Stop making defeat a requirement

[angrychair]

I said in an OP yesterday that I would take a break, at least from the Internet but compelled to say this out loud.

When we look at Democrats in red states the refrain is always “well, they have to vote against Bill “X” to get re-elected” why? Because someone said so? That unless a Democrat votes like a republican sometimes he can’t get elected in a red state?

If we are to have any chance at defeating republicans we have to show a commitment to our principles and values. We have be willing to defend who we are on ANY stage, in ANY venue in ANY state. If we don’t believe in ourselves, how can we expect anyone else too?

Our principals and values as Democrats: of inclusiveness and understanding and education and justice, deserve unwavering advocates and we should expect and accept nothing less from our representatives in government.

People don’t want to be told what they want to hear from a politician and then get screwed over, left hanging, because it wasn’t politically convenient at that moment.


I will finish this OP quoting my favorite line from The American President:
“People don’t drink the sand because they’re thirsty, Lewis. They drink it because they don’t know the difference.”

[qazplm135]

1. Ok manchin votes yes

Then what?

We primary him? Who's going to beat him in a primary?

It's wasted energy to be honest.

[angrychair]

2. Not as simple as that

How Manchin votes matters more to the women and young girls of West Virginia than it does to a middle aged white guy in Washington.
That’s my point.

We can’t expect people to believe we care, that they are valued as people, that we really care about women’s reproductive healthcare and their safety, if we are willing to compromise them because it’s politically inconvenient.

It’s not so much one Senator’s vote. It’s about how do we make voters in every state believe we believe, in ourselves and in them? That’s the question we should be asking.

[qazplm135]

3. You aren't going to win over voters

In every state.

[angrychair]

4. Again, not that simple

I don’t expect we would. Does that mean we give up or don’t even try? That we just say we’re Democrats but vote like republicans?

We don’t have to win whole states or every state. We also should never concede or think anything is a forgone conclusion. We are currently running competitive races in states we haven’t had candidate run in for years.

We assume defeat before we even start if we don’t try at all.

I refer again back to that quote, “they drink the sand because they don’t know the difference”

[qazplm135]

6. to some extent yes

we don't have infinite funds or energy. We aren't winning over everyone by gumption, certitude, righteousness or pluck.

There's ALWAYS going to be 30-40 percent who will never agree with us on just about anything.

The reason why they win so consistently, is they DGAF about winning us over. They simply need one more body than we have.
that's it, that's what they focus on, and that's why they win.

they drink the sand because it owns the libs. They aren't just "waiting to be enlightened" by you, they actively detest you and your enlightenment.

[angrychair]

7. They might

But our target audience isn’t the trump voter, they are fucking morons, it’s everyone else.

Caring for the environment doesn’t need to be about saving a butterfly or a mouse, it about ensuring the health and safety of that favorite camping or fishing or hunting spot.
You can convince a 3rd generation coal miner that clean rivers and lakes do matter but not why it matters to me or you but why it already should matter to them. I know that because I have.

We can win but we have to do it by finding out how to show what matters to us actually also matters to them.

That isn’t true of everyone but you don’t need to agree on every issue just enough to make a difference when they vote.

[qazplm135]

11. Again

The focus should be on winning. Not on conversion. Not on convincing every last person we can but enough to win and hold power.

[angrychair]

15. Confused

Who wins when we vote like republicans to be Democrats in hope that republicans like us?
We are so afraid to lose we sell out women and young girls by telling them their sexual assault doesn’t matter, because they were “confused” by who their attacker was.

FYI Manchin said that about Dr. Ford.

You don’t understand the point I’m making at all and that’s fine I guess. So be it.

[Autumn]

5. This is no longer a Democrat/Republican divide. This is any of them who votes for

Kavanah against all women. I know where I stand.

[boston bean]

8. Pipe dreams. We lived this already and got trump. Purity is not a virtue right now.

[angrychair]

9. If you think I'm making a "purity" argument

Than you aren’t actually reading what I’m writing. Please read again.

[qazplm135]

14. You are making there's a whole silent pool

Of progressive voters who just don't know they are until we show them the light.

There aren't. There's a pool of voters who barely pay attention and get moved by shiny objects. We have to be better at showing them some of those shiny objects... enough to get them to the polls to vote for us.

Bill and Barack figured it out...they sold something and got folks on board...but they both forgot it was all temporary and you have to keep waving the shiny objects to keep their attention.

[boston bean]

10. You leave out how the senate works and majorities are attained for democrats.

You are suggesting that people like Manchin need to be voted out of the democratic party when you kniw full damn well we will not get a Kamala Harris, Barack Obama or Bernie sanders elected there.

Please can we get a fucking majority first please and save ourselves to be able to live and fight another day??

[angrychair]

12. Not what I said

Again, please every response I’ve made on my OP before you make blanket statements about what you think I’m saying.

[boston bean]

13. I have read it. And can comprehend.

[angrychair]

17. Ok

I’m sure the women and young girls of West Virginia will understand Manchin saying Dr. Ford was “confused” about her attacker and then voting to confirm the drunk asshole that raped her.

[boston bean]

19. They will decide.

[aikoaiko]

16. Manchin is better than a Republican

Maybe not today or this weekend, but on most days.

[angrychair]

18. It's not just about Manchin

It’s about trying to go about how to be Democrats in red states and still be Democrats.

They are not mutually exclusive conditions.

[aikoaiko]

20. Ok, I can go with that.

You used the word "we" a lot in your OP, but Democrats come in many different flavors include Joe Manchin flavor -- bitter though it may be at this time.

Sure we have a platform, but fidelity to every statement is not required. Homogeny is a losing strategy for Democrats.