Think I finally figured out where the anti-government mindset comes from

[NNN0LHI]

When someone runs out of other people or entities to blame their problems on and all that is left to blame is themselves for some very bad decisions they made in the past and they won't do that.

So at that point all those problems have to become the governments fault. Because blaming themselves is a very difficult thing to do. So difficult it becomes virtually impossible.

So at that point the only thing left to blame is the government for all their problems.

I have watched this happening over and over again all around me for a while.

I just never realized what was causing it until recently.

That's it isn't it?

Don

[dawg]

1. Greed and racism.

Those two things are the source of 99% of the anti-government sentiment in this country.

[RKP5637]

3. I might add bigotry to that too. Greed, racism and bigotry. n/t

[NNN0LHI]

18. Let me add jealousy to that list

I have watched jealousy drives some people I have known right out of their minds.

Don

[nanabugg]

26. You are the winner!!! DING DING DING!!! (I'll ad "ignorance").

[MadHound]

2. I don't know about that,

Being a pacifist, living through Watergate, watching government forces smashing in the heads of innocent protesters, watching as the government takes away our civil liberties piece by piece, watching as government is being sold to the highest bidder, for these reasons and many more like them, I can understand anti-government sentiment. Frankly I'm a bit "anti-government" myself. Not in the traditional conservative sense, but more along the lines of "love my country, fear my government".

[NNN0LHI]

32. I find it strange when someone can jump from Watergate to the present without any mention of Reagan

The original anti-government asshole himself and he doesn't even get mention.

Reagan: "Government is not the solution to our problem government IS the problem"

Don

[sendero]

50. Government most certainly IS the problem right now..

... but not for the reasons the RW thinks. It is the problem because it is owned by the banksters and MF Global is the final and irrefutable proof of that.

[jody]

4. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison's Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions that protected the powers of

states against federal government aka as the 10th Amendment.

[longship]

31. Whoa! Hold on there.

The tenth amendment does so much more than what the naive view stated in your post. Let's look at it:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Simple wording, as is common in the Constitution. But what it means is important. There is a hierarchy of law: Federal, then State, then people. Anything not prohibited by federal, and not prohibited by State is legal.

But when you turn it around is when you see the importance of this amendment. Take the First Amendment freedom of press. Under our Constitution, no State can make a law infringing that freedom, no matter what. The Tenth Amendment says so.

The Tenth Amendment says that no state may make laws that infringe on the liberties enshrined in the Constitution. This was further expanded by the 14th Amendment.

The crucial clause is or to the people which gives all remaining power in their hands.

I cannot imagine a USA without this amendment. People would not have the power they do without it. Note: I do not want to hear about any recent excesses against these principles as the Amendment speaks for itself. If governments violate those principles, it is clearly our fault for not insisting on a government that doesn't violate them. Only education can cure that.

Let's get on the hump. We've got some flying to do.

[jody]

52. Please read the resolutions Jefferson and Madison wrote and study the context including Alien and

Sedition Acts before commenting further.

[n2doc]

5. It comes from 30+ years of Reagan inspired lies

Spewed from every channel of hate radio, late night show, TV twit and pol running for office.

[Freddie]

51. I blame St. Ronnie for much of it

"government is the problem, not the solution". Rinse and repeat.
Add "welfare queens", Faux News, Rush, Hannity, etc.
I have a FB friend who's a Navy Vet who constantly posts this crap about "the government". Hello??? Planning on turning down your pension and Tricare?

[enough]

6. Racism and the Anti-tax, Anti-government Cult of the Last Thirty Years:

http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=9797:racism-and-the-antitax-antigovernment-cult-of-the-last-thirty-years-the-bigotry-behind-the-reagan-doctrine

Racism and the Anti-tax, Anti-government Cult of the Last Thirty Years: The Bigotry Behind the Reagan Doctrine

JAY DIAMOND ON BUZZFLASH

The momentum, the mass, and the driving force behind the anti-tax, anti-government cult of the last thirty years, has been RACISM.

In the alleged minds of rightist, low-brow talk radio, which represents the thrust and the avante garde of movement rightwingism, any money "confiscated" from hard working (White) people is simply picked from their pockets and immediately deposited into the pockets of the "undeserving" poor (Blacks)!

That is how taxation, and therefore government is understood by tens of millions of Americans, owing to the relentless invocation of "redistribution of income". Rightwing cadres understand "redistribution" as a racial tax, and a racial transfer, from whites to blacks.

In reality, however, what happens in taxation is the transfer of private assets to a public purpose, and middle class whites are a public purpose, but many of them owing to innate racism and/or the racism stoked by the low-brow talk radio cadres, are ignorant of the real transfer (to them!), explicit in taxation.

snip>

The right, and the money interest in the United States, understands perfectly well how they can manipulate the white voter to hurt him/herself on the basis of their misrepresentation of what happens when we are taxed.

MORE>

[NNN0LHI]

8. It isn't just the right wing who has figured this out and use it either

We have Nader and others who play the same tune to the Democratic base using the very same tactics.

Why?

Because it works almost every time.

Simple as that.

I have some left leaning relatives who are beginning to sound more like LaRouchies with every passing day.

Now I know why.

Don

[AndyTiedye]

7. Those Same People Love the Government Just Fine…

…when it is in somebody else's bedroom, or every woman's womb.

[badtoworse]

9. On a personal level, I'm doing fine and I don't blame or credit the government for that.

As a country, we are in deep shit and I very much blame the government for that.

[TBF]

10. "The government" is people we vote for -

who specifically are you blaming?

[badtoworse]

33. There is no one person or political party to specifically blame.

We have had bad government for decades with Republicans and Democrats sharing the blame. Here are some of my major gripes:

Look at the treatment of the Social Security "Trust Fund" - the government spent Social Security contributions as fast as they came in leaving just a promise to pay in the "lockbox". Now that we're at the point where the government has to start making good on the promises, there's no money and we're looking at cutting benefits. Is that good government?

Look at our trade policy. We've given MFN status to China where intellectual property is routinely stolen, the environment is trashed and workers are paid shit. They dump products here with no tariff and American companies that have to pay living wages and respect the environment can't compete. Why does our government allow that to continue?

Look at our tax policy. Sure the wealthy should pay more; but the bottom 50% or so that pay no federal income tax should also have skin in the game, even if it's just a little. We need to make our corporate tax policy competitive with other countries in the world - other countries are offering a better deal and we need to be more competitive.

Look at our trade policiy in general. Starting with NAFTA, the free trade agreements have resulted in economic growth in developing countries, but what have we gotten out those agreements? As far as I can see, nothing except a steady loss of American jobs. Shouldn't the government be looking out for our workers?

I could go on about energy policy that has made us too dependent on imported oil, the level of military spending, the size of the government and the level of government regulation, but I think I've made my point. In my view, the government has just gotten it wrong in too many areas.

As I said, I can't personally complain - my wife and I have been lucky (and prudent) and we're doing pretty well. That is not true for millions of other Americans and it didn't have to get that way. I blame the government for that - things did not have to get this bad.

[TBF]

34. When were things "good"?

Maybe the 50 years (roughly 1930-80) when the ruling class played with the idea of re-distribution a bit and allowed some other than white protestant males to own some capital? That didn't last long - they reigned it in pretty quickly when they tired of it.

[badtoworse]

42. I don't look at things in terms of a ruling class

To me, that is just an excuse for not analyzing the real reasons why things happen. The period from the end of WWII up until the early 1980's we're good times in the US. There was no developing world in which to locate manufacturing and Europe and Japan were recovering from the destruction of the war. The US was the only game in town when it came to producing things and as a result, there were plenty of jobs here and things were good across the economic strata.

After Japan and western Europe recovered, things began to change. Japanese cars competed with Ford and Chevy for the lower end of the car market, while BMW and Mercedes competed with Cadillac for the high end market. It was a lot cheaper to manufacture electronics in Japan and Sony took market share from RCA and Zenith (who eventually moved to Japan). Similar forces affected other industries, such as steel and textiles. These changes accelerated in the 80's and by the 90's, our economy was very different. Reagan is largely blamed for this, but I do not believe that is accurate - the economic forces that drove it began before his presidency and were not within his control.

The free trade agreements that started with NAFTA made our economic problems worse, as did MFN for China. I don't think we can duplicate the "good times" of the 50's - 70's because that was driven by a lack of competition as much as anything. I do think the government should adopt policies that protect us from unfair competition and make the US a more attractive place to do business.

[NNN0LHI]

44. Economic forces were not within Reagan's control? Got to be joking with me

http://www.sociology.org/content/vol003.004/thomas.html  

In order to reduce corporate taxes, it was necessary to reduce the size of the welfare state. This objective was carried out by the Reagan administration. After taking office in 1981, the administration set out on a course to alter the (relatively) labor sensitive political economy to be more business friendly. Reagan appointed anti-union officials to the National Labor Relations Board, "implicitly {granting} employers permission to revive long shunned anti- union practices: decertifying unions, outsourcing production, and hiring permanent replacements for striking workers". Reagan himself pursued such a policy when he fired eleven thousand striking air traffic controllers in 1981. Regulations designed to protect the environment , worker safety, and consumer rights were summarily decried as unnecessary government meddling in the marketplace. Programs designed to help the poor were also characterized as "big government," and the people who utilized such programs were often stigmatized as lazy or even criminal. With the help of both political parties, the administration drastically cut social welfare spending and the budgets of many regulatory agencies.

The new emphasis was on "supply side" economics, which essentially "blamed the nation's ills on 'big government' and called for lower taxes, reduced federal spending (military exempted), fewer government regulations, and more private sector initiatives ". Thus, to effect a change in the political economy, Reagan was able to win major concessions regarding social policy that continue today. By taking away the safety net, the working class was effectively neutralized: workers no longer had the freedom to strike against their employers or depend upon the social welfare system as a means of living until finding employment. Business was thus free to lower wages, benefits, and the length of contracts. The overall result was that the average income for the average American dropped even as the average number of hours at work increased.
 

[badtoworse]

45. None of those things dealt with foreign competition.

I would think that the things you mentioned would have motivated companies to keep their jobs here - lower labor costs, less regulation, but that is not what happened. The jobs left anyway and that was my point.

[TBF]

53. I know you don't -

we are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I think in terms of class consciousness so we can progress past capitalism and you are thinking in terms of fixing capitalism. That's ok - at least people are figuring out which side they're on.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

40. I blame idiots that put people in power that I didn't personally vote for...

It's a cop out to give everyone equal blame.

[TBF]

54. My question was meant to ilicit a response -

and it did.

We have some very conservative posters on this site at times.

As far as assigning blame anyone who is propping up this system is guilty at this point.

[TBF]

11. They praise God for the good -

and blame the government for the bad.

For a bunch of folks who love to talk about "personal responsibility" it is the height of hypocrisy.

[independentpiney]

12. Sometimes it comes from the pulpit

I met a guy down here who I would never have thought would have RW anti-big government attitudes based on his past and current life circumstances. He's long-unemployed and lives with a woman who is on social security disability. I've garnered from our conversations he doesn't regularly watch faux or any tv news and is unfamiliar with hate radio. They are in a bad enough financial situation that he needs to hit a couple of church-run food banks every month. And he attends Sunday services and bible studies at both a Southern Baptist and an independent fundamentalist church. Anyhow his partner said something about being grateful for her ssdi and he went off in a rant about big government that included enough old testament nonsense to leave no doubt where he's gotten his ideas.

[NNN0LHI]

15. People in the pulpit can't tell people to blame themselves for their problems

If they did try doing that no one would come there and give their money to them any more.

So what you say makes perfect sense.

Don

[Lex]

13. "WE" Americans are the government. We elect the Governement. Hatred of the Government is hatred

of democracy and hatred of Americans. I've told my republican relatives this before and they just sit there *blink* *blink* empty stare.

[CJCRANE]

16. That's a good way of looking at it.

It's so obvious but so overlooked.

[NNN0LHI]

17. I have tried the same thing Lex

Their eyes just glazed over.

Don

[PD Turk]

19. We are supposed to be

We are supposed to be the government, of the people, by the people and for the people but the democratic process has been bought right out from under us, so now the government works for a few corporate interests and a very small percent of very wealthy people. All most of us have left to vote for at the ballot box anymore is "corporate shill" or "corporate shill lite"

[NNN0LHI]

20. Who are the "corporate shill lite" politicians you are referring to?

[PD Turk]

21. A lot of red state "Democrats"

Hey, we don't get a lot to choose from down here, it gets pretty depressing at election time hearing our Democratic candidates talking about how "conservative" they are

[KT2000]

14. privatization and regulations

Since Reagan, the effort has been to replace government employees with lower paid workers and high paid CEOs. Defense contractors have stepped up and are now doing what was once a government job with benefits.
I was shocked to learn that defense contractors now handling the personnel records for federal employees.
That has been so much easier to d when government is cast as something evil and private enterprise and something holy.

[HiPointDem]

24. it's those in charge of the government who are doing this. it's rank & file who are being

victimized.

[KT2000]

25. Yes - but some rank and file

have bought into the "hate government" creed.
Also - retirees in efderal service are rehired, without benefits, to do work for the private contractors. They love it.

[HiPointDem]

30. "some"

[deaniac21]

22. There damn well have never been any government policies

that have hurt anybody. Those jerks just try to point the finger wherever they can.

[wickerwoman]

28. That's probably taking it a bit far.

Government slum clearance programs in the 1960s were clearly devastating to inner city communities. Many local governments have policies that treat the homeless in inhumane, degrading ways that don't respect their civil rights.

Having said that, most US government-run programs are generally more efficient, more cost-effective, more humane and more responsive than their private equivalents would be. They are held to much higher standards and generally deliver well.

[HiPointDem]

23. no.

[jberryhill]

27. It comes from a mind inclined to lawlessness

Tell me, what sort of people think rules and laws are an intrinsic evil?

It is the people who find their aims thwarted by them.

The thief and the burglar are never fond of laws which impair their trades.

It is those who prefer the law of force, and the law of the jungle.

[wickerwoman]

29. I think sometimes it's people who have gotten a raw deal

and can't stand to see other people enjoying things that they've be screwed out of. It's easier to say someone else is cheating than to see yourself as a victim.

Like people who don't belong to unions, who have watched over the course of one generation many of the benefits that unions fought for (the 40-hour workweek, pensions, sick leave, maternity leave) disappear for everyone except public sector workers.

They'd rather resent every benefit that public sector workers get "on their dime" than stand up and fight for those things themselves- something that would require guts and commitment and putting themselves on the line.

[pipoman]

38. Who are these workers advocates in government?

We used to have a "Labor Party"..it's dead. The public union workers are victims if the ideology of the old cliche, "they came for the jews, I wasn't a jew so I did nothing..." mentality...the writing is on the wall for them too.

[JoePhilly]

35. GOP tells the white guy who isn't as successful as he thinks he should be that "scary others"

are to blame.

[Hotler]

36. Personal responsibility is for everyone other than repugs.

"I'm sorry I made a mistake" is not in their vocabulary.

[pipoman]

37. Yeah, couldn't have anything to do with..

failure to protect US jobs through trade agreements against the will of the majority, funding of wars over healthcare, bipartisan legislation for the benefit of multi-national corporations over the interest of voters, unity of the parties on issues counter to the interests of the 99%, circumvention of the legislative process through invention of new words to describe actions of government which were always meant to protect the interests of the people, abandonment of labor, loosening of laws designed to protect the people at the urging of the wealthy, taxation of the poor to avoid taxation of the rich, funding of "wars on terror" "wars on drugs" to the complete exclusion of "wars on poverty" right here at home...couldn't be any of that stuff, eh?

[Comrade_McKenzie]

39. My anti-govt mindset started just after high school and during the Bush administration...

When I was illegally raided by the state police and had all of my electronics stolen for bullshit reasons that the local police said they weren't going to waste their time on.

I still have trust issues with government. Some facets more than others and especially in red states. I think we all do.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

41. Sometimes it's --

[Blue_Tires]

43. i thought it was just as simple as listening to the local RW radio loon

[FarCenter]

46. Public school, the draft, the IRS, the police, the DMV and other bureaucrats.

Direct interactions with an agent of the government are generally involve a government representative in a position of power over the citizen.

Many of them are fairly unsatisfactory.

[badtoworse]

47. You forgot to mention unemployment.

Before it was done online, you had to report in person. I used to think they recruited their clerks from the surliest ones at DMV.

[FarCenter]

56. As of 4 years ago, you had to appear in person here for a "training session".

Social security was actually pretty good, provided you study up on the rules and regs before the appointment so that you know exactly what you want done -- that is disregarding the 1.5 hour wait past the appointment time.

The relationship of the government to the citizen is that of the sow and her piglets. Most of the time the sow cares for and nourishes the piglets, but occasionally the sow rolls over and squashes one flat. It's not deliberate; it's just that the sow is big and clumsy, and the piglets are too small and get too close.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

48. You can add

traffic cameras, the Patriot Act, police with drones, regulation bureaus that won't allow people to put garden sheds in their own backyards, kids being hassled for color sidewalks with chalk or running lemonade stands.

Let's not even delve into 34 dead miners or what is happening to Pussy Riot.

I think innately people want to trust government but sometimes government acts so petty or so heavy-handed that a healthy dose of skepticism is starting to infiltrate into the public discourse. Who wants to trust the government with healthcare when the law was patterned after a vulture capitalist's model, bought and paid for by the insurance and pharmaceutical companies and enforced by a government that bludgeons employees of a legally operating MMJ dispensary?

If they want my trust they should stop slapping me.

[FarCenter]

57. Locally they passed a "Tree Ordinance"

Developers occasionally bought a large lot, tore down the house, cut down all the trees and put up a small subivision.

This enraged the tree lovers, so they passed a tree ordinance. Now homeowners have to pay $25 per tree to get a permit to chop one down, and the premits are only issued if the tree is dead, diseased or a clear danger to life or property.

On the other hand, we get frequent wind and ice storms and broken trees and limbs play havoc with utilities and occasionally a house.

If a hurricane comes through here, they will regret not cutting down a lot of those "magnificent old trees", most of which are hollow and rotten.

[Sugarcoated]

49. You have to add the Ayn Rand worship

Her extreme philosophy of Objectivity is all about the government being evil and bad.

[rrneck]

55. In the words of Willie Sutton

"That's where the money is."

[Green_Lantern]

58. Jefferson vs. Reagan

Reagan said he believed the greatest threat to freedom was concentrated govt. power.

Jefferson believed the greatest threat to freedom is concentrated wealth and govt. power.

Jefferson didn't think govt. power was always threatening just that it was capable of threatening freedom.

Reagan was in favor of concentrated wealth for one and was even willing to support concentrated govt. power, mostly on "national security."

[Herlong]

59. Thinks Tanks

and media cohorts having the ability to finely hone this obvious mind-set of a once great and soon to be ending political party.

[kctim]

60. It isn't an "anti-government" mindset

it's a limited government mindset that has been with us from the founding of our nation.
All throughout our history, the more government grew, the more government needed, which led to the more complaints received.
Always has, always will.