Should robots be forced to pay income tax and Social Security?

[gulliver]

That would make it easier for people to compete with them. Also, we're going to get to a time where we will have retirees depending on "workers" for Social Security checks. Robot workers won't help with that. Every worker a robot displaces is actually one less to support retirees.

It would be interesting to track the social benefit of robots. Sure, they produce lower cost goods. But since they earn no money, don't eat, don't live anywhere (so they don't participate in the real estate market), don't get haircuts, require no transportation or education, etc., their overall effect might be really, really bad.

It seems to me like robots are conceptually a kind of legal immigrant that requires no naturalization, is not subject to any quotas, and works at low wages (no wages). Also, they aren't human.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

1. Only makes sense... those who take the jobs of others should help support those who are displaced.

[NurseJackie]

28. And tractor tillers and harvesters...

... they replace workers too.

[grumpyduck]

2. Don't go there!

That's how the whole mess with the Terminator series started - the robots refused to pay taxes.

[gulliver]

7. LOL

Hope they aren't scanning DU.

[Hotler]

25. Angent Mike is.

Hi agent Mike .

[WillowTree]

3. Forced to pay income tax and Social Security out of what, since they don't get paid?

[gulliver]

6. A surcharge on their operators/owners, maybe.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

8. Oh, like personal computers.

Think of all the workers they've replaced -- sales clerks, letter carriers.

You're right: the owners/users of personal computers should be taxed accordingly.

{ETA, after you replied}: Start with 100 percent of the cost of the computer and any internet connection fees, to be paid annually.

It's only fair.

[gulliver]

11. Yes, some sort of tariff schedule might include those.

The point would be to allow humans to compete with machines at some level. I realize, people make some of the machines and so forth, so robot making is a good job. I didn't say it would be easy.

[Doodley]

4. If they are given the same rights as humans.

[unblock]

5. Forced? Never! They should be programmed to do it voluntarily!

[MrGrieves]

36. hehehehe

programmed to do it voluntarliy. LOL!

[MichMan]

9. Why not add computers, tractors, cars, trucks, & microwave ovens too?

[mahatmakanejeeves]

10. In "The Ten Commandments," Edward G. Robinson had people to

carry him around. Now he'd have a car. Tax it.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

17. Don't forget refrigerators.

Think of all the icemen who lost their jobs.

[bitterross]

19. We already do for most of those

We tax the heck out of vehicles.

[MichMan]

20. A FICA tax every year on them to make up for the wages of people ?

Every person working 40 hrs per week making $15 per hour pays $4680 per year into Social Security and Medicare

[MichMan]

21. That would be for every single job replaced

[RockRaven]

12. There should probably be some sort of value added tax for robot and computer productivity

whether the use of it is Social Security for retirees, or minimum basic income, or some other use... I would be open to considering a number of different uses for the revenue.

[MichMan]

14. FICA tax is 15%

If you assume one worker displaced at $15 per hour x 40 hours per week x 52 weeks a year. That would equal $4680 per worker not needed.

[rownesheck]

13. No.

I have the solution. Let the robots take over all the jobs, but give the displaced workers the pay. I'd love to get paid and not have to work. Hell, I'd take less pay. Like bill hicks used to say, "i imagine a world where we all get paid to do nothing!"

[Wounded Bear]

15. Silly question...

the real problem is that corporations who replace human workers with robots don't pay enough taxes.

[bitterross]

23. Your response is correct.

Your response is the exact reason this should be done. Alternate way of raising revenue.

[gulliver]

24. Good idea.

Works for me.

[Joe941]

16. I'll wait to see what Bernie says.

[samnsara]

18. they should at least pay the cost of batteries, repairs and upgrades...

…..I mean its only fair.

[bitterross]

22. I think that's a great idea!

One can conceptually equate the productivity of robots to humans. So tax them at half or a third of the taxes for people. Put meters on them and tax by the hour.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

26. Good idea! In addition, railroads should be required to go back to steam locomotives.

When the railroads dieselized, hundreds of thousands of perfectly good coal mining and railroad jobs were lost.

Boiler makers, coal tipple operators, roundhouse hostlers, the men who greased the bearings of side rods. Gone; all gone.

Replaced by ... well, no one.

[dweller]

27. along the vein of

"corporations are people too" ?
🤔

✌🏼️

[jberryhill]

29. The entire infrastructure for dealing with horse drawn vehicles...

...is hard for us to appreciate now.

Horses were part of the urban landscape. They needed to be shoed, housed, fed, harnessed, unharnessed, and required the care and attention of a slew of specialized workers simply to deal with the fact that they were the primary source of power for transportation of goods and people.

There were thousands of them. They filled the streets of cities.

We need to start with back pay for all the people now who would have otherwise been engaged in the care and management of horses.

[NBachers]

33. Orange Alley, outside my San Francisco apartment, is lined with former horse stall space.

Many of the buildings still have the second-story lofts with a hayloft pulley hanging over the alley, where bales of hay were hoisted to feed the horses. Wide doors open directly above the alley. A block away was a corral and yard for horses and their vehicles. Plenty of buildings are still standing that were originally part of the horse transportation industry.

My sister's house has a ramp along the side, leading into the area beneath the house. It's now living quarters, but the ramp used to be the way for horses to enter and exit their under-the-building stalls.

My Erie Canal hometown of Spencerport has nice wood-framed homes in the central village part of town. Many of these homes, when I grew up, still had the large concrete block along the street, where people would step out of their horse-drawn carriages.

If you keep your eyes open and know how to look, you can see these remnants of not-so-long-ago all over the place. You only have to go back a couple of generations to find people who were familiar with all this.

[jberryhill]

34. Interesting.

I’ll be taking a bike trip down the Erie Canal later this year (from Syracuse to Albany at least).

I’ll have to look sharper in some of the older neighborhoods of Philadelphia, because I do wonder where all that stuff went. Maybe I just don’t know what to look for.

[NBachers]

38. I think a lot of it's still there; it's just been re-purposed. Detached old garage buildings; second

story doors opening directly onto the alley; old firehouse buildings with wide, heavy - hinged doors that would be thrown open for the horse-drawn fire engines to race down the street . . .

I sure miss my old Erie Canal hometown.

[NBachers]

30. There will emerge a Microsoft / Apple / Google / Amazon / Facebook style of robot production

and implementation. Look there for clues on how socially responsible their policies will be. But, hey- they'll be Disruptive!

[WeekiWater]

31. This one seems really simple to me.

No.

[Hoyt]

32. Clearly something will have to be done at some point. Theoretically, companies "employing" robots

will make more money, at least for a time. Hence, corporate taxes and capital gains tax should be increased.

Also, more people will be employed in producing and maintaining robots, increasing employment at least in that segment. Automation does not necessarily replace people one for one. In the best case, it makes a worker much more productive. In other cases, we might need to have some new tax to offset any loss in employment taxes from automation.

Glad I won't be around to see just how bad the long-term is unless we figure out some balance between people, workers, companies and government. Countries like Denmark seem to have pulled it off, at least at this time, but I'm not sure America is smart or cooperative enough.

Maintaining a balance between tax and sufficient economic activity to produce revenue needed for healthcare, education, safety net, retirement, etc, is a political challenge that will get more difficult. I'd rather that challenge is met by Democrats, but not ones who think investment can't be pulled from America and made elsewhere.

[sl8]

35. Including Roombas?

[brooklynite]

37. How much does your cell phone pay?

You presumably don't demand that an operator place all of your calls?

[cynatnite]

39. No, not for a simple automated machine type of robot...

If you're talking about more advanced AI that can handle more complex jobs, have capability to make decisions, reason and so on, then that's a whole different bushel of apples. Then the question would be if they're sentient and have a sense of self. Perhaps, then, they should be considered the same as human.

[doc03]

40. How do you define a robot? Is a continuous mining machine a robot?

How about a backhoe? How about a hay baler or combine? A nail gun? They all eliminate jobs and have been around for decades.

[Voltaire2]

41. No.

Should a truck pay income tax?

[Kaleva]

42. Retirees have always been supported by workers

Your comment:

" Also, we're going to get to a time where we will have retirees depending on "workers" for Social Security checks."

The above has been the case since the very beginning of SS. Ida May Fuller paid $24.75 in tax until she retired and then collected $22,888.92 in Social Security benefits until she passed away at the age of 100.