I want to live in a world where crimes committed in one's teens....

[LAS14]

... don't define your whole life. BUT, we live in a time when we are uncovering a pervasive societal crime. That is the crime of the male sense of entitlement. I worked at one small company my whole professional life and happily did not experience or here of any sexual harassment. It took the #MeToo movement to get me educated. Anita Hill and Christine Ford would probably not have been victims if men and boys didn't feel entitled. ("I just grab their pussy." ) So it is a good thing whenever a woman is willing to come forward and add to the story so that we know what a terrible norm our society has been supporting.

P.S. I've gotten lots of replies but almost all are directed toward the idea of what should happen if a teen commits a crime (I did have "make mistakes", but I meant including crimes). I'd like to hear some thoughts about the main part of my OP. I felt like it was a real insight, but no one has addressed it.

[zipplewrath]

1. I'm slightly different

I've worked in a world where my youthful indiscretions have followed me for decades. Mind you, they weren't definitive, but had their impact. To some extent I could never escape them. As such, I don't feel that someone trying to get on the Supreme Court should somehow get a "pass" on them.

[thbobby]

2. The first step in correcting a mistake

Is to admit to it. Then apologize sincerely to the victims. Youthful mistakes that turn into a lifetime of denial should not be forgiven. I am an atheist, but isn't this a Christian Belief? Atoning for one's sins and other such platitudes. I am not trying to demean all Christians (or any religious people), but if one professes to be a Christian, should you adhere to Christian Principles?

[uponit7771]

9. +1, yes it's Christian to admit the wrong first which is what KNaugh isn't doing. He's lying and ...

... lying when the truth and an apology would serve him better.

Now he can't go before the FBI and lie to them because it involves jail time.

[Rorey]

3. I want to live in a world where it's not okay to pretend that something didn't happen.

Somehow I think that what Kavanaugh (allegedly) did is more than "a mistake". It's an indicator of his character. He didn't acknowledge. He didn't make atonement. He didn't seek forgiveness. He's the same pond scum that he was back in prep school, and has been skating through life like he didn't do anything wrong.

[plcdude]

4. Mistake is the operative word her

Sexually assaulting someone is hardly just a simple mistake.

[ProfessorGAC]

16. Off Topic Question

Are you in controls technology? I'm going that way because "PLC".

We have bunches of them around here and i know the ladder logic programmers in another building.

[lagomorph777]

18. I programmed PLCs back in the 70s.

That was fun! I even downloaded the boot code for one from the Internet (yes, it did exist then). I saved the download on paper tape.

[eleny]

5. I can't consider attempted rape a mistake

Kav joined a frat with a reputation that was aggressive in its attitude towards women. It was his choice of milieu.

[area51]

13. +1 n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

15. I'm In Your and PLC's Camp

Attempting rape is not a youthful indiscretion. It's a crime of violence.

[LAS14]

23. Please respond to whole OP. I've edited "mistakes" to "crimes."

I've gotten lots of replies but almost all are directed toward the idea of what should happen if a teen commits a crime (I did have "make mistakes", but I meant including crimes). I'd like to hear some thoughts about the main part of my OP. I felt like it was a real insight, but no one has addressed it.

[uponit7771]

6. LYING about those mistakes is what Kavanaugh is mostly being called out on. He could SIMPLY just

... say I was there, drunk and most likely screwed up because I was an overprivileged brat but straitened my life later yada yada.

He's not

He's hiding behind Red Don, this is stupid ... he's hiding with truth would've served him better.

[LAS14]

24. I'd be interested in your thoughts about the main part of my OP.

I've gotten lots of replies but almost all are directed toward the idea of what should happen if a teen commits a crime (I did have "make mistakes", but I meant including crimes). I'd like to hear some thoughts about the main part of my OP. I felt like it was a real insight, but no one has addressed it.

[uponit7771]

32. The entitlement part would require a look at the current and recent behavior, if the sense is there

... like Red Don then fuck em ... hit em hard

[Solly Mack]

7. Sexual assault isn't a mistake someone makes. It's a crime someone commits.

[KT2000]

10. +10000

[LAS14]

25. I've edited the OP accordingly. nt

[KT2000]

8. my teenage boyfriend

was convicted of marijuana possession - years ago. That was a felony that has followed him his whole life.
I know an 18 year old male who had a 17 year old girlfriend. They had sex and the parents learned about it. The had him charged with statutory rape. He is now a lifelong registered sex offender.
I know women who as teenage girls were raped and it changed their lives forever.

Sorry but some teenage behavior does follow a person for life. I am glad though that people are learning from this event and the r senator are being shown as seriously out of their minds.

[Tribalceltic]

11. I would like to live...

in a world where...

Attempted Rape and Assault or not considered "Mistakes" instead of Criminal offenses.

There are not one set of Laws for the rich and one for the poor or minority

Where women can feel free from repercussions when reporting assaults, even if the trauma from those assaults has prevented them from reporting them right away.

Perverts from the republican party and the church face justice more than someone who smokes a little marijuana.

Trolls from Russia don't make "almost believable" comments blaming the victim

[gratuitous]

12. The winky smilie appears because your close quote is followed by a close parenthesis

Being orthographically correct in this age of computers can be a curse. When it happens to me, I put an extra space between the close quote and close paren. It doesn't look proper to my eye, but far better than the winky smilie.

[Doodley]

14. Being a teenage boy or a man is not an excuse. I believe most teenage boys and most men are not

sexual predators.

[lagomorph777]

19. +1 The Greedy Old Pervert party wants you to think "all guys do it."

We DO NOT.

[LAS14]

21. Please read the whole OP. I'd be interested in your thoughts. nt

[Doodley]

37. Obviously, I do not agree with it. As a male, I have never had a sense of

entitlement to abuse women. I don't even know other guys who do.

[LAS14]

43. Donald Trump, for one???? The scores of men revealed by the #MeToo movement?? nt

[LAS14]

55. Please respond. Were you being sarcastic? If not, your response seems so non DU. nt

[Doodley]

58. I don't understand what you mean. Please don't talk in riddles.

[LAS14]

59. OK. What I mean is....

... If you really meant what you posted (not sarcastic), how can you not realize that men in this society feel entitled? Examples being Donald Trump (I grab their pussy) and the numerous men men uncovered by #MeToo??? I have no problem believing that you don't feel entitled, nor do any of you friends. (I have never been harassed). But how can you think that other men don't feel entitled?

[Doodley]

65. I agree. It isn't because Trump is a man though. It's because he's a narcissist.

[LAS14]

63. Ah! Were you reading my post to say I thought ALL men felt...

....a sense of entitlement? Sorry, I should have made clear that I don't think all men do. I was saying that way too many do, such that it is a fault of our culture. I have no problem believing that you and your friends don't. Just like I and my colleagues (as far as I know) were never sexually harassed. Does that clear it up?

[Doodley]

64. Thank you. We agree!

[fishwax]

17. I want to live in a world where mistakes made ine one's teens don't ruin the lives of their victims

The fact is that mistakes we make follow us and inform who we become, one way or another. It seems to me that the gap between "defining your whole life" and "preventing you from a lifetime appointment on the most powerful judicial body in the land, with the ability to make decisions that affect the lives and well-being of millions" provides plenty of space through which to thread the right needle.

[EffieBlack]

20. I don't expect bad behavior by teens to define their whole life UNLESS

as an adult, they haven't acknowledged it, learned from it, and made amends. But this idea that these people - mostly men - can behave any damned well they please and then just dismiss it as something they did when they were young and foolish that doesn't matter is bullshit.

[malaise]

22. You probably typed symbols to close the bracket

Has happened to me

[LAS14]

26. Could someone respond to the main point of my OP?

I've gotten lots of replies but almost all are directed toward the idea of what should happen if a teen commits a crime (I did have "make mistakes", but I meant including crimes). I'd like to hear some thoughts about the main part of my OP. I felt like it was a real insight, but no one has addressed it.

[lapfog_1]

27. I committed a few crimes in my "youth"

I know I drove drunk at least 2 times while in college. to be fair to me, I knew I was drunk and I drove home at like 15 mph (a dead giveaway if any cop had spotted me). Doesn't excuse what I did.

I smoked pot in high school and college (it was a crime then).

As a prank, I participated with a group to "deface" a window at the new campus computer center.

I once put a fish head between two buns, wrapped it in saran wrap with a label that said "fish head sandwich" into a automated vending machine that consistently sold out of date sandwiches.

I stole a number of cokes from a vending machine at my college where, if you punched the vending machine in the right spot, it would deliver a coke with no money needed. It was very satisfying.

In high school, I participated in a "ride the bronco" event where each of us took turns trying to hold onto the hood of a moving vehicle (a ford bronco) while someone was driving it backwards and making sudden turns to shake the rider - this was done in a dirt field. Again, drinking was involved.

I never attempted to rape a woman. Never held my hand over her mouth to silence her from getting help. I never hurt anyone other than myself (when the bronco dumped me, I landed on my hand and broke a bone).

Should I pay a penalty for my youthful crimes... well... I might not win a nomination to the Supreme Court.

But then I wouldn't put myself forward to get to such a position.

[Guilded Lilly]

28. Male entitlement is epidemic. It is a pervasive and deeply entrenched societal flaw...

that transcends age, race, social status and religion.

We are, after generations of enabling the destructive “flaw”, barely beginning to address the mind set (moral and criminal).

It will, as usual, take incredibly strong and courageous women to lead the way, make the changes. (And it is going to continue to be damned, devastatingly painful) They, we, women, will never have one moment of easy victories because the entitled gender, whether they recognize how much they benefit from the entitlement or not, will not give us much aid in the fight. Some, like us, are overwhelmed, scared, insecure. And then there are those who will calculatingly, knowingly fight against us for ANY change.

When you have been the beneficiary of entitlement for your lifetime plus several lifetimes preceding you, even recognizing the problem IS a problem.

But a serious problem, it IS.

[Doodley]

38. I"m a male. Sorry about that. Tell me how I am entitled.

[MrsCoffee]

40. Are you serious?

[Doodley]

41. Yep, when I keep reading how entitled males are. Share with me how I am entitled.

[MrsCoffee]

44. Group entitlement and privilege do not necessarily equate to individual success or fulfillment.

The odds are in favor of those in the privileged group even if those in the group aren't able to recognize it.

I don't think I need to waste my time here.

[Doodley]

46. How are my odds "in favor?"

[Separation]

61. If you have a group of 4 women

Chances are that one of them have been sexually assaulted.

And that is just off of the top of my head how "your odds" are in favor.

[Guilded Lilly]

47. OK. From the subtle to the insidious...hard wired and more easily addressed...

Here are just some. Agree or not, they exist. Some have changed towards achieving equality. Some not yet, if ever. Some societal. Some historical.
Males can sometimes find it difficult to recognize how females have lived with the struggles because they are in their own battles with other males.
Some males can’t see it. Others practice it with frightening acceptance and willingness.
The struggle for females is very real.

In some everyday simple cliches etc.:
Boys will be boys
That’s Women’s Work.
A woman’s Place is in the Home.
Quit acting/crying/whining like a girl.
She’s pretty good at sports...for a girl.
A man’s shoes are hard to fill.
Who wears the pants in that family?
Man-sized job.
The Weaker Sex.

In general societal and historically some seemingly small, others insidiously damaging:
Women in sports are paid less for the same wins.
Educational bodies until recent history supported/recognized only men’s teams.
Men play sports, women cheer them on from the sidelines.
Men showing off their bodies are macho.
Women showing off their bodies are vulgar and shamed.
Male everyday clothing is tailored to accommodate diversified sizes. Collar, arm/inseam length. Women s-m-l.
Male children are given higher value.(the importance of a male heir, “Jr.s, the passing on of male names)
Men with sexual drives are “all male”, women with sexual drives are sluts, whores.
Men are applauded, respected for being aggressive, women are bitches and ball breakers.
Men are the default gender. In history men were the legally privileged and recognized. Women were not permitted to own property, businesses, vote, etc.
Mankind, History, chairmanship, fireman,fellowship, manpower, forefathers
Men could have multiple wives, women never multiple husbands. Chattel laws.
Women were not permitted to create art, music, write (unless using a male pen name)
Royal lines passed through males only/first.
Women are paid less for the same work.
Married names are the male’s surnames.
Children carry their male parental surname. Ancestry is dominated by male lines.
Patriarchal religions excluding females. Built on the subservience of females.
There are more.

And if your preference is Internet research, these all popped up right away in search:

https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/160-examples-of-male-privilege/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/a-lesson-for-men-and-the-women-they-dont-own_us_59950d56e4b00dd984e37c66

https://thebodyisnotanapology.com/magazine/these-25-examples-of-male-privilege-from-a-trans-guys-perspective-really-prove-the-point/

https://www.saferresource.org.au/male_entitlement_and_male_privilege#

https://changefromwithin.org/tag/masculine-entitlement/

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/feature/a863907/sexist-tv-movie-stereotype-cliche/

http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/11/30-examples-of-male-privilege/

https://thebodyisnotanapology.com/magazine/we-belong-to-ourselves-on-male-entitlement-and-womens-right-to-say-no/

There are more if you want to look for yourself.

[Doodley]

49. We live in a changing world and a lot of what you list is historic.

I could equally come up with a list in which females are "privileged" in this day and age. I could talk about how laws favor women, how women are not forced to register for the draft, how women's genitals are not circumcised as they are with boys, how custody of children and divorce laws favors women, etc.

I could find surveys that suggest women are obsessed with how they look, how their appearance is used to get on in their careers, how women live longer than men and how they cost far more in medicare.

I could write a book on it, but I am not a hater. I am not a divider. I respect women. I long for the day we have a female president and at least half our representatives are female, but what I see, is the bashing of men because of the behavior of a minority.

I see a generalization that is saying men "grab 'em by the pussy," is because men are privileged. That is nonsense. I am a guy and like most men, I don't feel that I have any special privilege to do that, and I don't know any other guys who do. I know you aren't doing this, but I do not like to see almost half the population tarred with the same brush.

By the way, my wife has chosen to keep her family name and she creates art in her own name. We have a relationship that is equal. Look around. That is the new normal.

[Guilded Lilly]

50. I read and hear what you say. You specifically asked...

I specifically answered, giving you generations of historic and societal examples, up to and including today, of the male gender entitlement existing.

I respectfully and firmly stand by my answers and examples.

[MrsCoffee]

53. Sounds like a lot of men's rights advocate talking points to me.

[Johnny2X2X]

29. Central Park 5

Trump sure didn't seem to think these 5 innocent teens shouldn't pay the price for a crime they had nothing to do with, in fact, Trump still claims they were guilty.

[eleny]

30. When you wrote your OP what kind of mistakes/crimes were you thinking about?

Since you first interpreted them as mistakes I don't want to presume you meant the alleged assault that Dr. Ford experienced when she was a young teen. It's on all our minds and it's the only crime you cite in your posting. So I need clarification.

[LAS14]

33. Anything, actually, except murder. I believe in statutes...

...of limitations. BUT, as I said in my OP, we need to address a systemic, societal crime, that is, allowing males to feel a sense of entitlement. To address that requires that many, many, many women speak out and show the world how pervasive sexual assaults are, whether pussy grabbing or rape.

[JonLP24]

35. I'm all for statue of limitations except for rape sex crimes

Like the serial killer in California can't charge him with the numerous rapes he committed.

[grumpyduck]

31. "Male entitlement" isn't new: it's just a new term

Trying to respond to the OP here...

Now and then we see a clip in the media about commercials or ads from the 50s and 60s that would never make it today. A man spanking his wife? A woman kneeling to a man while serving him coffee? If ad agencies for consumer products were putting that stuff out back then, it was because people who saw the ads would "relate" to them in some fashion. Even if they were intended as humorous, the ad agencies would not have been allowed to run these ads if there was an outcry against them.

Sitcoms from the fifties and sixties: women were housewives for the most part. The guys had the brains.

Roll all this back to the early 20th century before women were allowed to vote. Roll it back to previous centuries. What do we see?

Sure there are exceptions. There are exceptions to everything. Let's not get distracted here.

But what I'm seeing isn't so much "male entitlement" (a convenient term) as much as a sense that "that's the way it is because that's how it's always been." And yeah, more and more women are calling BS to it. As they should.

But when you get people (mostly guys) who have only been exposed to this "males rule" idea, and nobody has ever called them on it, then yeah, you have to expect them to behave that way.

How many people voted against Hillary for the specific reason that she's female? I don't now, but I'd love to see some kind of survey on it. Heck, even the fact that (without realizing it) I just used her first name instead of her last name says something.

IMHO, calling it "male entitlement" is just going to put a whole lot of guys on the defensive. I don't think it's "entitlement" as much as it is a mindset that's been allowed to continue far too long. And it needs to be called out.

Hope that responds to your OP.

[LAS14]

34. Thanks. Helpful. nt

[oberliner]

62. Every seen The Honeymooners?

The men are morons and the women have all the brains.

In fact, it is a fairly common trope that the housewife in many of these shows is smarter than the husband.

[WeekiWater]

36. I like everything you presented.

I would extend to to include more than teens. The stigma placed on certain bad decisions does a lot of harm. Not just to the individual but to society as well. We are a pretty punitive country/people.

[Tom Rinaldo]

39. "define your whole life" It need not be that way if someone truly turns their life around...

...but it remains a part of their life regardless. However you know what does define one's whole life? Being named to the United States Supreme Court. That is an honor that should be reserved for the absolute best among us. The only matter subject to any debate is just how far short Kavanaugh falls of that standard. The known facts about his youth, including his years at Law school, show a moral deficiency that he never has deeply repented for. His actions while working for Ken Starr and George W. Bush show the same. His perjury before the Senate does the same. As does his refusal to call for a full FBI investigation to clear his name against the current allegations against him

If he is innocent he should be demanding an investigation. If he is guilty he long since should have begged forgiveness for his youthful crimes.

[Garrett78]

42. I want to live in a world where women feel safe and supported enough to come forward immediately.

And in a world in which we raise boys and girls differently so as to greatly reduce toxic masculinity and misogyny.

I hope Me Too is taking us toward that better world.

[Guilded Lilly]

48. Thank you. Yes. Better world for all.

[TeamPooka]

45. lot of black men still in jail for minor crimes committed as teens. smoking pot etc.

I hope the GOP shows them the same mercy they seek for Kavanaugh

[Frustratedlady]

51. Teen boys don't feel like they have grown up until they have had "experience" with women.

They feel little or no pain and certainly no shame. "That was cool!" And then, with no punishment whatsoever, since the girl is afraid to tell, they move to the next conquest.

At the same time in their lives, they are SO proud of what they've accomplished, they tell all the other guys...even when they did NOT take advantage of some young girl. The harm to that girl is nearly as bad as if he'd raped her. Suddenly, other "guys" are asking for a date because they think they have an east mark...and the beat goes on.

It's been that way for decades and the only reasoning I can come up with is hormones rule. Whatever move it takes to scratch the itch is the direction they will go.

We are now seeing the "good ol' boy" part of society where these old coots are doing everything they can to cover for Kavanaugh...even to the point of hiring a firm to convince society she is wrong and he is entitled to one of the highest positions in our government. A lot of people go along with that practice.

[MaryMagdaline]

52. Crimes and mistakes of our youth should matter

It bothers me, for example, that Beto has a criminal record. He could have killed someone while driving DUI. He has acknowledged his selfishness; he has reformed; and the episodes have actually humbled him. His maturity actually makes me like him and trust him a little more. With kavansugh, the key character trait is bullying. He has not changed one bit ... from attempted rape, to harassing Vince Foster’s family, to reading stolen documents, he has not reformed, he will cut anyone down in his way and he is still an entitled prick. If he had given a speech about wild days at Georgetown Prep and said something like I was an entitled little shit who’s been humbled by raising a family, if he had identified with how vulnerable kids are, if he had stopped gambling, stopped drinking, acknowledged how much harder it is for poor people than was for him, if he had said I would have been in jail if not white and upper class... all of that could make a difference.

I believe he is still drinking and gambling and feels entitled to do so. BRAGGING about high school debauchery reveals an immature man who still thinks it cool to be part of Animal House.

So yes, it matters. There has been no development. Perhaps if the victim had seen such development she might not have come forward.

[LAS14]

54. Yes, if the pattern persists, people should be held accountable. nt

[OhNo-Really]

56. Different laws, different states; however

Character development is a life long process.

SCOTUS Justices are and must be held to higher character standards then everyone else. They pass laws that directly affect the "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" declared to be our rights.

A violent act as a teenager is a disqualifier for SCOTUS Nominee. Operative word "violent"

"felt he could inadvertently kill me"

Most men haven't a clue how this can be "felt" by any woman being violently attacked. I have an anxiety attack even picturing this scenario.

This near-death feeling during the attack certainly explains why Kavanaugh will be banned from the room during testimony and from becoming a Supreme Court Justce. But I sure would make him sit quietly and watch a recording of Dr. Ford's testimony as we watch is reaction. He has a right to face his accuser. Grant him his right to watch the video! We have a right to watch Kavanaugh.

That said

What woman would willingly lie about being violently, sexually attacked to 350 million fellow citizens, the world via social media, and subject her children to death threats?

Dr. Christine Blasy Ford, Professor of Psychology, is telling the truth and, if not, is completely insane. I believe her cracker jack legal team would have ferreted out the possibility of insane.

Therefore, I 100% believe Kavanaugh is guilty as charged.

And, yes, it is reasonable for violent, sexual teenage behavior to be a record that sticks like glue for life. It is a punishment for heinous behavior.

But they are too safe. Millions of rape kits are still not processed.

[LAS14]

57. I've had another insight.

A thing that points to the problem of a sense of entitlement is that many, many of the perpetrators of sexual misconduct and sexual crimes are otherwise law abiding citizens. They don't consider themselves outside of society, as criminals of other types probably do. This points to the probability that they don't consider their behavior bad conduct or criminal. They think it is endorsed by their culture.

[LAS14]

60. Check out response #37. It seems like it needs to be explored. nt