Joe manchin

[DonCoquixote]

Look, I have heard the mantra: we need to keep Manchin in because if we don't, there will be a GOp in, and we will NOT have his vote in the crucial times.

Well, the number of senators that have this vote are in the single digits. This is not some theory, it is a fact. No, I am not happy he voted with the GOP to begin the vote, something that Murkowiski at least did not do.

However, let me say this, it comes down to every vote, including that of Joe. IF HE VOTES YES FOR KAVANUAGH, are we still going to hear people go "we have to keep our powder dry" even as this guy spends a good 30 years making sure rape victims have to go to the back alleys?

There is keeping your powder dry, and there are moments which will literally carve themselves into history, affecting you grandchildren. If Manchin does not vote our way, he is not only as bad as a GOP, he is worse, and he must GO!

and before you there there me, A manchin yes would help the GOP more than many GOP could hope to do.

[secondwind]

1. Everything you just said is true.

[Fred Sanders]

29. Except almost all of it about Manchin.

Who else is going to win a precious D Senate seat in WV??

[woundedkarma]

58. The point is

If he won't vote with democrats on the most important senate vote in our lives, he might as well be a republican.

[Fred Sanders]

61. ...who else is going to win a Senate seat in WV?

[DonCoquixote]

68. let us say no one

except of course if we actually try to build someone up rather than let Joe occupy space. But at least we will not have the illusion that there is not someone in that seta that will work to ACTIVELY HURT US. Right now, he gave the gop cover to say "well, one of YOURES voted fro kavanaugh, so that means you are all sexists too!"

He has become a Cancer! If he need to be amputated so that the rest of us may live, so be it. No one forced him to make this vote.

[Trueblue Texan]

92. And I'd rather divert funds to a surer bet on...

...someone who will support democratic values. We need a candidate who will fight for this Democracy instead of giving it away to hold onto his seat!

[Honeycombe8]

71. A very important reason for having a "D" in that seat is...it goes toward Dems having the majority.

It means they get to chair the committees, have subpoena power, determine bills to go to the floor, and all the rest.

Just having a D by the name is important, if in name only.

It's hard to remember that right now. He IS almost the same as a Republican. But if that is the only kind of Democrat that can win in WV, just having a D is better than having an R have that seat.

We just now have to consider him a Republican in sheep's clothing.

[FM123]

77. You make a good point...

with Manchin keeping the seat (and flipping a few more blue) the senate leader would be Schumer not McConnell. What a difference that would be, like night and day!

[Jersey Devil]

74. He voted with Dems on ACA and against repeal of ACA

I'd say that's an "important" Senate vote, wouldn't you?

[Eko]

79. There you go

saying something sane, how dare you?

[Dopers_Greed]

86. Watch out, you aren't being ideologically "pure"

[karynnj]

85. His first vote each Congress is for Majority Leader

Imagine that in the other 49 states, we end up with 50 Senators.

If Manchin wins, Schumer (or another Democrat) will be Majority leader and we get to chair all the committes. If his opponent wins, we get McConnell as Majority Leader and they get all the chairs.

THIS ALONE MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN STOPPING BAD THINGS FROM HAPPENING.

[yardwork]

105. No, that's not the point. The point is regaining the majority so we can control the process.

[Squinch]

2. If he votes yes, there will be no end to my rage. But that will not change the fact that

if we don't have the majority we don't control the committees.

Yes. It will cut me like a knife. And no, we cannot let the WV Senator's chair go to a republican.

The majority control of the committees has nothing to do with keeping powder dry.

[underthematrix]

6. I'm with you. I'm voting a straight DEMOCRATIC ticket

We need to win BOTH houses.

[Squinch]

9. Me too. And I will never, ever in my life, vote for a republican. Democrats could shoot my dog,

after all this, and I'll still vote for the D.

[getagrip_already]

48. relax, he won't be the 50th yes vote......

He may vote yes, but only if there are already 50 gop votes. At that point, kav is on scotus anyway. Let the man have his cover vote.

Hopefully in 2020 we won't need him anymore either way. But until then, we do. Especially if we get 51 in the senate in 2018.

If we cast him out now, it may cost us a majority in the senate. That will mean trump can continue to ram bad judge picks through. It will also mean we will have no ability to refer his perjury to the fbi.

Think about it.

Of course, if he is the 50th vote, all bets are off. But he won't go there.

[Squinch]

54. You appear to have responded to my post without reading it.

[GoCubsGo]

96. Yes, and I urge people to read up on the looney who is running against him.

His name is Patrick Morrisey. He is a racist, and he is batshit crazy. Manchin looks like God's gift to the world in comparison.

[exboyfil]

3. Agree totally

[mountain grammy]

4. There will be NO defense of Manchin if he votes to confirm.

[disillusioned73]

5. His vote for cloture is showing his hand..

the fact that Murkowski was a NO and he still said YES, already exposes his character.. he had the cover needed for a NO vote.. he checked to the R's

[Imperialism Inc.]

10. Na. He can still vote no.

A 50-50 tie cloture vote would be broken by Pence. He doesn't want the charge of trying to obstruct the vote used in his re-election campaign. If one more Republican defects he will vote No on the final vote for sure.

[trixie2]

42. This is what I am hoping for too.

[moonscape]

98. The outcome was always a lock. Murkowski would

never have been a 'no' to prevent his confirmation, and Manchin would never have been a 'yes' to ensure it.

They do not vote independently.

[disillusioned73]

113. "They do not vote independently"

and that is OK?? You do realize, what your saying is.. his voting is contingent on how Republicans vote... interesting practice - for a "Democrat"

[Me.]

7. The Fact About Manchin & HIs Voting

he votes with the Comrade in the WH 61% of the time as opposed to what we always hear that he votes with Dems most of the time. So we end up making vast allowances for him for 39%of his votes.

[BigGermanGuy]

26. ill take 39

over 0.

can't fix the demographics of WV

[BumRushDaShow]

34. Here is a different perspective of his votes

(I know you are quoting whatt 538 says)

http://politicsthatwork.com/voting-record/Joe-Manchin-412391

When I looked at 538's stuff - they were of course including votes on cabinet and agency nominations and I noticed that he seemed to vote "yay" for most of Drumpf's nominees but not all (and there were a bunch), so that skewed the totals up. But when it came to other stuff, I think people on DU should note how many times Turtle either cancelled votes or only passed something literally on party lines, i.e., he didn't defect.

So take a look at the chart (and drop-downs for the legislation and/or amendements to legislation) that he supported that are (D)-focused.

[Thew]

38. That has been my understanding as well

Rs complain that "he's there whenever you don't need him"

He seems to be voting strategically - going along with a "conservative" vote only when it won't decide the issue.

I'm guessing he'll do the same here; if K is going to pass anyway, he'll be a yes. He in no way wants to be portrayed as the deciding vote.

[Me.]

40. Not Exactly

I was quoting fact check and another site I can't seem to find at the moment

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/08/sen-manchin-often-votes-with-trump/

And just so it's clear about Manchin and people don't kid themselves

“Manchin, whose state voted for Trump by more than 40 percentage points, told Politico he regretted backing Hillary Clinton in 2016 and said he wouldn't rule out endorsing the president in the 2020 election over whomever his Democratic opponent turns out to be.

Manchin confessed he and Trump have had their embraces.

"We just kind of do the man-bump type thing. That’s it. And I think he’s pulling me as much as I’m pulling him,” Manchin told Politico.“

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/06/06/manchin-politico-interview/679684002/

[JHan]

44. pure politics... but don't get me wrong..

If Manchin's vote on Kavanaugh is a Yes, I'd gladly pay to see Heidi tell him to eat a bag of dicks.

[BumRushDaShow]

49. Agree with JHan

You have "political expediency".

The alternative of course is what I recall happening a long time ago - people like Richard Shelby (who is still there) and Ben Nighthourse Campbell, who were elected as (D)s and switched parties, back to back in the '90s (and Campbell got all nasty anti-D after he did so too). This effectively gave the GOP complete control of the Senate for the first time since the late '80s and paved the way for Frog Get-Rich's "Contract on America" bullshit.

[Me.]

50. I'm Assuming You're Talking About His Expediency

Just like his big pharma daughter had her version of it. Here's the thing, it's always what if he's the 51st Dem vote..well there's no guarantee if he's the 51st he will vote with Dems especially if he's open to backing the Comrade in the WH for pres. When someone lets you know who they are, best believe them.

[BumRushDaShow]

55. Yes - "politics"

It's a shame that we don't have a Jay Rockefeller IV back in there but it is what it is.

At this point, unless we can flip "extra" seats in AZ or even TX in addition to taking one in TN, then in order to take control of the committees and set the floor schedule, we need all the (D)s (on the record) that we can get.

Of course perhaps he might do better if he just went on and switched to (I) like Angus King and be done with it. He is definitely to the right of King although King won't just go on and run as a (D)... Because. Maine.

[Me.]

62. Agreed

but my sense is the clock is running out on Manchin and he may just find his money drying up from the Dems. This is one of the most important votes that he and others will cast and won't be forgiven easily. The ramifications of Comrade Trump and his fellow destructors are too great to ignore.

[BumRushDaShow]

63. Hate to say but

like Conor Lamb's district here in PA, the danger is driving the people there right into the arms of the GOP completely (in terms of voter registration). That seems to be what has happened in that entire Appalachian area, from western PA to mid OH and down the spine of the mountains into WV and KY. They used to be solid "blue collar" (D) but their hard times have driven them right to the "angry" GOP narrative via the proliferation of the profits of doom on am radio.

Sometimes I think this was why Byrd made every attempt imaginable to put government-related facilities there as part of earmark requests. That way you not only bring alternative types of jobs into an area, but you eventually start to get the shift to blue like you see happening in VA (notably northern VA).

[Honeycombe8]

72. That's a lot better than even a moderate Repub, who votes w/Trump agenda 80%-90% of the time. nt

[LandOfHopeAndDreams]

8. He Will Lose Most Of His Lead If He Votes Yes

I sincerely believe that he will lose far more Democratic/Independent votes than he will gain repub/independent votes.

I wonder how people would feel if he loses, and it's his seat that makes the difference in control of the Senate.

[Autumn]

13. My feeling is if he should lose his seat over this, that's on him, not the voters.

It's such a shame that the Republicans have broken our system.

[blueinredohio]

15. Agreed

[recentevents]

22. As a survivor of domestic abuse

I read that statement to say. "you need to stay with your abusive partner for the sake of.......(insert reasons here)"
Fuck that, and fuck him.

[Autumn]

41. This. So much this

[lame54]

60. He has 4 weeks to turn it around...

The case can be made why this guy would be a horrible SCOTUS pick - he could sell it if he tries
He just wants the easy way out and his 6 year job is more important to him than our lifetime disaster

[a la izquierda]

111. Trust me, that is the talk here in morgantown.

Women (I am one) are livid.
He wasn’t going to get any more Republican votes...but Democratic women in this state are really pissed.

[Autumn]

11. One thing for sure, I'm glad I don't live there because as a woman if he votes yes

on Kavanagh I would never vote for him. Never. I'm glad I don't have to make that choice and I won't fault any woman who won't vote for him.

[Boomer]

99. I'm still wresting with this

I have the great misfortune to live in West Virginia. My wife is adamantly against voting for Manchin after his Yes for Kavanaugh. I'm still undecided.

I know all the reasons that I'm being told to vote for him -- and I don't disagree with their validity or weight -- but voting for Manchin this November may be a bridge too far for me. Like my wife, I'm livid that Kavanaugh has been added to SCOTUS.

[Autumn]

100. I guess those of us who have Republican Senators

are lucky that's a choice we won't have to make. It's a tough decision, I'm not sure I could betray my conscience to vote for a Senator who voted for him.

[SaschaHM]

12. He got his "See I'm a moderate, yea" vote with this cloture vote.

My guess is that he will be a no on the final if it's failing. He may have a 60% or so voting record with Trump, but I doubt that he is hardly ever the deciding vote for anything.

If he votes yea on an already decided vote, then I'm not tossing him overboard if he can keep his seat.

Also, Kavanaugh needed to advance to a final vote. The only people a nominee stuck in cloture helps is the GOP.

[Drunken Irishman]

18. Yup. I wish people would see this.

Hell...bring it to a vote. Let's put it officially on the record now

I think he votes no as well.

[JudyM]

14. Who knows, there could be kompromat on him.

[WeekiWater]

16. West Virginia has a primary. That is when to deal with this.

U.S. Senate
Democratic Primary

Joe Manchin*
111,589 69.8%
Paula Jean Swearengin
48,302 30.2%

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/08/us/elections/results-west-virginia-primary-elections.html

No one is keeping the powder dry. We know who Manchin is. He is not a newcomer to the process. He simply beat the snot out of Swearengin in the primaries. I promise you we all want him to win in the general.

It has nothing to do with "powder". Manchin was the only Democrat I saw forcefully standing up for Al Franken. Even after Franken issued his resignation Manchin was telling him to pull it back. Manchin is to the left of his constituency. He votes to the left of where they would vote, as a whole. Start a national movement to primary him. That is what it will take. Then hope the Democrat who beats him in the primary can win in the general. I'm game for the risk. Still, Manchin is a known quantity. I'm surprised some people are acting like they are unfamiliar with him.

[BannonsLiver]

21. +1

The deep blue state purity board is out in full effect today, many of whom have never set foot in a place like West Virginia or anywhere else to the right of Vermont (who is about to have a GOP gov. win a second term because Vermont Dems nominated someone without a snowballs chance in hell of winning.)

[Equinox Moon]

17. How is he a Democrat?

Does he ever vote with the Democrats?

[SaschaHM]

20. He chooses to caucuses with the Democrats.

Voting for a Dem as Majority Leader is a vote that he will gladly make and given the power it bestows, is the most important vote any senator can make.

[BumRushDaShow]

36. See this chart

http://politicsthatwork.com/voting-record/Joe-Manchin-412391

[pnwmom]

19. You're forgetting the OTHER argument. We are close to having Senate control.

If we lose his vote because we soften his support by primarying him, then we are one vote further away from Senate control -- and Senate control is hugely important.

[SaschaHM]

24. I'm shocked that the oversight failures of the Trump era haven't convinced ...

folks that one of the most important decisions is who one caucuses with. Heck, Did people not learn that when Garland wasn't even given a hearing? If you control the schedule, you control the agenda.

[pnwmom]

27. Yeah, I know. When we lost all those DINOs we lost control, and have been suffering ever since.nt

[BigGermanGuy]

23. I believe

manchin was the cloture trade for Murkowski, to signal to flake and Collins to vote no tomorrow.

It had to be moved from debate to vote. I'm a hell of a lot happier to have it be murk no, manchin yes, then the other way around at the moment.

[jalan48]

25. I agree and would add, who represents Democrats in WVA who oppose Kavanaugh?

[pnwmom]

28. Senators are supposed to vote everyone in their state, not just party members. n/t

[jalan48]

31. Right, that's how the Republican's see it for sure.

[karynnj]

33. Except in Maine and possibly elsewhere where the people disagree with the Republicans nt

[k8conant]

30. Here's what's up in WV:

I will still vote for Joe in November because Patrick Morrissey is a Republican and 100% asshole (currently as WV AG) and Joe is a Democrat and only 62% asshole.

I voted for Paula Jean Swearingen in the primary.

In 2020 I will vote for the Democrat who opposes Shelley Moore Capito who is a Republican and 95.1% asshole.

[Fred Sanders]

51. Thanks for the actual reality check! Manchin is just hedging his bets before a NO. Wise.

[a la izquierda]

110. Um how did that work out? Nt

[disillusioned73]

114. They won't touch this now...

the excuse makers have gone into hiding.. in hopes that ppl will forget about this disgusting vote by Manchin... I hope the women of WV don't forget how he turned his back on them.. the media won't cover it, but there was a really good female progressive that challenged him in the primary & was ignored - I hope women fuel her campaign next time - if she chooses to run again..

[a la izquierda]

116. Yep she was, Paula Jean Sweringen.

Thankfully anprogressive woman is running for a House seat, so most women will stay energized (there’s also an awful abortion bill on the WV ballot).
But as for Manchin? He can fuck himself with a rusty spear, as far as this woman is concerned.

[disillusioned73]

117. And I don't blame YOU..

I blame HIM..

That is where we are losing ppl, stop blaming voters for holding officials to a minimal standard.. how many more elections need to be lost b4 they realize this??

[karynnj]

32. You misstate the argument for backing him

It is not that he will be there for important votes -- he often won't be. It is that he will be there for a key vote after the election -- the election of the majority leader. The party that wins that vote - even narrowly - controls the Senate. Contrast the years 2013-2014 to 2015 - 2016. Had we narrowly retained the Senate in 2014, many things would have been far different. For one, it is entirely likely that we would have a Justice Garland on the court. There would have been hearings and he most likely would have been confirmed.

In slightly over a month, we will have an election that could - if everything goes our way give us the majority in the Senate with absolutely no margin to spare. That is the answer to your rant. Manchin will vote for a Democrat (Schumer) -- a Republican will vote for McConnell. Every committee chair will go from a Republican to a Democrat. We will be able to stop many bad things from happening. (getting the House back does this too, but the Senate controls judicial, cabinet and ambassador confirmations. Getting the Senate would be a HUGE thing.)

[louis c]

35. If Manchin wins, and the Democrats have 51 Seantors, we control the committees and the floor

If Manchin loses, and Pence breaks a 50-50 caucus tie, then they get control of all the committees and set the agenda.

Am I upset that Manchin voted wrong? Yes sir, I'm pissed. But I'm not stupid. If we were going to replace Manchin with an Elizabeth Warren type of Senator, I'd say sign me up. But if Manchin loses we get a fucking Trump Republican who caucuses with the Republicans, and that's a backwards step. I refuse to bight my nose off to spite my face.

If we want Democratic Senators from Alabama, West Virginia and Mississippi, we have to cut them a whole lot of slack.

[INdemo]

37. If Joe votes yes,even in Red State he he will lose

because his Democratic voters will stay home.
If he votes no those voters will show up and re-elect him.

[Fred Sanders]

53. Manchin +10 or so in polling...no R will beat him. Not this time. Ruby Red state Democrsts have to

walk a fine line... I am good with Red State Democratic Gold Senators walking a tightrope...that is how they get elected in the first place.

[INdemo]

64. He might lead by 10 it doesnt't matter at this point. He could lead by 20 pts.

If Democrats turn their backs on him and don't show up to vote ..he loses.

he has always voted along with the Republicans...he has always been a Republican Lte or a Republican with a D in front of his name

[Fred Sanders]

65. Of course, so he will vote NO.

[RealityChik]

82. 10+ is no guarantee!

We need LANDSLIDES in every state. Landslides can't be flipped. It will take more than a 10 point lead to hide votes in a trash can or flip final electronic vote tallies.

We need TOO BIG TO FLIP!

[pnwmom]

87. The Democrats didn't elect him without a lot of help from independents.

He has to please a wide spectrum to get to 50%, in a state where 68% went for Trump.

[HopeAgain]

39. This is a time of conscience, not just politics.

Fuck Manchin if he votes for Kavanaugh, that simply makes him a bad person. You wouldn't say "Yes he voted for the Nuremberg racial laws, but we lose the seat to Nazi's if he didn't vote with them..."

[LiberalArkie]

43. Down here in rural Arkansas it is normal to see a Democratic mayor, or judge etc

With all Republican signs in their yard. Since they are good Democratic office holders they always win reelection.

I am sure this is a violation of the TOS.

[Power 2 the People]

45. +1000

It's for votes like these that we tolerate "fence straddling" on other less consequential votes.

[Bear Creek]

46. Jim Justice

They are Republicans but they couldn't run on Republican ticket so they claim to be Democrats. Justice finally changed his party.

[elmac]

47. Anyone who votes with the fascists is a fascist and should be treated as a fascist. nt

[EffieBlack]

52. We need to keep Manchin in so that when we really need him, we have a Democratic vote

Ummmmm ... well .... now would be a good time for that Democratic vote, Senator.

[JCanete]

59. exactly. nt

[Skidmore]

108. But then we get this from him.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/democratic-senator-says-could-support-143517879.html?soc_src=hl-viewer&soc_trk=fb

Democratic Senator Says He Could Support Trump in 2020 Election

Joe Manchin, the Democratic Senator from West Virginia, is breaking with his party in his refusal to rule out endorsing President Donald Trump in 2020.

“I’m open to supporting the person who I think is best for my country and my state,” Manchin told Politico. “If his policies are best, I’ll be right there.”

Trump is an intensely popular figure in West Virginia. He beat Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election by more than 40 percentage points in the state, and a Gallup poll in January found West Virginians approved of Trump more than any other state in the nation....more

[Gore1FL]

56. I don't get why a "yes" vote helps him in November.

I would hope that one could win as a Democrat in WV without voting for an ill-tempered perjuring credibly-accused sexual-assaulter to be a SCOTUS Justice.

[RainCaster]

66. He needs a firm message from the Democratic Party-

If you vote "yes" to Kavanaugh, we will:
* withhold all election funds from your campaign forever more
* begin active measures to recruit a new replacement for your seat
* Actively support that person in the coming election

[Demsrule86]

84. right and turn a Democratic seat over to repugs...and never have a majority...look at the

Senate realistically...without moderates, there will be no majority. Manchin was not the deciding vote.

[Gore1FL]

67. And he just sold old per MSNBC.

Joe "Perjury and Assault are OK if it means you'll vote for me" Manchin just announced that he'll vote to confrim.

[DonCoquixote]

69. per DU just now

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211239255

[Trueblue Texan]

70. I COMPLETELY agree with you!

This is the reason I did not vote for Chet Edwards in the House. He always voted with the Republicans. ALWAYS. Why have him spend our Democratic dollars then throw us under the bus. We need legislators who know they will be held accountable.

[wellst0nev0ter]

75. As far as I'm concerned, he's a warm body for a dem majority

Then again, so was Joe Lieberman back in 2009-2010, and he screwed us every chance he got.

It's not worth it, fuck him.

[RealityChik]

81. Well said! I say, "Save just punishment (or even revenge) for after we win!"

IF WE WIN!! Factoring in the guarantee that the Repubs will flip any close election any way possible, we must assume the "Blue Wave" is as much of a long shot as keeping Kavanaugh off the Supreme Court.

We will only win by winning too big to flip, like Obama in 2008.

[D23MIURG23]

76. He has precisely one use, and it has nothing to do with "keeping powder dry"

He's useful in that he gets us one more seat towards a majority. In order to keep a majority, democrats need to put up with a few useless pieces of crap like Manchin. Next time the dems are in power they should work very hard to get DC and Puerto Rico ratified as states, so that we can kick the useless red state dinos to the curb where they belong.

[onecaliberal]

78. Cut him loose. We can't have people who think men treating women like this is okay on our side.

This shit has got to stop. Kavanaugh will give trump a get out of jail free card, we cannot tollerate this. Manchin stands with a rapist.

[Demsrule86]

83. Nonsense...a Republican would be worse. Why make a situation worse...we need a majority to stop

the Repubs...which mean warm Democratic bodies...we cut our conservadems loose and have not held a majority since. No other way to advance any of agenda and / or stop the Repugs...also no Senate no judges ever.

[pnwmom]

88. No. We could do much more for women and men if we control the Senate than if we don't. n/t

[DonCoquixote]

90. very shaky

although yes, controlling the Senate is important, if the GOP controls the people IN the Senate, it can be just as bad bad, if not worse; how? Because it is one thing to fight an opponent when you are unified, but when you have people within your party, destroying the unity you need, it can cut off your legs before you even get up.

I realize we want the Senate. but yes, we do need to think of some real way that the DINOS (or for that matter, the RINOS) do not meet and sell us out. If we do not do that, then everything we try to do will be stillborn, in the manner that the "good democrat" Joe Liberman made sure healthcare had no crutches.

[pnwmom]

91. If we control the Senate, we control which bills come out of committees and which judges

get voted on. That's bigger than any single bill.

And, yes, Lieberman was a pain in the neck. But better have him caucusing with us than with them. The ACA was better than no ACA, which is where we would have been without Joe Lieberman.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

89. Trump will claim Kavanaugh was confirmed by a "bipartisan vote."

Then he'll take sole credit for the entire process. No one but him could have gotten a man like Kavanaugh (child molester, Roe v. Wade enemy, "the president can do no wrong" ) onto the SCOTUS against massive public objection (50% against in latest Fox poll).

The deplorables will have been screwed big-time, but as long as they have their red hats and beer ("I liked beer, still like beer" ) and can chant, "Lock her up!" at taxpayer-funded rallies, they're happy to live in a cult-like sect.

Donnie Two Scoops will now believe he can do anything, since his ass is covered in the Supreme Court, which has been the bane of his existence. If Congress remains in the hands of the Repukes -- and there's evidence the Russians are back at their dirty tricks to make that happen -- Mushroom Dick will be convinced he has absolute power, mainly because he will.

This is the world the GOP has been creating for the last four decades. They have wanted to overthrow the Constitution since the Reagan years, if not before.

[yardwork]

93. It's about getting the majority, not the single vote.

It's actually shocking and discouraging to me how few people seem to understand our system.

Congress is controlled by whichever party has the majority. The majority party controls all the committees. The committees decide what happens.

Do you want Trump to be investigated? That can't happen unless the Democrats chair the committees and have a majority vote on committees.

We must regain the majority.

[GoCubsGo]

94. I understand that the guy who is running against him is much, much, much worse.

I'm as upset with Manchin as is everyone else. But, I would rather his seat not go to the hands of some Far Right nutcase. Especially, if gaining Democratic control of the Senate is dependent on Manchin keeping his seat. Manchin did what he had to do, and had he voted "no", it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Personally, I'm done wasting my time pissing and moaning about the guy. We have much bigger fish to fry right now, including keeping his lunatic opponent out of the Senate.

[Buns_of_Fire]

95. "So, you want a republican in that seat?"

"No, I want a Democrat. Perhaps someday the people of West Virginia will elect one."

[LadyHawkAZ]

97. Too soon, dude. Too soon.

Give the people a chance to recover from the shock, catch their breath, and figure out how to blame it on Susan Sarandon.

Edit: never mind

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

101. I disagree that rape victims will have to go to the back alleys.

Only the POOR rape victims will have to go to the back alleys. Others will find a reason to go on a shopping trip to Canada, France, etc.

A few rape victims will even fly there on Trump's airplane. Once they sign the non-disclosure agreements.

[handmade34]

102. Seriously??

I can't believe that anyone would turn away a Democratic candidate at this time... I remember 2010 when so many here were boo hooing Obama and thinking about not voting... I had 1 name for all of them... John Boehner...


Folks, this is about numbers right now, not ideology!!!!!! Democrats need to take over committee chairs

[Bradical79]

103. We need to flip a couple states that are not West Virginia

We won't have a real Democratic Senator from there any time soon. Too much delusional thinking over coal, and way too much racism. While I understand the feelings about needing him in the Senate because he is a member of the Democratic Party, I think too much bending over backwards to defend and fund Manchin's regressive behaviour alienates more Democrats elsewhere.

We need to get a couple more real Democrats to counteract Manchin. Wouldn't be surprised to see him flip anyway.

[elocs]

104. I'd rather have a Manchin in a Senate seat that counts towards Democrats controlling the Senate.

Or perhaps a 51/50 or even 50/50 Republican controlled Senate is preferable to the purists.
The Democratic Party needs to have a big tent welcoming of all shades of blue and we cannot afford to tell anyone to get out because they are not blue enough for us.
I'd rather have a Senator or House member who votes with the Democrats most of the time as opposed to a Republican who rarely, if ever, votes with the Democrats.

[JHan]

106. Would 51-49 change the outcome?

[Timmygoat]

107. My thoughts

How many times does Joe Manchin have to vote against his own party, I think it is passed time to cut him loose. I think he lacks a spine, is afraid of the rethugs too.
Also Flake turned out to be someone who is too chicken to vote against republicans, even though he is retiring.

[Nitram]

109. Didn't he just vote YES in the most important vote of the decade?

[cstanleytech]

112. Even if he had voted no the Repugnants could have broken any deadlock

by having Pence cast his vote.
That's not to say that I am thrilled with Manchin but a no vote from him would not have prevented this.

[Trumpocalypse]

115. It's not about how he votes

It's about getting a Democratic majority.

[marble falls]

118. The problem is: if he goes you will get a Republican. Who else is going to stand for his seat?