Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
Thu Oct 4, 2018, 06:16 PM Oct 2018

Step 1: Get Kavanaugh confirmed

Step 2: Have Supreme Court rule to extend Presidential pardon powers
Step 3: Fire Rod Rosenstein after mid terms.
Step 4: Make Lindsey Graham Attorney General
Step 5: Pardon everybody involved with Russia investigation, thus stopping the investigation
Step 6: Have Supreme Court rule that a sitting president cannot be indicted

Please, someone tell me I am wrong.

20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Step 1: Get Kavanaugh confirmed (Original Post) ehrnst Oct 2018 OP
Post removed Post removed Oct 2018 #1
Wait...what? There's "total aquiesence" from Democrats on Kavanaugh? lapucelle Oct 2018 #2
Amazing isn't it. So some have moved from bashing Feinstein and Hedicamp to now including all still_one Oct 2018 #3
The senior senator from Vermont and Dick Durbin have been going after Kavanaugh lapucelle Oct 2018 #4
I know, I was being sarcastic still_one Oct 2018 #10
I know you were...I was responding with an ironic example lapucelle Oct 2018 #11
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ still_one Oct 2018 #14
Step 7: declare Rump a monarch for life ProudLib72 Oct 2018 #5
Step 8: invade Poland IggleDuer Oct 2018 #15
In between all that they have to get a favorable ruling on Gamble so they MrsCoffee Oct 2018 #6
Gamble has nothing to do with keeping states from prosecuting. Nevilledog Oct 2018 #17
That's the plan eleny Oct 2018 #7
And you understand the republican/Trump plan! Thank you!! Kajun Gal Oct 2018 #8
You are wrong about step 2 for sure. former9thward Oct 2018 #9
There is one that could allow Trump to pardon associates on the docket. ehrnst Oct 2018 #13
That is NOT what Gamble is about. Nevilledog Oct 2018 #18
There are those that believe it could impact the Mueller case as such: ehrnst Oct 2018 #19
I'm in a rush this morning, but here's one of my previous posts on this issue. Nevilledog Oct 2018 #20
Dont forgot abolish term limits brettdale Oct 2018 #12
Can't. If there's anything "wrong," it's all the missing items. Hortensis Oct 2018 #16

Response to ehrnst (Original post)

still_one

(92,192 posts)
3. Amazing isn't it. So some have moved from bashing Feinstein and Hedicamp to now including all
Thu Oct 4, 2018, 06:46 PM
Oct 2018

Democrats.

Perhaps they were out of the country the last year



lapucelle

(18,265 posts)
4. The senior senator from Vermont and Dick Durbin have been going after Kavanaugh
Thu Oct 4, 2018, 06:51 PM
Oct 2018

since his nomination, just to name two Democrats.

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
6. In between all that they have to get a favorable ruling on Gamble so they
Thu Oct 4, 2018, 06:54 PM
Oct 2018

don't go to jail for state charges.

Nevilledog

(51,104 posts)
17. Gamble has nothing to do with keeping states from prosecuting.
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 02:15 AM
Oct 2018

Gamble case only applies to successive prosecutions for the identical crime..... Same elements, same events.

former9thward

(32,009 posts)
9. You are wrong about step 2 for sure.
Thu Oct 4, 2018, 07:17 PM
Oct 2018

The SC does the rule on anything unless there is a case in front of them. It takes a long time to get a case to the SC. So Step 2 can't be Step 2.

Nevilledog

(51,104 posts)
18. That is NOT what Gamble is about.
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 02:20 AM
Oct 2018

Please read all the briefs (they're not long). If Gamble prevails, states can still prosecute for crimes that are not exactly the same as the Federal crime. Does not apply at all to uniquely state crimes either like evasion of state taxes.


http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/gamble-v-united-states/

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
19. There are those that believe it could impact the Mueller case as such:
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 07:29 AM
Oct 2018
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-gamble-court-case/

Why Would President Trump Be Interested in the Outcome of This Case?

The reason Gamble v. United States is generating buzz from people other than constitutional law scholars is that the separate sovereigns exception also prevents President Trump from pardoning people for state crimes. Under current Supreme Court precedent, a presidential pardon of an individual does not prevent that individual from being prosecuted for the same or similar crimes under state law. “Under the dual sovereignty doctrine,” Adam J. Adler wrote in the Yale Law Review, “as long as two offenses are defined by different jurisdictions, they cannot constitute the ‘same offense.’”

The Congressional Research Service issued an August 2018 report on the potential ramifications of the case, and this report included a discussion of its possible effect on the presidential pardon power:

The Gamble case may nevertheless have significant collateral legal effects … A win for Gamble could also indirectly strengthen the President’s pardon power, by precluding a state from prosecuting an already-pardoned defendant who has gone to trial on an overlapping offense.



Bertrand notes that some legal experts have cited the dual-sovereignty doctrine as a check on presidential pardon power, which currently only applies to federal crimes. This allows individuals pardoned for federal crimes to be charged for the same offenses at the state level – a core principle of federalism and individual state sovereignty.

Gamble is not directly related to Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into President Donald Trump’s possible involvement with Russian election interference.

But current doctrine “could discourage him [Trump] from trying to shut down the Mueller investigation or pardon anyone caught up in the probe because the pardon wouldn’t be applied to state charges.”


https://hillreporter.com/the-supreme-court-case-fueling-republicans-rush-to-confirm-brett-kavanaugh-8463

Nevilledog

(51,104 posts)
20. I'm in a rush this morning, but here's one of my previous posts on this issue.
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 09:54 AM
Oct 2018

Gamble was prosecuted as a prohibited possessor in state court. After that conviction the Feds prosecuted him for the same prohibited possession. One event, one gun, one day. Both convictions were based on one set of facts for crimes that have identical elements. Both sentences he received were ordered to run concurrently. However, under federal sentencing guidelines, that sentences was 3 years longer than the state sentence.

The double jeopardy clause is ostensibly to protect someone from receiving separate punishments for the same action, or to be tried again after an acquittal. The prosecution in a single jurisdiction could not decide to retry someone after they were acquitted hoping the next jury would convict. In practical terms, the type of successive prosecutions in Gamble are not very common. If the Feds want to prosecute someone, states are usually more than happy to let someone else pick up the tab for prosecution and incarceration.

Gamble has zero to do with pardons. The state will always have the ability to charge someone for a state crime that is not identical in elements and events. Say someone is convicted for federal money laundering by funneling money through company A. Pardon of that offense would not keep a state from then prosecuting for money laundering pursuant to state law for funneling money through company B.

The only way trump could keep a person from being prosecuted for a state crime would be to issue a pardon saying Person X is preemptively pardoned for every possible federal crime committed at any time, anywhere, so long as the Fed. Crime is identical in elements and proof. Pretty fucking sure that would never happen. Even if he could do that, there are uniquely state based offenses no federal pardon would protect you from......for example, a pardon for evading federal taxes would never keep a state from prosecuting evading state taxes.

The amicus briefs filed in this case are pretty interesting, I urge people to read them all.
http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/gamble-v-united-states/



Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
16. Can't. If there's anything "wrong," it's all the missing items.
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 02:02 AM
Oct 2018

What happens to our inferred constitutional "right to privacy" that limits government control over our actions, experiences, choices, personal/financial information, bodies? It had to be "inferred" to exist from several amendments to the Constitution in the 1960s in order to rule in Griswold v Connecticut that married couples had a right to birth control (after CT made contraception illegal). Unmarried users could still be imprisoned.

The right to privacy is very broadly encompassing, protecting our sovereignty over many aspects of our lives. All originalists intend to reverse it, and with it not only will abortion, and likely contraception, become illegal in many states, but police power over the citizenry would be greatly expanded. Trump's a dummy, but as a wannabe dictator he has to know this. Imagine police able to track citizens through cameras and facial recognition software, cell phone stingray tracking, and everything else without needing a court order. Government able to read our emails and prisons with no duty to make us available for elective surgery such as a kidney transplant.

Speaking of, LGBTQ have become very quiet. They're very afraid, of course, and very rightly.

And how about the general welfare clause? Virtually all our federal social programs hinge on an interpretation that even someone like me agrees probably goes far beyond what our founders intended. NO Social Security. No Medicare or Medicaid. NO national healthcare program of any kind.

All just a small part of what could be done within a couple of years.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Step 1: Get Kavanaugh con...