Manchin can mean the difference betweeen Schumer & McConnell for majority leader, Feinstein Chair of

[Jersey Devil]

the Judiciary Committee, and so on down the line. We need him to get re-elected and he did what he thought was necessary to get re-elected. He is in forken West Virginia for Chrissakes and it is a miracle that a Democrat can get elected as dog catcher there, let alone the US Senate.

[we can do it]

5. Well that's just dumb

[JI7]

7. you don't care about actual having what it takes to stop kavanaugh

?

[Jersey Devil]

9. You should care about the big picture

I agree that Manchin is a dick, but we will need him to reach a majority. If we had 60 Senate seats I'd agree with you, but we do not.

[LonePirate]

2. I'm not convinced he will remain a Democrat if Dems win back control of the Senate 51-49.

[PoliticAverse]

10. Mayhbe not, but I'm sure the Republican he is running against now would remain a Republican. n/t

[empedocles]

60. Stating the obvious!

[lancelyons]

63. There would be no difference between voting for Manchin or a Republican. They both do the same thing

[OilemFirchen]

79. Manchin votes with the Democrats 77% of the time.

Fuck false equivalencies.

[JI7]

12. so why not just switch now when it would most help him ?

[qazplm135]

28. depends

is Trump going to win again...maybe he switches, if not, he isn't...why would he switch just to go back to irrelevance (and hatred) two years later?

[pnwmom]

55. How would it help him to go to the minority? n/t

[LonePirate]

57. I think he changes parties after the election.

[pnwmom]

58. If we had the majority, why would he make that change? Why would he join the minority? n/t

[rpannier]

75. He has stated repeatedly over the years he will never switch

If he were going to, he'd have done it by now and gotten re-elected by 40 or 50% and the Democrats would be effectively shut out.

[lapfog_1]

3. Maybe I'll feel different tomorrow... or the next day

but today... fuck him.

[calimary]

54. I sure do know how you feel!

[Drunken Irishman]

4. lol

[Autumn]

6. This is bigger than that. This is everyone voting for Kavanah against all women

I don't see how that can hold. I think he just lost that seat, women will not stand for this.

[bluestarone]

8. NEED a good DEM to run against his ass

[PoliticAverse]

15. Primaries are over. Manchin won.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_West_Virginia%2C_2018

[scheming daemons]

19. That can't happen until 2024

Primaries are over.

[Awsi Dooger]

34. That replacement Democrat might manage 35% in 2024

I don't think many people realize how far right West Virginia has shifted. Hillary managed a whopping 26% there in 2016. Yes, 26%

Compare to 43% in Texas or 38% in Missouri or 27% in Utah

Granted, the coal mining jobs bullshit from Trump dropped Hillary below where she otherwise would have been. But that state is so far gone it is indeed a semi-miracle that Manchin remains.

I won't be surprised if he shifts to Republican before 2024, when he has to face a presidential voting cycle again. He did get 60% in 2012.

[Codeine]

43. Who will then lose the general election

and we slide down in numbers.

How exactly does that help us?

[pnwmom]

56. Trump carried WVA with 68% of the vote. Any Democrat good enough for DU

would fail miserably in WVA.

[Bettie]

11. Depends on what McConnell and That Orange Pustule

offer him to change parties the day after the election.

[Thrill]

13. This vote wouldn't have cost him the election

He’s a piece of shit. All he does is hold Democrats hostage. Even when they are in power.

[WeekiWater]

18. He doesn't appear to be the "hostage" type like some others.

I think many other “centrists” go for payoffs more often than Manchin. I imagine Collins state will see some nice glitter in upcoming legislation.

[Jersey Devil]

21. Who did he vote for as majority leader when Harry Reid held the position?

He voted for Reid and he will vote for Schumer if we have 51 Democratic Senators.

[Thrill]

32. Big part of the reason the recovery act wasn't stronger

And Obamacare. Always has to be the one in back room negotiations with Republicans. They’ll never get real Progressive legislation with this guy in there

[Jersey Devil]

33. He voted against the skinny repeal of Obamacare just like the other Democrats

You have to learn to walk before you can run. Right now we are in the minority and cannot pass anything whatsoever. With him we can. Sure, he may cause some of it to be watered down, but it would be a hellova lot better than it is now.

[turbinetree]

25. I can still remember when Ben Nighthorse Campbell switched parties

as a Native I felt betrayed...........no matter what he and others did, he was voted in as a democrat not as a republican ..............1995

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/414465/GEORGIA-CONGRESSMAN-SWITCHES-PARTIES---HES-NOW-A-REPUBLICAN.html

[JI7]

14. trolls want republicans to control congress

[mr_liberal]

16. Agreed. He did the right thing. nt

[BlueStater]

65. Voting for an attempted rapist is never the right thing.

Like Joe Lieberman, Manchin will always be a piece of shit to me until the end of his days.

[DeadLetterOffice]

70. The hell he did.

You tell that to all the women he is betraying by voting to confirm this anti-abortion, anti-disabled, lying, drunken, sexual abuser, "mr." liberal.

[Jake Stern]

83. Not buying it

Joe Donnelly, Claire McCaskill and Heidi Heitkamp along with Doug Jones of Alabama are following their consciences and voting nay.

They're all Dems in Trump lovin' cherry red states, some are locked in super tight election battles themselves, and yet they did the REAL right thing and refused to allow their reputation be soiled by voting for a rapist.

[SubjectTrip]

17. I'm still not understanding the logic...

That a yes vote guarantees his re-election in WV in November.

[scheming daemons]

22. Because his state is 70-30 in favor of a yes vote

[TNLib]

20. He is ahead by a good margin I think he could have weathered the storm of a no vote

But either way I don't think he's loosing he seat anytime soon.

[Jersey Devil]

24. Maybe, but then again maybe not. His assessment is not to rock the boat

I assume he knows his constituents and that his phone and mail have given him an indication of what they want. He is an elected US Senator. You don't get there by being a dope politically.

[at140]

46. Manchin is ahead by 8 points in polls where tRump won by 42 points

Joe had no other choice if he wants to get re-elected. Sad but true in WV.

[rpannier]

74. Almost all polling in WV showed the people in the state supported it by 2:1

8 points is not a lot in a state that is solidly the other party

[Tactical Peek]

23. If

If less than two Republicans vote against Kavanaugh then it makes no difference which way Manchin votes, it's a throwaway. He should use a tough vote when it counts, like against repealing the ACA.

If there were two more Blue Dog Democrats like Manchin in the Senate now, then the Democratic Majority Leader would never even schedule a visit for Kavanaugh, forget about a hearing or a vote.

[Jersey Devil]

26. Exactly right

and if a Kavanaugh did slip through it would be certain that any FBI investigation would not be a sham. Just think about how different these hearings would have been if DiFi has been the chair of the judiciary committee.

[vi5]

27. Nope. Sorry. Done with the excuses.

Voting no would not have cost him his seat or this election. It's yet another bullshit excuse in a career filled with bullshit.

We have zero proof that he will either remain a dem or caucus with dems, or vote for Schumer for leader.

[Jersey Devil]

29. And you are more expert on West Virginia politics than Manchin?

Do you think that maybe he got elected as a Democrat in a flaming red Republican state by being a dope politically?

[Jersey Devil]

31. He voted against repeal of ACA, he voted for Dems as leaders in the Senate when we had the majority

His vote this time was not the deciding vote and may have been cast for political reasons. If he was the deciding vote then I would agree with you, but he was not.

[angrychair]

44. He just to to appoint

A guy that will repeal the ACA so his vote was pointless

[Garrett78]

35. He already had a double digit lead. He didn't have to insult Dr. Ford.

Nor did he have to overlook the dozens of lies under oath.

[Jersey Devil]

36. I remember when Christie Whitman was trailing Jim Florio by double digits for governor of NJ

I think Florio was ahead by 11 points something like 2-3 weeks before the election. Florio lost. Polls more than a month before the election mean very little in my opinion. Don't forget that Manchin's phone and email were probably loaded with calls from constituents and he has been out there talking to them. I would bet he has a much better idea of what his constituents want from him than you or I do.

[Garrett78]

37. And I suppose they told him he should tell Dr. Ford that she's confused.

Anyway, we'll see if his 12-point lead in the polls goes up or down.

[Jersey Devil]

38. Don't know what they told him, but then again

neither do you. It is easy to put yourself in someone else's position when you don't know all the facts. But if we had to walk a mile in his shoes I think we might find that that the path isn't as easy as we sometimes think.

[Garrett78]

39. He could have voted yes without insulting Dr. Ford and you know it.

[Jersey Devil]

40. What insult?

He said this:

“I have reservations about this vote given the serious accusations against Judge Kavanaugh and the temperament he displayed in the hearing. And my heart goes out to anyone who has experienced any type of sexual assault in their life."

http://wvmetronews.com/2018/10/05/manchin-votes-yes-on-kavanaugh-procedural-vote/

[Garrett78]

41. The one I mentioned in post #37, about which there's a separate thread.

[Jersey Devil]

42. Saw that, but no where in his statement does he say she was "confused"

I would have to see an actual statement where Manchin said that before getting pissed at him for it. So far all I have seen is a tweet by someone saying he said that.

[Autumn]

82. Do you think the Women's March would lie?

[Jersey Devil]

85. The tweet itself was anonymous

I have no idea who sent that tweet, where or when they heard Manchin supposedly saying Ford was "confused". For all I know the person who sent it had that conclusion based on Manchin's vote and nothing else.

Again - where did Manchin say this and when?

Just because someone from the Women's March tweeted it doesn't make it so.

[pecosbob]

45. Yesiree, I love a 61% voting record /s

[Honeycombe8]

50. I know. But it's better than even a moderate Repub's 83% voting record. And it helps the Dems...

get the majority.

As much as we hate it. A real Democrat can't get elected there, apparently. He won't get re-elected if he doesn't vote how the majority of his constituents want.

I hate him for doing this. But it's better than having a Repub in that seat.

[pecosbob]

52. 's the only reason I don't already have a torch in one hand and a pitchfork in the other.

[Honeycombe8]

53. I know. I think we all feel that way.

I'm so disheartened, sad, and VERY angry.

[Honeycombe8]

47. I'm disheartened & so sad about this. But you are right. A bad D is better than no D.

It does go into helping the Dem Party get the majority.

[videohead5]

48. Phil Bredesen

Came out today and said if he could vote he would vote for Kavanaugh. He has no choice if he wants to win. He has to get Republican votes to win. Hillary won only 3 counties in the state of Tennessee. Davidson County which contains Nashville and Shelby County which contains Memphis and one other little county I can't remember. The thing he won't do is vote to repeal Obamacare and throw 23 million people off their insurance. Marsha Blackburn will without hesitation.

[Jersey Devil]

51. Exactly why it is so important for him to get re-elected

He was a "no" on ACA repeal and will be there on the important stuff when we need him.

[bucolic_frolic]

59. He was given the luxury of not being the deciding vote

If he were, he might have gone the other way. No easy choices sometimes.

[rpannier]

76. Yep

And he made sure he was not the deciding vote by being conveniently out of the room when they first called his name

[still_one]

61. Perhaps, but at this time because of what just transpired I will give leeway to those expressing

their anger and frustration toward Manchin on his vote.


As the picture becomes clear with the midterms, and whether Manchin is or is not needed for a majority, that shouldn't change the calculation. The way to change things in West Virginia is to challenge him in the primaries in 2020. The only thing doing this now before the midterms will accomplish is cutting our nose off to spite are face.


Sometimes the best course of action is to wait until everything is lined up in your favor before taking actions

[k8conant]

80. We can't challenge him in primaries until 2024...

[still_one]

89. you are right, but nothing will change that barring him not finishing his term. If somehow the

fates are with us, and we don't need him for a majority in 2018, it would still be to our advantage to think with our minds instead of our hearts, and if and when the time is right then make our move. Trying to force Manchin to become a republican at this time would buy us nothing, and not accomplish anything

Let's do it on our terms.

If somehow we get the majority in the Senate, we can make a living hell for the republicans and the trump administration for the next two years, including investigations that will expose what this criminal enterprise has been covering up for the last two years.

Most important, we can prevent another SC appointment

[lancelyons]

62. Manchin is doing what his constituents want. They are all trump supporters.

This is not a senator that is helping us dems. He is helping his trump supporters.

He does not vote with what is the right thing to do, he votes for his trump supporters and to keep his job.

Any republican can do what Manchin is doing. No net difference for the Dems.

[k8conant]

81. We are NOT all "trump supporters."

and we didn't want this.

[lancelyons]

92. And yet you are getting it power thrown down your throat.

The GOP is kicking azz and not taking names. Call them deplorable or whatever. Its ruthless winning.

We better stop bringing butter knifes to a gun fite

[ZeroSomeBrains]

64. As angry as I am at him...

It's nothing compared to my anger at collins. As a sexual assault victum she showed udder contempt towards those of us who have been similarly afflicted.

Machin would've voted no had she voted no. We need his vote to win the senate back in 2018. I am in a similar state that I was when 45 was elected but we cannot feel dispair. We must stay united and have a giant blue wave in 2018 and 2020. Allow this anger to be channelled into action that the Republicans will fear for many elections to come.

[Power 2 the People]

66. Wasn't Jay Rockefeller a Democratic Senator from WV from 1985-2015??

Democrats can win there if they run on traditional Democratic values.

[Kaleva]

73. Yes. Pro-coal Rockefeller was Senator of that state.

"After having been portrayed in 1972 as insensitive to mining, Rockefeller did not let that happen again. Four years later he ran as a supporter of strip mining and won the governor's mansion. And while he has supported coal mine safety legislation and other items that have not been popular with coal executives, the miners themselves have seldom had cause to complain about him since....

He said the mine workers fully support Rockefeller's legislative agenda on behalf of coal, including his planned reintroduction later this month of the "Stationary Source Regulations Delay Act," which would put a two-year stay on Clean Air Act permitting requirements for nonvehicle sources of CO2. Banig said the delay would help protect jobs.

"Green jobs quite frankly don't exist," he said. "By and large, if those coal jobs disappear, those are the best paying jobs in those areas."

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/gwire/2011/01/18/18greenwire-jay-rockefeller-the-evolution-of-a-coal-state-s-4772.html?pagewanted=3

[rpannier]

78. He didn't run last time because he was way behind Caputo in early polling

[k8conant]

84. Jay Rockefeller retired from the Senate...

He would have beaten Shelley Moore Capito in 2014.

[Power 2 the People]

88. The man served WV 30 years and won re-election 4 times.Never by less than 27 percentage points.

He got 63% of the vote in 2008 when McCain won the state by 13%. The last poll taken before Rockefeller announced his retirement showed him trailing Capito only 48%-44%.The problem is that he was 75 years old and ready to retire. Would it have been a tough fight in the political climate of 2014? Absolutely. But history tells me he knew how to win in West Virginia.

Both Rockefeller and Manchin prove a Democrat can win in that state. Now we must find one that will fight for our values and vote our values. The Democratic Party is the party of the people. We just need a leader to unflinchingly remind and inspire what was once a solid blue state.

[MFM008]

67. I dont trust him

To vote with us.

[BlueStater]

68. He's an asshole and I won't cut him any slack for his pitiful cowardice.

Tester, McCaskill, and Donnelly, all senators up for election in solid red states, will not be voting for this scumbag. I've thought of Manchin as a craven weasel for years now, but he's an even worse person than I thought he was.

[FlyingCloud]

69. Respectfully

It’s not worth it. He’s not worth it.

[DeadLetterOffice]

71. Agreed

[Roadside Attraction]

72. What you say makes sense . . . but . . .

I'm still drinking a lot tonight.

Back in the battle tomorrow.

[Jersey Devil]

87. Yeah, I understand

A lot of the anger vs Manchin is caused by the heat of the moment. In a few days hopefully things will calm.

[Meadowoak]

77. Can't trust him, he may well vote for McConnell.

[musicblind]

86. I would rather than a soft D than no D at all. n/t

[Sqee]

90. I expect him to jump ship if it swings power back to the Repugnants.

No way he stays a Dem if he can change it back. No way he votes for Schumer.

[Jersey Devil]

91. He voted for ACA, against repeal of ACA

That alone makes him valuable to the Democrats.

Just having him in office as a Dem would give us the chairmanships of all the committees. I don't care who he votes for as majority leader. It won't matter.