I am a Native American. I have some questions for Elizabeth Warren

[brooklynite]

CNN:

Elizabeth Warren released the results of a DNA test that suggests she has distant Native American heritage -- but that doesn't change anything for me, and other Natives like me, for that matter. My question still stands: Elizabeth Warren, where the hell have you been?

Seriously, let's not waste any time here, because I have a lot of questions.

Why didn't she say anything about the literal attacks on human rights and treaty violations during our fight against the Dakota Access Pipeline in North Dakota in 2016? While water protectors were being shot with water from cannons in freezing temperatures, while dogs were set on Natives protecting their ancestors' graves, and while Natives and allies were locked into "dog kennels," Warren's silence was deafening. While she eventually weighed in with a statement on Facebook, that was rightly and widely dismissed as too little, too late.

...snip...

And although, right now, I'd take Warren in a hot minute over a petulant President Trump, who goes off the rails at 2 a.m. on Twitter about absolutely anyone who doesn't fawn at his feet, the revered senator has a lot to apologize for -- or at least explain.

Warren is not in a competitive race at this point; there was no reason to bring up this distraction now.

[cwydro]

1. I lost respect for her with this stunt.

She should have stayed above it.

[unblock]

6. Donnie's stunt, not hers. And did you lose respect for obama when he released his birth certificate?

"Staying above it" doesn't work with today's media, donnie would keep using that slur, and the media would keep reporting it, and eventually they would call her weak and unable to fend off the attacks or describe her as hounded by questions about her heritage.

Until the media improves, what she did is probably the best response available.

[cwydro]

20. Yes. I did. nt

[unblock]

22. well that certainly plays right into donnie's hands, doesn't it?

he wins when he attacks, and he wins again when his victims defend.

great arrangement.

[Cha]

48. No Kidding!

[Salviati]

69. Right, Kerry saw what happens when you don't fight back against ridiculous attacks

We've got to counter them, the deplorables in the trumpublican base won't care if we disprove them, but there's a far too large gullible middle that will believe that there's got to be something to these sorts of attacks if we don't respond.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

34. There's a big difference between "I'm a US citizen"

and "I have a Native American ancestor."

One was flat out racism and easily proven.
The other is something that way too many people think they have and nobody really cares. And her DNA test doesn't help all that much since it doesn't differentiate between North and South American indigenous.

Anybody who doesn't think Trump's slur is racist isn't going to be swayed by her DNA test. It's a no win situation.

[Caliman73]

44. Well you certainly have the Right Wing framing down...

That is exactly what Conservatives are saying. It doesn't matter to Trump or his supporters, but it may matter to people who have heard that "Warren Lied about her ancestry". That was who this was for, not the idiots who already believe Trump.


I find it sadly amusing that people criticize Democrats for "not saying anything" or "not standing up", then criticize them for saying something that stands up and shows the bully that he was wrong.

Warren has never used the possibility that she may have Native American ancestry for anything. She was asked about it and gave her reasoning to think it was probable. At this point she was trying to inoculate herself against slanders from an idiot and have something to show the fence sitters and those who don't show up until the later stages of a Presidential race, that she actually has ancestry. That's it.

Everyone seems to be overthinking this or applying some sinister motive to Warren that is just not there rather than focusing on how Trump has been continuing to run against Hillary Clinton, Barak Obama, and Elizabeth Warren even though he already stole the Presidency and doesn't have to think about how to steal it again for another year.

[Cha]

49. Well Said, Caliman! Damn! I don't get Dems who

think Elizabeth Warren has "sinister motives" as you so rightly point out.

It was a brilliant vid.. very professional. The Racist Assholes in the vid were exposed for what they are and Elizabeth and her republican brothers stood up for who they are. Nobody trying to cash in on having Native American Ancestry. And, she highlighted the struggles of our Native Americans.

For Fuck sake their votes have been suppressed in North Dakota as we speak.

I have Objibwa blood in me.. so there!

[Caliman73]

55. Yeah. Someone posted a map of Cherokee voting patterns. Interesting

I did not know that many Cherokee were such staunch Republicans. I guess historically it may make sense since Andrew Jackson was a Democrat and some of the time, the New Deal programs excluded Native American participation, but I have to wonder what Republicans ever offer Native Americans, especially in the modern era.

As you said, Republicans are actively trying to suppress Native American votes in other states. I know each band or Nation is different, but Republicans only use minorities, they do not respect them or their rights.


Funny, I was always told growing up that I have indigenous Mexican blood from the Tarahumara and Tepehuan groups that were around in the area (Durango & Chihuahua) where my family is from in Mexico. I never asked for documentation either. You just believe what your family tells you.

[Cha]

58. Oh Wow.. what in the world would repubs do to

help the Cherokees or any other living person except the richest who only care about their tax cuts.. Not about having Clean Water/Air, a stronger infrastructure, schools, or helping those who can't afford medical insurance?!

That's too bad about the New Deal excluding Native Americans. I can't imagine repubs including Native Americans in anything beneficial, though. President Obama was all about keeping his promises to them..

Candidate Obama Kept His Promise to Native Americans

snip//

President Obama campaigned hard in 2008 for the votes of American Indians. He vowed that his administration would pay special attention to their grievances about federal mismanagement and the government’s recurring neglect of treaty obligations. “Few have been ignored by Washington for as long as Native Americans — the first Americans,” he told the Crow Nation in Montana, promising a change.

Flash forward to this week as Mr. Obama attended his eighth and final White House Tribal Nations Conference, an annual summit meeting of Indian leaders he instituted. He received praise for actually delivering on his pledge in multiple ways, including the announcement of $492 million in lawsuit settlements with 17 American Indian tribes for alleged federal mismanagement of their funds and lands. The government holds more than 100,000 leases to manage about 56 million acres of tribal lands rich in mining, timber and oil resources that have historically been exploited at the tribes’ expense.

Flash forward to this week as Mr. Obama attended his eighth and final White House Tribal Nations Conference, an annual summit meeting of Indian leaders he instituted. He received praise for actually delivering on his pledge in multiple ways, including the announcement of $492 million in lawsuit settlements with 17 American Indian tribes for alleged federal mismanagement of their funds and lands. The government holds more than 100,000 leases to manage about 56 million acres of tribal lands rich in mining, timber and oil resources that have historically been exploited at the tribes’ expense.

The settlement was the latest in the administration’s resolution of more than 100 tribal claims, some of them a century old, at a cost of more than $3.3 billion. Separate from that, the administration settled a complex, 13-year-old lawsuit in 2009, agreeing to pay $3.4 billion in compensation for federal mishandling of hundreds of thousands of land trust accounts. That signaled a sea change in the long and bitter history of Washington’s treatment of tribal interests and grievances.


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/30/opinion/candidate-obama-kept-his-promise-to-native-americans.html

Yeah, growing up you don't think about documents telling about your ancestry. But, their stories about your heritage makes a strong impression. I was delighted when my Mom told us about her family's relation to the Ojibwa.

Cool you have "indigenous Mexican blood from the Tarahumara and Tepehuan" tribes!

[Cuthbert Allgood]

72. Comparing what Warren is going through to what Obama did is just wrong on a lot of levels.

I think what Trump has done to Warren is gross and racist from the language Trump is using. What was done to Obama is that times about 10,000.

But, hey, thanks for calling me a right winger.

[Caliman73]

73. I never called you a right winger.

I said that you were using the same framing of the issue that the right is using to criticize Warren and I stand by that. It doesn't matter whether what President Obama went through was less, more, or the same in terms of offense. It is the same tactic. Trump is merely trying to make illegitimate his opponent. Trump has equal disdain for Black people and women. Warren, like Obama produced information in order to take the sting out of the talking point. His followers, who are as stupid and vile as he is, won't care. It is likely however, that most other people will get tired of the smear.

Right wingers are easy to spot. They typically have a very poor command of language and their arguments are circular and often resort to grievance or name calling to deflect from the fact that their arguments are invalid. You displayed none of that, but as I said, you used the same framing that has been spouted by various right wing outlets. We need to stop helping them by using the same arguments.

I am not even saying that there isn't legitimate criticism for Warren but stating that Trump supporters don't care and it is a "no-win situation" are not, in my opinion, legitimate criticisms.

[Cha]

43. He ".. lost respect for President Obama when he

released his birth certificate.." lol

Well, I didn't.. we had/have much bigger G.D. Fish to fry.

[Caliman73]

45. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

That is how some people see it. Criticism for not responding to attacks and criticism for responding to attacks. I just think that some people won't be happy until we Democrats are a very perfectly vocal minority.

[fallout87]

46. Umm.. Obama was a US born citizen

There was no debate about it with his birth certificate. Warren is, at MOST, 1/64th Native American. So she's pretty much the same as everyone else in the USA.

This was a horrible idea on her part. She should have just ignored him.

[unblock]

63. Ignoring Donnie's insults hasn't worked well for anyone, has it?

You're getting caught up in the detailed distinctions without a difference between the two cases.

What matters is simply that in both cases, Donnie appealed to bigotry to marginalize both of them, and accused them of lying or misrepresenting who they were.

Ideally. *the media* should stop letting Donnie get away with this crap. Stop covering it, or start calling it a gaffe when he insults segments of America like blacks or native Americans.

But as long as the media just merrily passes along Donnie's bigotry, people have to push back.

[fescuerescue]

62. Why did she join Trump in this stunt?

And I wouldn't compare Obama's response to be similar.

Obama had a really solid response that shut down Trump, and did not throw gas on the fire.

[unblock]

64. Waiting for a better suggestion. And "ignore him" isn't it.

[fescuerescue]

66. I'm no political strategist

Ignoring it probably isn't the best answer.

But I think the current answer is probably even less so.

[snowybirdie]

10. You've been had

and fallen for tRump propaganda. Why would you even spend a second on this made up controversy. Ignore the stupid and divisive and focus on GOTV in three weeks!

[loyalsister]

26. I get that

A lot of white people try to claim Native American heritage, based on sketchy family lore or other suspect evidence. It's a romantic footnote on heritage that doesn't compromise their whiteness as they go about their privileged lives with no consequences for being a survivor of the taming of N. America.
Warren showed insensitivity by being a part of that and reinforced the legitimacy of trying to identify with ethnicity without living it.
It was a mistake and she doesn't seem to get it.

[Doodley]

29. What does "living it" mean? Does anyone who identifies with

an ethnicity have to "live it?"

[Cuthbert Allgood]

35. If my great great great great grandmother was Native American

but every other ancestor is white European, I have no right to go around saying I'm Native American. I just don't.

[maxsolomon]

37. She doesn't "go around saying" that. She said her family says they have NA ancestry.

Trump and the RWNM made this an issue to de-legitimize Warren, and thereby all the work she did to establish the CFPB.

Trump bet a million dollars she didn't have NA ancestry, she proved she did, and now he's welching.

If she were that percentage African, however, she'd be historically considered black in America. Per the "One Drop" theory, she'd be an "octoroon".

[fallout87]

47. Wasn't she listed as a woman of color at harvard?

Why didn't she correct them? 1/64th doesn't make you a Native American.

I hope she runs in 2020, and she certainly has my backing, but this stunt was a horrible idea.

[maxsolomon]

50. "Why didn't she correct them"? Who fucking cares?

You'd think she'd murdered a journalist inside an embassy the way low-count DU Librulz rend their garments over this contrived issue. Our candidates must be pure as the driven snow OR THEY MUST RESIGN!

"it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools, and that Harvard Law School at one time promoted Warren as a Native American faculty member."
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elizabeth-warren-wealthy-native-american/

Do you believe her "not correcting them" delegitimizes her as a politician?

[fallout87]

59. No, I think it's a black eye on her though.

This isn't something she will easily walk away from. Just look at the shit show it created.

[maxsolomon]

65. you recognize it's the same pattern they took with HRC & BHO, right?

find something, anything, to accuse the Dem of hypocrisy with.

treat a minor issue (one claim of NA ancestry, Benghazi, Whitewater) as if it's equivalent to tax fraud + money laundering + sexual harassment + being a crude ass. pound them on it them over and over.

catapult the propaganda through the RWNM.

force that Dem to jump through hoops to disprove the assertion, and then say its not good enough/crow that you made them ask "how high?".

she can't "walk away from it", because Trump will never stop calling her Pocahontas. even if she beats him in 2020. he doesn't care that it insults NA, he DGAF about NA votes.

its bullying. don't accept the framing.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

71. I'm not saying she did/does.

I'm responding to the "What does 'living it' mean" question.

I don't think she did anything but tell an anecdotal story. Don't know that I agree with the DNA test nor the timing of the release, but I also don't think it's a huge deal.

[Doodley]

74. Okay, but what has that got to do with Elizabeth Warren?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

75. Nothing. You asked a general question about "living it."

I responded to that question.

[Caliman73]

52. I will try to explain rationally even though I disagree with the other poster.

I am Mexican-American. I grew up in a predominantly Mexican/Mexican-American area. My parents grew up in Mexico, my mom coming to the States when she was a young girl and my dad when he was in his late teens. I spoke Spanish primarily until I went to school. My grandparents spoke mainly in Spanish and one of them never learned English. My skin is lighter, but I have features and customs that would identify me relatively easily as "not White". Even though a good majority of the people where I grew up were Latino, the power structure (teachers, politicians, etc...) were White. I have witnessed discrimination first hand. Whether I wanted to be White or pass as White, I was not able to do so. I would often be asked where I was from. I would regularly be told as an adolescent (as if it were a compliment, how well I spoke English, even though by then I was speaking more English than Spanish. I have had both very good and very bad outcomes because of my being Latino.

This is my "lived experience" being Mexican-American.

I have family members who do not speak Spanish, who have very light skin and light hair and blue eyes. They were able to grow up and blend in with non-Latino communities and have a cultural upbringing very different than mine. Are they Latino? Technically, yes. They are by blood similar to me with at least one parent who migrated from Mexico to the US, who passed on genes, a last name, and perhaps some cultural markers. However, they have never associated with voluntarily or otherwise, the Latino culture. The question would then be, if there was a benefit to being Latino (say Affirmative Action for college admission) would it be okay for them to say that they are Latino? That is the conflict that I think the poster is trying to convey.

A rather extreme example is Rachel Dolezal who is a White woman who identified herself as Black and used that identity to gain access to certain positions within the Black community. She may have actually even lived some aspects of a Black identity, but the problem was that she did not grow up with any of the challenges faced by Black people which shapes that identity.

Finally, why I actually disagree with the poster is that Senator Warren never claimed any special identity as a Native American. She did not, as far as I am aware, ever say, "Hey I am Cherokee or Delaware and thus I can access these cultural or societal benefits." She said back in 1987, that her family lore was that there was some connection through ancestry. The whole topic was brought up again by her political opponents as a way to paint her as a liar and cultural appropriator, which again, to my knowledge, she never was. The DNA test was in my opinion, about inoculating herself to the average, un-involved voter in preparation for a Presidential run in the next year. It doesn't mean that Trump or any Republican is going to say, "well, she showed ancestry". They don't care. Republicans cannot win a fair race. It is for her to say, "This is a non-issue but in can my opponents are desperate to bring it up, here is some evidence".

[loyalsister]

70. To clarify

I was referring to the very common claim of Native American DNA. White North American citizens do this very frequently. It is a way of erasing the reality of what it means to live an everyday life with a sense of otherness and knowledge of why there are few branches on the family tree.
It is a practice that white people should stop and it isn't helpful for a political leader to participate by using their DNA and distant link to ethnicity as a political stunt.

[rusty fender]

32. So what would you say about

someone who passes as white, but who has Native American blood and refuses to acknowledge it?

[Cha]

42. omg.. Elizabeth's Vid was absolutely brilliant..

The Asshole in the wh is the fucking racist idiot who started this shit and she exposed him.

She also highlighted the plight of Native Americans.

[dogman]

2. Native Americans are being denied the right to vote and this is our concern?

Link to tweet

"I’m so tired of non-natives attempting to use natives to attack Elizabeth Warren. Right now I’m more worried about my relatives in North Dakota who’s votes are being suppressed by the GOP & SCOTUS & Warren is fighting for a Native Voter Rights Act."

[janterry]

9. I don't know why she is a target

I know that how you claim your heritage can be important (if I want to claim membership in, for instance, a particular tribe).

But she was just telling a family story - that didn't matter one bit beyond the fun of telling it.

In my family, my father used to tell the story of a fight my grandfather had with Jack Dempsy. (He was a boxer, coach and ref). After my father died, his sister told me that the story wasn't *quite* true. He did have a fight and his back was broken - but it wasn't Dempsy at all.

Families tell stories sometimes. It's what they do.

I like Warren. She's on the right side of most (all?) issues that I'm aware of.

[Hekate]

15. Warren is a target because Trump picks off opponents one by one by one and she is a frontrunner....

We watched him do this with 17 other presidential candidates -- didn't you notice? He would find something that got under their skin, and work it for all it was worth until the nickname or slur stuck and they came apart in public. "Little Marco." Comments about Cruz's wife and dad. "Low energy Jeb." It went on and on and it was ugly as hell.

But Trump did this one at a time. And one at a time they crumbled.

Elizabeth Warren is not going to crumble.

[dogman]

18. Until he pays his bet she should just refer to him as "The Liar"

If you lay back, he steamrolls you.

[Turin_C3PO]

3. I wish she hadn't released the info

at this point in time. It is, ultimately, a distraction from much more pressing matters. I still love her though and would consider supporting her in the primaries, should she choose to run.

[unblock]

7. It's great timing.

Donnie and the media can't really dwell on it now precisely because there are more pressing matters.

Then, by the time it matters (Warren presidential run or in a key position in a senate majority) it will be seen as an old story that was dealt with long ago.

[Turin_C3PO]

8. That's true.

Yes, it will be old news by then.

[brooklynite]

11. This was an old story when he first came up with it...

He'll keep it up and it'll keep playing to his base voters...begging the question, why did Warren take the bait?

[unblock]

13. Seemed to work for obama

The birther crap never really died down until he produced the birth certificate and then it largely went away.

Damage done by that time, but still.

Really not sure why anyone should think ignoring it would have worked better. When has the media ever rewarded that?

[LanternWaste]

19. What objective good would be the result of her ignoring it?

And what specifically leads you to believe she's taken bait rather than merely respond?

Keep it up, indeed...

[maxsolomon]

38. Because she's going to run.

This would be used against her by Trump every chance he got. He still will, he'll just crow about making her take the test.

[RiverStone]

57. My words exactly! Huge fan of Elizabeth, but why do this 22 days from the midterms?

It's an unneeded distraction.The timing was a mistake.

We need ALL focus on kicking rethuglican ass in 3 weeks.

[ret5hd]

4. Of course you do.

[Iliyah]

5. I'll bet her eyes are focus concerning GOPers cutting safety nets . . .

as well as suppression of votes - POC . .

Regardless, damn if you do, damn if you don't, shithole will always attack her and anyone he feels threaten by.

On a side note, Warren did not lie.

[treestar]

12. She was only saying her family thought they had some ancestry

And that remark was used against her in a campaign.

That doesn't mean she can't choose her issues.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

14. These are important points.

[LiberalFighter]

16. I agree with you on the distraction part.

All she is doing is making it more difficult for Democrats to get elected.

[rusty fender]

33. Jeebus!

[peggysue2]

17. I really like Elizabeth Warren but . . .

this was simply a dumb play to make three weeks before the midterms where our focus needs to be laser-sharp. She could have received the results and held on to them until after the election or sprung it on the Trumpster as the presidential sorting out started next year. Then, make him squirm and fuss

But now?

Anything that distracts from what we all need to do on November 6th is not helping. I'm disappointed with Warren's misstep and poor timing on this one.

[LexVegas]

21. This whole stunt has totally backfired on her. Very bad political move. nt

[maxsolomon]

39. where is the backfire? From tut-tutters like yourself?

Has her lead in MA slipped?

[wellst0nev0ter]

23. I just like how half this thread

are not even aware that they've normalized the racial slur "Pocahontas"

[Hekate]

24. It was never a racial slur until Trump made it one. Pocahantas was a historical figure...

The US Mint honored her with a coin. Disney made an animated feature about her. She's in the history books.

Trump made it a slur -- just try saying your own name in that tone of voice, or your own religious denomination, or "Liberal." Or, for instance, imagine being Jewish and hearing a bigot speak of your religion. That's how it's done.

[wellst0nev0ter]

27. Yep, which makes the term all the more vile

And now commentators here are saying Warren should appease someone who's a fooking racist. Have we become such quislings in front of raging trumpism?

[ProfessorGAC]

25. Puhleaze!

Waste of bandwidth.

[still_one]

28. She probably should not have brought this up right before the midterms, but is this really an issue

we want to focus on right now?

The only one's continuing to push this are the republicans and of course the MSM, and predictably we are falling into their trap, and debating this among ourselves when we really need to be GOTV, and fight the places where ballots are getting thrown out

[LAS14]

31. It's this kind of over-interpreted response to a simple quest for hard...

... facts which makes independents shy away from the "politically correct" left. Elizabeth Warren was simply finding out the facts at the root of a family story. She was doing it because the GOP had threatened to make it the tail that wagged the dog. There are other times and other places to deal with the wrongs done to native Americans.

[violetpastille]

36. This is an important point to discuss, in so far as:

Birtherism is not a new concept. The Russians did it first.

I read:
The Future Is History: How Totalitarianism Reclaimed Russia

And what I read might happen next are smears and accusations of pedophilia. How do you disprove a negative?

We need to stategize about this and other hypotheticals before they come up

[hughee99]

40. She wanted to get this out of the way before

She runs for president, so it will just be old news. She wouldn’t have done this now if her senate race was competitive.

[Johnny2X2X]

41. Really?

Warren made an off hand comment about her great great great grand mother telling a story that their family had a Native American in it. Zero issue until Trump and his deplorables made it into one.

She never claimed to be a Native American, she never claimed she knew their experience. She simply made a passing comment that her ancestry had some Native American roots. And Trump ridiculed her for years over it because he’s a troll. So she took the test, and it confirmed exactly what she said her family had told her.

[Adrahil]

51. It boggles my mind that THIS

Is the what people are talking about. We ar our own worst enemies.

[Jacoby365]

53. Well, for starters, here is one statement she made about Dakota Access Pipeline

way back in December of 2016.

"I don’t know how anyone could watch the news and not be horrified by what’s happening at Standing Rock Reservation in North Dakota."

http://standwithstandingrock.net/senator-elizabeth-warren-makes-statement-standing-rock/

[rockfordfile]

54. Why are you posting this here?

[jcgoldie]

56. This is democrat bashing

She has nothing to apologize for nor explain. What a bullshit post.

[CentralMass]

61. +1

[Coventina]

68. +2 n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

60. So why do you bring it up? (nt)

[alarimer]

67. Just what the fuck has she done wrong?

She called Trump’s bluff and proved she was right. You are going to throw away the best chance to beat Trump because of this stupid shit? Then, fuck it, I am done with Democrats.

But, she didn’t mention this or that issue. OFF WITH HER HEAD!

[Act_of_Reparation]

78. I think he made his point resoundingly clear.

Also, he's not suggesting throwing Warren out.

Maybe relax a little?

[MFM008]

76. My problem

With EW is the way she handled this.
If you release DNA have support.
She should have KNOWN this wouldnt make any difference to maggot. None.

[JCanete]

77. There are entirely separate issues at play. Do you really think if Warren attempted to ignore this

question as it stands that it would simply go away? That it wouldn't be continued to be used cynically as a way to discredit her for claiming a Native American lineage? Which is not at all the same thing as claiming Native American status, or attempting to reap benefits from that status, or pretending to be among an oppressed people and to have experienced the discrimination and exploitation coupled with that heritage?

She had to do this, unless you would rather Trump hold all the cards with his baseless racist insult. Whether or not she's been the very best on championing Native American rights is another matter that is entirely worth weighing when you decide to vote for her, but unless somebody can actually produce a better course of action than to go at Trump's attack and his absurd promise of a million dollars, again making him a liar, fraught and problematic are not good enough reasons for her not to do this. The stakes for the whole nation are fucking high.


As to timing, why would you have felt different if she'd done this later? I'm not sure I follow that one. I'm not sure what this is distracting us from either.