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left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 12:30 PM Oct 2018

Suit seeks to block Trump from sending 'presidential alerts' to phones

Three New Yorkers are suing in federal court to try to halt a test scheduled for Wednesday of a system that allows President Donald Trump or any future president to send alert messages to the cellphones of all Americans.

The activists filed the suit last week in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, arguing that the system violates their free speech rights and constitutes an unconstitutional seizure of their electronic devices.

In the new lawsuit, J.B. Nicholas, Kristine Rakowsky and Liane Nikitovich contend that the system will effectively turn them into "government loudspeakers" that would allow Trump or others to disseminate propaganda.

Nicholas, Rakowsky and Nikitovich accuse Trump of disseminating "weaponized disinformation" on Twitter and say they "don't wish to receive text messages, or messages of any kind, on any topic or subject, from ... Trump."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/01/trump-presidential-alerts-to-phones-857287

41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Suit seeks to block Trump from sending 'presidential alerts' to phones (Original Post) left-of-center2012 Oct 2018 OP
a malignant narcissist's wet dream.. Thomas Hurt Oct 2018 #1
A misdirected effort. Blue_true Oct 2018 #2
Not sure how it paints his opposition as being intolerant Merlot Oct 2018 #9
It paints his opposition as being appropriate. No one should tolerate unconstitutional, unlimited ancianita Oct 2018 #22
It's not Unconstitutional...it's legislation that President Obama signed. brooklynite Oct 2018 #31
Previously tested, but not nationally, all at once. And I don't care that it's "perfectly legal." ancianita Oct 2018 #32
No I don't want any fucking text from trump! It is my right to ignore him if I want. wasupaloopa Oct 2018 #28
Thanks to these 3. They say in court, what we all say. Bfd Oct 2018 #3
The development was well intended, but no one expected Trump to be the person accessing... hlthe2b Oct 2018 #4
Can I block them on my phone? HopeAgain Oct 2018 #5
Don't think so. Va Lefty Oct 2018 #6
Not on mine zipplewrath Oct 2018 #11
Since this involves use of a special computer system that has to be logged into to send the message BumRushDaShow Oct 2018 #7
I keep trying to explain this to people, and I get nowhere. eggplant Oct 2018 #25
Yeah - I have posted this multiple times too BumRushDaShow Oct 2018 #35
Should they be called Trumps, or Boofs? Xipe Totec Oct 2018 #8
Whose interest does this alert serve? LuckyLib Oct 2018 #10
They really shouldn't call it a "Presidential Alert" marylandblue Oct 2018 #12
I agree wholeheartedly. forgotmylogin Oct 2018 #24
Then why is his name attached to it. In multiple media sources. ancianita Oct 2018 #33
Obama started the program marylandblue Oct 2018 #34
Not pertinent. Obama's name wasn't attached to the tests, either. Trump's is. I'm asking why. ancianita Oct 2018 #36
It's called a "Presidential Alert" not a "Trump Alert" marylandblue Oct 2018 #37
Great. I'm so relieved. What could possibly go wrong with an administration full of the best people. ancianita Oct 2018 #38
I don't think the presidential alerts are what ... Whiskeytide Oct 2018 #13
No your are correct. See post #35 BumRushDaShow Oct 2018 #39
This is silly. The President doesn't send out these alerts. Autumn Oct 2018 #14
But I think we should make sure Trump *can't* use it for propaganda. n/t trotsky Oct 2018 #15
Does Trump use the Amber alerts or weather warnings for propaganda? No. Autumn Oct 2018 #16
"That's not how these things work." trotsky Oct 2018 #17
Trump is an expert at shooting himself in the foot. Blue_true Oct 2018 #21
WTF good is this supposed to do? world wide wally Oct 2018 #18
is it being sent from his personal cell phone? dweller Oct 2018 #19
Wait this shit is fucking real??? Tiggeroshii Oct 2018 #20
NO to the "strong man" underlying message of this test eleny Oct 2018 #23
"Presidential Alert. Test. No collusion!" Va Lefty Oct 2018 #26
Emperor 45 Amimnoch Oct 2018 #27
Among the nice things about having only a dumb phone PoindexterOglethorpe Oct 2018 #29
Trump wants this in place in time to start the new civil war LiberalLovinLug Oct 2018 #30
I wonder bdamomma Oct 2018 #40
It will probably backfire on Trump. A lot of people are kerry-is-my-prez Oct 2018 #41

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
2. A misdirected effort.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 12:39 PM
Oct 2018

The lawsuit helps Trump's image and paints his opposition as being intolerant. My feeling is Trump can't help but mess things up. Let him send out a foolish alert then get ridiculed for it, that way only he loses.

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
9. Not sure how it paints his opposition as being intolerant
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 12:52 PM
Oct 2018

Letting any president send alerts directly to our phones is a dangerous precident.

ancianita

(36,132 posts)
22. It paints his opposition as being appropriate. No one should tolerate unconstitutional, unlimited
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 02:22 PM
Oct 2018

executive power over digital communications.

ancianita

(36,132 posts)
32. Previously tested, but not nationally, all at once. And I don't care that it's "perfectly legal."
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 04:04 PM
Oct 2018

Not even the people who voted for this president would trust his use of it.

Who would ever trust this cry-wolf president who'd likely repeat something like he did when FEMA put out alerts about Puerto Rico:

*Cellphone EMS alert goes off at 4:30am

******WHY WONT JEFF SESSIONS INVESTIGATE THE LEAKERS. NO ONE DIED IN PUERTO RICO. WITCH HUNT*******


If it's abused -- even though it claims multiple safeguards -- its constitutionality will be tested.
 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
28. No I don't want any fucking text from trump! It is my right to ignore him if I want.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 03:05 PM
Oct 2018

Paint me anyway you want it really doesn't matter.

 

Bfd

(1,406 posts)
3. Thanks to these 3. They say in court, what we all say.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 12:39 PM
Oct 2018

I hope they win. It would set a precedent for massive lawsuits against this extreme desire by trump to have unlimited power.

hlthe2b

(102,357 posts)
4. The development was well intended, but no one expected Trump to be the person accessing...
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 12:40 PM
Oct 2018

I think they need to block it from his use until we manage to restore some respect and trust in the Presidency, our National Institutions and who will be able to use it.

Forward the message to local authorities, who already send reverse 911 and emergency texts (e.g., Amber ALerts) and who continue to hold some trust in their communities.

Va Lefty

(6,252 posts)
6. Don't think so.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 12:46 PM
Oct 2018

Also, turning off phone during message just means you get it when you turn your phone back on.

BumRushDaShow

(129,433 posts)
7. Since this involves use of a special computer system that has to be logged into to send the message
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 12:48 PM
Oct 2018

and unless he is doing a photo-op of "sending" a message within that system (it wouldn't be coming as a "tweet" from his phone), then someone else is going to be doing it from the "Presidential Message" account (or whatever it is named within the system).

eggplant

(3,913 posts)
25. I keep trying to explain this to people, and I get nowhere.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 02:37 PM
Oct 2018

Everyone seems to think this means he can just tweet to everyone's phone whenever he feels like it. But this is really no different that emergency broadcast messages on tv and radio, just a different medium. You can't disable those either, and even trump hasn't tried to abuse that service either.

I think the problem is that it is referred to as Presidential Alerts, rather than something less sinister (!), like National Emergency Alerts. And I do think that a system like this is actually necessary, despite the unfounded fear mongering.

BumRushDaShow

(129,433 posts)
35. Yeah - I have posted this multiple times too
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 04:26 PM
Oct 2018

I just keep posting the diagram. I also reminded folks about the Hawai'i false alarm emergency alert about an incoming ballistic missle -



<...>

The system has come under growing scrutiny in recent months, with public safety officials complaining that it requires upgrades on several fronts. Critics say alerts are often sent too widely, sowing fear among people unlikely to be affected by the threat in question. There have also been calls for the alerts to be sent in languages other than English. The communications commission has approved some changes, but they will not take effect until next year.

Last month, officials from Harris County, Texas, met with commission officials about their frustration over how, during Hurricane Harvey, they could not pinpoint alerts to area residents most likely to be affected by the storm without alarming a broader swath of the county.

The commission, which sets the technical standards for the alerts, is under pressure to update its rules to force wireless carriers and phone makers to work together to ensure that the system is more effective. Last week, Pai announced a proposal to update the alert system to improve its location-targeting ability.

The inability to target more precisely the areas facing potential threats has deterred some public safety officials from issuing alerts. Sens. Kamala Harris and Dianne Feinstein, both D-Calif., wrote to Pai in October that state residents had not gotten emergency alerts to leave their homes as wildfires raged nearby because of substandard location-targeting and other technical problems. “These emergency services are caught in a bind between notifying individuals in imminent danger and risking mass panic,” the senators wrote in the letter.

<...>

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/01/13/nyt/fcc-to-probe-hawaiis-emergency-notification-misfire/


Some tech sites took a dive into the system -











The disastrous false alarm issued by Hawaii over the weekend has raised concerns about what safeguards the state had in place. The state-wide alert, which told people a ballistic missile was about to hit, terrified residents and visitors, as the state scrambled for 38 minutes to issue a correction.

Officials soon released a timeline of events, saying the state’s software contained a menu option that allowed a live alert to be sent in place of a test, a problem that several people quickly categorized as a design failure. The state released an image that showed a list with options for test and live alerts next to each other. Officials later said the image did not accurately portray the system, and released what it characterized as a “representation” of the system, but said that it could not share an actual screenshot.

While the state has not named its software provider, evidence suggests it is an Idaho-based company called AlertSense, a FEMA-approved company that says it works with clients in states around the country. The audio version of the alert broadcast in Hawaii was posted on the company’s website. The first image released by Hawaii also appears similar to example software provided to The Verge by AlertSense. For instance, the word “templates” appears above the alert options in AlertSense’s software, and is barely visible in the first image issued by the state. (A local TV station in Hawaii independently came to the same conclusion.) The Verge’s review of the program suggests that functionally there is only a one-click difference between sending a test and a live alert.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/18/16905512/hawaii-missile-software-false-alarm-emergency-alert


And thankfully, the error and how it happened when using the software, forced a review of how the warning system application was designed and how it should be upgraded to help avoid this. I believe upgrades have already occurred.

If he were technically savvy, there could be concern about use (or misuse) of this tool. And he is known to micromanage things. But something like this is beyond the attention span.

LuckyLib

(6,819 posts)
10. Whose interest does this alert serve?
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 12:54 PM
Oct 2018

Oh, yeah. Bringing us all in line and getting gubmint out of our lives!

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
12. They really shouldn't call it a "Presidential Alert"
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 01:03 PM
Oct 2018

It's actually a National Emergency Alert. It really has nothing to do with Trump. It's more like for a 9/11 type terrorist attack or worse.

forgotmylogin

(7,530 posts)
24. I agree wholeheartedly.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 02:34 PM
Oct 2018

It shouldn't be a "Presidential" alert system. It should be used in cases of national emergency, not at the President's whim. Not that the president couldn't use it for an emergency, but it should be whoever can *get there* first, not specifically any one person.

The president has Twitter for his random whim.

ancianita

(36,132 posts)
38. Great. I'm so relieved. What could possibly go wrong with an administration full of the best people.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 04:39 PM
Oct 2018

Whiskeytide

(4,462 posts)
13. I don't think the presidential alerts are what ...
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 01:03 PM
Oct 2018

... some think they are. I read a couple of stories on it a few weeks back before the canceled test. Trump doesn't send you messages from his phone. The National Emergency apparatus/departments do. Trump merely has some say so on whether or not one is sent ... i.e. - whether whatever the emergency is rates a national notice.

I already get tornado warnings and Amber Alerts on my phone. I really don't see this as much different - just with a larger, national scope.

Now, I could be wrong. I haven't really researched it deeply. If the one this week says "This is a test. And btw, No Collusion". I'll eat my words.

BumRushDaShow

(129,433 posts)
39. No your are correct. See post #35
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 04:41 PM
Oct 2018
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211222022#post35

The difference with the category "Presidential Alert" is that it is meant to be sent "nationally" - to all equipment that can receive the signal - tv/radio/cell phone nationwide.... Whereas just about every other alert is targeted for local areas.

One of the complaints I have read is that the emergency managers in many states and municipalities are looking to have finer granularity for micro-targeting alerts so that only certain "areas" get the message - say to evacuate due to a wildfire or flood, which might not need to be sent to everyone in a county, or even to locations a few miles away, who would not be impacted by the event. This would be in lieu of requiring far too many emergency personnel to drive through flooded or burning areas with bullhorns on their vehicles telling people to evacuate.

I know the NWS has in the past few years, been able to implement an upgrade where they can select "polygon-shaped" areas for creating their warnings (e.g., "tornado warning", "flash flood warning", etc), some of which are actually sent out through the EAS, and which gives them the option to "warn" a smaller geographic area than in the past.

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
16. Does Trump use the Amber alerts or weather warnings for propaganda? No.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 01:21 PM
Oct 2018

That's not how these things work.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
17. "That's not how these things work."
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 01:23 PM
Oct 2018

I used to think that about a lot of things, until Trump came along.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
21. Trump is an expert at shooting himself in the foot.
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 02:21 PM
Oct 2018

When stupidity (I will vote my conscience, there is no difference between Hillary and Trump) and the Russians aren't helping him, he screws up. I welcome him sending an alert and making himself look like an idiot. Suing to stop him from blowing some toe digits off makes those cheering on the suit feel good, but accomplished absolutely nothing.

dweller

(23,661 posts)
19. is it being sent from his personal cell phone?
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 01:39 PM
Oct 2018

no ... so why even call it a presidential alert?

call it a "national security emergency alert" or something

eleny

(46,166 posts)
23. NO to the "strong man" underlying message of this test
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 02:22 PM
Oct 2018

He'll use it to promote his "wonder of me" bull crap.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,895 posts)
29. Among the nice things about having only a dumb phone
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 03:36 PM
Oct 2018

is that I can't get alerts.

It can be VERY annoying to be with someone with a smart phone who keeps on getting alert after alert because of, say, bad weather. Especially when you can look out the window and see that the weather is bad.

And if you live in the midwest, you can generally count on the tornado sirens to go off when needed.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,176 posts)
30. Trump wants this in place in time to start the new civil war
Tue Oct 2, 2018, 03:47 PM
Oct 2018

When, not if, Mueller charges come down, and it looks inevitable that congress will be forced to impeach, he will use it to rally his new confederate army.

kerry-is-my-prez

(8,133 posts)
41. It will probably backfire on Trump. A lot of people are
Thu Oct 4, 2018, 03:51 PM
Oct 2018

probably pissed they were interrupted at work with it. I was in a therapy session with one of my clients when it went off, wasting several minutes of our time. Luckily, this person is not having to pay by the hour like some people do and I wasn’t constrained by a time limit. Usually, it’s 30 min. My client was a bit freaked out.

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