If a) Manchin votes to confirm Kav AND b) Dems take Senate by 2 seats

[RockRaven]

Would you support Schumer telling Manchin to go f- himself and deny him any committee assignments whatsoever and every other benefit/privilege of caucusing with the Dems?

[CincyDem]

1. absolutely. But let's see what comes out of the Manchin/Flake/Collins/Murkowski meeting. n/t

[hatrack]

19. Nothing. That is what will come out of it. Nothing.

More phony hand-wringing, more faux concern, and in the end, Judge Drunky McRapeweep will be confirmed.

Then all the little elephants will stomp their feet and rattle their tusks and call for "healing" and "bipartisanship" and the need for Americans to "come together".

[FM123]

52. Judge Drunky McRageweep

Wow, that about sums it up...

[lastlib]

63. I like that, but I think you chould change the 'g' to a 'p'....

Drunky McRapeweep.

[FM123]

68. Yes!

[hatrack]

69. Now that you guys mention it .. . .

[whathehell]

78. The automatic "woe is me" pessimism

thing is getting kind of old, don't you think?..How 'bout we just wait an hour or so and wait for the vote?

[leftynyc]

84. It's simply realistic

to not expect anything from those republican senators. When push comes to shove, they toe the line. Personally, I'm not into wishful thinking.

[whathehell]

86. No, i don't think so. I think It's simply easier than appearing "naive"

by expressing hope or optimisim.

[leftynyc]

88. And I think expressing hope

and optimism that any republican will do the right thing is unrealistic.

[whathehell]

93. and I think trashing all hope for Murkowski & Collins is equally so.

[leftynyc]

98. They're going to do what they're told

or they will lose seniority and committee assignments. The republican party is run by fascists and I'm tired of expecting ANY of them to do the right thing.

[whathehell]

101. That's very possible, but not inevitable..

Sorry, I'd prefer being disappointed occasionally, even frequently, than live in despair every day.

[leftynyc]

103. I don't live in despair at all

I live in NY where the supreme court's actions have very little to do with my life. I do, however, live in the real world where the republican party has sold their soul to a whoremongering degenerate.

[hatrack]

105. And now we know Flake will vote for him . . .

. . . . you were saying?

[whathehell]

109. Some of us can handle disappointment

without sinking into unproductive bitterness.

[hatrack]

110. It's not bitterness, it's realism . . .

At this point, the election is the only thing that matters, not inside baseball about a foregone conclusion in the Senate.

[whathehell]

113. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[whathehell]

117. Lol...Only Flake's vote is in.

Not the whole ball game, obviously.

[OrlandoDem2]

2. No.

[Stinky The Clown]

3. No

[Demsrule86]

4. No he votes with us most of the time...if the GOP votes for Kavanaugh, it doesn't matter.

[angrychair]

13. No, actual he votes more with trump than Dems

He votes with trump 61% of the time according to 538:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/

[Demsrule86]

25. And? 61 % votes with us is way better than the high 90's for most GOP types.

You want to get rid of all the red state Senators? We will never control the Senate and have no say in what comes to the floor...the numbers matter...we can get some stuff done or none that is the reality... Also,.many of these votes are the Red state Dems voting when it doesn't matter because it will pass with GOP votes. You have to get elected...better to have red state Dems than Republicans...when we had more of them we held the Senate and passed the ACA.

[LandOfHopeAndDreams]

27. Nope, Not What The Poster Said

He 39% Votes With Us.

[Demsrule86]

31. I put the wrong figures in and have corrected...many of those votes were passing with

GOP majorities and we need him for the numbers...look at other red state Senators...we lose them and we will never have a majority ...reality bites. Without a Senate majority, we will never confirm any SCOTUS nominee. That is a fact.

[angrychair]

61. No, you misunderstood the number

He votes with trump and with republicans 61% of the time.

Meaning he only votes with Dems 39% of the time.

Sorry, I don’t believe that Democrats cannot win in the South or rust belt. I’m not willing to sacrifice women, people of color or LGBTQ to the republican hate machine for a person that will votecwith us 30% of the time.

If he votes to confirm Kavanaugh the harm he will do will long out last he political career not to mention send a clear and unambiguous message that women don’t matter and his vote will be used to beat up Democrats for years by muddling our message and brand.

Either he believes Dr. Ford or he doesn’t. His vote will tell me everything I need to know about him.

[Demsrule86]

82. The point is he saved the ACA by voting to keep it...it would have gone down otherwise.

I'll take 61% since Trump has done shit legislatively...relying on executive orders...Manchin only voted with Trump on important matters (only a few)when the votes were not there or when it was going to pass no matter what...he also voted against the tax cut by the way...I would never want to kick any senator out...just having the numbers in order to have a majority is reason enough to keep him...without a majority, we will never confirm a single judge or bring any legislation to the floor. That is reality. And if you look at red states;how many there are, the only way for a Democratic majority is with red state Democrats. And historically, the only majorities we have had included conservadems or moderate Democrats.

[angrychair]

95. Fall back to one of my favorite sayings

Compromise is great as long as you are not the one being compromised.


In the end my opinion isn’t going to effect a a single vote in West Virginia.


When we as a Party are ok with Democrats in Congress voting to approve a gang raping drunk to the Supreme Court, for any reason, we are losing sight of who we are as a Party.

[angrychair]

65. Doug Jones

Is voting “No” he is arguably in the reddest state in the union.

Just sayin...

[Hortensis]

70. No. Of course not. We're not damned trumpsters.

We're neither that incredibly stupid or that stupidly hateful.

And we know that if Kavanaugh weren't on the court another hard-core conservative would be.

[ProudLib72]

5. Yes.

If Manchin does anything other than vote no on this, he is not a Dem. I do not give a shit what anyone else on DU says about him being from a red state and having to be careful. This is the single most important vote of all time, and he'd better damned well vote not to confirm.

[BigmanPigman]

8. Yeah, I'm with you on this one!

[ProudLib72]

43. PB, we cannot try and play the long game anymore

We know what Rump and the Senate have done is just under 2 years. Who knows what they will be capable of doing with a stacked SCOTUS. There is purity, and then there is common sense. I know a lot of posters disagree with me, but to me this is beyond anything we have so far faced.

[MyOwnPeace]

14. I'm with you too.............

there comes a time when you have to stand up and proclaim what you believe is right - no matter what!

This is NOT the time to wait to fight another day - the fight is NOW!!!!!!!!

If he can't find a way to deliver that message to his own state then he is not worthy of the seat.

[Volaris]

32. Agreed his job is to LEAD.

His job is to rep his STATE to the Federal Govt, and occasionally that means telling the people who elected him THAT THEYRE WRONG. He SHOULD be telling them that from the position of the Democratic Party Platform, and they should be ok with that AS HES A DEMOCRAT AND THEY ELECTED HIM.

If he doesn't have the chops to do that simple thing, he should quit and fucking go fishing or something.

[MyOwnPeace]

50. Yep!

"he should quit and fucking go fishing or something."

[melman]

21. Agreed

Anyone who says otherwise is not to be taken seriously.

[onecaliberal]

24. If he cannot stand with his party on the most important votes like these, he's not a Dem.

[blueinredohio]

40. Agreed

[catbyte]

79. +1000

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

59. Abso-fuckin-lutely!!

[skylucy]

6. No.

[yardwork]

7. Yes.

[Ccarmona]

9. No, He's Schumer's Ticket to Becoming the Majority Leader n/t

[still_one]

15. People are so dense sometimes, and don't understand that NUMBERS matter. They determine who

is the majority party, and it is the majority party that controls the agenda


These divisionary posts are full of it

[melman]

30. No

It's not dense to have principles. Fuck no. There is NO excuse to vote yes on Kavanaugh. None.

[Demsrule86]

33. Sure all those 'principled' voters who turned up their noses at Gore and later Clinton

really helped us (sarcasm)...if we don't win the GOP gets to inflict their agenda on us...fuck pointless principles...Manchin will only vote for Kavanaugh if he has a GOP majority. Many need to look at the Senate and face reality, we will never have a majority without conservadems. That is the truth.

[still_one]

38. Really. This is esstially what Jill Stein, Susan Sarandon, and those other self-identified

progressives did when they refused to vote for the Democratic nominee.

So anyone who has principle I am sure would agree that those self-identified progressives who refused to vote for the Democratic nominee should all be told to go F**K THEMSELVES, because obviously they did NOT give a damn about the SC, women's rights, civil rights, the environment, etc. etc. etc., because if they did they would have voted for the DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE in 2016

Good point, thanks

[Codeine]

74. If voting No won't help

and might even place a Senator in electoral jeopardy then there is an excuse. Why lose a Senator for a strictly symbolic vote?

OTOH, if it’s going to tilt the vote in your favor then you force that Senator to support your caucus and take the consequences.

[Bettie]

85. Numbers versus principle

are we to be a party with no principles, no values? Is that who we are?

If Ted Cruz said "I'm a Democrat now!" and continued to hold the same vile views he does, would we all be expected to rally behind him ?

[still_one]

90. That is the same BS those self-identified progressives who refused to vote for the Democratic

nominee in the 2016 said, when they setup the LIE and false equivalency of the Democratic nominee being worse the trump, or that there is no difference between the Democrats and republicans, and not only did that help put us where we are now, but Civil Rights, Women's Rights, Worker's Rights, environmental rights, etc. etc. etc. are now at risk because of that garbage.

Your scenario is nonesense. Manchin is NOT Cruz, and Cruz is not becoming a Democrat. Manchin voted for the ACA, and without that vote millions would not have healthcare coverage because of the ACA, which is now in danger of being overturned because just enough of those so-called progressive purists decided not to vote for the Democratic nominee by either voting third party or not voting.

Those damn "establishment Democrats" like LBJ who gave us Medicare, Medicaid, the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, or those damn "establishment Democrats" like Bill Clinton who gave us Supreme Court Justices like Rose Bird.


A major reason why we lost two SC justices is because just enough of the self-identified progress lied and convinced enough naive people that there was no difference between the two parties.


In every one of those critical swing states, the Democratic nominee lost by less than 1%. In each one of those states Jill Stein received 1% of the vote.


Everyone of the Democrats running for Senate in those critical swing states lost to the establishment, incumbent, republican, and those Democrats were progressive by any standard, but in the minds of just enough of these so-called self-identified progressive purists, they pushed the false equivlency lie to convicne enough people that the Supreme Court didn't matter, and "they were tired of voting for the lesser of the two evils", which was bullshit.


Obviously, some don't subscribe to the Howard Dean 50-state strategy

[Bettie]

107. And if Kavenaugh gets on the supreme court

the ACA, civil rights, women's rights, marriage rights for LGBT+, minimum wage, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and pretty much everything else that doesn't solely benefit rich, white men are GONE.

So, yeah, I guess principles are outdated and Manchin is a rich, white man, so none of this will affect him personally, so who really cares, right?

I voted for Clinton. I have always voted for the Dem nominee, but I still believe that there should be some lines that Dems should not cross...being in favor of putting a probable rapist on the highest court is one of those lines.

[still_one]

112. The answer to your question isn't taking punitive action against a Democrat AFTER he has been

elected by the people in his state, but challenging that Democrat with opponents in the primaries


It is counterproductive after the fact, and it would not be to our advantage to effectively encourage him to switch parties, and lose the potential for a Senate majority in the midterms where if we were able to get the majority in the Senate that would be a game changer, and at a minimum stop the draconian policies now being imposed

[Bettie]

115. People keep saying over and over that we CAN'T challenge

sitting congresscritters in primaries.

Look at the level of rage against newcomers who have won primaries against incumbents around here.

So, we're not to challenge incumbents, as long as they vote with Dems at least 1% of the time.

We're not to say that sitting congresscritters should vote with the party because "numbers".

We're not to ask for there to be lines that shouldn't be crossed, because "numbers".

We're not to ask for any sitting congresscritter to have any sort of loyalty to party or values, because "numbers".

So, ultimately the message is just sit down and shut up and watch as our society is dismantled with the help of some members of our party.

Sounds awesome!

And yet, I'll still vote straight ticket Dem because there is no other viable option.

[still_one]

119. I don't care what people say, that is the way change is done in our political system. I will

provide an example. Dan Lipinski, an incumbent Democratic representative in Illinois, who is even worse than Manchin, was challenged by a progressive Democrat, Marie Newman. In fact Newman would have actually won if that contest wasn't an open primary, but unfortunately republicans in that district crossed over in mass to vote for Lipinski, because believe or not, the republican party in that district nominated a neo-Nazi, which I guess was even too much for those republicans, so they voted in the Democratic primary instead of there own.


My point being it can be done, and Newman almost did unseat the incumbent, but it usually takes time

[JI7]

10. what if democrats don't take the senate ?

[Volaris]

35. Then the impeachment hearings in the Dem House will have to uncover such TREASON

that even a gop Senate won't risk getting unelected for the sake of that Orange Traitor.

I ain't scared.
he can vote no on Kav or he can get the fuck out. The man's a rapist.

[bearsfootball516]

11. No. The only way he votes yes is if Democrats already know he's getting 51 votes.

In that case, he's just saving his skin.

[LandOfHopeAndDreams]

28. He Will Lose, And People Like Myself Won't Care

If he loses, and we lose the Senate as a result, I won't care. If he really thinks voting for a Rapist will save his seat, he's mistaken. It will COST HIM IT.

[Demsrule86]

37. Really? well when they manage to repeal all healthcare and make the age of social security 70

means test Medicare and possibly put back pre-existing, you may find the conservadems weren't so bad.

[LandOfHopeAndDreams]

39. And When The Supreme Court Overturns Healthcare & Abortion

I will remember that Manchin was the only Democrat who had voted for him.

[Codeine]

77. His vote won't change anything.

Your position is silly. Kavanaugh is a monster, but Manchin’s vote won’t make any difference in the end. Sometimes you need to cover political asses.

[Codeine]

76. It won't cost just him though, will it?

You’d throw a way a shot at a Senate majority over a purely symbolic vote?

That’s just dumb.

[madguy2000]

12. It's a show vote if he is Yes on Kavanaugh

He'd only vote yes if the Pubs already have 51 votes. Otherwise, I'm certain he'd hang in with us. The Dem Senatorial Committee just cut advertising dollars for the next few weeks from his re-election campaign because he seems to be polling well enough that there is some confidence he will probably win again.

[still_one]

16. This is essentially what Jill Stein, Susan Sarandon, and those other self-identifed Democrats who

refused not to vote for the Democratic nominee did

So I wonder if the OP thinks we should tell those self-identified progressives who didn't vote for the Democratic nominee to go f--- themselves?

[wiley]

54. Hope so

I’m really down with that!

[still_one]

56. if we are looking for consistency

[ThoughtCriminal]

17. Oh, sure give him lots of committee assignments

The most trivial, mind stupefyingly boring, held in storage room "B", assignments.

But then, there probably some unforeseen way to abuse a seat on the "Mohair Stockpile Oversight Committee".

[obnoxiousdrunk]

18. No.

[Blue_true]

20. No. He votes with us 80%+ of the time, a repug would be zero. nt

[Me.]

23. Not Quite

“A Republican TV ad claims Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia is “fighting the Trump agenda,” even though he has voted with the president nearly 61 percent of the time.
In fact, Manchin has voted with Trump more often than any Democratic senator.”

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/08/sen-manchin-often-votes-with-trump/

How often Manchin votes in line with Trump's position
61.0%

Trump margin
Trump's share of the vote in the 2016 election in West Virginia minus Clinton's
+42.2


Predicted score
How often Manchin is expected to support Trump based on Trump's 2016 margin 93%

Difference between Manchin’s actual and predicted Trump-support scores
-32.0

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/joe-manchin-iii/

[LandOfHopeAndDreams]

41. Funny How All His Defenders Won't Comment On This

The 2nd time in this thread that has been mentioned. He votes with Drumpf 61% of the time. SIXTY ONE PERCENT!

[PoliticAverse]

104. What percentage of the time do you think a Republican would vote with Trump? n/t

[Blue_true]

44. He voted with us on the big issues, the ACA, tax cuts.

If one includes all votes, even minor ones, you can come up with a big number of votes for Trump, but a lot of Senators that are progressives would have higher numbers also. Merkely, Warren and Gillibrand are on the low end, but a lot of good progressives run higher. I prefer to see the actual votes and they dynamics of those votes, for example, if he votes for something after Schumer manages to get a compromise, like Medicaid funding and Trump approve, that technically will be counted as a vote for Trump when it should not be.

[Me.]

47. There Is A Lot Of Wiggle Room On Votes

But not this, this is a crucial, once in a lifetime vote your conscience vote. As for the red state argument, has he ever tried? I think if Beto wins that may be a game changer in that dynamic.

[Blue_true]

48. Beto and Manchin are two different politicians.

Beto takes a position because it is moral (kneeling, police shooting POC in out of proportion numbers, Legal Pot). Manchin checks the prevailing wind a lot, but does occasionally vote on morality (guns, the ACA, tax cuts, Medicaid, Ophoid addiction help). Beto is the politician that I want to see in red states, maybe we should figure out how to cultivate more like him in red states.

[Me.]

49. That Is My Point

The morality of one versus the self-interest of the other. And this vote will have implications far beyond what is expected.

[alarimer]

22. If he does that, he needs to go.

It’s a betrayal of not only the party, but all the women who voted fir him. Kavanaugh is a disgrace; his behavior alone today proves his unfit. He all but said he would make decisions based on pure partisanship, in revenge.

I have a hard time believing Manchin would vote for him at this point. It wouldn’t help him. He’s up in the polls.

[Loki Liesmith]

26. If he votes "yes" it's because he has permission from Schumer

Do you guys know how this works?

[LandOfHopeAndDreams]

29. Then Schumer Is As Bad As He Is

The Democrats have to be united. Why can't they at least do that much?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

34. arithmetic

Why can't you add and subtract?

[LandOfHopeAndDreams]

42. Why Can't He Do The Right Thing

It all comes down to the fact Kavanaugh is a POS, that should be nowhere near the Supreme Court.

That someone would vote for him, on the premise that it will help him get enough repub support to win the election, shows that he fully supports having Kavanaugh on the SC.

The right thing as a human being is to vote NO. It is well past the point where anything else is justified.

Everyone talks about how Women are going to be a factor. Well if that's the case, then he had damn well vote the right way for Women.

[Loki Liesmith]

36. If he's a yes vote it means Kavanaugh was already going to be confirmed.

It’s the party leader’s job to protect their members from tough votes. In WVA a vote against Kavanaugh is a tough vote. Schumer wont release him unless he 1) isn’t needed or 2) wouldn’t make a difference anyway.


Lord defend us from Democrats who don’t know how to play at politics.

[LandOfHopeAndDreams]

45. Why Is Doing The Right Thing So Tough?

My prediction is if he votes yes, he could lose the women's vote. And he's not going to get the repub vote, regardless of what he does.

He really wants to be the ONLY DEMOCRAT out of 49 to vote for this POS? How is that logical? Because the people of WV are a bunch of Misogynistic Assholes, so Manchin had better support the same if he is to win?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

60. Shouldn't be... what LEADERS do.

[Blue_true]

46. Exactly. A person has to know how the sausage was made. nt

[MadDAsHell]

55. Schumer won't "release him"? What is this, gd slavery?

This shit is disturbing.

[Loki Liesmith]

125. It's how this works

I don’t have the energy to explain more. Use google.

[Anon-C]

51. Yes.

[DonCoquixote]

53. this sort of vote is why we tolerate

all his weakness and coal loving. If he cannto vote on a decision that will affect us for 30 years, he does not deserve feeding.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

62. Sorry to say this... but, you're right!

[Codeine]

75. His vote won't make a difference.

If it did they’d force him to make the right choice, but Kav has the support of the GOP top to bottom.

Symbolic purity for symbolic purity’s sake is piss-poor politics. We need Red State Dems to make up the numbers and hopefully eke our a majority ASAP. We won’t get there by tossing people overboard for making political decisions when it has no consequences.

[DonCoquixote]

122. symbolic?

Look, if the GOP can intimidate the opposition into submission , they will expect more and more..There needs to be a hint of resistance, or else what was unthinkable tofay will be Yawn tomorrow.

[WillowTree]

57. I've never been a big fan of cutting off one's nose to spite their face. Doesn't seem bright to me.

[WinstonSmith4740]

58. Of course.

I never understood why Harry Reid let Joe Leiberman keep his committee chairmanship after he supported John McCain in 2008. Manchin is as close to a DINO I've seen in a while...let him prove his democratic chops before giving him any assignment.

[jalan48]

64. Voting for a Republican lifetime appointment is bullshit. If he can't explain, as a Democrat, why he

opposes Kav he needs to switch parties so a real Democrat can run.

[Codeine]

81. A "real" Democrat would lose in his state.

You need a few Conservadems to make up a potential majority. That’s just politics.

If his vote would make a difference he’d vote our way. It won’t, so who cares? Let him cover his ass at home so he keeps his seat on our side of the aisle.

[jalan48]

97. Sorry, this a lifetime appointment. I can't give him a pass on this one. How do we know he doesn't

actually like the thought of Kav on the Court?

[Codeine]

108. Immaterial.

His vote is of zero importance. Let him take the course that assists him most.

[jalan48]

114. Who then, represents the Democrats in WVA who oppose Kav? Are both sides the same for them?

Do they even bother to vote knowing neither side will represent their beliefs?

[Tiggeroshii]

66. Yes.no excuses for voting for an accused rapist.

[SidDithers]

67. Gotta love the pre-emptive Dem bashing...nt

Sid

[alarimer]

71. West Virginians will get what they deserve.

They want to lose what little health care they have? Fine. Confirm this guy and they will get and they will deserve it. Fuck West Virginia. They can all go to hell. But I actually don’t believe that’s what they want. I’m guessing no one has really explained what he will actually do.

And next election, I’m supporting Manchin’s challenger, whoever that might be. Because he deserves to lose. No woman should ever vote for Manchin ever again, if he votes to confirm.

[rogue emissary]

72. Yes, I would support him being skipped over

For any committee chairmanships.

I can tolerate him being a piss poor Democrat. That 61% voting record with Donny is harming his state and this country.

[Codeine]

80. How is that hurting anything?

Those votes go through either way. Voting for the inevitable gets him votes back home and makes ZERO DIFFERENCE on the Senate floor.

I’m amazed by how few people understand basic political math.

[NurseJackie]

83. Pride and vanity affect one's ability to calculate accurately...

I’m amazed by how few people understand basic political math.

Pride and vanity affect one's ability to calculate accurately, and to see political realities. A desire for revenge and and settling-scores has the same effect. Put them both together, and there's no hope. I've seen/heard arguments from individuals who would prefer him gone even if it also meant not having a majority in the Senate.

(Amazing, huh? )

[melman]

92. How fortunate we are

to have those with greater wisdom explain it all to us.

[NurseJackie]

94. And don't you forget it!

melman
92. How fortunate we are
to have those with greater wisdom explain it all to us.

And don't you forget it!

[JHan]

116. lol.++

[George II]

124. It's refreshing that people recognize your greater wisdom when they see it. I appreciate that.

[Gothmog]

99. Roe v. Wade was on the ballot in 2016

It was clear to me that Roe v. Wade was on the ballot in 2016. When trump won and Kennedy retired, I knew that Roe was going to be overturned. Kavanaugh was a weak candidate who has issues including being caught in lies in 2006. Mitch McConnell recommended against Kavanaugh but trump went with this idiot due to the view on presidential power. Even if Kavanaugh is defeated, trump has a dozen other Federalist society approved nominees who will easily be confirmed.

The Demcorats have done a good job in this fight. However, Roe was dead when trump won and Kennedy retired.

I am still pissed at the sanders voters who stayed home or who voted for Stein. The SCOTUS was on the ballot. The GOP knew this and even hard core GOP types who hated trump voted for trump due to the SCOTUS. It is sad that trump won due to sanders voters staying home or voting for stein

[rogue emissary]

87. Cause he is often been counted on to vote with them and used to attack other Democrats.

He loves to speak out against Dems that are more Liberal than him.

So if they go through anyway. Why not skip those votes and make it harder on the Republicans?

I do understand the political math. I think the best of our Senators and Representatives should be given committee chairmanships.

[George II]

100. Yes, that's the practicality of the votes. On top of that, I prefer 61% to 100%....

....which is what we'd see if he didn't get elected.

The voters of West Virginia have a choice every six years, they've chosen Manchin (yes, a DEMOCRAT) over any primary opponents and over any republican opponent in the general election.

[Codeine]

73. He would vote no if it made a difference.

It won’t, so he’ll be allowed to vote yes. The politics of his home state make that the logical course of action.

The isn’t rocket science, people. You only make your members cast difficult, potentially damaging votes if it has a payoff. If your side is going to lose anyway then you protect vulnerable candidates by letting them make the politically safe decision.

The Art of the Possible.

[disillusioned73]

89. Yes..

& support a primary as well..

[grantcart]

91. Been here 6 months and stirring shit against Democrats

That was your intention wasn't it

[liberalnarb]

96. If it was me I would threaten any Democrat who considers voting to confirm with their careers.

Vote for this guy and we'll find a opponent to primary you.

[Codeine]

111. Why? That would be stupid.

Manchin can win in a state where any other Democrat would be crushed. Better to have the numbers, control the committees, and set the agendas.

[liberalnarb]

120. Not worth very much if you vote with the Rs on something this important. nt

[Codeine]

121. It. Makes. No. Difference. In. This. Case.

The dude’s all but confirmed.

The choices are pretty simple;

Manchin can vote as you would like and hurt his chances of re-election. Kavanaugh will still be confirmed.

Manchin can vote to confirm, bolster his chances of red state re-election, and Kavanaugh is confirmed.

The outcome is predetermined. Manchin’s vote harms us in no fashion but helps us keep a Democratic Senator in a state where that’s just short of miraculous. As we gain seats Manchin’s ability to survive could very well mean the difference as to who is running the show.

[liberalnarb]

123. All but confirmed?

I don't think Collins/Murkowski will vote for him at this point. He could absolutely still sink in the Senate. Manchin should vote no.

[Gothmog]

102. If we win control of the Senate in the midterms, we need every vote

Control of the Senate in the midterm is key and we can not waste any votes

[empedocles]

127. Agreed. We need all the help we can get.

The pragmatists, FDR/LBJ despite harsh democrats in opposition to them, come to mind , - get things done.

[TNLib]

106. I have mixed feelings

but regardless of political party I think any man or woman that votes to confirm Kav has no sense of conscience or just lacks common sense.

I don't think history is going to reflect well on these people.

[LisaM]

126. Of course not.

There are plenty of committees, and there's bound to be one he could be effective on.

[Tiggeroshii]

128. I think it appears clear that without an investigation the vote will fail at this point.

Two Republicans and red state dems have called for an fbi investigation before a vote. It is likely we will get the investigation.