Honeymooners shaming

[Athenapallas]

I believe in the Me Too movement. I also believe Senator Al Franken got railroaded.

Today I lost a online friendship because of the TV show the Honeymooners. Jackie Gleason's show. More importantly if Ralph was abusive to Alice.

The person's view point was Ralph was yelling "bang! zoom! to the moon!" Showed signs of abuse .

Me. Maybe it was the Italian family I grew up in you yell, swore, threaten, vented then 5minutes later your making food like nothing was wrong. So I told her I didn't see it that way. I saw it as Ralph having to admit he was wrong. If she watch the show again she'd see Alice went for to toe with Ralph in the yelling matches. That she actually was the one who "wore the pants" in the sense she basically fixed Ralph's screw up and often times the Bang! Zoom! To the moon was his hitch that Alice called him on his bullshit and she was right and he had to swallow his ego to admit it.

She blocked me as a friend after telling me I come from a family of abusers.

My question is should we be judging old TV/movies to our standard of today? Is this the new form of book banning?

Please note I am on my tablet and autocorrect is like overdrive on this thing.

[X_Digger]

1. Textbook example of 'presentism'- judging past events as though they were in the present.

See also, "Baby, it's cold outside." w/r/t consent, "Adventures in Babysitting" w/r/t LGBT slurs, etc.

[clementine613]

2. I don't know about your larger question...

... but in terms of the Honeymooners, it was very clear that while Ralph was all bluster, he never actually laid a hand on her. It was also very clear where the power in the couple was -- and it was NOT with Ralph.

[aikoaiko]

3. I think a lot of us are working things out with our family and friends on social media.

Its hard, but things are being said that have needed to be said for a long time.

Some people may go too far whether it be trying to promote awareness or denial.

I try to be respectful and stay open to relationships coming back around.

[Athenapallas]

6. Thank you I will. You make a good point

[Atticus]

4. Entirely agree with your take on "The Honeymooners". And, no, we should not judge 60 year

old TV shows by today's higher standards. It is nonsense like your online friend is peddling that small minds thrive on.

[Demovictory9]

22. I hate those 1930s - 40s spanky our gang shows. the black kids were

treated like 2nd class citizens. had to stay outside, wore rags tied in their hair. I know it was the time... but painful to watch

[BlueTsunami2018]

5. The Honeymooners is one of the best shows ever.

Alice was the smart one, the strong one, the one who got Ralph out of all his dopey schemes. He always acknowledged it at the end of every episode.

She’s never backed down or cringed away from his moon shot threats, she stood up to him and backed him down.

I just can’t deal with people like your friend. They ruin everything for everyone.

[Sanity Claws]

7. Is that really the question?

I see the question as, how did the two of you put so much into an argument over a show that is more 60 years old?

Anyway, addressing the question you did ask, I see nothing wrong with analyzing a show and seeing the underlying cultural assumptions behind it. The underlying cultural assumptions have changed in the interim 60 years.
No one said the show should be burned or banned. People just finally see things that were there all along.

[Athenapallas]

8. She aS in her post. I told her my view point then the block came

It just made me question myself.

[brush]

9. Dispute resolution is in order. Talk with your friend and say you both over...

reacted to a comedy not a documentary. The "bang, zoom, to the moon" line was for laughs.

[RockRaven]

10. I find myself cringing at a lot of pop culture stuff from as recently as the 90's

But not being as amused by, or being made uncomfortable by, tv or movies which are socially inappropriate by todays standards is fine. That's sensibility not censorship.

There is a large gulf, I think, between avoiding once-popular material because it is not enjoyable nowadays and trying to prevent other people from being exposed to it.

We should judge old shows by todays standards if the question is "is this funny?" or "do I want to watch it?" but not if the question is "can we put this on the air?" because one of the things conveyed by airing this older material is not only the content but the context of "this is what was popular then."

Nobody except the very daft would see an episode of the Honeymooners today and think that the airing of it was an endorsement of the behaviors therein. Hell, most of the TV shows being made today contain behavior which is explicitly not condoned by the people watching nor the people making the show.

[wishstar]

11. As a sensitive kid, I was not bothered by Ralph's outbursts but refused to watch 3 Stooges violence

The 3 Stooges physical violence, especially hits in the head was never the least funny but disturbing to me decades ago, but we enjoyed the Honeymooners.

I also grew up in a large Italian extended family where vocal outbursts and ridiculous arguments were the norm along with laughter and camaraderie.

[Polybius]

17. The 3 Stooges was more like fake comedic violence though

Like when Moe saws Curley's head and the saw's teeth break. It wasn't like it was realistic at all.

[thucythucy]

12. I loved the Honeymooners as a kid growing up

because it was the only show on TV that featured a family something like my own. They didn't live in some posh suburban mini-mansion and weren't all white bread like Leave it to Beaver, Donna Reed, Andy Griffith, My Three Sons, etc. etc. All those shows made me feel poor and inadequate--I mean, how many of us had doctor/fathers and a mother who cooked while wearing pearls? So I grooved on how working class Ralph and Alice and Norton and Trixie were.

The "bang zoom" thing never bothered me, for all the reasons already stated. I was more bothered by all the times episodes of "I Love Lucy" ended with Ricky spanking Lucy--literally pulling her over his knee and wailing on her ass. Like his adult wife was a ten year-old. Spousal abuse played for laughs.

But these are all documents of a (happily) by-gone era. That we're even having this discussion I see as a sign of the progress we've made, despite the last two years of back-sliding into WASP male dominance.

[keithbvadu2]

13. America's Funniest Videos type shows love folks getting hit in the crotch.

America's Funniest Videos type shows love folks getting hit in the crotch.

[WhiteTara]

14. Sorry, I have to agree that he was abusive.

So was Archie Bunker; but yes that was decades ago; but truth is truth. You can still think it's funny, but accept the reality of domestic abuse.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. People knew what abuse was then as well as they do now.

In some families, yelling is abusive. In others, it’s not. Men yelling before they can settle down and be reasonable is immature at best and abusive at worst. I’m not a fan of blowhards or lots of yelling IRL or in my entertainment.

[Hoyt]

16. In think some people are so stupid they get the wrong idea about Ralph, or others,

talking like that. I do agree Alice ran the show, but too many stupid people believe folks like Ralph and trump are the way real men should act or, worse, are entitled to act.

[bobbieinok]

18. I always found his treatment of his wife upsetting.

[msongs]

19. never understood what she ever saw in him that made her marry him nt

[nini]

20. She sounds a bit abusive herself

She insults you and your family then blocks you so you cant discuss it?

Bye Felicia. No reason to fret over her. But to answer the ralph question.. i agree with you. He was a typival character back then of a bumbling man. Yet he was really loved his wife and always admitted he was wrong.

[Coventina]

21. Both characters were abusive and in a toxic relationship.

I hated that show.

[Raine]

23. I never really cared for the "bang zoom to the moon" thing but

Last edited Fri Oct 12, 2018, 03:20 AM - Edit history (1)

really Alice was the boss and had Ralph wrapped around her little finger. The "to the moon" was how a guy like Ralph who wasn't comfortable with flowery words expressed his love for her IMO. Ralph was crazy about Alice and always followed up with "baby you're the greatest. The "to the moon" made me uncomfortable but I was seeing it decades after it originally aired so it was a different time and I take that into account.