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kpete

(72,014 posts)
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 03:51 PM Aug 2012

YES!!! "Dems Have Ceased Their Traditional Response Of Assuming The Fetal Position When Attacked"

Last edited Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:23 PM - Edit history (1)

Forgive me, but I’m not prepared to join this walk down Great Umbrage Street just yet. Yes, it’s ugly out there. But is this worse than four years ago, when Obama was accused by the GOP vice presidential nominee of “palling around with terrorists”? Or eight years ago, when Democratic nominee John Kerry was accused of falsifying his Vietnam War record?

What’s different this time is that the Democrats are employing the same harsh tactics that have been used against them for so long, with so much success. They have ceased their traditional response of assuming the fetal position when attacked, and Obama’s campaign is giving as good as it gets — and then some.


Umbrage doesn’t win elections. Ruthlessness does.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dana-milbank-the-ugly-presidential-campaign/2012/08/15/22b72006-e726-11e1-8f62-58260e3940a0_story.html

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YES!!! "Dems Have Ceased Their Traditional Response Of Assuming The Fetal Position When Attacked" (Original Post) kpete Aug 2012 OP
It's not "attacking" a person to tell the truth about their past, it's not negative to show where... uponit7771 Aug 2012 #1
it's still an attack. barbtries Aug 2012 #2
No. It isn't. Zoeisright Aug 2012 #17
+1 Zorra Aug 2012 #23
The attacks are fundamentally different! HenryWallace Aug 2012 #27
okay. barbtries Aug 2012 #41
I agree--a recitation of facts is NOT an attack. It's a recitation of facts! nt MADem Aug 2012 #28
I agree-- the repukes tell LIES and Obama does not ailsagirl Aug 2012 #38
Its about freaking time......with the barrage of money.. Historic NY Aug 2012 #3
Also known as "The Chicago Way". . .Obama's home town. . . DinahMoeHum Aug 2012 #4
Wow! This is gunna get bloody n/t flamingdem Aug 2012 #11
except Obama was from Chicago in 2008 Enrique Aug 2012 #33
I just hope we have staying power... russspeakeasy Aug 2012 #5
That's an interesting distinction. ananda Aug 2012 #6
MHO: because it's direct. redqueen Aug 2012 #24
"Umbrage doesn’t win elections. Ruthlessness does." Tennessee Gal Aug 2012 #7
Yes brutus smith Aug 2012 #14
I don't think it's ugly. They are actually fighting and making their case AllyCat Aug 2012 #19
You are right. It isn't ugly when you fight lies with truth. Tennessee Gal Aug 2012 #40
All the Dems got for not smacking them back all those years is a black eye and bad press Lone_Star_Dem Aug 2012 #8
Taxes are baaack! Glad this didn't get dropped flamingdem Aug 2012 #12
I've read several articles today mentioning the "nothing illegal" comment. Lone_Star_Dem Aug 2012 #15
heh heh I heard that small minded comment flamingdem Aug 2012 #25
Not illegal could mean a lot of things. JDPriestly Aug 2012 #36
well to be fair, it had fallen by the wayside....until HRH Empress Ann magical thyme Aug 2012 #29
"HRH Empress Ann" Canuckistanian Aug 2012 #45
as long as we speak the truth, i say hit hard DonRedwood Aug 2012 #9
"Politics ain't beanbag" - Finley Dunne, n/t reflection Aug 2012 #10
Good treestar Aug 2012 #13
I think the Dem's have finally realized they have nothing to lose and a lot to gain as they fight kimbutgar Aug 2012 #16
I heard my neighbors complaining about the Chicago "Mob" earlier rbrnmw Aug 2012 #18
LOL, don't they wish. AverageJoe90 Aug 2012 #20
No doubt KKKarl Rove and friends rbrnmw Aug 2012 #26
Here comes another one "Zing" BrainMann1 Aug 2012 #21
Attack? Puhleeze. Z_California Aug 2012 #22
I loved Bill Clinton's response to this type of campaigning . . . aggiesal Aug 2012 #30
If... FatIrishBastard Aug 2012 #31
I'll drink to that rbrnmw Aug 2012 #32
Cheers! FatIrishBastard Aug 2012 #37
Yes Vietnameravet Aug 2012 #34
I saw the Dan Balz article at the barber shop today Enrique Aug 2012 #35
Maybe if romney didn't lie about everything... Did I Just Type This Aug 2012 #39
Not a fan of "ruthlessness." But punching back hard and fair is long overdue. DirkGently Aug 2012 #42
When they punch, Democrats must punch harder.... Historic NY Aug 2012 #43
It is about time DonCoquixote Aug 2012 #44

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
1. It's not "attacking" a person to tell the truth about their past, it's not negative to show where...
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 03:53 PM
Aug 2012

...rMoney is lying

barbtries

(28,811 posts)
2. it's still an attack.
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 03:57 PM
Aug 2012

it's just an attack with the truth instead of a half or quarter truth or bald faced lie.

 

HenryWallace

(332 posts)
27. The attacks are fundamentally different!
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:20 PM
Aug 2012

Four, and particularly eight years ago, false narratives relied on the right-wing echo chamber to advance and prolong attacks. Even when responses where immediate, there was no oxygen for them to survive.

We, as a society, are becoming more self-aware.

Today, attacks that are not fact-based don't hang around long (and may do more harm than good). The effects of the echo chamber are known and appropriately discounted (thanks to DU & other nontraditional media).

Lies play only to a candidate's base; and you cannot win with just your base.

barbtries

(28,811 posts)
41. okay.
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 07:16 PM
Aug 2012

that's semantics. our side is swinging with the truth and i'm all for it. it's not dirty tricks and it's not LIES. it's the truth. and the republicans hate it. was it truman who said, i don't give them hell, i just tell the truth and they think it's hell?

DinahMoeHum

(21,809 posts)
4. Also known as "The Chicago Way". . .Obama's home town. . .
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 04:00 PM
Aug 2012

". . .he pulls out a knife, you pull out a gun. He puts one of your men in the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. . ."

- The Untouchables (1987 movie)

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
33. except Obama was from Chicago in 2008
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:42 PM
Aug 2012

and he did not do this against McCain, nor against Hillary in their very tough race.

This strategy is more about Mitt than about Obama, imo.

ananda

(28,876 posts)
6. That's an interesting distinction.
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 04:02 PM
Aug 2012

Indeed. Why is it called a negative attack when it's the truth?

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
24. MHO: because it's direct.
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:16 PM
Aug 2012

Cautious, respectful, calmly worded responses don't get noticed.

Calling BS out in plain talk is what seems to be referred to as an attack, and it seems to be far more effective.

Tennessee Gal

(6,160 posts)
7. "Umbrage doesn’t win elections. Ruthlessness does."
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 04:04 PM
Aug 2012

Republicans have fought dirty for decades.

I welcome the sight of Democrats going on the offensive.

Yes, it's ugly. So what!

Republicans like to dish it out, but they sure can't take it!

Want some cheese with that whine?

Bring it on, Obama team!

AllyCat

(16,222 posts)
19. I don't think it's ugly. They are actually fighting and making their case
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 04:59 PM
Aug 2012

with the truth and exposing their lies since the stupid media refuses to do it. It's a thing of beauty.

Lone_Star_Dem

(28,158 posts)
8. All the Dems got for not smacking them back all those years is a black eye and bad press
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 04:08 PM
Aug 2012

Now we're hitting them back so fast they can't catch their breath. Also, the media isn't portraying us as whiny anymore for decrying their lies without hitting back.

If calling out Romney's campaign for their lies, and holding his feet to the fire on the tax returns is "ugly" or "reckless and unfair," in this day and age, then so be it. We're landing blows. That's all that matters.

The gloves are off and the Democratic Party is ready to rumble!

flamingdem

(39,321 posts)
12. Taxes are baaack! Glad this didn't get dropped
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 04:17 PM
Aug 2012

Rmoney soo wants this one to end. The msm has been covering it today to my surprise.

Lone_Star_Dem

(28,158 posts)
15. I've read several articles today mentioning the "nothing illegal" comment.
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 04:34 PM
Aug 2012

Bringing up the question why would someone use that particular phrase? And, just now one where Romney himself said those questioning his tax returns are "small minded."

That last one is sure to go over with the undecided voters like a lead balloon.

flamingdem

(39,321 posts)
25. heh heh I heard that small minded comment
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:16 PM
Aug 2012

and hope the dems can frame or slap it back.

Mitt just sets up the pins!

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
36. Not illegal could mean a lot of things.
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:51 PM
Aug 2012

It could mean I squeezed every loophole to the max, but I'm legal. It could mean I paid my debt to society so now I'm legal.

It could mean I get a lot of my income from investments overseas because I don't think America has much of a future, BUT that's perfectly legal, unpatriotic but perfectly legal.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
29. well to be fair, it had fallen by the wayside....until HRH Empress Ann
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:26 PM
Aug 2012

decided to go on the poutraged defense and assert they have released all that is legally required. Period.

Very accomodating of her, imo.

DonRedwood

(4,359 posts)
9. as long as we speak the truth, i say hit hard
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 04:10 PM
Aug 2012

they have an entire news station running 24 hour propoganda. cardboard signs are not enough to combat that.

kimbutgar

(21,188 posts)
16. I think the Dem's have finally realized they have nothing to lose and a lot to gain as they fight
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 04:35 PM
Aug 2012

back because they know they won't be getting the type of money to counter the republican money bags. By standing up to the bullies they get more free news coverage and show they have a spine. President Obama took away the national security mantle away from the republicans so why the hell not fight back. I say hear hear and it's about time.

rbrnmw

(7,160 posts)
18. I heard my neighbors complaining about the Chicago "Mob" earlier
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 04:51 PM
Aug 2012

they think that Rahm Emmanuel is working behind the scenes and stealing the election by dirty tricks

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
20. LOL, don't they wish.
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:08 PM
Aug 2012

If anyone's going to try to steal the election, it'll be some of Romney's buddies.

Z_California

(650 posts)
22. Attack? Puhleeze.
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:13 PM
Aug 2012

Another false equivalency. There is a difference between "palling around with terrorists" and the Swiftboat campaign (lies) vs. revealing that Romney keeps offshore accounts to avoid US taxes and was responsible for outsourcing jobs and destroying lives (the truth).

False equivalency = Propaganda

aggiesal

(8,923 posts)
30. I loved Bill Clinton's response to this type of campaigning . . .
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:32 PM
Aug 2012

"If they brought up the topic, it's now fair game to respond."

Clinton was a master at it.

FatIrishBastard

(51 posts)
31. If...
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:33 PM
Aug 2012

over the course of the last 40 years, you've not seen & heard enough to know just what's been going down, & knowing how these unethical, greedy frogs' have NEVER take a day off, excuse me all to hell when I say, never let up, never let down, keep 'em cornered, exploit every weakness, hit 'em with the truth, hit 'em with the facts, & be damned with the niceties.

rbrnmw

(7,160 posts)
32. I'll drink to that
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:38 PM
Aug 2012

I'm so happy that the gloves are off

It's funny how bullies always hate it when they get hit back, it always show what cowards they really were to begin with.

FatIrishBastard

(51 posts)
37. Cheers!
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 06:06 PM
Aug 2012

We tried reason, We tried compromise, We tried all of the time tested, and accepted methods of Statesmanship. And how are We repaid for playing fair, and by the rules? Hustled, demonized, dehumanized & hated Swallowed hook, line & sinker by half the country...you know, the frogs now playing the victims. Took Us a while to get past the shock of just what it all means, honest people give the benefit of the doubt, no longer.

 

Vietnameravet

(1,085 posts)
34. Yes
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:43 PM
Aug 2012

Yes they can give it but they sure cant take it!

I just have to laugh when someone like Ann Coulter says Democrats have poisoned the discussion..

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
35. I saw the Dan Balz article at the barber shop today
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 05:47 PM
Aug 2012

Balz is a good writer but the article was totally unfair. It laments how the restraints are gone, but as I see it the only ones restraining themselves have been our side. Think about Al Gore conceding in 2000, not just at the end but at several stages. The other side went all out, no restraints, and I doubt Balz said anything.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
42. Not a fan of "ruthlessness." But punching back hard and fair is long overdue.
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 07:26 PM
Aug 2012

Dems aren't anti-business. Dems aren't soft on defense. More, though, LIBERAL thoughts on not just social justice, but economics and education and infrastructure and taxation are better, have a proven track record, and are if anything, less of a wholesale "redistribution of wealth" than corporatist Republicans have in mind.

America learns slowly, and then it forgets. But attacks on the liberal / Dem *personality* is running out of steam in face of the fact that corporatist and religious fundamental policies are simply wrong and incredibly damaging.

Historic NY

(37,453 posts)
43. When they punch, Democrats must punch harder....
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 09:32 PM
Aug 2012

Nixon Rmoney is a shifty-eyed goddamn liar. . . . .He's one of the few in the history of this country to run for high office talking out of both sides of his mouth at the same time and lying out of both sides”

Harry Truman.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
44. It is about time
Thu Aug 16, 2012, 11:56 PM
Aug 2012

especially since we know we are being outspent, and that a lot of the money comes from ABROAD. This is not an election, it is the last hope of staving off civil war.

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