Did Nancy make a mistake today?

[underpants]

Hear me out on this. I think she's played everything so well but...

According the news report I heard on NPR, at the meeting today Trump wanted to know if the government reopened could he get his wall money. Nancy, reportedly, said flat No. then Trump stormed out.

Based on that here's my question.

Should she have taken the re-Open without committing to the money?

Trump is screwed either way. Why not achieve your prime goal without really giving up anything?

[cynatnite]

1. She could've said here is money for border security like you asked for...

But then, he would still have wanted the wall and the answer would have been the same.

Why waste time?

[Vinca]

2. But Trump wasn't interested in dealing unless he got his wall money.

He had no intention of opening the government until his $5.7 billion ransom was paid. If they give in to the toddler he'll pull this every time he wants something.

[deurbano]

16. Yes. This would only be the beginning.

[cwydro]

7. Oh good lord.

Do you check out the cosmetic weaknesses on the men too?

[UniteFightBack]

15. Well it was nice having you around ! nt

[cynatnite]

14. Wow, that could cost the Dems their majority!

[BumRushDaShow]

4. In "real life" congressional negotiations

the underling congress critters and their aides are the ones who actually go behind closed doors and work on these deals. Not the leadership. I.e., a "Gang of <fill in the blank number>". In some cases, that "Gang" has members from both chambers.

So IMHO, this is a bit of theater.

[Caliman73]

12. The underlings work out the details, but the Reps/Senators still have to say Yes or No.

It is certainly theater because it is Trump. Usually the Congress members come out after or very close to when the details have been worked out and announce the deal. Trump thinks that "negotiating" in front of the cameras makes him look good. Maybe only to his small base, but he keeps getting slapped down.

[BumRushDaShow]

20. Right - the congress folks are the "Gang of..." part

so they are in the room, without their leadership, making the compromises, and are willing to sell it to their respective caucuses. They may go back to the leadership to get some guidance, but basically, it's a point by point slog. I used to be an officer in our office's union and had gone through days of negotiations to come up with a follow-on labor contract (and have taken a number of training sessions and workshops on "negotiations" ).

But yes - the temper tantrums and sound bite TV bit is not a negotiation and it will never produce anything.

[Baltimike]

5. *Nope*. nt

[rufus dog]

6. I am a bit confused

Are you suggesting she lie?

Take the open but not give the money in 30 days?

If that is the case think about the consequences.

1. tRump would claim victory
2. Many Dems, including me, would have been pissed off
3. The media would report how tRump won
4. Then she pulls back the money
5. tRump calls her out for the lie
6. The media calls her out for the lie and claims she is a weak on not to be trusted leader.

I really hope I am confused.

[skylucy]

34. Best response post! +100000! And you are definitely NOT confused!

[KentuckyWoman]

9. She's already given him the total $ he wants.

He's being pissy because she won't take $5 Billion plus out of the total and earmark it for his big beautiful wall. She taking away his ability to manipulate his base regarding re-election.

[apcalc]

10. Not at all. She is also representing the House Democrats ( and us)who want her to stand firm.

Why play games? Why mince words?
He needs to know there are strong women who are going to lay out the word and not be bullied.

I say give it to him straight, Nancy.

[ProudLib72]

11. Well, that would have set her and Dems up to take the blame down the road

Mollify him now and be lambasted later when we refuse to let him have his wall. No, this way the subject is moot. There will be no wall, so it isn't even worth mentioning.

[NRaleighLiberal]

13. No, she played it perfectly.

[mshasta]

17. Did trump make a mistake today?

[allgood33]

18. Both Nancy (and I love her) and Chuck are missing golden opportunities to give out some critical

facts when they are on camera, especially when they are responding to Trump's tantrums. They could have pointed out that there is no "emergency" because illegal immigration from our southern border is at its lowest 12 years. They should have pointed out that Trump keeps saying that his administration is doing such a wonderful job at the border that's why the numbers are so low BUT all that good stuff is happening WITHOUT THE WALL that the GOP claims is so necessary. And further more, most of those children will be young adults by the time the wall that Trump says he wants can be finished.

And, to me, they need to make a bigger deal about employers, like Trump, who continue to hire undocumented workers while screaming about asylum seekers coming here for better jobs.

Maybe they should get AOC to help them get some energy into their talking points?

[demtenjeep]

24. it is Madame Speaker and Senate Minority leader

you don't know them personally so don't use N and C



sorry-it is a pet peeve of mine

[tblue37]

29. They need to repeat the fact that they *have* provided money for *effective* border security.

The problem with Democrats in general is that they make a point, then eventually move on to something else. The Repubs pick a talking point and then all of them (including their media mouths) harp on it over and over and over again, across all of their platforms.

[Blue_true]

31. Good point about harping one point over and over.

Republicans have that down to an artform. But I believe that the clumsiness of Trump is negating republicans talking points.

[Demsrule86]

19. That is not how it happened by all reports...she as to agree to the money before he reopens the

government. In fact Schumer asked why he wouldn't reopen the government and then work on this...he said because then e wouldn't get his way.

[Caliman73]

21. Trump owns the shut down so no, Pelosi made no mistake.

What ALL democratic congress people need to do is tighten up on the message. Stop saying Border Security. Trump does not want Border Security he wants to waste NOT 5 but 20 to 100 billion on a Wall that will do absolutely nothing to protect people.

Trump has no leverage other than his lack of empathy over the people he is hurting. That is also the Democrats Achilles' Heel. We Democrats do not want to hurt people, especially our own citizens so the lack of payment for the employees is weighing on them.

As others have said, you don't want to lie to get what you want, especially with a media that is itching to cast Democrats as "just as bad" as Trump.

[mrsv]

22. No

[shraby]

23. He backs out of deals.

[brush]

30. That's right. He can't be trusted. trump is the one who made the mistake...

during the campaign when he promised a wall Mexico would pay for.

Big mistake. Now he knows he has to deliver or no re-election. His problem is that Pelosi and Schumer know that as well, so no, the Speaker did not make a mistake.

[NoMoreRepugs]

25. My trust is in Madame Speaker.

Out maneuvering tRumpy mostly requires letting him talk and paint himself into a corner. Patience is in Madame Speakers toolbox.

[Wounded Bear]

26. Pay attention to their rhetoric, it matters...

When Madam Speaker and the Sen Minority Leader came out, they said Trump asked for them to open the government if he approved the money for the wall. When she said, "No" he walked (stormed, ran) out.

When Pence and the Repubs came out, they said that Madam Speaker and the Min Leader turned down money for border security and the wall.

Perhaps a suble difference that the Rube-pubs will buy, but definitely an attempt at a rhetorical trick.

Who do you believe? IDK about you, but I certainly do not believe Trump or Pence.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

27. Bc he would've walked out the door and said 'we start building the wall in a month.'

"I won".
Speaker should never have gone there. Last night they were sending second stringers to meet these people, so they could dig in to the D agenda in Congress. What happened?

[aikoaiko]

28. I know what you mean...she could have replied that we'll talk after we reopen

Which is what she has been saying all along.

He probably would have still walked out.

[brush]

33. Nah, how many times do we have to see him go back on his word to know...

he can't be trusted.

The Speaker did the right thing. The pressure is on trump to end the shutdown "he took the mantle on", remember. Once the checks don't go out on the 11th and the hardship stories keep being reported in the media he'll start scrambling to find a face-saving way to end it.

And fuck him. He's had two years with total repug rule and couldn't get it done. Let him get a taste of what two-party government tastes like because that what he'll be seeing for the rest of his term—if he survives Mueller.

[Generic Brad]

32. He's never going to get his wall

He will never live to see anyone raking the California forest.

He is never going to see Space Force.

If he's only going to push follies, he can sit on it and spin.

[no_hypocrisy]

35. Here's the thing:

Speaker Nancy Pelosi is savvy enough to understand that unless Trump accepts the fact that he can't use shutting down the government to bend the will of The People via Congress, she is not going to "negotiate" or "compromise", which essentially means doing it Trump's way. Separation of Powers.

[GeorgeGist]

36. If I release the hostage ...

will you pay the ransom?