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kpete

(71,996 posts)
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 08:59 AM Jan 2019

Structural Engineer: The WALL is busted!

Fascinating read analyzing the flaws in Trump’s wall(s). President-expert-on-everything-in-Chief hasn’t addressed any engineering or environmental issues, and there are many, not to mention technology that will make the wall obsolete before it is finished. The WALL is busted!


Breaking News: Structural engineer Amy Patrick rips gigantic crater into Trumps wall.









36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Structural Engineer: The WALL is busted! (Original Post) kpete Jan 2019 OP
expert on everything ... Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2019 #1
Interesting. "It messes with..." and "Messes w all kinds of stuff ecologically" JDC Jan 2019 #2
She is spot on about the ecological downside of the wall. Botany Jan 2019 #4
She isn't an environmental engineer radical noodle Jan 2019 #7
Wow, amazing that is your take away. nt USALiberal Jan 2019 #10
What should my takeaway be? Validation that my current position is reinforced by the Facebook rant JDC Jan 2019 #20
She's a structural forensistist. :) Would you WANT such an expert to Hortensis Jan 2019 #28
d'you think, maybe, this is written for the general public? shanny Jan 2019 #15
Perhaps. I am an engineer, so maybe this is my issue JDC Jan 2019 #21
OK. I'm a member of the general public and I'm thinking I'm the target audience. shanny Jan 2019 #24
i am sorry if I offended. JDC Jan 2019 #26
Scientist Here, JDC ProfessorGAC Jan 2019 #30
You're right. Fuzzpope Jan 2019 #17
lol shanny Jan 2019 #25
You're not the only one. sl8 Jan 2019 #22
Well, that's if you want to build it the right way. tanyev Jan 2019 #3
Excellent! FWIW here's the link to the engineer's OP on Facebook... WePurrsevere Jan 2019 #5
Thank you! Just shared it on my FB Maeve Jan 2019 #14
That sums it up... BlueJac Jan 2019 #6
Usable versions of links in OP: sl8 Jan 2019 #8
Thanks, I wanted to share this. Martin Eden Jan 2019 #27
Thanks, sl8. I was just about to go cut and paste. Hortensis Jan 2019 #32
This isn't really about building a wall The Blue Flower Jan 2019 #9
This. BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2019 #12
I doubt if Putin is directing this shanny Jan 2019 #16
Don't forget feeding expectations of their "red in tooth and claw" base. Hortensis Jan 2019 #31
this is a distraction, the old razzle dazzle, scarytomcat Jan 2019 #19
In your face fatass, with science and REALITY. BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2019 #11
Everyone should share this riverbendviewgal Jan 2019 #13
This analysis does not matter. Yavin4 Jan 2019 #18
Yes, structural issues also matter. :) If you were going to stop Hortensis Jan 2019 #29
What if the city council is as bigoted as my neighbor? n/t Yavin4 Jan 2019 #34
Building code rules. Hortensis Jan 2019 #35
Even though you are a racist it should not mean you lack COMMON SENSE. nt UniteFightBack Jan 2019 #23
"Border Walls Get Teched Out" Hortensis Jan 2019 #33
K&R Scurrilous Jan 2019 #36

JDC

(10,129 posts)
2. Interesting. "It messes with..." and "Messes w all kinds of stuff ecologically"
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 09:09 AM
Jan 2019

Makes this feel a little less engineer-y to me. I gotta be honest.

Botany

(70,516 posts)
4. She is spot on about the ecological downside of the wall.
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 09:36 AM
Jan 2019

The North American Jaguar
The Mexican Grey Wolf
The Desert Bighorn Sheep
Butterflies

and many other parts of the areas native ecology would be hammered by that stupid wall

radical noodle

(8,003 posts)
7. She isn't an environmental engineer
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 09:50 AM
Jan 2019

Let's be fair. It does mess with a lot of stuff, and only a person knowledgeable about that kind of science would be able to detail it properly. Most folks don't even think of the ecological damage.

JDC

(10,129 posts)
20. What should my takeaway be? Validation that my current position is reinforced by the Facebook rant
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 01:14 PM
Jan 2019

of a wall expert? This is just more feel-good that you are on the right side of the issue. Was there something in this post that was relevatory for you? Eco impact, check. Can build a ladder to get over it, check. It will cost more that estimated, check.

She forgot the incalculable costs associated with eminent domain land grabs. But we should probably wait for the Facebook post blowing crater sized holes in the wall from a real estate agent for that. But only if that agent repeats several times that they have sold property before. Because when folks need land sellin', they call them in. Maybe tomorrow.






Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
28. She's a structural forensistist. :) Would you WANT such an expert to
Sun Jan 13, 2019, 07:22 AM
Jan 2019

try to address social, legal and environmental issues in detail? It's a layman-level summary of structural issues, which do involve environmental concerns. Not everyone's as informed as you are.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
15. d'you think, maybe, this is written for the general public?
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 11:12 AM
Jan 2019

you know, easy to understand terms w/o getting into the technical weeds that will just pass people by? (as engineers are known to do, at least in my experience)

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
24. OK. I'm a member of the general public and I'm thinking I'm the target audience.
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 03:15 PM
Jan 2019

And if you are concerned about her bona fides, why not look her up?

JDC

(10,129 posts)
26. i am sorry if I offended.
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 04:20 PM
Jan 2019

My point is that her engineering background has no relevance to what she is saying. Anyone could have said that and we would have all said "yes, that's right" Eco, Costs, ladder, etc etc. how about a general contractor? Maybe an front loader or grader operator? They understand flooding, cost overruns, environmental impact.

Which point changed your mind? Or does it just make us feel better because of the engineering background - "Now our wall argument has merit because an engineer says so." This just reinforces what we already think. Those points matter not to those opposed - most certainly not because she has a forensic structural background. Were we worried about the wall falling down?
I think you underestimate the general public who do realize that the impact would/could be significant on many, many levels not the least of which were cost/overruns and the eco-system of the border lands/waters. The folks who want the wall don't care. At all.

Sorry if I offended, it was not my intent.

ProfessorGAC

(65,076 posts)
30. Scientist Here, JDC
Sun Jan 13, 2019, 07:52 AM
Jan 2019

I had the same initial concerns, but went "general public" as others mentioned.
The one piece in her article that was not necessarily obvious is WHY the cost would grossly overrun.
And if this WAS written for the average person, then I think she did well.

 

Fuzzpope

(602 posts)
17. You're right.
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 11:20 AM
Jan 2019

Let's get a rebuttal from Trump's engineering team.

I'll just be over here, waiting.


sl8

(13,787 posts)
22. You're not the only one.
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 03:03 PM
Jan 2019

Overall, I thought it was an interesting piece with plenty of good points, but the 'it messes with" stuck out like a sore thumb to me. I don't think I could have gotten away with that in a junior high paper. Then again, I'm old.

tanyev

(42,568 posts)
3. Well, that's if you want to build it the right way.
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 09:22 AM
Jan 2019

If you just want it for show, and to funnel money to cronies, then $5.7 billion is a pretty good haul.

Maeve

(42,282 posts)
14. Thank you! Just shared it on my FB
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 11:04 AM
Jan 2019

If I get any complaints, I will suggest they go to her FB page and explain why they know more about walls than she does.

sl8

(13,787 posts)
8. Usable versions of links in OP:
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 10:06 AM
Jan 2019
...
. 3) The prototypes they came up with are nearly impossible to build or don’t actually do the job. This article explains more: https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.engineering.com/amp/17599.html

[Which redirects to https://www.engineering.com/BIM/ArticleID/17599/Writing-on-the-Wall-Report-Suggests-Border-Project-Is-Off-Track-and-Over-Budget.aspx
Writing on the Wall: Report Suggests Border Project Is Off-Track and Over Budget]

And so on. The estimates provided for the cost are arrived at unreasonably. You can look for yourself at the two-year-old estimate that you see everyone citing. http://fronterasdesk.org/sites/default/files/field/docs/2016/07/Bernstein-%20The%20Trump%20Wall.pdf

...

The Blue Flower

(5,442 posts)
9. This isn't really about building a wall
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 10:10 AM
Jan 2019

This is about doing the bidding of Putin and bringing the US government and its people to their knees.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
16. I doubt if Putin is directing this
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 11:15 AM
Jan 2019

although he is no doubt enjoying it. This is a vanity project: "The Great Wall of Trump".

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
31. Don't forget feeding expectations of their "red in tooth and claw" base.
Sun Jan 13, 2019, 07:55 AM
Jan 2019

WH leaks say Trump is terrified of losing their support. Post-WH prison seems quite possible if they turn on him.

As for Putin "no doubt enjoying it," fur sure. My guess is his aides include even the most ridiculous stuff in his morning briefings to get his day off to a good start.

riverbendviewgal

(4,253 posts)
13. Everyone should share this
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 10:51 AM
Jan 2019

With friends, family and MSN. MSNBC, CNN. Print it and put on walls where people can see.

Yavin4

(35,442 posts)
18. This analysis does not matter.
Sat Jan 12, 2019, 11:28 AM
Jan 2019

The wall is designed to make certain White people feel protected. That is its purpose.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
29. Yes, structural issues also matter. :) If you were going to stop
Sun Jan 13, 2019, 07:28 AM
Jan 2019

a bigoted neighbor from building a giant spite fence would you rather try by presenting accusations of bigotry to the city council or would it be helpful to point to text and/or intent of building codes it would violate?

I loved hearing Nancy Pelosi state right out that it was a moral issue, but that's hardly the only issue. It's not even the only important one. Happily, there are many. So many even a Republican-controlled congress with a wall-ranting electoral base wouldn't pass it.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
33. "Border Walls Get Teched Out"
Sun Jan 13, 2019, 08:37 AM
Jan 2019

Another article from the engineering.com website linked in this article. This is just technology available right now, not what's coming, but frankly the "invisible wall" is potentially a lot scarier than one we can climb over. We must get liberals and others devoted to the rights of the people in control of government.

"And, more than almost any border wall before it, the new border replaces on-the-scene manpower with surveillance devices like underground motion sensors, remote-operated cameras, long-range radar towers, aerostats (balloons and blimps) and drones.

Currently, there are more than 12,000 remote sensors buried along the border and three radar-enabled towers that can track people from up to 7 miles away. Both systems are linked with centralized cameras, so that any disturbances can be monitored by Border Patrol agents in a centralized location. Agents should be able to pick up on disturbances, monitor them for their level of “threat,” and only leave their locations to deal with actual attempted border-crossings. CBP also has a small fleet of Predator drones that enable the agency to photograph huge swathes of the border from the air.

Remote sensors are particularly useful in the Rio Grande Valley section of the border, where protected natural parks prevent border agents from clearing dense foliage around the border. Manuel Padilla Jr., the Border Patrol sector chief for the area, told the New York Times that more sensors are necessary to secure the area: “In the absence of being able to get in there, we need to be able to see what’s going on so we can catch drug trafficking and other activity before those who are doing it reach cities in the region.”

As heavy-tech as the areas between crossings are, the “invisible wall” becomes even stronger at the areas around authorized crossings. At crossover points like the one in Hidalgo, Texas, automatic license plate readers (ALPRs) take photos of the license plates, cars and drivers of border-crossing cars, which are then run through a database that holds information about criminal records and immigration law violations. Even if the search doesn’t trigger an alert, the information the ALPR collects is stored in the database, giving Border Patrol officials a complete record of who has crossed the border, and when.

But perhaps the most advanced use of border security technology may be used far away from the border: the use of biometric information at airports. U.S. Customs and Border Protection’s Biometric Air Exit program takes travelers' biometric information as they leave the United States by air. In 2004, CBP developed a program that uses fingerprints for biometric identification, and it’s currently developing and expanding a facial recognition program. These programs are implemented in partnership with airlines. And the Goodlatte-McCaul bill, which is currently making its way through Congress, would expand the use of biometric information even further, allowing CBP to take biometric information from everyone leaving the U.S.

At the 2016 Annual Border Security Expo in San Antonio, FLIR Systems sales rep Bryan Block jokingly told VICE, “I'd tell Mr. Trump we can build him a wall—a radar wall, of 360-degree radar surveillance.” Today, that invisible wall is looking less and less like a joke.

https://www.engineering.com/BIM/ArticleID/16775/Border-Walls-Get-Teched-Out.aspx?e_src=relart
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