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Azathoth

(4,610 posts)
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 06:28 PM Oct 2018

We should remember that we were never going to win this

Democratic senators went into these hearings expecting to lose. Without a majority voice on the committee, all they could do was fight the good fight and decry standard-issue Republican corruption: hiding documents, refusing to follow up on questionable statements made under oath, etc. Booker's Spartacus moment was great red meat for the election, but I don't think any serious observer believed it would flip Republican senators, or even conservative Democratic ones. Really, all we had was the remote hope that both Collins and Murkowski would get cold feet at the specter of Roe being overturned. But even that was a near-impossible scenario because 1) Collins never really cared about Roe, she only cared about appearing to care; and 2) Kavanaugh has a relatively clean record on Roe for a right-winger (his comment about it not being "settled law" because the court can reverse itself is technically correct and doesn't really speak to how he would vote).

This was a done deal until Christine Ford came out of the woodwork and changed the game. Suddenly, we weren't just talking about Republican political misbehavior but about whether this guy was fundamentally fit to sit on the bench -- any bench. In hindsight, though, despite changing the game, Ford never really had a shot at winning it.

Consider: the FBI only interviewed six people, and one of them claimed that Ford's friend had contacted her to "clarify" her statement. The friend who allegedly did that was the same FBI agent that Ford's supposed ex-boyfriend claimed Ford helped coach to pass a polygraph. So right away we've got this ex-boyfriend's letter to the committee trashing Ford, and now we've got Ford's friend allegedly tampering with one of the witnesses. Is there an honest explanation for all this? Sure. Was Kavanaugh's crew doing the same kind of stuff? Yup. Are any of these people lying? Maybe, but then again, maybe Ford is too. The FBI investigation was a joke, but even if it hadn't been, any prosecutor will tell you that a case built solely on the testimonies of the victim and a web of secondary, circumstantial witnesses is a shit sandwich. Accounts conflict, people misremember, all kinds of credibility issues and ulterior motives pop up -- problems that are magnified to the nth degree when the event in question took place almost 40 years ago. It's likely that a more thorough investigation not only would have helped corroborate Ford's story, but also would have turned up even more stuff that Republicans could use to discredit her.

So Ford was in a situation where a majority of the jury *wanted* to disbelieve her, it was almost impossible for her to prove her case, she had witnesses saying things that undermined her, and she also faced the biggest problem of all: this happened in high school. Anita Hill's claims were about Thomas' behavior when he was already a judge. That went right to his professional fitness. But most people want to believe that their bad behavior from high school shouldn't follow them into their fifties. For most of us, that means things like doing drugs and wearing hideous clothes. But even something as bad as drunkenly holding a girl down and trying to pull her clothes off falls into the category of "bad shit from childhood" for many middle-aged people. I've heard comments like this in more than a few conversations; it really strikes a nerve with people. It's not misogyny per se, they just don't like feeling that high school mistakes could suddenly ruin their lives when they're approaching retirement age.

The bottom line is there was never any plausible scenario where Ford won and Kavanaugh lost (outside of the White House withdrawing his nomination for PR reasons). And while that's tragic, it put us right back where we started: facing a battle we knew we were going to lose but had to fight anyway. On the bright side, Kavanaugh will be as damaged as any Supreme Court justice we've ever had. He's facing perjury investigations and potential impeachment votes and he hasn't even reached the court yet.

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We should remember that we were never going to win this (Original Post) Azathoth Oct 2018 OP
While i see 2 possible MFM008 Oct 2018 #1
And if it hadn't been him it would have been someone else just as conservative. The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2018 #2
Just a big show..with all the private meetings with Flake,Collins,Murkowski INdemo Oct 2018 #3
What it comes down to now is making it about the Republicans losing Snake Plissken Oct 2018 #4
Dr Blasey Ford has done an incredible service renate Oct 2018 #5

MFM008

(19,818 posts)
1. While i see 2 possible
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 06:30 PM
Oct 2018

Impeachments in maggots future, how much damage can the drunk do until we can start investigating him?

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,735 posts)
2. And if it hadn't been him it would have been someone else just as conservative.
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 06:37 PM
Oct 2018

If his confirmation had failed they'd have dragged some other troglodyte from the bowels of the Federalist Society who'd be just as certain to vote to overturn Roe v. Wade and hand goodies to corporations. The Supreme Court was "lost" when Trump was elected. Kavanaugh has enough skeletons in his closet to populate the anatomy departments of every medical school in the country, but his votes will be the same as if he had spent his entire life in a monastery (oh, wait... bad analogy... but you get the idea). So we're stuck with this guy, and with Gorsuch and Thomas and Roberts and Alito, until they retire or die. The entire FBI "investigation" was a charade intended to give a few senators political cover but in the end the result is what it was always going to be.

INdemo

(6,994 posts)
3. Just a big show..with all the private meetings with Flake,Collins,Murkowski
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 07:03 PM
Oct 2018

Last edited Fri Oct 5, 2018, 08:04 PM - Edit history (1)

and Manchin it was just a show. They fed the Democrats crumbs.. Flake would announce yes, Murkowski announced a NO vote and this gave the stage and spotlight to Collins. she gave her Trump speech obviously drafted/written by Don McGahn and with her yes vote Manchin was in the clear and he could vote either way and it wouldn't matter but he chose to vote with his right wing friends..

Susan Collins knew from day one how she would vote..She just wanted the spot light

Manchin should have just kept his f^&kg mouth shut and should not have commented about Dr. Ford. or said she was confused...Not only did he vote with the Republicans he sided with the Fascists when it came to discrediting Dr. Ford.

Snake Plissken

(4,103 posts)
4. What it comes down to now is making it about the Republicans losing
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 07:08 PM
Oct 2018

And yes they have plenty to lose

People need to see exactly who and what these fuckbags are.

We can not continue to allow them to continue hiding under their rocks, and this week did expose some of their ugliness.


Will that translate to votes on Election Day , I sure the fuck so, because if it doesn't I have no idea what will wake people up.

renate

(13,776 posts)
5. Dr Blasey Ford has done an incredible service
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 07:11 PM
Oct 2018

We were never really going to avoid getting a conservative Supreme Court.

But with this guy, thanks pretty much entirely to her (and to the Democrats who did the best they could with the information she provided), millions of women and men are fired up in a way that normally wouldn’t happen with midterms. Also, he committed blatant perjury... Time will tell how long his stay on the court will be.

The Republicans have been flung their red meat, and probably cared more about ending Roe v Wade than about anything else, so maybe enough of them will be sated that it could affect the midterms in our favor.

This sucks so much and is a grotesque reflection of what our country has become, but it’s probably the best outcome we could get.

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