Anti-vaxers kill another child

[cleanhippie]

So North Carolina is reporting their first death (of the year, I presume) from pertussis, or whooping cough. A 2-month-old infant has died of the disease.

Whooping cough is highly contagious and spread usually by coughing or sneezing in close contact. It can be serious at any age, but it is life-threatening in newborns and infants who are too young to be fully vaccinated, state health officials said. Many infants who get whooping cough are infected by caregivers who may not know they have the disease.

This is a kid who was too young to have yet obtained the full range of vaccines, and was dependent on herd immunity…and someone carrying the disease infected them, and ultimately killed them. It’s remarkable that deaths from pertussis are now so rare that one of them will make the news—but the way we’ve made the disease rare is by preventive vaccinations. Every person who neglects to vaccinate is contributing to a deadly disease renaissance.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/08/20/anti-vaxers-kill-another-child/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

[FedUpWithIt All]

1. The infant could have easily caught the pertussis from a vaccinated child.

In early 2010, a spike in cases appeared at Kaiser Permanente in San Rafael, and it was soon determined to be an outbreak of whooping cough -- the largest seen in California in more than 50 years.

Witt had expected to see the illnesses center around unvaccinated kids, knowing they are more vulnerable to the disease.

"We started dissecting the data. What was very surprising was the majority of cases were in fully vaccinated children. That's what started catching our attention," said Witt.

To figure out just how well the vaccine was working, Witt and his colleagues collected information on every patient who had tested positive for pertussis between March and October, 2010.

Of the 132 patients under age 18, 81 percent were up to date on recommended whooping cough shots and eight percent had never been vaccinated. The other 11 percent had received at least one shot, but not the complete series.

The rate of cases for each age, two through 18 years old, peaked among kids in their pre-teens.

Among fully immunized kids, there were about 36 cases for every 10,000 children two to seven years old, compared to 245 out of every 10,000 kids aged eight to 12.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-whoopingcough-idUSBRE8320TM20120403

[cleanhippie]

4. "The longer you went from your last vaccine, the greater your risk of disease,"

And the previously vaccinated kids in your article were several years past their last vaccination.

Newborns and infants are most at risk of catching whooping cough because they have not yet been immunized.

The CDC has expanded recommendations for adults and pregnant women, encouraging them to get a booster shot to "cocoon" babies by preventing everyone around the infants from catching the bacterium and passing it on.

I will admit that while correlation does not equal causation, there is a strong positive correlation between the emergence of nearly eradicated childhood diseases and the lack of proper vaccinations, most notably by those who subscribe to the well-debunked notion that vaccines cause things like autism.

[Lionessa]

6. You sound as hysterical about this as the anti-vaxer do about autism and vaxes.

[cleanhippie]

7. Ahh, the old ad hominem. You stay classy.

Did you take this post personally or what?


You have a really, really, nice day.

[Lionessa]

18. You're the one attempting to construct a strawman no matter how many

reasonably presented and sourced data is presented to you in the posts herein.

Perhaps you should learn some class.

[cleanhippie]

20. Why do you feel the need to attack me personally?

If you see my argument as a strawman, then say so and explain why, then we can continue. But attacking me personally does nothing but lower the discourse. I have not attacked you personally, and an apology would be in order.

[Lionessa]

29. I have, as have others and yet you seem stuck in the same mud re: this article.

[cleanhippie]

35. You apologized for attacking me personally?

Maybe I missed it, can you show me where?

[LanternWaste]

23. I imagine we'll rationalize the melodrama that validates our own position

"the old ad hominem. You stay classy..."

Much like calling the parents 'killers'. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, but I imagine we'll rationalize the melodrama that validates our own position while minimizing that same melodrama when others use it. Or, as grandad used to say, "we often hold others to a higher standard than we hold ourselves... more's the pity"

[cleanhippie]

25. Meh. And t risk of sounding childish...

She started it.

[2pooped2pop]

27. no, I think you did

with you OP title.

[2pooped2pop]

26. +1000 n/t

[HiPointDem]

56. the person accusing others of being murderers is telling others to stay classy?

[11 Bravo]

33. Hysterical? Really? Holy shit, you need to seek a less stressful message board!

[dionysus]

38. how the fuck could you construe that post as "hysterical"? projecting again?

[FedUpWithIt All]

21. All kids have several years between the vaccine and the booster.

Kids are unable to receive the booster before age 13. As of now, there is no safe booster for children under that age. So the claims in your thread title that people who did not vaccinate their children led to the death of this infant is not exactly known or factual. It could have easily been from children who's parents fully complied with vaccine scheduling.

[HiPointDem]

55. What didn't you understand? "majority of cases were in fully vaccinated children"

if the majority of cases are in fully vaccinated children, that means odds are the baby caught it from a vaccinated kid.

Vaxers are killing babies!!

[Lionessa]

2. It says nothing about it being anti-vax, but that the child was too young for full vax.

WTF do they lie in the article's title?

As for the adult caregiver whom they suggest may have transmitted it, we don't know if they are citizens who had access, or perhaps immigrants, or their age, wherein very few vaxes work for a lifetime and boosters for anything more than tetanus have never been offered to me, don't know about others, and even if it were offered, who on a daycare salary can afford extra medical costs.


This is not an anti-vaxer story.

[cleanhippie]

3. Here, I will repost the last paragraph for you.

This is a kid who was too young to have yet obtained the full range of vaccines, and was dependent on herd immunity…and someone carrying the disease infected them, and ultimately killed them. It’s remarkable that deaths from pertussis are now so rare that one of them will make the news—but the way we’ve made the disease rare is by preventive vaccinations. Every person who neglects to vaccinate is contributing to a deadly disease renaissance.

[Lionessa]

5. Please point to where in that paragraph, it points to anti-vaxers causing this child's illness?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

11. I'm pro-vaxer and I'm only guessing what the OP infers but

it seems the OP is saying somone else did not get vaccinated and was carrying pertussis based on my reading of --

This is a kid who was ... dependent on herd immunity.

This is just my surmising and I welcome the OP to correct me if need be.

[cleanhippie]

12. I think you have the crux of what PZ is saying.

He may be stretching a bit to name anti-vaxxers as THE cause of this childs death, but the whole anti-vax movement, to which Lionessa subscribes (if memory serves, she can feel free to correct me if I am wrong) IS the leading cause of the reemergence of nearly eradicated childhood diseases.

[Lionessa]

17. Yes, however, most folks are never given boosters, day care workers would be hard pressed

to afford extra medical costs of vaccines (that aren't mentioned by one's physicians, and have you ever had them suggest boosting your pertussis vax?), and lastly many daycare workers are immigrants and may not have ever had access to vaxes.

So it isn't an "anti-vax" mindset that caused this, it is more likely poverty &/or immigrant status (of daycare workers) and/or a lack of the medical community to keep adults and teens up on their boosters.

[mzmolly]

39. Exactly.

eom

[Sgent]

51. My children

will not be in a daycare / school that doesn't require vaccinations of all children and boosters for adults -- especially before 6 mos of age.

[Lionessa]

60. Mine never went to daycare, and public schools do not generally require

teachers to have boosters, nor the cook staff, nor the admin staff, nor the volunteer parents, ... so good luck with that one.

[mzmolly]

44. We don't even know if the adult in question, was made aware of the

newer booster available.

[obamanut2012]

8. And we have outbreaks of whooping cough and other childhood diseases

Popping up. Diseases which used to kill or disable so many children.

Herd immunity only works if the huge majority of the herd are vaxxed.

Anti vaxxers make me so very angry.

[cleanhippie]

9. "Anti vaxxers make me so very angry" Agreed, and they put us all at risk. Its really selfish, IMO.

[FedUpWithIt All]

22. Children on a regular vaccination schedule were more commonly affected

by pertussis in a recent outbreak. These were kids who hadn't yet reached the booster age of 13. The vaccine wore off before the boosters.

In early 2010, a spike in cases appeared at Kaiser Permanente in San Rafael, and it was soon determined to be an outbreak of whooping cough -- the largest seen in California in more than 50 years.

Witt had expected to see the illnesses center around unvaccinated kids, knowing they are more vulnerable to the disease.

"We started dissecting the data. What was very surprising was the majority of cases were in fully vaccinated children. That's what started catching our attention," said Witt.

To figure out just how well the vaccine was working, Witt and his colleagues collected information on every patient who had tested positive for pertussis between March and October, 2010.

Of the 132 patients under age 18, 81 percent were up to date on recommended whooping cough shots and eight percent had never been vaccinated. The other 11 percent had received at least one shot, but not the complete series.

The rate of cases for each age, two through 18 years old, peaked among kids in their pre-teens.

Among fully immunized kids, there were about 36 cases for every 10,000 children two to seven years old, compared to 245 out of every 10,000 kids aged eight to 12.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-whoopingcough-idUSBRE8320TM20120403

[Gormy Cuss]

41. Similar results in an Aussie study of the outbreaks there.

The difference seemed linked to the acellular pertussis vaccine losing effectiveness much more quickly than the wholecell vaccine.

And this from a CDC director:

In a media phone call that day, Dr. Anne Schuchat, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, went over the reason for the 20-year-old switch that may have fueled these rising rates of disease. She said:

Wholecell pertussis vaccines are widely used in many parts of the world. But in the U.S., we have not been using them since 1997… The wholecell pertussis vaccines had a fairly high rate of minor and short-term side effects like fever and pain and swelling at the injection site. Those were fairly common reactions. And the acellular pertussis vaccines have a lower rate of the fever and transient side effects. There were also rare, but serious neurologic adverse reactions, including chronic neurologic problems that occurred among children that recently received wholecell vaccines. Studies have not been consistent about whether the vaccine actually caused those chronic neurologic problems. Yet there was substantial public concern about them and not just in the U.S., but in other countries. That led to a concerted effort to develop a vaccine with an improved safety profile.

Schuchat added:

In young children, we think that within a couple of years of vaccination the Dtap series is 95 percent protection. Five years later after the series, we think it wanes to 70 percent. That going down from 95 percent effectiveness to 70 percent may be why we see this increase in the older children or young teens.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/08/pertussis-vax-effectiveness/

[mzmolly]

45. This means that in order to have a fully vaccinated population,

we need boosters every 8-10 years, though adulthood. If not, herd immunity claims are mythical unless children are only exposed to other children.

[laundry_queen]

10. Clearly you don't understand the issue with pertussis recently.

The theory is that it's not the kids who aren't vaccinated - it's the adults. I hope you are also up to date on your vaccines. Also, even if everyone - 100% of people - was all vaccinated and up to date there is a certain percentage that is a failure rate - estimates are from 5% to 20%. You cannot say for certain it was the 'anti-vaxxers' that did this...it may have happened anyway. It's a sad fact of life that some infants get sick and die. A friend of mine lost her 5 month old to the FLU. Good luck getting 100% compliance with the flu vaccine (which is only estimated to be 65-70% effective anyway).

[cleanhippie]

13. I agree, somewhat.

PZ may be stretching a bit to name anti-vaxxers as THE cause of this child's death, but the whole anti-vax movement IS the leading cause of the reemergence of nearly eradicated childhood diseases. Perhaps he means to say that had we not had this nonsensical anti-vax movement and the reemergence of pertussis in the first place...

[laundry_queen]

14. I'm not sure it's this huge movement.

Even when I was little there were kids in our school that weren't vaxxed (yes, religious nuts). I looked at percentages here in Canada and the overall percent of kids vaccinated has not changed much in 30 years. There is something else that is causing this, IMO. It could be that the immunity wears off much more quickly than we previously thought and more boosters are needed (and people/kids aren't getting them). It could be that the illnesses are finding biological 'go arounds' to vaccines ie: the structure of the virus/bacteria is changing much like it would with anti-biotic resistance. I personally think overpopulation and travel may play a role as well.

Also, as a teen I had what I now believe was a case of pertussis. I had a horrendous cough for the entire school year, where I did actually make a 'whoop' sound when I inhaled (when the illness was at its worst). I missed tons of school, and was on anti-biotics constantly (they didn't help much). I developed asthma soon after, whereas I had never had any breathing issues before (pertussis can trigger asthma). Not one doctor tested me for pertussis. The general consensus was 'you're vaccinated you don't need to worry about it'. I was even tested for TB, LOL, but not pertussis. How many of those kinds of outbreaks used to occur in the past where doctors refused to believe it could've been pertussis and thus it was never recorded as such? I think doctors are MUCH more aware now and thus the outbreaks are being recorded at a greater frequency simply from an awareness that these diseases DO still exist.

[cleanhippie]

15. It was enough to bring about the reemrgence of nearly eradicated childhood diseases.

Yes, there will always be those that are unable to get a vaccine (for health reasons) and those people are protected by herd-immunity. But the addition of otherwise healthy children not getting vaccines (for a wide range of personal reasons, from religious beliefs to anti-vaxxers) have decimated herd-immunity. THEY are the cause. Add to that the adults that do not keep their vaccinations current, and viola! You have the reemergence of nearly eradicated childhood diseases.

[laundry_queen]

16. Well, I'll have to disagree that's the only cause.

Since statistically rates haven't changed much where I am. And again, there was only the appearance of near-eradication in some instances, if you read my post.

[cleanhippie]

19. I can concede that.

[mzmolly]

47. There is simply no credible data to support your assertion.

The fact of the matter is, the vaccine in question isn't as effective as once thought.

Also, CDC data suggests that vaccine compliance (in children) is at an all time high in the US. In fact, North Carolina has a higher than average, rate of compliance for the Dtap vaccine in children 19-35 months.

The 2009 National Immunization Survey (NIS) results show North Carolina children are among the best-protected in the nation against vaccine-preventable diseases. ... The rate gives North Carolina a fourth-place rank among states for 2009.

http://www.immunize.nc.gov/data/immunizationrates.htm#babies

You can't irradiate a disease by focusing on a small portion of the population, and blaming the group with the highest rate of vaccine compliance, for any outbreaks of disease. It's ridiculous.

[mzmolly]

32. When did you have your Tdap

jab?

[cleanhippie]

34. Two years ago. We have a 3year old and my spouse is a public school teacher.

Doing our part to protect the herd, and each other.

[mzmolly]

36. Tdap or tetanus?

Regardless. you're in the minority. According to CDC statistics, about 90 percent of adults in the US, are "anti-vaccine" as they are not current on their vaccines.

[cleanhippie]

37. Tdap.

And while yes, many adults lack their up to date imms, it's not because they are "anti-vax", that category is for those that are against vaccines because of a misperception about vaccines based on non factual evidence and hysteria promoted by self serving doctors and celebrities. You know who I'm referring to.

[mzmolly]

43. Are you saying that only those with a particular philosophy,

can contract and spread illness? I consider that assertion hysterical and non-factual "evidence" promoted by celebrities and self serving doctors.

[cleanhippie]

49. No, I'm not saying that at all.

Kindly reread my words, thy are quite clear.

[mzmolly]

50. I'm not the only person

confused by your assertions, here. Re-reading what you posted, will not make your case any more clear.

[NickB79]

40. Too many adults think vaccines are only for children

While many vaccines confer lifelong immunity, there are several (such as the TDAP) that need to be re-administered on a regular basis.

I didn't give it any thought until two friends of mine came down with pertussis this year alone. One required hospitalization for an entire week! My wife received her TDAP at the hospital 2 years ago when our daughter was born; I went in and got mine in June.

[mzmolly]

46. Indeed.

And too many vaccines are thought to offer protection for X years, without the proper data to back up these assertions.

[4th law of robotics]

24. Rejecting science in favor of superstition must have one heck of an evolutionary advantage

given how often they seem to get themselves killed doing things like this (unfortunately in this case the kid suffered rather than the parent).

It seems like without some counterbalancing advantages this sort of idiocy would have been selected against long ago.

Maybe it leads to a higher breeding rate?

[ecstatic]

28. This could all be resolved with a little transparency

on the government's part. The problem is, doctors and researchers refuse to admit that YES, in some cases, a child might die from a vaccine. And YES, in some cases, a certain segment of children might develop autism as a result of certain vaccines (from what I've read, it's children with pre-existing conditions, such as mitochondrial defects?).

Wouldn't it be so much better to admit those things, and then allow testing for the pre-existing conditions to put parents' minds at ease? 95% of the population wouldn't care and would continue as usual. The 5% who are worried, could get the pre-testing done and if their children might be harmed by the vaccine, they could choose to abstain or make other arrangements.

[4th law of robotics]

30. This strikes me as similar to the arguments against seatbelts

yes in some cases they will get stuck after you flew off a bridge in to a lake and will contribute to your death.

I'm sure it's happened.

On the other hand . . . .

[jeff47]

48. So we could resolve this by lying?

The problem is, doctors and researchers refuse to admit that YES, in some cases, a child might die from a vaccine.

False. The adverse reaction rate is published. It's also a requirement for FDA approval. And at least in the only sample I have (our daughter) they explicitly tell us what to look for in an adverse reaction and a normal reaction. And then they hand us a sheet reiterating what the vaccine does, what reaction to expect and what to watch for an adverse reaction.

Now, it's quite possible you're talking about doctors who aren't good at being doctors. But the problem isn't the vaccines.

And YES, in some cases, a certain segment of children might develop autism as a result of certain vaccines

So we should just outright lie now? There are exactly 0 known cases of vaccine-induced autism. If you want to prove vaccines cause autism, there's a Nobel prize waiting for your successful research.

from what I've read, it's children with pre-existing conditions, such as mitochondrial defects?

I don't recommend reading anti-vax sites for scientific information. Because they don't have any. You'll note they've moved on to "mitochondrial defects" now that Mercury as the cause is quite impossible.

Wouldn't it be so much better to admit those things, and then allow testing for the pre-existing conditions to put parents' minds at ease?

No, because you are "admitting" something that is not true.

Oh, and before you ask, the reason the number of autism diagnoses is skyrocketing is the number of conditions that are now labeled autism. We're up a child who's "shy" is autistic. Couple that with increased awareness and suddenly there's tons of autistic kids.

[Egalitarian Thug]

52. This kind of reasonable thought is unacceptable. First, it removes an issue as a candidate for

dehumanizing minority segments of the population. And, it might cost some company somewhere some profits.

Where's the upside to that?

Besides, the herd could use some serious culling.

[Sgent]

53. Anna Polling

Two things:

1) There is no evidence that vaccines have anything to do with autism. Anna Polling had a very rare Mitochondrial disorder that affects 1 in millions.

2) Autism is by definition idiopathic (no known medical reason), so by definition Anna didn't have autism (although very similar symptoms).

3) Unfortunately, short of living in a bubble, her condition was an inevitability. An immune reaction would have eventually caused her problems.

This is not to say vaccines are universally safe -- their not, and the government acknowledges that, but that specific case cannot be applied to the "vaccines cause autism" cause.

The reason Anna was compensated by the vaccine court was that the vaccine court operates much like workers comp. If a reaction occurs, you get compensated. The standard civil burden of proof does not apply.

[mzmolly]

57. I think you mean Hannah Poling?

I will let her father, a neurologist speak to your assertions above.

[mzmolly]

31. All those unvaccinated adults are a problem,

indeed. It's a shame pharma and medical professionals, have spent time focusing on school aged kids, vs. the public at large.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

42. Would it be unreasonable to suggest

Lack of vaccination could come from sources other than anti-vaxers in a local population?

Seriously. What if the child came in contact with an immigrant that could have been carrying? I'm no immigration law expert but isn't it reasonable that an adult coming from a country where pertussis vaccines aren't as common could be just as much a suspect than anti-vaxxers? Maybe it was a US citizen returning from such a country. I'm sure a thousand "innocent" explanations are possible and until the facts are known the OP title seems a little heavy-handed in the conclusion jumping department.

[HiPointDem]

54. The majority of those getting sick are up-to-date with their immunizations, which kind of goes

against your "hypothesis".

New research confirms the whooping cough vaccine is failing at a higher rate than expected, and scientists are considering adding a seventh dose to the national immunization schedule published by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Two recent studies have found the majority of people getting sick are up to date with their immunizations.

Whooping cough, also known as pertussis, is a cyclical disease that has spiked before. In 2004, Wisconsin reported more than 5,600 cases, according to the state.

In 2010, whooping cough cases reached epidemic proportions in California... An investigation by the nonprofit journalism group Investigative Newsource and public television station KPBS, both of San Diego, raised serious questions about the effectiveness of the vaccine, given that a majority of the people diagnosed with the illness across California had been fully immunized.

Last year in Wisconsin, the state Department of Health found that 70 percent of persons 18 or younger “were up to date for age for pertussis immunizations at illness onset.” So far in 2012, the state said, 56 percent of 162 cases of pertussis involving children age 1 or younger, the most vulnerable group, were up to date on their immunizations.

Dr. Anne Schuchat, the director for the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases at the CDC, stated during a recent teleconference that while there are large numbers of unvaccinated people in some parts of the country, “we don’t think those exemptors are driving this current wave.”

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/viewart/20120820/GPG0101/308200066/Whooping-cough-rise-despite-immunizations

[yawnmaster]

58. Not nearly enough information to make the statement "anti-vaxers" killed...

another child.

hyperbole

[HiPointDem]

59. In 2009, 94% of the applicable age groups had DPT3+ and 84% had DPT4+.

This is much higher coverage than in e.g. 1992 (83%/59%), yet cases were much higher in 2009 than in 1992: 16,858 v. 4,083.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/G/coverage.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/G/cases&deaths.pdf


Clearly you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

And neither does anyone who claims 'anti-vaxxers' killed that child.


The most likely source of transmission in infants is always the immediate family.