Honduras?

[question everything]

OK, I don't know. Hope you will be able to explain and not denigrate. I always found DU a source of reliable information.

I take it that there is a lot of crime and no government in Honduras, which is why many want to leave.

But why all the way to the U.S.? Why not Mexico? Or south to Costa Rica? Or neighboring El Salvador and Nicaragua?

These are countries that share a lot more with the Hondurans than the U.S.?

This is just practical question.

And now, the political. After the disaster of 2016, and the applauds that Whiny Donny gets in his rallies, I can see that many right wingers will ask similar question, adding that "we cannot accommodate all the poor and miserable of the world."

Steve Schmidt was very eloquence yesterday on Nicole Wallace - perhaps someone posted this - about how we were always a beacon for the tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse.. (no, he did not use this quotation, he does not need to..).

So, why Honduras, now, and how can we rebut the RWers?

Hope for useful information. Thanks.

[grantcart]

1. Starting in 2008 the Obama administration changed ICE mission to focus on migrants

With criminal records or suspicious activity.

ICE agents were posted to prisons to identify migrants convicted of crimes and repatriate them after their prison term

Task forces were formed to identify probable migrant gang members. For example a male with visible assets, lots of discretionary income, visiting areas known for drug activity but no job would be detained and sent back on immigration charge without waiting for them to be caught and tried on a criminal charge.

We sent tens of thousands of criminals back. El Salvador and Honduras were the two largest.

It's important to understand that MS 13 and other violent gangs were born here and exported to Central America.

The asylum seekers are victims of these gangs who have reformulated and have recreated near combat conditions in some neighborhoods.

No simple answer.

[question everything]

2. Thank you. No, simple answer

but I can see how many, not necessarily deplorables, would wonder.

[sinkingfeeling]

3. You need to search on the Northern Triangle of Central America.

These people from the Northern Triangle of Central America are not
criminals! They're the 500,000 people displaced by threats, extortion, forced gang recruitment, and homicide. 
75% of Hondurans and 79% of Salvadorans have witnessed a murder or seen a murdered corpse within the last 2 years. 45.4% of Hondurans and 56.2% of Salvadorans entering Mexico have lost a family member to violence in the past 2 years. 32.5% have been exposed to physical violence by a non family member. 
They are fleeing unbearable circumstances and the "great, Christian" country is going to use its $790 billion army to refuse them entry. 
I hate this idiot administration and about 35% of its citizens! 

Source: MSG report, "Forced to flee Central America's Northern Triangle" May 2017

[question everything]

4. Thank you.

Two questions: the first, perhaps over simplified: can the innocent people not take control of their countries? Wouldn't it be nice if instead of threatening to send the army to the border, to send troops to help the people help themselves? Yes, regime change, if needed.

And two - why the U.S? Why not Mexico, or Costa Rica?

Just saw a picture of the "caravan" in Mexico, I think and, really, I can see how the majority of people in this country ask themselves: can we really take all of them in? And then the next "caravan?"

Is this the only thing we, and Europe can and should do? accept refugees from all corners of the world?

[oberliner]

5. Are you really asking why they want to go to the U.S. rather than Mexico?

[question everything]

7. Will they be treated like criminals, their children torn away from them

in the Mexico border?

[oberliner]

9. Worse

Migrants are abused in southern Mexico primarily by criminal groups. Sexual assault, theft and kidnapping are a regular part of the migrant route.

And the shelters are brutal.

[OhioBlue]

6. Refugees do not only seek asylum in the US and Europe.

The article does point out that some of the refugees are indeed seeking asylum in Mexico and some in the U.S. These are not the only refugees. We have not heard enough about the situation to know what other countries are taking refugees from this current crisis.

I remember during the Iraq war, watching a C-Span panel of US Ambassadors from Jordan, Egypt, Syria and I am not sure which other countries, but they were making a case for why they needed U.S. assistance with taking care of refugees from the Iraq war.

[sinkingfeeling]

10. What is 3,000 or 30,000, or even 300,000 in a country of well

over 325,000,000? And the one that claims to be the richest and most 'Christian' country in the world.

Other countries are taking in refugees. Jordan has taken in over 1.2 million from Syria.

The UNHCR provides funding.

[question everything]

15. True. But we have to remember that we are always one economic cycle away from the

next recession, the next high unemployment.

I think that there was a program, at least in California, when many migrants were given work permit for seasonal work in agriculture. I think fisheries in the Gulf also.

And, perhaps, this is what some former decent Republicans (no one is there now) were thinking of immigration reform.

But, for practical matter, now, this is red meat for Trump.

I don't know why these "caravans" cannot wait until after the elections. Yes, we, reasonable people want to address this problem, but, let's be honest, for many voters, who do not or will not try to really understand the issues - such images are scary.

[Bluesaph]

8. Costa Rica takes refugees

As soon as one toe lands in their soil and declares refugee they are given papers and allowed to stay.

[question everything]

14. Perhaps we can dedicate resources to help Costa Rica absorb many of them

that is, if we had a thinking, caring leader.

[a la izquierda]

12. Why not Mexico?

Because the Mexican economy is not great and it has a serious poverty problem. The number of homeless I’ve see. In the last two weeks (I’m currently in Mexico) seems higher than ever before.

[question everything]

13. We certainly have many homeless people

and tent cities are now sprouting, even in Minnesota where cold winter was thought to keep many away.

As we know the "trickle down economy" does not exist.