BREAKING: Satire Officially Recognized as Valid Political Commentary

[MineralMan]

Jonathan Swift got slammed for "A Modest Proposal." Some people didn't recognize it as satire and got really, really angry. People are still getting angry when they don't recognize a piece of satirical writing as satire, even here on DU.

It's still a legitimate way to make political comment, whether some people fail to recognize it as satire or are confused by it. An inability of some to recognize irony, overstatement, the use of obviously false sources and other satirical tools is not reason enough to exclude it from places where politics are discussed. Various writers of satire use various ways to provide clues that a piece of writing is satirical in nature. What they do not do, and should not do, is declare a work to be satire at the very beginning of the work. That defeats the entire purpose of satire.

Some people don't recognize it. Some people also think Donald Trump is a terrific President. The rights of people to express themselves freely are crucial. Failure to understand what has been written doesn't warrant denying those rights.

[HipChick]

1. Waits for Thread Police...

[MineralMan]

2. Me too.

Actually, only the title of this post is satire. I wonder of that will be recognized.

As a sometimes writer of satire, I sometimes succeed and I sometimes fail to make my point through satirical posts. We all fail sometimes. That doesn't mean we should stop trying.

[Yonnie3]

3. Excellent!

Unfortunately sarcasm will remain a risk

[dalton99a]

4. .

[MineralMan]

9. Nice. He can leave the planet, as far as I'm concerned.

[NCTraveler]

5. We must deal with vulgar almanack makers, freeloading children, and ancient wizardry!

And this was captured on Onion-SPAN!

Rep Sinclair is looking out for all of us.

[MineralMan]

8. LOL!

Not bad at all...

[lindysalsagal]

6. But on DU, valid does not mean allowed....

[MineralMan]

7. Well, I've been here for 10 years, and people have been posting

satirical posts in GD for all of that time. Apparently, it is allowed, so that will probably continue. Valid political commentary is what DU is all about. There has never been a rule here against satirical posts, and I doubt there ever will be.

[MineralMan]

10. Here's a list of famous satirists throughout history.

This is why satire gets posted on DU. It's not all great satire, but sometimes, it is that, too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_satirists_and_satires

You might recognize some of the names. There are many more, along with lists of satirical works, at the link:

Modern satirists (born 1800–1900)
Evan Bevan (1803–1866) – satirical poetry in Welsh
Nikolai Gogol (1809–1852) – The Government Inspector, Dead Souls
Edgar Allan Poe (1809–1849) – The Man That Was Used Up, A Predicament
William Makepeace Thackeray (1811–1863) – Vanity Fair
Charles Dickens (1812–1870) – Hard Times, A Tale of Two Cities
James Russell Lowell (1819–1891) – A Fable for Critics
George Derby, a.k.a. John P. Squibob, John Phoenix (1823–1861)
Mikhail Saltykov-Shchedrin (1826–1889)
Lewis Carroll (1832–1898)
Samuel Butler (1835–1902) – Erewhon
Mark Twain (1835–1910) – Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County
W. S. Gilbert (1836–1911)
Narushima Ryūhoku (1837–1884)
Thomas Nast (1840–1902)
Ambrose Bierce (1842–1914?) – The Devil's Dictionary
Anatole France (1844–1924)
José Maria de Eça de Queirós (1845–1900)
Oscar Wilde (1854–1900)
George Bernard Shaw (1856–1950)
Jerome K. Jerome (1859–1927)
Anton Chekhov (1860–1904) – The Lady with the Dog
O. Henry (1862–1910)
Jalil Mammadguluzadeh (1866–1931)
Lakshminath Bezbaroa (1868–1938, India; wrote in Assamese language)
Saki, a.k.a. H. H. Munro (1870–1916)
Trilussa (1873–1950, Italy)
Alfred Jarry (1873–1907)
Radoje Domanović (1873–1908)
Iraj Mirza (1874–1926)
Karl Kraus (1874–1936)
Will Rogers (1879–1935)
James Branch Cabell (1879–1958)
Ali-Akbar Dehkhoda (1879–1959)
H. L. Mencken (1880–1956)
Arkady Averchenko (1881–1925)
P. G. Wodehouse (1881–1975)
Wyndham Lewis (1882–1957)
Jaroslav Hašek (1883–1923) – The Good Soldier Švejk
Oscar Cesare (1885–1948)
Kurt Tucholsky (1890–1935)
Mikhail Bulgakov (1891–1940) – Heart of a Dog, The Master and Margarita
Dorothy Parker (1893–1967)
Vladimir Mayakovsky (1893–1930)
Aldous Huxley (1894–1963) – Point Counter Point, Brave New World
Mikhail Zoshchenko (1895–1958)
Josep Pla (1897–1981)
Ilf and Petrov: Ilya Ilf (1897–1937) and Yevgeni Petrov (1903–1942) – The Twelve Chairs, The Little Golden Calf
Yury Olesha (1899–1960) – Three Fat Men
Fred Roberts and Jack Pearson. Editor and Sub-Editor of the "Wipers Times".

Modern satirists (born 1900–1930)
Evelyn Waugh (1903–1966)
George Orwell (1903–1950) – Animal Farm, Nineteen Eighty-Four
Malcolm Muggeridge (1903–1990, UK)
Dr. Seuss (1904–1991) – The Lorax (1971), The Butter Battle Book (1984)
Kurt Kusenberg (1904–1983, Germany)
Daniil Kharms (1905–1942, Russia/USSR)
Jean Effel (1908–1982, France) – cartoonist, author of the cartoon cycle The Creation of the World
Al Capp (1909–1979, US)
Arkady Raikin (1911–1987, Russia/USSR) – stand-up comedian
Walt Kelly (1913–1973, US)
Anthony Burgess (1917–1993, UK) – A Clockwork Orange
Kurt Vonnegut (1922–2007) – Slaughterhouse-Five, Breakfast of Champions, Cat's Cradle
Lenny Bruce (1925–1966) – stand-up comedian
Joseph Heller (1923–1999) – Catch-22
Terry Southern (1924–1995) – The Magic Christian, Dr. Strangelove
Günter Grass (born 1927) – The Tin Drum, Cat and Mouse
Stanley Kubrick (1928–1999) – Dr. Strangelove
Harvey Kurtzman (1924–1993)
Tom Lehrer (born 1928, US) – That Was the Year That Was
Jules Feiffer (1929, US)
Ray Bradbury (US)
William S. Burroughs (US)
Dario Fo (Italy)
Flannery O'Connor (US)
C. Northcote Parkinson (UK)
Anna Russell (UK)
Gore Vidal (US)
Mel Brooks (US)
Erma Bombeck (1927) (US)
Allan Sherman (1924–1973, US) – musician, parodist, television producer, voice actor
Stan Freberg (1926, US) – musician, parodist, voice actor
Brian O'Nolan (1911–1966) – At Swim-Two-Birds (as Flann O'Brien)
Ephraim Kishon (1924, Israel)
Jerry Lewis (1926-2017) (US) - comedian, screenwriter, director

Contemporary satirists (born 1930–1960)
Stewart Lee
Roger Abbott (Canada)
Mordecai Richler (1931–2001, Canada)
Tom Wolfe (1931) – The Bonfire of the Vanities
Vladimir Voinovich (1932, Russia/USSR) – The Life and Extraordinary Adventures of Private Ivan Chonkin, Moscow 2042
Robert Anton Wilson (1932–2007) The Illuminatus! Trilogy
Barry Humphries (1934) – My Gorgeous Life, The Life and Death of Sandy Stone, stage shows
Jonathan Miller (1934, UK)
Alan Bennett (1934, UK)
Mykhailo Zhvanetskyi (1934, Ukraine/Russia/USSR)
Dudley Moore (1935–2002, UK)
Woody Allen (1935, US)
Richard Ingrams (1937, UK)
George Carlin (1937–2008) – stand-up comedian
Peter Cook (1937–1995, UK) – of the Satire boom, Beyond the Fringe
Eleanor Bron (1938, UK)
David Frost (1939–2013, UK)
Grigori Gorin (1940–2000, Russia/USSR)
Frank Zappa (1940–1993) – We're Only in It for the Money, Cruising with Ruben & the Jets
Sergei Dovlatov (1941–1990, Russia/USSR)
Kioumars Saberi Foumani (1941–2004, Iran)
Gennady Khazanov (1945, Russia/USSR) – stand-up comedian
Jonathan Meades (1947, UK) – writer, broadcaster, satirist
Lewis Black (1948) – stand-up comic, The Daily Show
Terry Pratchett (1948–2015) – The Discworld book series
Mikhail Zadornov (1948, Russia/USSR)
Garry Trudeau (1948, US)
Jaafar Abbas (Sudan/Middle East)
George Saunders
Christopher Guest (1948, US) – This Is Spinal Tap, Waiting for Guffman
Georg Schramm (1949, Germany) – Scheibenwischer, Neues aus der Anstalt, kabarett artist
Gary Larson (1950, US) – cartoonist
Fran Lebowitz (1950, US) – The Fran Lebowitz Reader, Public Speaking (film) – NYC public intellectual
Steve Bell (1951)
Al Franken (1951, US)
Douglas Adams (1952–2001, UK) – The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Mary Walsh (1952, Canada)
Don Ferguson (Canada)
Christopher Buckley (1952) – Thank You for Smoking, The White House Mess
Carl Hiaasen (1953) – Tourist Season, Double Whammy, Basket Case, Skinny Dip
Louis de Bernières (1954, UK) – Latin America Trilogy: The War of Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts, Señor Vivo and the Coca Lord, The Troublesome Offspring of Cardinal Guzman
Matt Groening (1954, US) – The Simpsons, Futurama
George C. Wolfe (1954) – The Colored Museum
Howard Stern (1954, US)
Jaspal Bhatti (1955–2012, India)
Cathy Jones (1955, Canada)
Bill Maher (1956, US)
Percival Everett (1956, US)
Ziad Rahbani (1956, Lebanon)
David Sedaris (1956, US)
Scott Adams (1957, US)
Stephen Fry (1957, UK)
Wayne Federman (1959, US)
Bill Watterson (1958, US) – cartoonist, Calvin and Hobbes
"Weird Al" Yankovic (1959, US)
Hugh Laurie (1959, UK)
Jello Biafra (1958, US)
Victor Shenderovich (1958, Russia)
Ebrahim Nabavi (1958), winner of Prince Claus Award (2005)
Robert Zubrin (US)
Craig Brown (UK)
Dave Barry (1947) – Pulitzer Prize winning humour columnist
Luba Goy (Canada)
David Lodge (author)
Jeffrey Morgan (Canada) – CREEM, Metro Times
Neil Innes (1944, UK) – former Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band founder and member of The Rutles. Writer of satirical songs and books
Phil Hendrie (1952) – radio host of The Phil Hendrie Show
Stoney Burke (1953, US)

Contemporary satirists (born 1960–present)
Jacob Appel (1973) – playwright (Causa Mortis, Arborophilia)
Michael "Atters" Attree (UK, 1965)
Paul Beatty (1962, US) – author (The White Boy Shuffle, The Sellout)
Nigel Blackwell (UK) of Half Man Half Biscuit
Jan Böhmermann (1981, Germany)
Charlie Brooker – (1971, UK) Nathan Barley
Bo Burnham (1990, US)
Dave Chappelle (1973, US)
David Cross (1964, US) – Mr. Show, Arrested Development
Sacha Baron Cohen (1971) – Borat, Da Ali G Show
Stephen Colbert (1964, US) – The Colbert Report, The Daily Show
Douglas Coupland – Generation X: Tales for an Accelerated Culture
Johnny Corn (1969, US) – stand-up comedian
Scott Dikkers (US)
Bret Easton Ellis (1964, US)
Ricky Gervais (1961, UK)
Sabina Guzzanti (Italy)
Bill Hicks (1961–1994, US) – stand-up comedian
Mishu Hilmy (US) – Good Morning Gitmo
Ian Hislop (1960) – Private Eye
Jessica Holmes (Canada)
Mike Judge (US)
Lisa Kennedy Montgomery a.k.a. Kennedy (US)
Erik Larsen (1962) "Savage Dragon" comic book from Image Comics
Craig Lauzon (Canada)
Victor Lewis-Smith – TV Offal
Ash Lieb (1982) Artist, author and comedian.
Chris Lilley (1975) – Summer Heights High, We Can Be Heroes: Finding The Australian of the Year, Big Bite
Daniele Luttazzi (Italy)
Aaron McGruder (US) – The Boondocks (comic strip) and The Boondocks (TV series)
Rick Mercer (1969) – Rick Mercer Report
Tim Minchin (1975, AU)
Mark Morford (Present) – Notes and Errata, San Francisco Chronicle, SF Gate
Chris Morris (1965, UK) – Brass Eye, The Day Today
Gregory Motton (1961, UK) - playwright and author
The Moustache Brothers (Mandalay, Myanmar)
Bob Odenkirk (1962, US) – Mr. Show, Saturday Night Live, The Larry Sanders Show
John Oliver (1977, England) – Last Week Tonight with John Oliver[1]
George Ouzounian a.k.a. Maddox (1978, US) – website The Best Page in the Universe
Chuck Palahniuk (US)
Alan Park (Canada)
Trey Parker – South Park, Team America: World Police, The Book of Mormon
Mark A. Rayner (Canada)
Eric Schwartz (songwriter) (US)
Amy Sedaris (US)
Sarah Silverman (US)
Martin Sonneborn (Germany; known for pranking/"bribing" FIFA executives to vote for Germany as host of the 2006 soccer world cup)
Jon Stewart (1962, US) – The Daily Show
Matt Stone – South Park, Team America: World Police, The Book of Mormon
Greg Thomey (1961, Canada)
David Thorne (Present, AU)
Jhonen Vasquez (1974) – Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, Squee, etc.
Bassem Youssef (1974, EG) – Al Bernameg
Hari Kondabolu (1982, US)

[Gothmog]

11. I had to take Civics to graduate from High School

My civic teacher was also my debate coach and she was big on the history of the use of political cartoons in political debate. I was fortunate to have her as a teacher

I regret that students do not have to take Civics. Both of my older kids did take AP Govt and got AP credit

[MineralMan]

12. I think the real objection is from people who don't get the satire

right away, and are annoyed because they think they were tricked into reading the post. Their time is so valuable that they don't have even a minute to read something they don't recognize as satire. Then, they're pissed off that they didn't understand what was going on until later. It's that last thing that bothers them most, I think.

I'm sure people have reacted that way to satire throughout its history. Certainly Jonathan Swift's audience reacted that way. Many of Twain's readers did, too, and his work was widely condemned in its day as well.

It's a horrible thing to lose a minute or two by being fooled, I guess.

[Gothmog]

13. Liberals tend to have a sense of humor and so we get satire

I enjoy satire and appreciate the role that satire plays n political debate

Again, I was so fortunate to have a great debate coach/civic teacher who exposed me to these concepts. I was in high school during Watergate and I remember Art Buchwald and Doonesbury being important voices

[MineralMan]

14. I grew up reading Mad Magazine, despite my parents' misgivings.

It taught me to look at established things from a different point of view. It was a wonderful counter to all of the indoctrination that was being pushed on me from all sides. Of course, I branched out from there as I grew older, taking in more and more sophisticated satirical material.

Frankly, I think that such material should be standard educational fare in schools. But that's just me, apparently, since it has not been introduced widely.

[VOX]

15. Took a terrific course in college: "The Art of Social Commentary."

Everything from Goya to Daumier, Dickens to modern political cartoons. The one universal theme: speaking up for the weak and defenseless in society, and how the use of biting, ironic humor hammers home a point much stronger than blunt force.

[MineralMan]

16. But., you see, satire makes some people uncomfortable.

That's the problem. People don't like to be made to feel uncomfortable.

[VOX]

17. True. And some people just don't possess the ability to "get it."

Satire, irony, nuance... foreign concepts to the strict, right-wing mind.

[MineralMan]

18. Well, I don't particularly bother with such people.

Time is too limited for that. This thread is about that. There was a complaint about satire today in GD. The OP wanted to see a rule against it being posted in GD. I thought it warranted a rebuttal thread.

[VOX]

19. Ahh, I see. Agree with you completely.

Nobody takes away satire!