Does anyone here know what the pro choice movement will do if Roe is struck down?

[CTyankee]

Surely the ACLU, Planned Parenthood and NARAL have thought this scenario through and come up with their own strategies to keep abortion safe and legal.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. If Roe is overturned it will mean states will be able to restrict or ban abortions.

That means the battle moves to state legislatures, which is where the pro-choice movement will have to concentrate its efforts.

[still_one]

5. True, but you can bet if the same power structure is in place they will argue it is not a state

rights issue

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Outlawing abortion would require a constitutional amendment

[still_one]

28. No it wouldn't. The Supreme Court can over turn Roe

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. If the Supreme Court overturns Roe it goes back to the states

Reversing the landmark case would not automatically make abortion illegal across the country. Instead, it would return the decision about abortion legality to the states, where a patchwork of laws already in place render abortion more or less available, largely depending on individual states' political leanings.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/07/10/627666535/if-high-court-reverses-roe-v-wade-22-states-likely-to-ban-abortion

[still_one]

40. Depends on the case they are ruling on

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. If they completely overturn Roe it goes back to the states.

That's what all the scholarship suggests. Could the Supreme Court give a fetus personhood ? Theoretically they could but they aren't going to find anything in common law or the Constitution to support such a position, and that's precisely why constitutional scholars on both the left and right believe it would go back to the states.

[still_one]

45. hopefully we won't have to find out, but the way things have been drifting, I don't think they are

looking for precedent, common law, or the Constitution for support

[irresistable]

54. They could create a Federal law outlawing abortion....

it would be challenged, and the Supreme Court could rule that it is constitutional.

[customerserviceguy]

68. I don't see that happening

You might have something on the 20-week or fetal heartbeat issues, but even then, it might be a squeaker to get past the Supreme Court.

[leftynyc]

30. No, it wouldn't (n/t)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. If Roe is reversed it goes back to the states.

The only way abortion could be outlawed in all fifty states is if a constitutional amendment giving a fetus personhood is passed.

[leftynyc]

53. They will NEVER make

that kind of amendment. Then pregnant women will be able to declare their fetus on their tax returns and there is NO WAY the cons will allow that. Abortion was legal in NY (and I assume other states) before Roe and will remain legal when it's overturned.

[d_r]

59. and if that happened

in reality the abortion rate would be no lower in states where abortion was made illegal than it would be in states where it remained legal. The only result would be that it would put such an undue burden on women in poverty. There would be dangerous back ally abortions again - it boggles my ind the very people who constantly say "if guns were made illegal, then only criminals would have guns" don't see this - and it would cause deaths among poor women.

If these people really wanted to reduce abortion, they would enact policies that reduced women needing them, but we all know that already.

[leftynyc]

65. Unless women can afford

transport to a blue state (and likely a hotel room), they will go back to the alleys. It breaks my heart.

[d_r]

72. Mine too. Nt

[marybourg]

104. It only became legal in N.Y. under Nelson Rockefeller ( a Republican, by the way),

and the enabling statute was not as liberal as Roe v. Wade, so would need to be amended to meet current standards.

[leftynyc]

111. It would be

In a heartbeat.

[CTyankee]

9. My guess is that the SC will find Roe (and Griswold) invalid since there is no enumerated "right

to privacy" in the constitution.

Perhaps Ruth Bader Ginsburg was right: we should have based our argument on "equal protection under the law."

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. If Roe goes down on that basis, it won't just be Griswold.

What about Loving v. Virginia?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Loving was decided on 14th Amendment grounds.

That decision is safe.

[47of74]

48. Well with Rapey Brett and the other conservatives I wouldn't count on that.

They'd probably come up with an excuse to invalidate that if their sugar daddies told them to.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. Clarence Thomas is married to a white woman so I suspect he supports the Loving decision.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

94. You're right. I haven't read that in like a million years

and tended to tie it in with Roe and Griswold.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

95. I am interested to see what happens when the culture goes one way and the Court goes another.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

96. The court pretends to be apolitical but they are very aware of public opinion.

They might try to thread the needle in a way that allows states to restrict but not abolish abortion because they don't want riots in the streets or a perception that they are illegitimate.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

97. Most folks obey the law because they see it as legitimate and fear punishment...

Most folks obey the law because they see it as legitimate and fear punishment for breaking it. We will be in a bad place if the law only derives power from the latter. The Supreme Court doesn't have an army. It relies on moral authority.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

98. Yes, and because the court's decisions are obeyed only because of its accepted but

in most cases unenforceable authority, they can't afford to do something a substantial majority of the people not only disagrees with (that's happened before) but believes to be so utterly wrong and illegitimate that either there are riots in the streets or the decision is just ignored.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

100. Brown was passed in 1954.

Subsequent decisions stated it should be carried out with all deliberate speed. I went to public school in Volusia County, Florida in the 1970s. The public school I went to was still being desegregated under a federal court edict.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

101. "All deliberate speed" meant glacial in some places,

and they got away with it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

106. Because the states saw it as illegitimate, the fact it was legitimate notwithstanding.

[still_one]

29. That is exactly right, the SC could overturn Roe

[TruckFump]

58. So, that means Trump's tax returns are fair game? EOM

[lapfog_1]

77. They will also pass laws making it illegal to go out of state for the purpose of obtaining

an abortion.

And those laws will also be upheld by the SCOTUS (now).

expect women to be arrested at border checks and airport.

I'm not kidding.

[Cerulean Southpaw]

82. Possibly

No constitutional amendment, they just pass a law with something similar to the "transporting women across state lines for immoral purposes" thing in the Mann Act.

They could even try to say they can regulate it under interstate commerce. Interstate commerce gets used like a rubber stamp for almost anything.

I wouldn't put it past them to try anything like that.

[lapfog_1]

85. standard contraceptives might be illegal too (IUDs, the pill, etc)

Kav is on record as believing that these cause the loss of possible pregnancy.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

91. Then they'd also have to overturn Griswold v. Connecticut.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

90. No, that will not happen. The freedom to travel is a fundamental Constitutional right

based on the Privileges and Immunities clause, which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." Freedom of movement has been recognized as a fundamental Constitutional right since the early 1800s. Even the extreme originalists couldn't, and won't, get around this.

I'm not kidding.

[Freddie]

105. You're right

I don’t see how they could ban travel between states.
I see travel agents and motels, Greyhound, Amtrak, airlines profiting from this. Even advertising, what’s to stop them? There *will* be civil disobedience and there’s nothing they can do about it.

[Blue_true]

88. Agreed. That is why state races, even state house races are so important.

And voters need to pay attention. Allowing a republican to be elected in a densely populated area is a loss, because that republican will vote with rightwing rural republicans to restrict women's rights. Any young woman doing a protest vote because the democrat is not her perfect candidate creates roadblocks for herself and other women.

[greymattermom]

2. In coastal states where gambling is illegal

you just take the boat. It goes out in the ocean a few miles, and it's perfectly legal.

[nolabear]

36. LOL! In MS the locals STILL call it "going to the boats."

In Biloxi you had to go beyond the 12 Mile limit, then they decided you had to be out in the water, then the boat could be tied to the dock, then what was actually a “boat” could include multistory buildings somehow adhered to land...I don’t know where the law stands now but they’re still referred to by the old timers as boats.

[maxsolomon]

3. It means Abortion will be limited to solid Liberal states.

it will mean flying women to the coasts.

It's going to be a nightmare, one of many sure to come in the next quarter century.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. In other words, it would be just like before Roe, where most states outlawed abortion

and women who could afford it left the country. Others got illegal abortions, often with bad results.

[maxsolomon]

19. Yep. Except I think it will be worse, somehow.

Because the Anti-Abortion activist networks will feel free reign to persecute women in the states that still allow it. There will be street battles.

And laws will get more punitive and draconian in the states that outlaw it.

[Bettie]

25. I already told my husband that

he should expect me to be driving women to places where they can get the health care they need, since it will likely be illegal in Iowa fairly quickly once Roe is gone.

[47of74]

49. I'm probably going to leave Iowa when I'm done with school.

This state is turning in to a shithole. I hate it.

[Bettie]

78. I'm encouraging my kids to consider

looking elsewhere when they are done with school.

[SharonClark]

109. Don't you think your kids, like most kids, will go where the jobs are?

Regardless of the status of abortion rights in the state?

[Bettie]

110. This state is horrible

for a variety of reasons, all related to right wingers having control.

As the previous poster said, it's kind of a shithole.

Jobs? Not many here.

[nolabear]

37. We may have to create an underground railroad.

Transportation, safe houses, protection, medical follow up care...this is some grim shit but we can do it. Older women can be extremely powerful in that way.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

4. If Roe were to be overturned ...

... each state would still have the option of allowing for abortion within that state. Some states would doubtlessly move to criminalize abortion, but many others no doubt would not.

[scheming daemons]

6. There will be lots of flights and buses to coastal states for young women.

Invest in Greyhound.

[NutmegYankee]

8. If it is struck down, it will be banned nationwide.

This court isn’t going to leave it to the states.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. The court doesn't have the power to make it illegal everywhere

because there are no federal statutes relating to abortion. They do have the power to tell states they can regulate or outlaw it without violating the Constitution.

[NutmegYankee]

17. They will make it a "right to life" issue.

And regulate it under the 14th.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. It would require a constitutional amendment to give a fetus personhood.

The 14th Amendment refers to persons born in the United States:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

[NutmegYankee]

23. Or SCOTUS providing that interpretation...

I don’t think people get the depravity we are up against. They intend to deprive women of their equal status.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. Mississippi anti-abortion 'personhood' amendment fails at ballot box *

59% of Mississippians voted against giving a fetus personhood. Imagine what the numbers would be in the rest of the country. Anything is possible but not only would the Court being going against the popular will but they would have to invent a Constitutional law to do so.

They likely throw it back to the states.









*https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mississippi-anti-abortion-personhood-amendment-fails-at-ballot-box/2011/11/09/gIQAzQl95M_story.html?utm_term=.8ec8fd743427

[Freddie]

108. But as we already know

Popular vote doesn’t mean a thing. The new SCOTUS is just the final nail in permanent minority rule.

[still_one]

42. I think your concern is very valid Nutmeg. Anyone who doesn't think a case won't be brought up

challenging states rights to abortion I think are being naïve

[Greybnk48]

18. Didn't a Native American matriarch say

in the not too distant past that they would move to provide safe abortions on their reservations?

I think that's one thing that may happen.

[leftynyc]

31. No it wont

Abortion was legal in NY before Roe and will be legal if it's overturned.

[NutmegYankee]

79. The court isn't just going to overturn the previous ruling, it will make a new legal argument.

And that new legal argument will give them grounds to either ban it nationally or allow such a law from Congress. That is their goal. This back to states stuff is just wishful thinking. These savage and depraved opponents of a the right to privacy won't stop on their own volition.

[lark]

12. Underground railroad will come back.

I lived in a state where abortion was illegal and even birth control pills were illegal unless you were married. As a Senior in high school, a bunch of us started helping any friend who got pregnant and didn't want to keep it. We'd all give the person $$, even if it was only a few $$. We'd make arrangements to get them to appts. and to the airport and back, if they didn't have transportation. We talked to women all around town and found a few dr's who would refer a pregnant unmarried girl to NY for an abortion and prescribe birth control pills for afterwards and shared this information as needed. Prior to RvW I think there were 8 of us that I now had an abortion utilizing our own underground railroad. I'm sure there were lots of other cases where I wasn't personally involved. So, if that horrible thing happens, while we are working on getting the laws passed in the states, I hope we will again support women that need help.

[nolabear]

39. I posted the same thing. We elder women can be very helpful there.

If we’re looking for power, we can find some in helping our younger sisters be safe and protected.

[lark]

62. Yes!

My daughter is the GM for a co. that hires lots of young women, I'd talk to her about this and am sure she'd be totally onboard as well.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

14. Devil is in the details

Scenario A: Court says that states, not feds, regulate allowable medical procedures. Most likely outcome is abortion is illegal in about 30 states outright; legal in about 10 under specific circumstances; legal as-is in about 10. Groups on both sides will continue to fight at the state level.

Scenario B: Court says life begins at conception, and that Roe was decided in the absence of knowledge and technology we have now. All abortion and some forms of birth control become immediately illegal. Only a CC or rebalanced court could remedy that situation.

[avebury]

20. Only immediate solution to Scenario B would be for wealthy

pro-choice people to then fund programs to allow for women to make it to port cities where they can board freedom ships to sail out into international waters where they can tell the Rethugs to eat shit while they have their procedure.

[bdamomma]

66. Just in case

Abortions are legal in Bermuda.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. Scenario B would likely require a constitutional amendment.

Theoretically the Court can do what it wants but usually the decisions are not totally unmoored from the Constitution.

[avebury]

15. I can picture freedom flights/bus rides to bring

women to safe haven states to have their abortions. Perhaps a pro-choice millionaire/billionaire could buy a few large boats that could be sailed out of anti-choice states so that women could have the procedures done in international waters (for those who have passports). There could be a program where poor young women could apply for funding to obtain their passports as soon as they reach the age of 18 (always be prepared).

[roamer65]

26. It means it will be legal in states like NY, CA, IL, NJ, MI, MN, WA, OR, and the New England states.

It will set up a polarity between the states not seen since the days of slavery.

It will be legal in Canada as well.

The real fun is if the states that pass bans try to prosecute women for getting it done in legal states.
That would harken back to the Fugitive Slave Act days of the 1850’s.

[irisblue]

27. Like before in the early 70's but worse.

Last edited Fri Oct 5, 2018, 01:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Transports to NY state, California, Massachusetts. Passing the hat among women and a few good men to get the money to travel & have the.proceedure.

Self induced abortions & septic shock patients in ERs again. Womens deaths, like the "good old days" the radical RW so fondly remembers.

I remember those not so good days for women.

[ck4829]

32. I'm also worried about the idea of forced abortions

Roe v Wade said there was a right to privacy and due process... yes, they can ban abortion, but when I also see today's conservatives talk about "white genocide", Trump admin officials crowing about Trump having "good genes", seeing the 'other' as animals, wanting to get rid of "anchor babies" and Muslims, and the whole fact that the same people who were screaming about Obama becoming a dictator being just fine with Trump suspending elections as well as the sordid history of eugenics in this country already; that is another reason to be worried about Roe v Wade being struck down.

[marylandblue]

34. It will mean a revitalization of the feminist movement

Which we have already started to see since Trump was elected. We will get back at the ballot box what we lost in court.

[yardwork]

99. I agree with that.

The loss of Roe v Wade as a wedge issue could be a huge net loss for the Republicans. Many evangelicals who currently support Republicans would lose interest in politics.

I don't think there is another issue that would have the same emotional appeal.

It might be too late by then, though. We might not have the vote anymore.

[Johnny2X2X]

38. It will surprise people

Here's what people don't get about, "It will go to the states." The states already have laws on the books that would be in effect, so many states would go back to illegal abortion immediately, some would surprise you. Michigan, for instance, would be illegal. It would be up to state legislatures to then pass laws to make it legal, and the Republicans control a lot of these state legislatures.

I think you will see horrific events if Roe v Wade is overturned. The protests will be violent and extreme, and the country will be ripped apart even further.

[quadtetra]

43. If Roe v Wade is struck, couldn't Congress outlaw abortion?

People say that it just goes to the States. But what's to stop Congress from enacting a Federal law banning it in all States and overriding State laws?

[Azathoth]

55. Depends on how they strike it down

They could decide that regulating abortion falls under the Tenth Amendment and is a power reserved to the States. If I had to guess, that would be the likely approach.

[MichMary]

44. It will mean

50 state-by-state battles. And that may turn out to be a good thing for our side. Nothing will bring out the Dem vote like having choice on the ballot in all those states. I predict that lots of red legislatures will flip to blue, and that will mean good things for redistricting.

[CTyankee]

46. I thought that also was a possibility. It would be a very good turn of events.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. Even in blood red Mississippi a personhood amendment was defeated 60-40.

But the nation would be ill served by a patchwork of laws on a right as basic as controlling one's body.

[Dale Neiburg]

86. That's essentially what happened in Maryland.

Abortion had been illegal, and a proposal to enact Roe-like provisions into state law was turned down by the legislature. Next election, that was a major issue and when the dust cleared we had a significantly different legislature and the legalized abortion.

[eleny]

50. D&C will be provided more often than now

[Hekate]

61. Not many medical students are choosing to become proficient in D&C procedure, because...

Well, iirc, a couple of reasons. With the advent of reliable contraceptives and medications that can cause early abortion or clean up a natural miscarriage, there has been less need for the procedure.

And, just as you might expect, the anti-choice forces have been hard at work tainting it as exclusively about abortions. So medical students in OB-GYN have shied away, not wanting to get caught up in the controversy.

It is a procedure that will always have a place, though. An incomplete miscarriage can cause continuous bleeding for months (happened to my mother, and she was too poor to return to the doctor). Can also cause hemorrhage and lead to sepsis and death. A D&C scrapes out what needs to go.

The procedure can also be deadly in the wrong or inexperienced hands. That's a very sharp curette there, operating in a confined space by touch.

Damn shame about the OB-GYN students. I very much hope this particular trend can be reversed.

[eleny]

64. We'll see what happens when we live in the new paradigm

I'm just remembering how it was "back in the day" before legal abortion. No D&C option? Back alley option.

[elleng]

52. Go to the STATES,

if we're smart.

It really depends on 'HOW' Roe is 'overturned.'

[Hekate]

56. IIUC, it goes back to the states. Women in Texas are SOL, women in California will be okay...

There's more. Many states never took their old laws off the books, and they will revert. Still other states (like Texas) have been chipping away at the full range of women's health care for years, and that includes contraceptives. Some states have only one abortion clinic left in the entire state. Some locations have had to build bunker-like structures and hire guards.

As a Planned Parenthood supporter I try to keep more or less current. Yes, I am sure PP and the rest have plans -- but there is probably little they can do if a particular state outlaws abortion entirely and calls it murder under the law.

The tragedy is that women will still have abortions. They always have. The restrictions strike hardest on the poor, the rural, women with no transportation, women who have to explain why they went to the Big City and were away overnight, teenagers.

The wealthy will have no problem. They never have.

[DFW]

57. There will be a lot of charter flights to States where abortion is still legal

Or else a lot more flights to Canada.

And if any state enacts a law that lets them try any woman who gets an abortion out of state for murder, those states will lose some population, and rightly so.

[Hekate]

63. It falls hardest on the poor, though

[CrispyQ]

60. Challenge any abortion restriction legislation in court

as it violates a women's 13th amendment rights. Why the choice movement doesn't use this argument is beyond me.

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1031&context=facultyworkingpapers

2010
Forced Labor, Revisited: The Thirteenth
Amendment and Abortion
Andrew Koppelman
Northwestern University School of Law, [e-mail]

I. The basic argument
The Thirteenth Amendment reads as follows:
1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

My claim is that the amendment is violated by laws that prohibit abortion. When women are compelled to carry and bear children, they are subjected to "involuntary servitude" in violation of the amendment. Abortion prohibitions violate the Amendment's guarantee of personal liberty, because forced pregnancy and childbirth, by compelling the woman to serve the fetus, creates "that control by which the personal service of one man [sic] is disposed of or coerced for another's benefit which is the essence of involuntary servitude."6

Such laws violate the amendment's guarantee of equality, because forcing women to be mothers makes them into a servant caste, a group which, by virtue of a status of birth, is held subject to a special duty to serve others and not themselves.

This argument makes available two responses to the standard defense of such prohibitions, the claim that the fetus is a person. The first is that even if this is so, its right to the continued aid of the woman does not follow. As Judith Jarvis Thomson observes, "having a right to life does not guarantee having either a right to be given the use of or a right to be allowed continued use of another person's body -- even if one needs it for life itself."7

Giving fetuses a legal right to the continued use of their mothers' bodies would be precisely what the Thirteenth Amendment forbids. The second response is that since abortion prohibitions infringe on the fundamental right to be free of involuntary servitude, the burden is on the state to show that the violation of this right is justified. Since the thesis that the fetus is, or should at least be considered, a person seems impossible to prove (or to refute), this is a burden that the state cannot carry. If we are not certain that the fetus is a person, then the mere possibility that it might be is not enough to justify violating women's Thirteenth Amendment rights by forcing them to be
mothers.

[mtnsnake]

67. Roe will never be struck down, not even by a Supreme Court weighed down with conservative assholes

No matter how much they whine about abortion, the GOP and the right wing think tanks know for a fact that if Roe was ever overturned, it would be doomsday for republicans. More than two thirds of the country supports Roe vs Wade, and the GOP is well aware of that.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

92. That's a good point. Take away abortion and you take away the GOP's favorite wedge issue.

And the Supreme Court, which only pretends to be apolitical, is very aware of public opinion.

[rampartc]

69. my first optimistic post of the week

perhaps technology has progressed past the coat hanger days.

aren't feticide pills available?

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/abortion/the-abortion-pill

[CTyankee]

70. they's probably try to ban RU 486 too...

[rampartc]

71. i don't doubt that

but until that wall is built along the canadian border ,,,,,,,

[d_r]

73. They will try to

Charge women who use it with murder, so I would guess it will replace some back Ally abortions but won't be uses through the mail for fear of prosecution.

[rampartc]

74. i suppose you are right

termination will be restricted to those with the wherewithal to travel.

i can also see a requirement for ultrasounds before and after crossing borders.

[d_r]

75. Oh my God

That's some dystopian nightmare stuff. Or h c g levels.

[DesertRat]

83. Now that's a terrifying thought!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

93. That would restrict a solidly-entrenched constitutional right to travel.

I don't see that happening.

[samnsara]

76. i for one will volunteer to drive women to wherever they can get their services..

… I will open my house for housing...some of us need to become midwives so at least the surgery will be done by someone other than a back alley henchman. We can get an underground rail road established.

[pstokely]

80. an abortion tourism boom?

nt

[DesertRat]

84. Only for women with the money and time off to travel

[McCamy Taylor]

81. Capitalize on it to motivate female voters.

The Right absolutely does not want to outlaw abortion due to the HUGE backlash. They will continue doing what they have always done--picking away at it but never quite reaching their (stated) goal of outlawing it. Because once it is outlawed, Right to Life stays home and Everyone Else votes.

Right to Lifers are total dupes of GOP corporate greed. They are being used. Must suck to have such low IQs. I'll bet they are easy prey for all kinds of scam artists.

[obamanut2012]

87. Marriage Equality will also be overturned, they have stated that

And God knows what else -- they have a literal runner stamp.

[dembotoz]

89. The technology has advanced. It will go underground.

The pills will be reclassified and outlawed. Anticipate a war on drugs folks will go to prison bringing them in.
Would imagine fetuses would need to be put into a system somehow...so they feds could monitor their continued presence. Miscarriage will be looked into.
All kinds of stuff if the evangelicals have their way

[Volaris]

102. No matter what else we do,...

We had better damn well start screaming our heads off about universal healthcare, daycare, and public education.

'but but but that's cradle to grave soshulism'

Well, YOU FUCKERS forced the cradle, didn't you?? Now be good christians and OWN that shit.

Then watch them stammer, yammer, AND LOSE.

If roe is overturned, it will help destroy the Republican party...it will be tantamout to a national-level defibrilation event, where the shock to the heart starts it beating correctly again.

[saidsimplesimon]

103. Over 100 have

been arrested protesting at the Capitol. They have been there for what a year now? Any Senator who votes for Kavanagh should be challenged or donations withheld during their next run for office. imo

[beachbum bob]

107. it won't outlaw abortions, yet. Allows the states to set the restrictions. But outright ban would

be coming from the congress if it would be possible, now it it is not