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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSuit seeks to block Trump from sending 'presidential alerts' to phones
Three New Yorkers are suing in federal court to try to halt a test scheduled for Wednesday of a system that allows President Donald Trump or any future president to send alert messages to the cellphones of all Americans.
The activists filed the suit last week in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, arguing that the system violates their free speech rights and constitutes an unconstitutional seizure of their electronic devices.
In the new lawsuit, J.B. Nicholas, Kristine Rakowsky and Liane Nikitovich contend that the system will effectively turn them into "government loudspeakers" that would allow Trump or others to disseminate propaganda.
Nicholas, Rakowsky and Nikitovich accuse Trump of disseminating "weaponized disinformation" on Twitter and say they "don't wish to receive text messages, or messages of any kind, on any topic or subject, from ... Trump."
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/01/trump-presidential-alerts-to-phones-857287
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The lawsuit helps Trump's image and paints his opposition as being intolerant. My feeling is Trump can't help but mess things up. Let him send out a foolish alert then get ridiculed for it, that way only he loses.
Merlot
(9,696 posts)Letting any president send alerts directly to our phones is a dangerous precident.
ancianita
(36,132 posts)executive power over digital communications.
brooklynite
(94,725 posts)ancianita
(36,132 posts)Not even the people who voted for this president would trust his use of it.
Who would ever trust this cry-wolf president who'd likely repeat something like he did when FEMA put out alerts about Puerto Rico:
******WHY WONT JEFF SESSIONS INVESTIGATE THE LEAKERS. NO ONE DIED IN PUERTO RICO. WITCH HUNT*******
If it's abused -- even though it claims multiple safeguards -- its constitutionality will be tested.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)Paint me anyway you want it really doesn't matter.
Bfd
(1,406 posts)I hope they win. It would set a precedent for massive lawsuits against this extreme desire by trump to have unlimited power.
hlthe2b
(102,357 posts)I think they need to block it from his use until we manage to restore some respect and trust in the Presidency, our National Institutions and who will be able to use it.
Forward the message to local authorities, who already send reverse 911 and emergency texts (e.g., Amber ALerts) and who continue to hold some trust in their communities.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)If so, I intend to do so
Va Lefty
(6,252 posts)Also, turning off phone during message just means you get it when you turn your phone back on.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)I've turned off all the alerts. This is the only one I can't.
BumRushDaShow
(129,433 posts)and unless he is doing a photo-op of "sending" a message within that system (it wouldn't be coming as a "tweet" from his phone), then someone else is going to be doing it from the "Presidential Message" account (or whatever it is named within the system).
eggplant
(3,913 posts)Everyone seems to think this means he can just tweet to everyone's phone whenever he feels like it. But this is really no different that emergency broadcast messages on tv and radio, just a different medium. You can't disable those either, and even trump hasn't tried to abuse that service either.
I think the problem is that it is referred to as Presidential Alerts, rather than something less sinister (!), like National Emergency Alerts. And I do think that a system like this is actually necessary, despite the unfounded fear mongering.
BumRushDaShow
(129,433 posts)I just keep posting the diagram. I also reminded folks about the Hawai'i false alarm emergency alert about an incoming ballistic missle -
<...>
The system has come under growing scrutiny in recent months, with public safety officials complaining that it requires upgrades on several fronts. Critics say alerts are often sent too widely, sowing fear among people unlikely to be affected by the threat in question. There have also been calls for the alerts to be sent in languages other than English. The communications commission has approved some changes, but they will not take effect until next year.
Last month, officials from Harris County, Texas, met with commission officials about their frustration over how, during Hurricane Harvey, they could not pinpoint alerts to area residents most likely to be affected by the storm without alarming a broader swath of the county.
The commission, which sets the technical standards for the alerts, is under pressure to update its rules to force wireless carriers and phone makers to work together to ensure that the system is more effective. Last week, Pai announced a proposal to update the alert system to improve its location-targeting ability.
The inability to target more precisely the areas facing potential threats has deterred some public safety officials from issuing alerts. Sens. Kamala Harris and Dianne Feinstein, both D-Calif., wrote to Pai in October that state residents had not gotten emergency alerts to leave their homes as wildfires raged nearby because of substandard location-targeting and other technical problems. These emergency services are caught in a bind between notifying individuals in imminent danger and risking mass panic, the senators wrote in the letter.
<...>
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/01/13/nyt/fcc-to-probe-hawaiis-emergency-notification-misfire/
Some tech sites took a dive into the system -
The disastrous false alarm issued by Hawaii over the weekend has raised concerns about what safeguards the state had in place. The state-wide alert, which told people a ballistic missile was about to hit, terrified residents and visitors, as the state scrambled for 38 minutes to issue a correction.
Officials soon released a timeline of events, saying the states software contained a menu option that allowed a live alert to be sent in place of a test, a problem that several people quickly categorized as a design failure. The state released an image that showed a list with options for test and live alerts next to each other. Officials later said the image did not accurately portray the system, and released what it characterized as a representation of the system, but said that it could not share an actual screenshot.
While the state has not named its software provider, evidence suggests it is an Idaho-based company called AlertSense, a FEMA-approved company that says it works with clients in states around the country. The audio version of the alert broadcast in Hawaii was posted on the companys website. The first image released by Hawaii also appears similar to example software provided to The Verge by AlertSense. For instance, the word templates appears above the alert options in AlertSenses software, and is barely visible in the first image issued by the state. (A local TV station in Hawaii independently came to the same conclusion.) The Verges review of the program suggests that functionally there is only a one-click difference between sending a test and a live alert.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/18/16905512/hawaii-missile-software-false-alarm-emergency-alert
And thankfully, the error and how it happened when using the software, forced a review of how the warning system application was designed and how it should be upgraded to help avoid this. I believe upgrades have already occurred.
If he were technically savvy, there could be concern about use (or misuse) of this tool. And he is known to micromanage things. But something like this is beyond the attention span.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)LuckyLib
(6,819 posts)Oh, yeah. Bringing us all in line and getting gubmint out of our lives!
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)It's actually a National Emergency Alert. It really has nothing to do with Trump. It's more like for a 9/11 type terrorist attack or worse.
forgotmylogin
(7,530 posts)It shouldn't be a "Presidential" alert system. It should be used in cases of national emergency, not at the President's whim. Not that the president couldn't use it for an emergency, but it should be whoever can *get there* first, not specifically any one person.
The president has Twitter for his random whim.
ancianita
(36,132 posts)marylandblue
(12,344 posts)He never imagined who the President following him would be.
ancianita
(36,132 posts)marylandblue
(12,344 posts)AFAIK It won't have Trump's name on it.
ancianita
(36,132 posts)Whiskeytide
(4,462 posts)... some think they are. I read a couple of stories on it a few weeks back before the canceled test. Trump doesn't send you messages from his phone. The National Emergency apparatus/departments do. Trump merely has some say so on whether or not one is sent ... i.e. - whether whatever the emergency is rates a national notice.
I already get tornado warnings and Amber Alerts on my phone. I really don't see this as much different - just with a larger, national scope.
Now, I could be wrong. I haven't really researched it deeply. If the one this week says "This is a test. And btw, No Collusion". I'll eat my words.
BumRushDaShow
(129,433 posts)The difference with the category "Presidential Alert" is that it is meant to be sent "nationally" - to all equipment that can receive the signal - tv/radio/cell phone nationwide.... Whereas just about every other alert is targeted for local areas.
One of the complaints I have read is that the emergency managers in many states and municipalities are looking to have finer granularity for micro-targeting alerts so that only certain "areas" get the message - say to evacuate due to a wildfire or flood, which might not need to be sent to everyone in a county, or even to locations a few miles away, who would not be impacted by the event. This would be in lieu of requiring far too many emergency personnel to drive through flooded or burning areas with bullhorns on their vehicles telling people to evacuate.
I know the NWS has in the past few years, been able to implement an upgrade where they can select "polygon-shaped" areas for creating their warnings (e.g., "tornado warning", "flash flood warning", etc), some of which are actually sent out through the EAS, and which gives them the option to "warn" a smaller geographic area than in the past.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)This was a good thing Obama did.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)That's not how these things work.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)I used to think that about a lot of things, until Trump came along.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)When stupidity (I will vote my conscience, there is no difference between Hillary and Trump) and the Russians aren't helping him, he screws up. I welcome him sending an alert and making himself look like an idiot. Suing to stop him from blowing some toe digits off makes those cheering on the suit feel good, but accomplished absolutely nothing.
world wide wally
(21,754 posts)He will most likely be lying anyway
dweller
(23,661 posts)no ... so why even call it a presidential alert?
call it a "national security emergency alert" or something
Tiggeroshii
(11,088 posts)I thought it was a joke the many times ive seen it on the internets.
eleny
(46,166 posts)He'll use it to promote his "wonder of me" bull crap.
Va Lefty
(6,252 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,895 posts)is that I can't get alerts.
It can be VERY annoying to be with someone with a smart phone who keeps on getting alert after alert because of, say, bad weather. Especially when you can look out the window and see that the weather is bad.
And if you live in the midwest, you can generally count on the tornado sirens to go off when needed.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,176 posts)When, not if, Mueller charges come down, and it looks inevitable that congress will be forced to impeach, he will use it to rally his new confederate army.
bdamomma
(63,921 posts)if Putin does this? tRump a fucking wanna be dictator.
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)probably pissed they were interrupted at work with it. I was in a therapy session with one of my clients when it went off, wasting several minutes of our time. Luckily, this person is not having to pay by the hour like some people do and I wasnt constrained by a time limit. Usually, its 30 min. My client was a bit freaked out.