General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsStep 1: Get Kavanaugh confirmed
Step 2: Have Supreme Court rule to extend Presidential pardon powers
Step 3: Fire Rod Rosenstein after mid terms.
Step 4: Make Lindsey Graham Attorney General
Step 5: Pardon everybody involved with Russia investigation, thus stopping the investigation
Step 6: Have Supreme Court rule that a sitting president cannot be indicted
Please, someone tell me I am wrong.
Response to ehrnst (Original post)
Post removed
lapucelle
(18,265 posts)still_one
(92,192 posts)Democrats.
Perhaps they were out of the country the last year
lapucelle
(18,265 posts)since his nomination, just to name two Democrats.
still_one
(92,192 posts)lapucelle
(18,265 posts)to underscore your sarcasm!
still_one
(92,192 posts)ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)Step 8:
IggleDuer
(964 posts)MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)don't go to jail for state charges.
Nevilledog
(51,104 posts)Gamble case only applies to successive prosecutions for the identical crime..... Same elements, same events.
eleny
(46,166 posts)And six reasons to work like heck for the midterms.
Kajun Gal
(1,907 posts)former9thward
(32,009 posts)The SC does the rule on anything unless there is a case in front of them. It takes a long time to get a case to the SC. So Step 2 can't be Step 2.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Gamble v. United States
Nevilledog
(51,104 posts)Please read all the briefs (they're not long). If Gamble prevails, states can still prosecute for crimes that are not exactly the same as the Federal crime. Does not apply at all to uniquely state crimes either like evasion of state taxes.
http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/gamble-v-united-states/
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)The reason Gamble v. United States is generating buzz from people other than constitutional law scholars is that the separate sovereigns exception also prevents President Trump from pardoning people for state crimes. Under current Supreme Court precedent, a presidential pardon of an individual does not prevent that individual from being prosecuted for the same or similar crimes under state law. Under the dual sovereignty doctrine, Adam J. Adler wrote in the Yale Law Review, as long as two offenses are defined by different jurisdictions, they cannot constitute the same offense.
The Congressional Research Service issued an August 2018 report on the potential ramifications of the case, and this report included a discussion of its possible effect on the presidential pardon power:
The Gamble case may nevertheless have significant collateral legal effects A win for Gamble could also indirectly strengthen the Presidents pardon power, by precluding a state from prosecuting an already-pardoned defendant who has gone to trial on an overlapping offense.
Gamble is not directly related to Special Counsel Robert Muellers investigation into President Donald Trumps possible involvement with Russian election interference.
But current doctrine could discourage him [Trump] from trying to shut down the Mueller investigation or pardon anyone caught up in the probe because the pardon wouldnt be applied to state charges.
https://hillreporter.com/the-supreme-court-case-fueling-republicans-rush-to-confirm-brett-kavanaugh-8463
Nevilledog
(51,104 posts)Gamble was prosecuted as a prohibited possessor in state court. After that conviction the Feds prosecuted him for the same prohibited possession. One event, one gun, one day. Both convictions were based on one set of facts for crimes that have identical elements. Both sentences he received were ordered to run concurrently. However, under federal sentencing guidelines, that sentences was 3 years longer than the state sentence.
The double jeopardy clause is ostensibly to protect someone from receiving separate punishments for the same action, or to be tried again after an acquittal. The prosecution in a single jurisdiction could not decide to retry someone after they were acquitted hoping the next jury would convict. In practical terms, the type of successive prosecutions in Gamble are not very common. If the Feds want to prosecute someone, states are usually more than happy to let someone else pick up the tab for prosecution and incarceration.
Gamble has zero to do with pardons. The state will always have the ability to charge someone for a state crime that is not identical in elements and events. Say someone is convicted for federal money laundering by funneling money through company A. Pardon of that offense would not keep a state from then prosecuting for money laundering pursuant to state law for funneling money through company B.
The only way trump could keep a person from being prosecuted for a state crime would be to issue a pardon saying Person X is preemptively pardoned for every possible federal crime committed at any time, anywhere, so long as the Fed. Crime is identical in elements and proof. Pretty fucking sure that would never happen. Even if he could do that, there are uniquely state based offenses no federal pardon would protect you from......for example, a pardon for evading federal taxes would never keep a state from prosecuting evading state taxes.
The amicus briefs filed in this case are pretty interesting, I urge people to read them all.
http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/gamble-v-united-states/
brettdale
(12,381 posts)And when Trump dies, Ivanka can take over.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)What happens to our inferred constitutional "right to privacy" that limits government control over our actions, experiences, choices, personal/financial information, bodies? It had to be "inferred" to exist from several amendments to the Constitution in the 1960s in order to rule in Griswold v Connecticut that married couples had a right to birth control (after CT made contraception illegal). Unmarried users could still be imprisoned.
The right to privacy is very broadly encompassing, protecting our sovereignty over many aspects of our lives. All originalists intend to reverse it, and with it not only will abortion, and likely contraception, become illegal in many states, but police power over the citizenry would be greatly expanded. Trump's a dummy, but as a wannabe dictator he has to know this. Imagine police able to track citizens through cameras and facial recognition software, cell phone stingray tracking, and everything else without needing a court order. Government able to read our emails and prisons with no duty to make us available for elective surgery such as a kidney transplant.
Speaking of, LGBTQ have become very quiet. They're very afraid, of course, and very rightly.
And how about the general welfare clause? Virtually all our federal social programs hinge on an interpretation that even someone like me agrees probably goes far beyond what our founders intended. NO Social Security. No Medicare or Medicaid. NO national healthcare program of any kind.
All just a small part of what could be done within a couple of years.