"Divisiveness" how do we fight it?

[LAS14]

I don't like the divisiveness in our country. But I think I dislike the fascist leadership we've got even more.

I subscribe to the idea that we should argue against a person's positions, not demonize the person themselves.

But when people behave demonically, what do you do? When I hear news anchors lament the fact that we cannot "tolerate people with different views," (See excerpt and link at bottom), I say "Should we have tolerated Hitler, with his 'different view' of Jews?" Should we "tolerate" Trump and followers who yell "Lock her up!"?

When and how do we draw the line?

One thing, for sure, I think, is that we don't attack the motives of people who have clearly not crossed the line. We don't know their motives if they're simply advocating for Bernie Sanders or Kirsten Gillibrand, or the reverse.

If we're talking to an individual rather than about their views, we ask questions to try to get beyond parroted beliefs.

But we HATE, truly HATE fascism and racism and sexism, etc. They aren't just "views."

It's a puzzle, but I don't want to add fuel to the fire that Russians are spending literally millions on to harden the divisions between groups. Can you suggest a strategy?

Reminder - I'm not endorsing the view below. It's an example of the problem.

Judy Woodruff:

What has it taken to bring the country back to a place where we could, if not all be friends with one another, at least tolerate people with different views?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-roots-of-our-current-political-divisiveness

[Demsrule86]

1. The GOP is so far out there that I can't really see working with them...won't cut programs

they hate like Medicare etc...so how can I say, "oh you want to starve Grandma and babies but that is OK everyone has their own viewpoint"...can't. You have to call out evil when you see it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. But you can argue against bad policy without intentionally demonizing individuals.

You can say eliminating Medicare is destructive without calling anti-Medicare politicians evil (even if you think they are). Personally I find this very difficult because it's so hard to separate bad policy from bad motives and therefore bad people. But I don't see any other way of turning down the heat. And I do happen to think Trump is actually evil.

[Demsrule86]

7. But trying to kill old people is evil. The policies are so evil and destructive, I can't see how

you separate it...I can't say people of good conscience can disagree about putting kids in cages are starving babies or denying healtcare to millions for example because I just don't think it is true.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. I wouldn't say things like "people of good conscience could disagree," etc., but

it might be possible to say something like "Eliminating Medicare would be cruel" without saying "Congressman X is a horrible, evil, crappy excuse for a human being for trying to eliminate Medicare." Instead, maybe say "Congressman X is wrong for voting to eliminate Medicare, which would be cruel and destructive." That way you stick to policy without getting personal. I can't be that restrained, but maybe other people could be...

[Demsrule86]

30. I could try, but I am pretty hotheaded at times.

But you have a point.

[ck4829]

3. Forge new connections

Religious/spiritual liberals (I am one), sometimes we feel disconnected from discourse. Liberal shouldn't be a synonym for non-religious/atheist (Not that there is anything wrong with being atheist either).

I know Christians and yes Muslims who have pretty strong left wing views. They should be reached out to.

We also need to continue supporting things or at least suggest things that will benefit ALL Americans... making sure everyone gets services; education, communication, and that's right, healthcare.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

4. Hate shouldn't be tolerated. Tolerate different point of views, but not hateful ones.

Being opposed to hate is not hateful.

[LAS14]

5. Helpful observation. Thanks! nt

[Demsrule86]

8. That is a good point.

But there can be no coming together when judicial picks are stolen by the Republicans and they out and out lie.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

12. Well, maybe with the politicians in power

There's probably ways to make progress with regular people... voters. I think the Democrats need to do better reaching out to the rural voters. It is costing us a lot of elections that these people are consistently voting for Republicans. They need to be convinced that Dems aren't just a bunch of big city folks. Spend more time with these people working on issues that matter to them between elections. Get to know these people. It would be quite an effort, but people will vote for someone they know and trust.

[LAS14]

16. "Get to know these people. It would be quite an effort, but people will vote for someone they know"

and trust." Right on! I'm so glad to see that we have a candidate in every district in some formerly red states.... even if there is no chance of their winning. We need to have a presence everywhere.

[Demsrule86]

29. I agree...I lived in a suburb of Cleveland and had a great deal of work done on my house

which was still mired in the 70's...orange carpeting paneling the whole works. The gentleman who worked on my house who was very red over time as we talked is now a Democrat who supported my gay daughter when she came out...it can happen. We can't give up on anyone.

[uponit7771]

6. Truth first and false equivalencies are NOT truth in this context

[LAS14]

10. Another good point. Judy Woodruff should be called out on this. Hate is not a 'view'. nt

[fescuerescue]

9. Republicans are the ones that demonize us

We don't demonize them

We can't fight it.

We can only defend against it.

[Skidmore]

13. We demand decency, truth, and honor

using objective facts and a standard set of principles. We stand by the articles of the party platform which use these. We cannot budge because we hold the center now. We resist the siren call to have our own version of the Tea Party and keep our eyes on avenues to power so that we can wrest our nation back and restore it.

[LAS14]

14. "We resist the siren call to have our own version of the Tea Party "

Deserves repeating for those who only read the subject lines. Whole reply is xcellent!!

[George II]

15. Very well put, especially the part about the left wing "Tea Party" - we don't need that!

[ismnotwasm]

23. Perfect.

[NurseJackie]

24. "We resist the siren call to have our own version of the Tea Party..." Yes. This is so true!

We resist the siren call to have our own version of the Tea Party and keep our eyes on avenues to power so that we can wrest our nation back and restore it.

Yes. This is so true! I agree wholeheartedly with this simple, yet so meaningful, observation. All I'm trying to say is that we can't defeat the GOP if our own party is divided, distrusting, suspicious and resentful.

[Gothmog]

27. Great post

[brer cat]

28. +++

[still_one]

32. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[spanone]

17. 1st. Remove this 'president'.

[violetpastille]

18. I have been thinking about this a lot. And how is it being dealt with in other countries where

facism is on the rise.

https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2017/01/20/culturejam/ From Venezula:

How to Culture Jam a Populist

4. Find a counter-argument. (No, not the one you think.)
Don’t waste your time trying to prove that this ism is better than that ism. Ditch all the big words. Why? Because, again, the problem is not the message but the messenger. It’s not that Trump supporters are too stupid to see right from wrong, it’s that you’re much more valuable to them as an enemy than as a compatriot.

The problem is tribal. Your challenge is to prove that you belong in the same tribe as them: that you are American in exactly the same way they are.

It’s way easier to get this wrong than to get this right, and the chances are the people getting it wrong will drown out those getting it right.

In Venezuela, we fell into the abstraction trap in a bad way. We wrote again and again about principles, about the separation of powers, about civil liberties, about the role of the military in politics, about corruption and economic policy. But it took our leaders ten years to figure out they needed to actually go to the slums and to the countryside. And not for a speech, or a rally, but for game of dominoes or to dance salsa – to show they were Venezuelans too, that they had tumbao and could hit a baseball, could tell a joke that landed. That they could break the tribal divide, come down off the billboards and show they were real. And no, this is not populism by other means. It is the only way of establishing your standing. It’s deciding not to live in an echo chamber. To press pause on the siren song of polarization.

You will not find that pause button in the cities or the university’s campuses. You will find it precisely where you’re not expected.

Only then will your message land.

There’s no point sugar coating: the road ahead is tough and the pitfalls are many. It’s way easier to get this wrong than to get this right, and the chances are the people getting it wrong will drown out those getting it right.

But if you want to be part of the solution, the road ahead is clear: Recognize you’re the enemy they need; show concern, not contempt, for the wounds of those that brought Trump to power; by all means be patient with democracy and struggle relentlessly to free yourself from the shackles of the caricature the populists have drawn of you.

It’s a tall order. But the alternative is worse. Believe me, I know: I’m from Venezuela.

[LAS14]

20. Thanks! I'm referencing this in a new OP. It's so valuable! nt

[anarch]

19. it's difficult when people have been indoctrinated and taught to see fellow citizens as "other"

Much of our current societal structure is perpetuated due to a determined effort by those who wish to hold onto wealth and power for themselves to make sure the population of "regular folks" is split into factions with totally incompatible philosophies and agendas, such that they're constantly at each other's throats instead of coming together to oppose those who would oppress us all, which would be to the benefit of the masses, but would cut into the wealth/power held by the current privileged class.

Historically, the only way to really get such fractious groups to come together is to present them with an outside threat that would affect everyone just about equally, and make them realize in a visceral way that their self-interest is better served by working with their fellow citizens, regardless of their political point of view, rather than fighting amongst themselves...one might think that climate change would present such a threat, but thanks to decades of determined propaganda, one side refuses to acknowledge the threat; thinks it's made up, just to stop them from pursuing a better quality of life for themselves. Sort of the same for any topic involving "regulation" of commerce.

How do you get people who have been brainwashed to see their fellow humans as "other" to cast aside their longstanding prejudice and hatred? I don't know. I mean, I don't hate my Republican relatives, and I would hope they don't hate me either...I don't wish any of them any harm--I just wish they would wake up to reality, think for themselves, and maybe meet and talk to some of the people they seem to hate and wish ill to (in the cases I'm thinking of, people of color, LGBT folks, etc.), so they see that they are just folks too...and I wish they'd stop spewing such vitriolic and hateful nonsense as they do. But I don't see it happening. Family gatherings are very tense now, when they happen at all, largely because the Republicans in the extended family can't seem to stop themselves from poking at the liberal ones at every opportunity...and not in a jokey, fraternal kind of way either; they tend to get nasty.

So, I dunno...maybe an alien invasion, like in "Independence Day" or something would get people to come together as Americans (or hell, just as humans). Short of that, we need to find some way of counteracting the propaganda, or there needs to be a sea change among the religious leaders on the right. You can argue against the policies and not the people all day long, and that's great, but when the other side won't see some/most of the folks on your side as people, with the same inherent human rights that they feel they themselves are entitled to...I don't know.

[LAS14]

21. Yes, it was a sad day when the balance tipped and Republicans...

... stopped seeing Russia as the totalitarian threat that it is. We have to learn to fight weapons much more subtle than atomic bombs.

[kentuck]

22. By Uniting ...

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

25. I think social media has contributed a lot to divisiveness

All those stupid memes... and people can easily find other people to back them up on their extreme ideas. We used to socialize differently. It used to just be whoever was in your community/neighborhood, you would socialize with them. People weren't so extreme because if they were they'd have no friends. Now people can be extremists and know that they've got a whole online community of people who back them up. Way more face to face interactions before social media too. It is harder for people act like complete dicks in person, but I think as people have more online interactions than in person ones that they start to act like dicks in the few face to face interactions they have too.

[diva77]

26. Bring back the Fairness Doctrine. n/t

[Solly Mack]

31. It's not a case of different views/opinions. Some people want to legislate their hate into law.

They want their prejudices to be validated by those in power. They want their racism and sexism and homophobia and assorted other bigotries to be the law of the land.

There can never be tolerance for that kind of thinking.

Well before now the right was bombing clinics and murdering doctors - and not because of a difference of opinion about abortion either.

But because they want to control how everyone lives and they want everyone to live according to how they say.

That's not a case of people having differing views.

That's violence. That's about control.

And the right spreads that attitude across the board.

If people can't feed themselves then they should starve - that's not a different opinion - that's violence.

They want handouts. They want free stuff. The poor are lazy. The poor are dirty. "Inner cities". Steal our jobs. We're the "real" Americans. The enemy of the people. Liberals are evil. The mob.

The language of dehumanizing people. Not different opinions.

All of that is part and parcel to violence - not a difference in opinion.

[Rizen]

33. You can't work with Republicans

You can't compromise with people who just drag the country further and further right; that was proven under Obama. Republicans don't use facts or work with reality. They're nothing but a hate group that furthers wealth inequality. We need to stop compromising our positions and power, stop trying to work with them.

[LAS14]

34. Well, I think one way to counter divisiveness is to try to avoid the implication...

... of "all" when we talk about groups. I agree that there are an appallingly large number of Republicans who fit your description perfectly. But there are those who don't.

Bottom line, it looks like you don't think we can combat divisiveness and should just direct our energies to winning. Is that the case?

[Rizen]

36. I never said "all"

but the ones in control are and so are their supporters by association. Republicans, as in those who continue to support the party, have crossed many lines they can't come back from. It's important we don't legitimize nor normalize their behavior. I don't work with people who support grabbing women without asking, letting Russia hack our government, etc. What they're doing is not only wrong it's criminal.

[LAS14]

37. Right. That's why I said "by implication." Let's specify the ones in control, but...

... let's be clear about what we mean by "supporters." All people who voted for Trump? All people who aren't sure what they should do next?

[UCmeNdc]

35. Vote the GOP bums out of office! That is how you fight this divisiveness

Vote!