Well, my heart just sank re Mueller.

[allgood33]

With the new news about Manafort dropping his plea, it appears that Trump may get away free and pardon all others in his attack on America. I hope this isn't true. Did we put too much hope in Mueller because he is such a decent man? Decent men don't win in this nasty, indecent environment.

Trump will not always be President but in the meantime, looks like he gets away clean and we lose our country and its soul.

Not feeling good today.

[MrsCoffee]

1. Lol.

Never gonna happen.

Trump and Co are toast.

[htuttle]

2. Manafort can't 'drop his plea'

He pled guilty and guilty he already is. Can't take it back. All he has to wait for is the sentencing now.

Mueller's case isn't/wasn't predicated on Manafort telling the truth, or even cooperating.

[Sanity Claws]

32. He was tried and found guilty back in August.

The second trial on additional charges was delayed because of the plea deal. I guess it became part of the plea deal and he pleaded guilty to those charges as well.

[Calista241]

35. The gov't will have a challenge using any information they gained from Manafort

without his active cooperation at trial. They basically cannot call him as a witness because they have no idea what he'll actually say. This basically muddies any information they get / got from him for any future prosecutions.

[brush]

58. They taped all of Manafort's statements during questioning. With his knowledge.

[Calista241]

70. That doesn't mean anything, and it's not guaranteed the government can submit a tape

as evidence, when the witness is available to be called to the stand. That would be hotly contested by any defense attorney. And Manafort himself could be called to confirm / deny any recordings given, and who knows what he'd say.

I mean, he's a certified, convicted liar already.

[brush]

71. Not sure if I buy that. The tapes can certainly be used for cross-referencing to catch others lying.

[fishwax]

60. that can be a problem to the extent that they were relying solely on his testimony

But if they can verify his information through other means then they should be okay. And it has appeared throughout this process that Mueller has known an awful lot about what Manafort (and others) know. I'm guessing/hoping that for much of the information Manafort supplied they have or can find corroboration.

[Siwsan]

3. I think you are underestimating Mueller

I doubt he does anything without first thinking through all of the possibilities, twists, turns and implications. I also suspect he knows all of the answers before he asks any question.

[UniteFightBack]

4. Manfort didn't drop the plea...Mueller did, Well I wish rump had your confidence

because he is acting like someone who very well knows that Mueller knows or is going to know what he has done.

[ooky]

55. Mueller didn't drop the plea either. Manafort's guilty plea is still the plea

There just won't be a deal for Manafort to get a better sentence since he lied during the cooperation with Mueller.

[rzemanfl]

5. Disagree. I think Drumpf & his minions walked into a trap.

Time will tell, allgood33.

[NightWatcher]

6. Dude (or dudette), have you seen how trump is melting down?

I'm also guessing that there's no coincidence between the written questions and answers and waiting till Mueller had trump on the record before calling Manafort a liar.

Take a breath and a long hot shower and I'm sure there will be new details later today AND EVERYDAY!

It's maddening but have faith in ..... something. Be it Mueller or America or Justice, or whatever you've got.

[Jim__]

7. Manafort didn't "drop his plea."

Mueller charges him with failing to live up to the plea agreement, but the plea itself stands.

From Fortune:

Because the plea agreement requires fulfillment of “each and every one” of the obligations that Manafort made and prohibits any criminal activity prior to sentencing, Mueller stated in the filing that Manafort has breached the agreement. He called for proceeding to a sentencing hearing. Manafort agreed to proceed as well.

Mueller also noted that the guilty pleas stand as a result, while an agreement by prosecutors to a reduced sentence based on cooperation was no longer required.

Why Manafort lied and how Mueller knew he lied are the critical questions.

[samnsara]

8. Muellers smarter than manafort, trump et all all put together.

[Kaleva]

9. Where in the news did it say that Manafort dropped his plea?

[karynnj]

10. Pardoning Manaford will lead to impeachment and the tax offenses have parallel state offenses

Which could be then charged.

[Old Vet]

16. This asshole(45) has been slowly making big moves to eventually pardon everybody............

Thank god for the state charges, Me thinks all the judges hes putting in will haunt us for a long time.

[CrispyQ]

67. It will take decades to recover from the first 18 months of this administration.

He's approaching the half way mark now. The new Democratic House better get their shit together & stand united as a force to keep this criminal in the WH in check. This Pelosi bullshit pisses me off. She's shrewd, she's tough, she got us the ACA, & the GOP hates her. What's not to like?

[better]

11. Take heart, my friend.

First of all, the news I'm seeing is not that Manafort dropped his plea deal, it's that he violated its terms, which really shouldn't surprise anyone. Idiots gonna idiot.

But second and much more encouragingly, remember that many if not all of Manafort's crimes can be prosecuted at the state level, and that as part of his plea deal, Manafort has already admitted to committing them. And he can also be re-tried for the VA charges on which he was not convicted last time.

All this really means, in my opinion, is that Manafort's testimony is of little to no value in any future prosecution of Trump. The same could be argued for Gates' testimony about Manafort, but we all clearly saw that the evidence Mueller's team had gathered against Manafort was broad and decisive enough to render Gates' credibility a minor concern in the grand scheme of things. So to will it likely be with Trump. While Manafort's testimony may be of no value, the same is not true for any hard evidence obtained from him or in the course of investigating him.

All is not lost.

[allgood33]

15. Under the radar the Trump admin is pushing to test "double jeopardy" under this SCOTUS

which really frightens me. If Trump prevails...the states would not be able to indict based on the same crimes and evidence.

Talk me down from this one , please.

[better]

17. While it is hard to count on the current SCOTUS

I intuitively don't feel like this would fly, on account of the sovereign rights of states. NY for example has laws like this, but has already closed at least some of the loopholes, particularly aimed at prosecution of tax crimes. Unlike many other crimes, tax evasion is a crime that is simultaneously committed against multiple parties in multiple jurisdictions, even though arising from the same act. In short, one act constitutes separate crimes.

I wish I could give you something more iron-clad, but there is at least this.

[Saboburns]

12. Robert Mueller is not going to save America.

If America can be saved we ourselves must do it.

You and I.

I'm not doubting Mueller. Im just saying that at the end of the day it will be up to us.

[at140]

28. You are probably correct..

We the people, must take responsibility in our own hands.

[EleanorR]

36. Based on recent voter turnout and flipping many House and Governor seats Blue

We are doing just that! No one is sitting around waiting to be saved.

[INdemo]

56. We got a pretty good start November 6th

and in 2020 Democrats have the advantage to win back the Senate and Republicans/McConnell know that.
Democrats have to perform in the House by passing legislation and not bicker at this point about selecting the one that can co-ordinate everything in the House and that's Nancy Pelosi
We keep the House, win the Senate and the White House we are well on our way of repairing our Democracy but its going to take time

[PJMcK]

13. Take an upper, allgood33

Manafort is going to be in prison for the rest of his life. Given his life's work, he deserves this fate even if one ignores his work for Trump. The man has been a life-long criminal, aiding and abetting some of the worst people in Eastern Europe's governments. He has consistently defrauded the American government and its people with his tax evasions and other criminal activities. He's a bad man who deserves his fate.

With regards to Trump, Manafort may or may not have information that will be beneficial to Robert Mueller's investigations. But it doesn't matter because Manafort is hardly the only witness/defendant in Mr. Mueller's inquiries.

Your post raises a question, however. Just because Manafort has turned out to be a liar-- something everyone already knew-- why do you think he is the lynch-pin in Mr. Mueller's investigations?

One other point: by breaching his plea agreement, he is sacrificing almost all of his financial and real assets. The man and his family will be broke.

Have faith and feel better.

[brush]

62. It just came out in the Guardian that Manafort secretly met with Assange in...

Last edited Tue Nov 27, 2018, 02:15 PM - Edit history (1)

2014, '15 and '16—trump's campaign manager met with the Russian asset who released Democratic emails the day the Access Hollywood tape came out of trump bragging about his sexual assaults on women.

[PJMcK]

66. Right?

I'm so surprised the Manafort knew Assange, aren't you?

(snark)

It's remarkable how all of the threads are beginning to stitch together.

[allgood33]

14. I knew I could count on all of you to lift my spirits. THANKS!

[mwooldri]

18. I understand state charges may be in the works.

The federal president cannot pardon for state crimes. That would be down to the governor.

Besides we have no control over Robert Mueller's investigation or what he will do. We can however work to get great candidates on the ballot for 2020 and Dump the Trump that way.

[Javaman]

19. your concern is noted. nt

[malaise]

41. Ha

[Merlot]

45. Perhaps some "thoughts and prayers" sent their way as well?

[In It to Win It]

20. I believe that Manafort also pleaded guilty to state charges as well that Trump can't pardon

[Jersey Devil]

37. Not really

Manafort did admit crimes that would amount to state charges when he entered his guilty pleas, but no state charges have ever been filed. If they really want to pressure him those state charges should now be brought. His testimony will never be worth anything, but the information he provides might.

[In It to Win It]

39. Really? My bad. I thought I read in an article that he pleaded guilty to state charges.

[Jersey Devil]

40. No state charges were ever filed to my knowledge

To plead to state charges you would have to appear in state court. You cannot plead to state charges in federal court.

[PubliusEnigma]

21. I'm certain this concern is authentic. Really, I am.

[FSogol]

22. +1 LOL, you know who else heart just sank? Trumpys!

[Paladin]

23. Thanks for your concern, comrade. (nt)

[LexVegas]

24. ...

[WhiteTara]

25. Mueller withdrew the plea deal and is having

Manafort sentenced. He waited until trump turned in his written answers and now he is in a vise because he and Manafort conspired to lie.

[Botany]

26. Well, you can always go ...

[pnwmom]

27. In five and a half weeks the Democrats will control the House.

If Mueller has somehow been fired, they can appoint him to run an investigation for the House.

And none of the sealed indictments he's been banking will go away.

[duforsure]

29. Mueller is way ahead of Manafort and trump

This will backfire on them badly, and just another group of charges that will keep him behind bars forever. If trump pardons a co-conspirator he's also done , and his pardons won't stand up in any court. trump can't pardon people that are with him in the process of doing any crimes. Pardoning would also be a crime. Mueller's way ahead of these two con men and criminals. And Assange and others too. Mueller knows all already. They're entrapping themselves now even more.

[33taw]

30. Manafort can face state charges on some of his crimes. He knows this. Trump can only issue

..a pardon for federal crimes. Regardless, the house will begin public hearings in January. I believe these will be effective in getting the information out in the open. So far, we have seen only limited “censored” information from any government body, including the special counsel’s office. I agree the people can only be the ones to save the republic. Public knowledge will be our savior and it won’t come via the press. Public knowledge will come from the representatives that we send to congress in 2019. We cannot back down on GOTV efforts - ever.

[DeminPennswoods]

31. Rick Gates knows as much, if not more, than Manafort

and he is fully cooperating. Remember Gates stayed on with the campaign after Manafort officially left it.

Never forget, prosecutors generally know the answers to questions they are asking. Otherwise, they wounldn't be able to know if you are being truthful or not.

Manafort is a liar, crook and generally unsavory person. I'm sure Mueller's team was at least a little conflicted about potentially helping reduce his sentence. Manafort's arroganec helped make that worry irrelevent. I'm sure the prosecutors are just fine with sending him to jail for what will likely be most, if not all, of the rest of his life.

[malaise]

33. Dream on

The Con is up shit creek with his family and without a paddle.
That is all.

[leftynyc]

34. WTF are you talking about?

Manafort didn't drop his plea. He was tried and convicted on 8 charges, a mistrial on the rest and a whole different trial was scheduled. The mistrial charges and the other trial was part of a plea agreement that rested Manafort pleading guilty on those other charges with the expectancy of leniency AND on Manafort telling the truth to Mueller. Manafort lied (according to Mueller) and therefore will be sentenced accordingly. He can spend the rest of his life in prison if he chooses.

[Adrahil]

38. He's already plead. He cannot drop it.

Dude is going to jail.

And as one expert said this morning, there is reason to believe Trump should be worried by this result. If Mueller is accusing Manafort of crimes and lying in violation of the agreement, then he has hard evidence for that. That means when Manafort was lying to him he had hard evidence that he was lying. He already knew the truth.

[USALiberal]

46. Dude will get a Trump pardon! Guaranteed! Nt

[Adrahil]

49. And states will file charges...

He is so fucked. He knows it. He’s just trying to keep the Russians from killing his family.

The Guardian story is probanly why. Manafort was. Russian asset.

[USALiberal]

59. Are we sure of that? That the state can file them? Nt

[duforsure]

51. I agree

He may well get a pardon , but when taken to court it won't stand as he was a co-conspirator involved , and it not only would be an abuse of power, but another charge against himself for obstruction of justice, and an illegal act that won't hold up.

[at140]

54. Pardoning any criminal is a power specifically assigned to

The president by US Constitution. I doubt courts can overrule the Constitution. Need a constutional Amendment to strip that ridiculous power which can be abused without consequences.

[brush]

65. Manafort's been in jail since the summer. Now he'll die in jail.

[Andy823]

42. Your concern is dully noted

Again!

[democratisphere]

43. This smells like RW propaganda and BS!

[Glimmer of Hope]

44. Poor baby!

[TeamPooka]

47. Not a lawyer, huh?

[krawhitham]

48. If they know he is lying then they know the truth

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

50. Not feeling good today? Read this........

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/25/robert-mueller-donald-trump-russia-investigation

[JudyM]

69. Thanks for that article.

It’s a good wrap up of where things stand.

[WeekiWater]

52. I can't imagine living like this.

I really find it to be amazing.

One question. What was your thought process on this matter yesterday morning?

[democrank]

53. I'm glad I have my hip boots on.

I’m about to bring some oatmeal muffins to the farmer next door. Lots of bullshit there.

[brush]

57. You're misreading it. Manaforts lies showed up on trump's take-home exam.

Mueller now knows both lied.

[Grasswire2]

61. How long you been around here?

Oh......not so long.

Buck up.

[BannonsLiver]

63. Your "concern" is duly noted.

[beachbum bob]

64. tun off foxnews, manafort drop no plea and already been convicted and may face many more

trials at federal AND state level

little trump can do about it at this time

[H2O Man]

68. The sky is falling!