Hurricane Michael ravaged Tyndall Air Force Base. But it will reopen, Bill Nelson vows

[malaise]

http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#section/5089/article/p2p-108429197/

TALLAHASSEE — Tyndall Air Force Base, where pilots train to fly the F-22 stealth fighter, won’t be abandoned because of major damage from Hurricane Michael, U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson vowed Monday.

Speaking to reporters at Tallahassee International Airport, Nelson sought to dismiss concerns that the storm-battered base outside Panama City will follow the path of what had been Homestead Air Force Base, which was heavily damaged by Hurricane Andrew in 1992 and subsequently became an Air Force Reserve base.

“I think that fear is unfounded,” Nelson said. “As a senior member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, I can say that Tyndall will be rebuilt, and it will be an example of a modern U.S. Air Force base. That is because it is critically located right next to one of our greatest national assets, the Air Force Eastern Gulf Test and Training Range, which is the largest testing and training range for the United States military in the world.”

On Friday, Nelson joined U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., and U.S. Rep. Neal Dunn, a Republican from Panama City, in a letter to Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson and Pentagon Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein showing support for rebuilding Tyndall.

“Each of us stands ready to work with the Air Force to rebuild Tyndall AFB and advocate for the resources needed to do so,” the lawmakers wrote.
More at link

[lapfog_1]

1. I heard a report that billions of dollars may have been lost

because the air force didn't move all of the F-22s out before the hurricane hit.

Has there been any more new on this?

The F-22 cost around $339M per aircraft... and the report was as many as 20 of them were left in a hanger that was destroyed.

[malaise]

2. Truth will out

Normally every aircraft would be over.

The lid will blow shortly and the incompetence will be exposed

[lapfog_1]

5. I mean, how hard is it to move like 50 aircraft that can fly supersonic

even if you have to bus the pilots back from flying the first group a few hundred miles... to fly the other ones.

What we are going to hear is that the ones left there were in maintenance or something and couldn't be flown.

[Achilleaze]

23. "Well done, you gnarly, draft-dodging KGOP republican wanker moles." - Poo T. Poot (KGOP Overlord)

[haele]

30. Considering the down time/repair rate for F-22s...

I wouldn't doubt that a good quarter to third of the planes on base were not ready to fly. F-22's aren't like the Cessna at your local airport, or even like one of those massive new passenger 777's. The F-22's engine and airframe control systems need to be tweaked back into specs pretty much every time they return from a flight which can take days if they ran into rough weather or if they were training platforms being abused by student pilots.

They're very touchy "high performance" birds, and there's a significant risk to fly them if there's any maintenance action left to complete or if they can't pass the engine pre-flight assessment checks.

Haele

[msongs]

3. ariworthy planes were flown out. those under repair etc that could not fly were

on the ground or in hangars. sorta hard to relocate non flyable planes

[lapfog_1]

10. flatbed trailers can't haul these planes?

wingspan is 44.5 feet, I think for the asset the police could have closed the roadways to get the 20 broken planes out.

Not to mention that those concrete bunker like hangers that we blew up in Syria... would be a better alternative than the standard steel and sheet metal hanger.

Just a thought for hurricane region

[malaise]

11. Well that would have prevented people from leaving

because most officials ignored those who were saying Cat3 or even more.
They underestimated the strength of this one and while they are talking about Panama City and Mexico Beach, damage is much more widespread

[lapfog_1]

13. 52 to 65 miles on local state highways to get to I-10

and then east to someplace near Jacksonville.

24 hours before the Hurricane hit.

Traveling the same general direction as everyone else escaping.

For the billions of dollars this is going to cost... I think it would have been worth it.

[malaise]

14. Of course but they waited too late and then people were rushing to

get out

[Hortensis]

24. But, let's face it, we're undoubtedly lacking at least half the

most important facts we'd need to make this "decision" that we'd never have to act on. I'm not saying you're wrong in the very general idea because I don't know squat either. But I do know that cluelessness is real and that knowing what it is to not know something is as important to competence as other knowledge.

[lapfog_1]

28. What I'm saying is that there should have been a plan

to protect $6 Billion dollars worth of aircraft.

Hardened hangers on raised concrete platforms that can withstand wind speed of 170 MPH and 15 feet of storm surge for example...

or a plan to move the planes not airworthy plus their spare parts and tools to someplace not in the path of a hurricane.

It's not like people in Florida are "surprised" when a Cat3 or bigger comes on shore.

Lest anyone think that this simply isn't possible, I give you this -

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/14/us/hurricane-michael-florida-mexico-beach-house.html

If I was the base commander there, I would have asked for the few millions of dollars to come up with the plan.

[Hortensis]

32. What I'm saying is that you have no idea if there was

a plan. I'm kind of assuming there was! The military has a huge bureaucracy and people whose job is to plan everything.

But you also don't know if a plan that you don't know exists but assume does not was implemented wholly or partially or not at all. Ridiculous.

Maybe wait to find out what happened?

[lapfog_1]

33. I hate to even cite the Washington Times

but...

"The decision to leave roughly $7.5 billion in aircraft in the path of a hurricane raised eyebrows, including among defense analysts who say the Pentagon’s entire high-tech strategy continues to make its fighter jets vulnerable to weather and other mishaps when they are grounded for repairs."

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/15/f-22-fighters-jets-tyndall-air-force-base-damaged-/

so yeah, I think I do know... not that this is being covered by most national news agencies and as for the administration or military coming clean on it... don't hold your breath.

[malaise]

34. Rumors are all over social media

This was a disaster

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

18. No flatbeds

If I remember correctly, the rear gear are about 13-14ft apart, which is wider then most flatbeds. Securing one to a trailer would be extremely difficult as the skin of the aircraft is very delicate. Standard procedure is all airworthy planes are flown out. Modern military equipment, particularly aircraft, are extremely maintainence heavy, in most cases upwards of 2-3x in maintenance hours over flight hours. So having a lot of them down isnt hugely unusual.


I know the Air Force and Lockheed actually mothballed all the tooling, and video recorded every manufacturing step from start to finish, just in case the line had to be restarted.

That being said, money wise, it would be pricey. Plus due to the long development hell it was in, its electronics and avionics could use an update. I do believe the F35 sensor suite and control systems are actually superior. There was talk of them pitching a F22/F35 hybrid.

[lapfog_1]

19. With such a valuable asset

a hardened weatherproof bunker / hanger would a decent investment. Raised with long ramps to prevent storm surge.

At least give the planes a chance to survive without needing that rebuild.

Of course, nothing like giving Lockheed another few billion dollars to replace the ones destroyed (with new ones or hybrids or whatever).

Great jobs program I guess.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

21. Agreed on the hardened hangers

I dont know how much such structures would cost to build, but it has got to be cheaper then replacing or repairing a dozen $200 million dollar aircraft.

[A HERETIC I AM]

26. "Wider than most flatbeds"?!?

Wider than any flatbed in existence, you mean.

Standard trailer width in the US = 102 inches, or 8' 6"

However, aircraft fuselages are transported on the highways all the time, but just that - fuselages. I've seen dozens of military planes on trucks over the years but they always have had their wings and vertical stabilizers removed.

Last January I was traveling around the Beltway in DC and did see an A-6 Intruder being towed down the freeway on it's own landing gear with it's wings folded up, but that was late at night and had a huge escort entourage of cops and military vehicles.



This was near Andrews, so I imagine it was being moved to be used as a display unit somewhere nearby.

The problem with moving 20 aircraft on the roadways in a hurry is the logistics involved. The hurricane formed and came up the gulf very quickly, and just preparing to move a single plane to Jacksonville via the roadways, as was suggested above, would have been a multi-day planning event. Moving 20 would have been impossible in just a few short days.

[Sherman A1]

16. Many aircraft were transferred to Wright-Patterson to wait out the storm

watched a video of them landing there. As to all of them being moved, I don't know, but likely some may have not been airworthy at the time or crews may not have been available.

[Achilleaze]

22. Will the republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief accept responsibility for this massive FAIL?

It happened on his watch, and the watch of his republican cronies. Thus, they are responsible for this clusterf*ck.

Will Donny Draft Dodger & KGOP republican cronies man up and accept responsibility for their FAIL?

[HipChick]

4. Homestead AFB never recovered from Hurricane Andrew..

Tyndall may end up same way...

[malaise]

7. Looks so n/t

[Recursion]

6. A dozen F-22s damaged beyond repair

That's almost a quarter of the entire fleet. This is an absolute catastrophe.

[malaise]

8. The silence is stunning

[lapfog_1]

9. nothing in the news past TRMS.

sad... I think taxpayers would be a bit interested.

[VMA131Marine]

20. There were 185 F-22s built

There has been some attrition due to crashes, but not enough to reduce the fleet to only 48 (=4x12). There had to have been between 170 and 180 still in inventory so the loss is more like 7-8%. Significant, but not crippling!

[KY_EnviroGuy]

12. Repugs won't but should consider climate change in this decision.

These questions should be considered regarding whether to rebuild this base or move it:

* What is the probability of it being hit with a similar hurricane every few years?

* What impact will sea level rise have on this base in the long-term?

........... ..........

[malaise]

15. That would be true for all bases on the South coast

and it is a valid point.

[lapfog_1]

17. yes... it may be time to abandon some locations

and harden others to withstand 150+ mph winds (in those states where this is going to be likely).

[onethatcares]

25. oh well,

another couple of billion in debt for the military is to be expected.

Just take it out of Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security and the Education department. They are sadly overfunded.

[malaise]

27. Yep

That's what they do while the owners of these military industries get tax cuts

[DVRacer]

29. The after action report I saw

Was the fleet of F22’s was literally decimated. We have approximately 170 aircraft and 17 were destroyed. That’s bad but the report also says not a single structure is habitable. The families are not being taken care those that lived on base are not allowed to retrieve any personal effects and substitute housing is not being made available. The disfunction of it is coming out via social media slowly members who are deployed and stationed out of there are finding out their families are not being taken care of.

[malaise]

31. Truth will out

And before the elections. They are hoping to keep it hush until then.