]

65. That's not legal per the Twenty-Second Amendment to the US Constitution.

There's not a legal person in the country who'd ever even consider such an option, and it would never hold up in court. Which isn't in any way Obama's fault.

If you want to lay blame on a US President for that, I suppose your person would be FDR. Definitely not Obama who wasn't even born yet when the amendment was ratified in 1951. Which was also 6 years after FDR's death.

[underthematrix]

91. Well this doesn't flow from the argument I'm making but it

makes sense to raise the 22nd

[Amaryllis]

56. From everything I've heard and read about how long these investigations take, the word from experts

is that he is actually moving very quickly, relatively speaking. It is such a massive and complex web that it has to be unraveled carefully. It seems slow because we recognize the danger and the implications of all the damage/destruction being done by the admin/ GOP.

[Scarsdale]

74. Every time the Mueller

team turns over a rock, another scumbag slithers out. Then they have to investigate THAT particular miscreant. They want to get ALL the crooks, destroy the entire network of traitors. We are so lucky the team is tight-lipped, so the tRump people have to try to guess what they know.

[SergeStorms]

68. The sheer volume of corruption...

not only by Trump and his henchmen/women, but by a fair number of Congressmen as well, leaves no option other than going slowly and thoroughly. Look at how many directions this investigation has gone already, and they haven't even broached the inevitable Russian connections yet, which will be a can of worms which would make most investigators run screaming.

I'm quite content with Mueller and his team of investigators doing a slow, painstakingly thorough job. And I believe that's exactly what they're doing. There has never been an investigation of this scope before in U.S. history, possibly in world history. The tentacles of Trump's criminal activity spread amazingly far. Add in his accomplices, and those Republican Congressmen on the Putin payroll, and this investigation could take 5 years to complete.

[BadgerMom]

31. Regarding all levels:

Does anyone remember the interview where Roy Moore responded in Russian? I’m not a conspiracist usually but that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. It reminded me of the end of No Way Out with Kevin Costner. I’m not saying that’s the kind of role Roy Moore plays, but it struck me as so odd.

[maddiemom]

87. Ever check out the "clownish" Louis Gohmert's background?

Last edited Fri Aug 24, 2018, 12:03 PM - Edit history (1)

You won't find this in Wikipedia, but he lived in the then U.S.S.R. as some sort of an exchange student.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

78. The announcement by Russia that they HAVE the backchannel

installed already, is deeply terrifying. I believe it.

[hueymahl]

85. Lawrence Tribe says one of the founding reasons for the impeachment provision in the Constitution

Was election fraud. The writers were concerned about a candidate, for example, bribing members of the electoral college.

[Hekate]

9. KnR

[dalton99a]

11. Putin's expertise with the KGB was to cultivate and conceal assets

[SergeStorms]

69. Could you imagine another Russian asset....

that could do anymore harm to our country, NATO, the EU, the entire world than Trump has done already? I can't imagine five Russian agents who could collectively do the damage Trump has done by himself. If he's not a Russian agent Putin should make him the case study for all future GRU agent trainees.

[Achilleaze]

12. OK, Stinky. All plausible.

[MineralMan]

20. You could well be right. If so, we ain't seen nothing yet...

[GetRidOfThem]

21. I am working myself through Unger's House of Trump House of Putin...

I don't know how to tell you this, but I think one of the reasons why Mueller is taking so long is because there are oh so many leads. This could be a YUGE case, the bestliest ever!


(No seriously, you don't know the amount of dirt Unger has put sunlight on...)

[stopwastingmymoney]

66. I heard him on Stephanie this morning

I actually searched around in here to see if anyone was talking about it

Would you like to start a thread by any chance?

If you'll link it here, I'll follow and kick it up for you

Thanks!

[GetRidOfThem]

70. I already started a thread earlier...

[link:https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211019388|

[True Blue American]

72. You are quite right.

This investigation has turned over so much corruption it is almost impossible to expose them all.

[ariadne0614]

75. I wonder what "kompromat" Putin has on Lindsey Graham.

[SharonAnn]

82. That he's gay? But most people wouldn't really care.

[Wednesdays]

86. No, his being gay wouldn't raise any eyebrows

But a video of him romping with underaged sex slaves would be a whole different ballgame.

[SharonAnn]

83. That he's gay? But most people wouldn't really care.

[spanone]

24. He was much more than willing. I'll bet he approached them.

[world wide wally]

28. Keep in mind that we are dealing with a total sociopath.

NOTHING is beyond him... no matter how despicable it may seem to the rest of us.

[Chakaconcarne]

29. I too think this is bigger than Trump...

Mueller is the one who is going to ensure this Russian coup is put to an end.

[elleng]

32. Why do we hear nothing?

Great public servants.

[Firestorm49]

35. Couldn't agree with you more.

It’s the outcome that scares me. We don’t know what to expect as a result. Will it be Marshall Law until things settle down? Will it settle down? Do you want to be invested in the market when it plummets? Will it be the Hatfield’s and the McCoys for years to come?

Either way, the “right thing” needs to be handled very carefully. I trust that Mueller knows exactly what’s happened. He now has to juggle the intel and the outcome on a very slippery slope.

[scarytomcat]

52. yes the deplorables will take to the streets with their guns

people will be hurt if Trump is replaced by Hilary
yes Marshall Law

[bucolic_frolic]

58. I doubt Hillary would be interested at this point

The country would turn to elder statesmen. Joe Biden, and probably a Republican if any are left standing. GWB might be considered.

[ProfessorPlum]

79. Martial law. As in military

[Silver Gaia]

36. Yes to all the above.

There are many tentacles to this monster, and they extend around the world. Mueller knows he has to get this right, make it airtight, make it stick, to take down the monster. This is crucial. There are no do-overs. "Be patient, patriots. Eyes on the prize."

[gademocrat7]

37. K&R

Treasonous bastards.

[Honeycombe8]

38. There are no leaks coming out of the Mueller team.

So we don't know exactly what he's working n at this time, what's dead in the water, what's hot, where the evidence has taken him, regarding the Russia investigation and obstruction of justice.

I never considered that he was NOT working on the aspect of Trump being a foreign agent. I assumed he was looking at that, since Flynn was, so it's out there.

We only know what has been let out of the bag because of matters that Mueller has referred to other jurisdictions, or publlic hearings and trials and raids.

There may or may not be a pee tape. But it has never seemed to me that Trump looked upset about Russia, which is what he would look like if he were being blackmailed. It always seemed to me that Trump is after money, or is legitimately beholden to Russia for prior (and continuing) favors. Trump is involved with Russia in many ways, though not with the government, per se. And has been for decades.

There have been 87 communications, I think I read, between the Trump team and Russian operatives during the campaign. That sounds like they were working with or for the Russians. I would think, and hope, that Mueller is looking at that.

Of course, the trick is to have evidence of it.

[Squinch]

39. Mueller is clearly building. We already have tax fraud, violations of election finance rules.

Next week's Manafort trial will cover money laundering, including for Russia, acting as foreign agent for a Russian client state, witness tampering and obstruction.

Each step seems to be to acknowledge a step on the pyramid, then walk up to the next step. It is actually very elegantly constructed.

I feel certain that you are correct and that step is near the top of the pyramid.

[GeorgeGist]

42. As far as I am aware, the media hasn't read it.

[Achilleaze]

51. Corporate blow-dry media (R) does not want to know

But willful ignorance on their part at this point is dereliction of duty, and tantamount to treason.

[catchnrelease]

64. Pretty compelling

I just read a long excerpt of this book yesterday, I think on Slate or maybe The Atlantic, I forget. But it was so full of information that now I want to get the book to get the full story per Unger. (The article just stopped and I felt like when a movie just ends and you're left hanging....what?????)

[jrthin]

55. This is my line of thinking/hoping too. nt

[bucolic_frolic]

57. Which implies our entire Intelligence Community is involved

and yes, you wouldn't hear much about them. And the project would be so massive they are still debating how to clean it up, what can be cleaned up publicly, and what cannot. I'd bet it will be many decades before the last of it is known to the public.

[LiberalFighter]

59. I would love to see Trump's Tower showing

each floor that is occupied or owned by Russians.

[Louis1895]

61. Story day about White House communications is a worry

Only covered in Russian news that I know of:

White House Uses Russian Technology to Communicate With Kremlin, Rostec Says

A Rostec unit that specializes in encryption and secure communications, Avtomatika, reportedly supplies the White House with products that allow Trump to communicate directly with President Vladimir Putin.

The original unit was installed in 1963. I wonder if there are new features that allow Trump to contact Putin without knowledge of other Americans like the NSA.

[McCamy Taylor]

62. I think they are fishing. Allowing some major players to think that they are not under investigation

so that they will continue their espionage and entangle even more people with huge sums of corrupt Russian money. And I think Russia does not much care how many Americans go to jail so they will keep handing out the money and stupid, greedy Tea Party Republicans will keep taking it all the way up until November, not realizing that every cent that flows from the Russian mob to US politicians is being watched and recorded. Today's Republicans are money simple.

[Grasswire2]

67. We still don't know exactly what made Diane Feinstein turn white after a briefing. nt

[True Blue American]

71. Be sure and read

William Saleton on Slate. He lays t all out.


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/trump-chose-putin-over-america-right-in-front-of-us.html

[Roadside Attraction]

81. Read this book:

Recently released: "House of Trump; House of Putin."

The author goes back to the 1980's and tracks Trump's involvement with the Russian mob, which is actually run by the KGB/FSB. There is no doubt that Trump is, at the least, an unwitting Russian asset. IMO, Trump would have to be the dumbest man on earth not to understand he is being played by the Russians . . . which is not unlikely.

[librechik]

88. Just bought this--Hghly recommend

:" House of Trump, House of Putin" by Craig Unger

House of Trump, House of Putin offers the first comprehensive investigation into the decades-long relationship among Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, and the Russian Mafia that ultimately helped win Trump the White House.