So what exactly did we get for pressuring Franken to resign?

[standingtall]

Remind me again. At least one of the two republican women senators if not both of them are on the brink of confirming Kavanaugh who's accusations are far worse than Frankens after they joined in with the majority of Democratic senators in calling for Franken to resign.

[Autumn]

1. The high road?

For all the good that does us.

[LandOfHopeAndDreams]

3. We Go High, They Go To The White House, Senate & Supreme Court

[Autumn]

6. Nailed that.

[FiveGoodMen]

14. Absolutely correct (and awful)

[Power 2 the People]

28. +1000

OMG Yes!

[MadDAsHell]

37. In retrospect, one of the worst quotes ever.

I get what First Lady Obama was trying to say/do there, but it fell flat. That is not the world we live in.

[leftstreet]

51. +1

[lunamagica]

52. Exactly

[zentrum]

93. Bingo.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

30. We take the high road, right off a cliff.

[Autumn]

33. It does seem that way.

[jrthin]

90. Bingo!!! nt

[Raster]

2. Not. A. Fucking. Thing.

[ananda]

49. *This*

..

[athena]

4. We showed we're not hypocrites.

We showed we don't have a separate set of criteria for Republicans and for Democrats.

I, as a woman, am glad Franken is gone. I've read a lot of articles at the time, and there was more than enough evidence that he abused his position to sexually humiliate women. If the Democratic Party had made excuses for him, they would have lost me. Half the country may hate women, but the Democratic Party, at least, values women.

[brush]

48. You're uninformed on the matter. Research Roger Stone, Leeann Tweeden and Hannity...

and find out how they conspired for Al Franken "to have his time in the barrel."

Ambitious but gullible Gillebrand fell for the repug hit job on one of our most effective senators and was off to the races with her "crusade", which btw, got rid of a potential 2020 rival while at the same time elevated her profile.

[athena]

53. Is Tina Dupuy a Republican as well?

It was this article that convinced me:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/i-believe-frankens-accusers-because-he-groped-me-too/547691/

D.C. was decked out and packed in for the inauguration of a young and popular new president. The town was buzzing with optimism, and one of the many events on our list was a swanky Media Matters party with Democratic notables everywhere. Then I saw Al Franken. I only bug celebrities for pictures when it’ll make my foster mom happy. She loves Franken, so I asked to get a picture with him. We posed for the shot. He immediately put his hand on my waist, grabbing a handful of flesh. I froze. Then he squeezed. At least twice.

I’d been married for two years at the time; I don’t let my husband touch me like that in public because I believe it diminishes me as a professional woman. Al Franken’s familiarity was inappropriate and unwanted. It was also quick; he knew exactly what he was doing.

It shrunk me. It’s like I was no longer a person, only ornamental. It said, “You don’t matter—and I do.” He wanted to cop a feel and he demonstrated he didn’t need my permission.

An excellent read in its entirety.

[brush]

55. Oh how terrible, he touched her luv handle. Give me a break.

She asked for him to posed with her and was allegedly upset when he put his arm around her waist, which is how most people pose.

Ever wonder if dirty trickster Stone contacted her as he did Tweeden?

[athena]

58. So a woman can't tell a sexual squeeze from an arm around her waist.

In other words, if a man wants to put a woman in her place, all he needs to do is give her a squeeze on the waist, and then claim he was just posing for a photograph.

I've been squeezed this way before. The man came up behind me and squeezed me on both sides of my waist. He acted like I was in his way and he was just trying to get around me. I was, indeed, in his way, but he could have just touched me on the outside of one shoulder, or just said "Excuse me." He had previously bullied me and yelled at me in public over something I don't remember. By squeezing my waist, he was trying to establish his dominance, show me who was boss, put me in my place. I knew that there was nothing I could do. Had I complained, everyone would have thought I was being "hysterical". Thanks for showing that you would have sided with him.

It may not technically be a crime, but I don't want a guy who treats a woman like that to represent me in the Senate.

[brush]

64. Oh please. Men do not get off on touching a woman's waist.

Get real.

[athena]

67. Sexual harassment is not about "getting off".

It's about power. I thought everybody knew that. This thread has shown me how overly optimistic I have been in my assumptions about Americans' level of enlightenment about sexual harassment.

[brush]

134. Ridiculous. If you think putting your arm around someone's waist to pose for a photo...

that the woman requested is sexual harassment you are sadly misinformed and we all better walk around in bubble wrap cocoons with signs saying "no photo requests so as to avoid waist groping".

And please research the Tweeden, Hannity, Stone origin of the whole Franken hit job because it's obvious you know little about how that whole thing originated.

[Lonestarblue]

107. A woman's waist is not a sexual organ.

If we define sexual assault as the touching of any female body part, however innocent, then we have lost the war already. As a professional woman working with many, many men, I cannot say how many group photos I’ve been in where people stood close together and had a hand on shoulder or waist just to fit everyone in the photo. I never once felt assaulted or concerned. Sexual assault is just that—a sexual overture and/or inappropriate touching of a breasts, genitals, or butts (just my definition and applies to the touching of men too). A woman who is embarrassed because a man touched a love handle at her waist has not suffered sexual assault.

[brush]

136. Exactly. Some on this thread need to read your post. Posing for a photo...

with a hand around a waist that touches a love handle is not sexual harassment.

[OilemFirchen]

133. Which shoulder?

Just in case...

[standingtall]

59. He put his arm around her waist at a photo-op

Last edited Thu Oct 4, 2018, 04:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Which what people do at photo-ops. This is the most outlandish of all the accusations.

[athena]

68. I didn't realize it's impossible to put an arm around a woman's waist without squeezing it.

I can't believe the apologies I'm reading here for sexual harassment.

Women are not idiots. We can tell the difference between a respectful arm around our waist and a sexual squeeze.

[standingtall]

72. The Tina Dupay accusation is absurd period

I never heard of the phrase a sexual squeeze within the context of waist.

[athena]

74. You're not a woman, are you?

I'm a woman, and her accusation does not seem absurd to me. People don't normally touch others around their waist. A squeeze there is felt very strongly because the area is ticklish. Men who squeeze (not just touch but squeeze) women in the waist know exactly what they're doing.

I explained what happened to me. I explained that when a man touched me on the waist from behind when I wasn't expecting it, I felt violated and bullied. It was a small violation, definitely not illegal, but it was a violation -- the kind of violation women are expected to tolerate with an indulgent smile. That does not make it acceptable behavior.

I used to be a great fan of Al Franken. I was as disappointed in him as I was in Weiner and in Spitzer. Just because someone is a Democrat doesn't mean they can do no wrong. We need good people as Democrats, people who respect men and women. We should stand up against bullies and sexual abusers, regardless of their political affiliation.

[trueblue2007]

80. ATHENA .... i am a woman AND ... AN ARM AROUND MY WAIST, if it was a friend OR Al Franken

when I was posing would not bother me abit. GET REAL !!!!

I see you as the only person on this thread who is going on and on about this particular situation. Why why why ??

[athena]

82. An unwanted squeeze wouldn't bother you?

By purposefully ignoring the content of my post and changing the "squeeze" to just "an arm around my waist", you are demonstrating that you cannot, in fact, defend a squeeze around your waist as perfectly acceptable.

Being the only person in a group who is bothered by something does not mean one is wrong. I am, frankly, appalled by the apologies I'm reading from both men and women about what Al Franken did. And I don't appreciate your attacking me personally over a difference of opinion.

[trueblue2007]

85. I did not attack you.

[Bluepinky]

106. I'm a woman too, and I wouldn't be offended if a celebrity squeezed my waist

during a photo opportunity. I would be thrilled that Al Franken would want his photo with me.

That being said, I would NOT want a Brett Kavanaugh or Clarence Thomas anywhere near me, squeeze or no squeeze.

I think this woman had an agenda. If she knew and approved of Al Franken’s politics, I don’t think she would have complained of sexual harassment. He has always been an advocate for women.

[lark]

109. Let me join in here.

100% no, it would not offend me. She said she was angry because she was overweight and this reminded her of that. Boo fucking hoo.
She had a problem and blamed it on someone who had nothing at all to do with it. Franken is 100% innocent IMO and was railroaded by sanctimonious folks who didn't care for the truth. Dems asked for an investigation here and should have done the same with Franken, only an ethics investigation, not FBI.

[questionseverything]

119. you have a right to feel however you want but

for 90 plus % of us a squeeze wouldn't bring a trauma

and nothing franken was accused of was worth him leaving the senate

the idea that dems have to be perfect while repubs can rape ,lie and steal is a losing strategy

[spooky3]

126. If she were offended by a squeeze on her waist, she could have said, "hey - no squeezing!" Nothing

was forcing her to pose for the photo or to remain there, i.e., it is not a workplace, and he is not her superior. Before that, if she were sensitive about any touching, she could have said, "sorry, that is too close--could we just stand next to each other?"

Different people may have legitimately different views about when a hand on the waist is inappropriate. Dupuy could have spoken up about her views.

And, note that we are accepting her statement that he squeezed her waist. An investigation could have examined the truth of that.

[brush]

139. Unwanted squeeze? You have to believe Dupuy to believe that.

[blue cat]

102. I am a woman

And it was absurd and you are embarrassing for women.

[Bettie]

112. I'm a woman too

and I am on the same page you are.

[Hekate]

114. Athena, I am a woman. Booting a talented ally like Franken was pure folly. Not even a pretense...

...of due process, for gods' sake. You want to get rid of a Democratic office holder, you better have Anthony Weiner-level evidence, not some silly posed photos from a road show skit for military servicemen.

Oh, and just to be clear, I am a sexual abuse survivor.

[delisen]

116. Actually I got squeezed around waist many times in NY-family, friends, neighbors, male and female.

Ours was a touchy, huge subculture of big families and generous hospitality. Group pictures where we all squeezed against each other to fit in the frame. I did not consider it sexual.

I certainly respect your beliefs and reactions and your total right over your own body but I I've never, as a woman, felt bullied or violated by being squeezed around the waist in a group picture situation.

[LisaL]

120. Oh for crying out loud. It's not like he just grabbed her waist for no reason.

They were posing for a photo.

[yardwork]

142. Her story is absurd. He touched my waist!!!!!

[trueblue2007]

78. the GOPigs LIED to get rid of Franken. I agree totally with you "Brush"

and like you said, Gillebrand fell for the lies.

[Merlot]

50. No one expected the Democratic Party to make excuses for him

He should have gotten the investigation he asked for. Four of his accusers were anonymous. No one accused him of doing any thing even remotely illegal.

I don't want anyone, even a repub, to loose their job based on anonymous accusations.

I had no problem with him, and wish he were still in the senate.

[HelenWheels]

79. Franken didn't do a damn thing to get pushed out of the Senate

The Repubs were afraid of his sharp mind and fearless questionings. He was set up by the Repubs and the Dem women fell for it.

[USALiberal]

125. Wow, you are totally incorrect. nt

[alarimer]

130. There was no evidence of this.

The first one was a poorly thought out joke.

[Voltaire2]

132. Yup, but many here refuse to see it.

[mythology]

5. The reason for him to resign is because mistreating women is wrong

Because it was correct thing to do. You don't do the right thing to get a reward.

But you might note that there is a large gender gap and white college educated women are trending our way.

[delisen]

32. I don't think it was the right thing and it did not benefit us.

If Al Franken were still on the judiciary the difference between his reported behavior and Kavanaugh's would have been stark.

Moreover the Trump attempt to portray men as fearful victims of false report would have no power.

[Dream Girl]

7. That was the dumbest fucking thing ever!

What did he do? Pretended to tweak a willing “victims” breast for a goofy photo? Put his arm around someone’s waist for a photo at the state fair?

[mythology]

10. Um groping multiple women is a bit more than putting his arm around one woman's waist

When you're intentionally understating what he did, you're trying to justify shitty behavior.

[brush]

141. You're uninformed. Research the Stone/Tweeden/Hannity triangle that set up the repug...

hit job on Franken's "time in the barrel". It's apparent you don't know the backstory at all.

[athena]

15. There was a lot more to it than that.

Eight women came forward. Read up on it. No woman should accept that kind of behavior.

[Charlotte Little]

26. This is why we lose elections

Purity game.

By the way, when I was 29, my woman boss put her arms around my shoulders and tried to kiss me while intoxicated. Should I go find her now and report her to her current employer and demand she be fired? She's a big wig in the advertising world. No telling how many other employees she scarred for life like me. I still quiver in fear when I even see people kiss.

Dr. Ford experienced sexual assault. Leeann Tweeden, who grabbed the asses of unexpecting soldiers and kissed them on stage without asking during the very time period she claims Frankin shoved his tongue in her mouth during the skit in which the kiss was expected and in the script, did not.

We will continue to lose if we continue the purity shit game.

[athena]

27. Thanks for minimizing sexual harrassment.

Yeah, it was just a matter of Franken trying to kiss a woman while he was intoxicated.

[delisen]

40. It is not minimizing. I have experienced the Kavanaughs and the Frankens.

The difference is massive.

[Charlotte Little]

44. You are being way to reasonable

And that is not how to play the purity shit game.

P.S. I totally agree with you and appreciate you being rational and reasonable.

[athena]

45. Read the list of accusations.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/07/al-franken-news-list-of-sexual-misconduct-allegations.html

I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways. You can't say that the women accusing Franken were making stuff up, but the women accusing Kavanaugh are not.

I choose to believe the women. Because no one does. It's so much easier to stay quiet than to come forward and be called a liar.

[Charlotte Little]

41. So

You're minimizing my ex boss' actions? I would think an attempted kiss would be worse than someone squeezing a woman's waist.

But what do I, a woman who was raped at 14 by a family friend and reported it at age 21 to my parents & the police, know about what's truly sexual harrassment or assault?

Silly me. I'll just not voice my little ol' opinion and instead watch you purists play the purity shit game...and continue to lose power and rights.

[maddiemom]

113. Well said! Welcome to DU.

[Charlotte Little]

123. Very kind of you...

...but I've been around here a long time. I just stopped posting as much after the website crashed and got hacked on election night, 2016. I still remember how my stomach hurt knowing that something was very wrong when this site went down.

[maddiemom]

145. I remember that as well.

I had been working to GOTV earlier. Came home and no DU! On the phone, one woman told me that she'd always voted for whomever her dad, and now her husband told her, No Kidding! I sure don't take women's votes for granted to be in their best interests.

[Bluepinky]

135. Haven't heard a word from these women since Franken left.

I think it was a terribly unfair set-up.

Brett Kavanaugh can drink to excess, black out, assault women and then lie about it (before the Senate judicial committee, no less), and Republicans are okay with it. Al Franken is accused of squeezing a woman’s waist while agreeing to have his photo with her, and he has to leave the Senate? He has denied some of the charges by other women.

You really think that squeezing someone’s waist is the same as what Kavanagh is accused of? Give me a break!

[MadDAsHell]

35. There was way more than that. Have you actually read the allegations?

Not saying they're true, it never got that far, but to dismiss accusers of assault as "victims" is not something that's usually acceptable here.

[Charlotte Little]

47. Excuse me

I have read all of the complaints. I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am just not convinced the dems didn't shoot themselves in the face by demanding Franken lose his career.

Look for the trees, folks. You are not winning. And the country is burning.

[athena]

54. Please read this article.

The whole thing.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/i-believe-frankens-accusers-because-he-groped-me-too/547691/

[Charlotte Little]

60. I read it when it was first published

He squeezed her waist, twice. Why is he not in prison?


Seriously, camp 2 (purity game-players), you are not going to convince us in camp 1. I can't speak for all of us, but I for one have read the articles and know what the allegations are. I was very much for Franken being investigated. And if he did grope these women, he deserved to go.

But we don't know if any of these allegations are true. No investigation took place.

I'm a woman who believes women should be believed. I also believe "innocent until proven guilty" and all the nuances that come with that. (e.g. Kavanaugh has not been proven to have raped or sexually assaulted anyone, but he is in fact behaving as if very guilty and has NOT called for an investigation as Franken has and, oh why not throw him in, Ellison has).

The two beliefs can exist simultaneously without me being a hypocrite. It's you folks in camp 2, you purists, who are blowing it. Because, at the end of the day, we gained absolutely nothing from Franken's demise. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

And the country is burning.

[Charlotte Little]

63. Don't even try that

You're being dishonest with that tactic. Shame on you.

And clearly you didn't read my post. I address Kavanaugh within it.

Don't reply to me again or you go on ignore.

[shanny]

69. Brava. I agree with you.

we have to stop playing into their hands.

[Ligyron]

92. Absolutely unbelievable isn't it?

I guess learning to waltz would completely traumatize someone with a waist issue like that.

This type of shit is why Limpballs can call certain women "feminazis" and have men and even women across broad swathes of the landscape cry "ditto Rush!".

When Kavanaugh is sitting on the SCOTUS we're going to see some fo-real sexual harassment institutionalized.

The real sexual trauma is just around the corner now.

[Charlotte Little]

97. Yes

Just around the corner...

I'm still wishing, praying, sticking needles in a voodoo doll, that Kavanaugh won't be confirmed.

He will be, of course. So, buckle up.

[trueblue2007]

84. I can't believe you. A man putting his arm around a woman's waist VS a man trying to RAPE a woman

What you are saying is just awful.

I think KAV should be in prison, I don't think Franken should.
Just READ what you wrote. You are attacking people here on DU. WHY??

[Blue Owl]

8. Higher blood pressure

n/t

[mr_lebowski]

9. We can now legit claim we're the purist, most super-uber-PC bunch

... in the whole wide world!

HOORAY!

The accolades (and political wins) we'll get from this accomplishment ... are right around the corner.

Really.

[Hortensis]

11. Is demoralized complaining going to be an eternal response to

worrisome times? Will we be seeing you and dozens of others clawing at the party every fucking week for the next 10 years? The Republicans were able to take out Franken because we could not prove he didn't stick his tongue in the mouths and grab the butt cheeks of 8 different women. They turned #MeToo on us.

And there're going to be more casualties. Even if we do somehow get control of both houses of congress -- in a month now! and despite all the whiny willies -- our nation's huge problems will continue.

Serve the Republican by chewing Democratic necks for the next decade or hoist those britches and stand tall and committed against the right wing fascism threatening to take over our nation. Those are the choices.

[JHan]

16. +++++++++++

[standingtall]

18. Democrats needed to be reminded of what happened to Franken over and over again

so they don't make the same mistake again.

[Hortensis]

87. I'd trade this kind of hypocrisy for one steadfast Republican who

could be counted on to vote Democrat on November 6. All those who lack commitment to stopping fascism, white supremacy and Christian dominionism could go undermine the right, where they would complain bitterly about right-wing stupidity every time Democrats prevail, even briefly or in imagination.

That we cannot is the left's burden. The right doesn't have this particular type dragging them down.

[pazzyanne]

83. They already tried this again in Minnesota, with Keith Ellison.

We learned from Franken. We are waiting for the results of investigations. The DNC investigation showed nothing, so they have now requested a law enforcement investigation. That tape that she said she had has mysteriously disappeared. Just like all of the allegations made against Al Franken. tRump et al are trying their hardest to turn Minnesota red this year. See the connection. It is right out there in plain sight if you look.

[maxrandb]

12. We felt good about ourselves

and put another Senate seat in jeopardy.

[qazplm135]

13. We lost politically how?

He's replaced by a Dem. That dem is going to win re-election. Soooo....

[standingtall]

19. Again what did we get out of it?

We replaced a Democrat with another Democrat. That's a lateral move at best.

[athena]

20. We removed a man who treated women with contempt.

I know, I know, that doesn't matter to a lot of people (especially men).

I mean, who cares about eight women claiming sexual harassment, right?

[Autumn]

22. Too bad none of them testified as to what he supposedly did. nt

[standingtall]

23. First off we dont know that treated women with contempt

Half of Franken's accusers were anonymous. And no one came forward as a witness to what Franken's public accusers claimed despite being in front of crowds of people at photo-ops. Maybe we got to turn me too into a religious dogma. Believe all women at all times no matter how shaky the evidence is. To bad it failed to convert Collins and Murkowski, because now there is going to be another supreme justice sitting on the court that is hostile to the rights of women.

[athena]

25. Read this and tell me this is how you would want a man to treat your daughter.

http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/

He repeated that actors really need to rehearse everything and that we must practice the kiss. I said ‘OK’ so he would stop badgering me. We did the line leading up to the kiss and then he came at me, put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth.

I immediately pushed him away with both of my hands against his chest and told him if he ever did that to me again I wouldn’t be so nice about it the next time.

I walked away. All I could think about was getting to a bathroom as fast as possible to rinse the taste of him out of my mouth.

I felt disgusted and violated.

And that's only part of it.

[standingtall]

29. Leean Tweeden a republican operative

who started this whole thing with a gag photo. No one witnessed this claim either.

[qazplm135]

38. Dr. Ford

who has marched in multiple Dem/liberal marches, and no one has admitted to witnessing her claim either.

See how that works?

[standingtall]

43. First off Dr. Ford isn't a talk radio host

Nor did she claim what happened to her was at public events like photo-ops. Also Dr. Ford identified witnesses who were Kavanaugh's friends. She would have no reason to lie about that. Tweeden and the rest of Franken's accusers never identified one witness. So it is totally different.

[qazplm135]

56. No

She just had a photo of him showing his ass with multiple other named and unnamed folks literally saying "me too."

[standingtall]

65. Yeah a photo of him not touching her but pretending too

a gag photo. Which I woudn't doubt it if she was in on the gag. She's also got a video of her grabbing a musicians private parts on stage.

[delisen]

111. Yes and Kavanaugh got a hearing; Franken did not.

[brush]

143. She's a repug who helped Stone and Hannity set up Franken and you believe her.

As gullible as Gillibrand.

Many of us on this thread were here when the whole thing was happening and know what happened.

You're late to the party and believing all the repug, hit job crapola.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. Too bad Franken didn't get the investigation HE asked for.

[qazplm135]

100. well he left

before one could be done now didn't he.

He could have stuck around, but he chose to go.

[pazzyanne]

88. Enough!!!

You are so consumed with your rhetoric that you fail to notice what is happening. I am a survivor and I recognize real assault and rape when I see it. Step back away from your bias and take a good look at what is being done by the Republicans, or are you one of them? See how easy that is to accuse someone of something. This has happened to us in Minnesota twice in the past year to excellent representatives of our state. The last one days before our primary. There is a plan in place by Roger Stone and Stephen Miller who are the ones actually running this country with tRump being the distraction. I watch what is being said and then watch the actions of what is being done, and believe me they don't match!

[qazplm135]

34. I don't know did the right thing

and lost nothing by doing so?

If Al wants to get involved, he could have run again. Or he can always speak out, his voice carries weight, people will listen.

[Autumn]

39. And that Dem has been a voice like Frankens in what way?

[LakeSuperiorView]

99. Can you name his replacement without looking it up?

Until his replacement does something noteworthy, I'm going to be annoyed with claims that it did no harm because his replacement is also a Democrat. One DU poster went so far as to say that "we got exactly who we wanted." That poster is NOT from Minnesota...

[DavidDvorkin]

17. We demonstrated once again how easy it is to cow us.

[Sunsky]

21. To look like a bunch of self-righteous fools

To prove to everyone how easily the Republicans can get us to turn on each other.

[AmandaRuth]

24. a pat on the head

and a seat in the back????????

[sunonmars]

36. Taking the high road has got us effing nowhere except on the floor with dirt in our faces.

Time we took the big guns out on these old bastards.

[John Fante]

42. Franken welcomed an investigation and was willing to

cooperate fully in it. Not saying that makes him innocent, but he was decidedly anti-Kavenaugh in that regard.

Having said that, the GOP betrayed everything they professed to stand for (family values, patriotism, fiscal responsibility, etc) to align with Trumpism. There's no need for us to betray our ideals to combat them.

Let hypocrisy be their defining trait, not ours.

[athena]

46. "Let hypocrisy be their defining trait, not ours." Exactly. Thank you.

[madaboutharry]

57. I did not like the conduct of Sen. Gilibrand and other democrats.

I think Franken should have been afforded an ethics investigation and a forum in which to answer to the accusations. It was the pushing him out before any of that happened that I didn't think was fair to anyone.

The photograph from the USO tour was bullshit, in my opinion. He was a comedian at that point in time and the atmosphere on USO tours is notorious. It was the other accusations, grabbing women inappropriately that needed to be investigated.

If he groped the women who made accusations then it is good that he is gone.

[brooklynite]

61. Here's the difference: Franken acknowledged wrongdoing; Kavanaugh did not.

[standingtall]

66. Franken acknowledge he was wrong for the gag photo

he denied all other accusations. Here is the difference Franken was a senator up for reelection every 6 years. While Kavanaugh will be a supreme court justice with a lifetime appointment.

[questionseverything]

121. franken apoligized if the woman felt badly and some have taken that for

his omission of guilt which is bs

[jalan48]

70. We didn't get shit.

[LanternWaste]

71. We? I made no calls, wrote no letters, and possessed nothing more than an opinion.

my guess is that applies to the all posters, as well.

Unless you know of any specifics you're not letting anyone in on...



That said, honest convictions lacking sincere sacrifice are merely bumper stickers and t-shirt slogans. I'd imagine Franken believed as such, else he'd not have made the sacrifice he did.

[NurseJackie]

73. Not a god damned thing! (Except that it weakened us.) I'll never forget. I'll never forgive.

[Honeycombe8]

75. The other Dems on the Judiciary Committee got more face time on tv during the Kav. hearing?

Without Franken there to steal the limelight, the other Dems the ones with Presidential aspirations, got more face time on tv.

People are no longer asking Franken if he's going to run for President, so they're free to look at the remaining Democrats as possible candidates.

That's all I can think of.

[pazzyanne]

91. Apparentlly you do not follow Franken on Facebook.

With the hit he took from his side of the aisle, he cannot run for any election at this time. Time will tell if he tosses his hat back in the ring. I for one am hoping he does.

[trueblue2007]

76. I thiink we got a Woman senator who forced him to resign and SHE HURT ALL WOMEN by her actions.

I am Soooooooooooooooooo sad and angry by what happened to Senator Franken.
I am devastated.

[Stallion]

77. We Got --Kirsten Gillibrand as Unelectable

[FlyingCloud]

86. Gillibrand :/

Thanks Kirsten

[MineralMan]

89. Nothing. However, Tina Smith, who replaced him is a reliable

progressive Democrat. She's not the firebrand that Franken was, by any means, and doesn't have his presence. She is, however, a progressive voice and when she's elected, she's likely to become more outspoken. I haven't met her personally, yet. I have met Al Franken several times. My wife had her picture taken with him once at the State Fair. I was on one side of him, and she was on the other. He did put his arm around her back. She didn't feel assaulted by that, though. My wife's a hugger. Everyone in her family is a hugger. I've been warmly hugged by everyone she's related to. That isn't the case in my own family.

I adapt to the style of the people I'm with. If they're huggers, I'm happy to hug. I don't pay a lot of attention to those hugs. My ex-wife had a lot of friends who weren't just huggers. They were smoochers. That took some getting used to, really. A few of her women friends were serious smoochers, and meant nothing by it other than a friendly greeting. Again, that took some getting used to, but I never actually felt violated by getting a big sloppy kiss from one of her friends. I got used to it.

Other people I know and consider to be friends are upset if you even encroach on their personal space. I respect their space and maintain an acceptable distance. But I didn't know the right distance until I had encountered them a few times. I had to learn to read their responses to learn what was OK with them and not.

Strangers are even more difficult. One really has no idea of what their reactions will be to anything. I tend to be very tentative with them, and keep my separation clear.

Bottom line is that each individual and sometimes group has a different style of interaction. Al Franken's style is close and personal. He doesn't really have a personal space he likes to maintain. He's comfortable with whatever people are comfortable with. His wife and daughter are the same way. I chatted with his daughter for about half an hour at a meet and greet campaign thing. When the chat was over, she moved in and hugged me, although we had only met shortly before and I doubt she even remembered my name. I gave her a friendly hug, because she initiated one. Now, if I were a person who has issues with my personal space, I might have been put off by her action. I would hope that if that were the case, I'd make allowances for her personal style, though.

Not every familiar physical expression of friendliness is something to be concerned about. It's just not. Often, it's just that person's personal style. Sensible people adapt to the situation and don't take offense if someone's personal style is a little more physical than one's own. People are different. That's what makes life interesting.

So, my ex-wife's smoochy friends and my current wife's hugging relatives are just who they are. I was a little taken aback when a teenage girl cousin of my wife's gave me a big warm hug the first time I met her. But she does that to lots of people, I have noticed. It doesn't mean anything except that she comes from a hugging family. So, that's cool, and I hug her right back now. That's her style.

Getting along in a social environment sometimes means making allowances for a variety of personal styles when it comes to physical contact. It doesn't mean anything, really.

Anyhow, if you meet Al Franken, don't be surprised if he moves into your personal space a little. That's Al Franken. He's a really nice guy and doesn't mean anything by it. That's just how he is.

[pazzyanne]

94. Thank you!

[MineralMan]

95. My pleasure. I made an OP out of this post, because I

think it's important.

[pazzyanne]

104. So do I!!!

[getagrip_already]

96. What do you mean by "we"?

It wasn't we. It was they. And they aren't the gop in this case, just a group who doesn't seem to see the difference between what they do and what the gop does.

[Bettie]

98. All of the Right Wing laughing at us for succumbing to

their ratfucking?

Oh, and the "moral high ground"...which has done so much for us.

[gopiscrap]

101. absolutely nothing

[pnwmom]

103. If she wins, we will have Democratic Senator Tina Smith, the former Lt. Governor who was appointed

to replace Al Franken and is running in November.

She has a very strong resume an is unencumbered with similar allegations.

[marieo1]

105. Disgusted Minngal

I have been so angry about this ever since it happened. I've been a democrat my whole life but because of the shamefulness of this I have chosen not to support anyone running for office. I am still a democrat but I am disgusted with the politics of all of it. Al Franken was a good representative of all of us and a fighter. Now, we have real predators in our political parties, why don't the people that went after Franken, go after them?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

108. I don't fully agree with what happened with Franken

but "getting something" isn't the point of what happened- or the #MeToo movement.

[chowder66]

110. I wonder what Rock Stars are thinking about Al Franken's accusers.

They must be shitting their pants.

[LisaL]

115. When they go low, we go high.

We got the moral high ground, and they got the congress, the senate, the presidency and now presumably, they are getting the Supreme Court.

[EarlG]

117. We got to be the party that believes women who

come forward and accuse powerful men of sexual misconduct.

We avoided being the party that says we believe in the ideals of the #MeToo movement, but bails on #MeToo as soon as one of our own is accused.

I suspect that Al Franken knew that, and that’s why he chose to quit.

[LisaL]

118. I guess innocent until proven guilty goes right out the window.

[Voltaire2]

131. Thank you.

I’ve given up pointing this out as I just get hammered.

We are permanently separating an entire generation of women from the Republican Party.

[BootinUp]

122. I don't want to think about it.

=={+*}#**{+£|£~€€~€£|¥]!!!!!!

[bluecollar2]

124. The moral high ground

Pay attention dammit!

[Dave Starsky]

128. Isn't it great?

You and I can fist bump each other after we crawl through the rubble of this country.

[bluecollar2]

137. Yeah...

But hey...well still be holding the high ground. Maybe we should design a f***ing flag...

[Midnightwalk]

127. Here's what we lost

Sexual accusations have to be taken seriously and handled in deliberate way.

I think many on our side would lean towards believing the victim first. The other side shows they believe the accused or don't care.

Deliberate means there is an investigation and there is careful consideration of the evidence. I'm not talking about the bs about "innocent until proven guilty" or "due process" at least not in legal sense. That doesn't apply with Franken or Kavanaugh, because these weren't criminal cases, but that doesn't mean we can't investigate or be deliberative. Not having an understood process for Senators or judicial candidates makes it more important to do it carefully so we learn.

Kavanaugh should have had a full investigation and public discussion of the results, "just like happened with Franken". We're still right saying that should happen with Kavanaugh, but we can't say "just like Franken".

It's also not just being able to say that, it was also the right thing to do no matter how it turned out.

And I do personally believe Ford and others and there should have been an investigation. I also think the way Kavanaugh handled last week's charade was disqualifying.

Btw, I think I got all the auto corrects to Frankenstein but sorry if I missed some.

[Awsi Dooger]

129. We got clarity toward some of our overmatched senators, specifically Gillibrand

Far better to learn in that context than to actually contemplate someone like that matched up against Donald Trump.

His biggest problem would be restraining laughter.

I still don't know how we lost Franken. I was so sick we were overreacting to short term developments I wasn't paying full attention. My belief is always to ignore today and focus on the big picture. That big picture perspective would mean calm down and allow time and restored normalcy to take over, to maintain someone as special as Al Franken.

[Recursion]

138. A great Senator. I love Tina Smith (nt)

[Azathoth]

140. We sent a message to Dem officeholders: Fight or Die

Franken didn't fight the attacks. The next Democrat who gets targeted will fight back before they get dumped overboard.

[UCmeNdc]

144. We got nothing!

We got played!