Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the Fairfax accusation comes from repressed memories?

[dansolo]

I was under the impression that repressed memories are typically a result of childhood trauma. She has mentioned the abuse that she suffered as a child. Is there a possibilty that aspects of a consentual sexual encounter later in life were linked in her mind with an abusive encounter she suffered as a child? This could explain why both of them have different recollections of what happenned.

[Beakybird]

1. I considered this as well.

[brush]

2. Seems like working with assault victims for years would...

trigger her own memory.

She only remembered after seeing his campaign photo in 2017. And she was a grown woman when the incident with Fairfax happened.

Just saying.

[obamanut2012]

3. Whoa, I didn't hear that

If so, that very much changes how I feel about this.

[get the red out]

7. Me neither!!!

This really changes my thoughts on the situation too! This is very different IMO than the one with Dr. Blasey Ford and Kavanaugh. What she went through was emblazoned in her mind.

[LisaL]

15. It's in her statement.

She says she suppressed the memory of the supposed assault. Then she says when she saw his photo in 2017 the memories were "triggered."
"After the assault, I suffered from both deep humiliation and shame. I did not speak about it for years, and I (like most survivors) suppressed those memories and emotions as a necessary means to continue my studies, and to pursue my goal of building a successful career as an academic."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/06/us/politics/vanessa-tyson-statement.html

[forthemiddle]

24. Supressed isn't the same as repressed

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-suppression-and-repression

Supressed means she just made herself not think, or speak about it because it was uncomfortable Repressed is the traumatic experience you don’t remember.

[LisaL]

25. Even your link says it's "largely the same thing."

Read your own link. And quora isn't exactly the main stream source as far as I can tell. Furthermore she also refers to the memories as "buried."

[forthemiddle]

31. How about this link

https://www.instituteofclinicalhypnosis.com/suppression-repression-defense-mechanisms/

Suppression is a conscious decision not to think about a memory, while repression is an unconscious decision to not remember an incident. Although they may be incorrectly used interchangeably, in psychology there is a huge difference.

I supress my anger all the time, I don’t repress it. When Dr Tyson drafted her statement I’m sure the lawyers knew the difference.

I am not saying I believe her or not, I think it will always be a he said/ she said situation with no winners. I am just pointing out that her statement in no way says she just all of a sudden remembered the incident last year. I read it to say, she supressed those memories as to get on with her life. She came forward last year when she realized the man she believed assaulted her was about to become the 2nd most powerful person in the State.

Dr Ford also didn’t come forward, not publicly anyway, until she realized that Kavanaugh was about to become a Supreme Court Justice.

[obamanut2012]

4. Many experts say repressed memories aren't even legit

And, there have been more than a few cases where innocent people went to prison because of repressed memories, especially for rape and "Satanic Panic" stuff. If the Fairfax accusation is based on "repressed memories," then I lean toward believing his version of events, sorry.

"The existence of repressed memories is an extremely controversial topic in psychology; although some studies have concluded that it can occur in a varying but generally small percentage of victims of trauma, many other studies dispute its existence entirely.[3] Some psychologists support the theory of repressed memories and claim that repressed memories can be recovered through therapy, but most psychologists argue that this is in fact rather a process through which false memories are created by blending actual memories and outside influences.[3] One study concluded that repressed memories were a cultural symptom for want of written proof of their existence before the nineteenth century, but its results were disputed by some psychologists, and a work discussing a repressed memory from 1786 was eventually acknowledged, though the others stand by their hypothesis.

According to the American Psychological Association, it is not possible to distinguish repressed memories from false ones without corroborating evidence. The term repressed memory is sometimes compared to the term dissociative amnesia, which is defined in the DSM-V as an "inability to recall autobiographical information. This amnesia may be localized (i.e., an event or period of time), selective (i.e., a specific aspect of an event), or generalized (i.e., identity and life history)."

WIKIPEDIA

[DavidDvorkin]

5. Yes, very much so

"Repressed memories" have little to no credibility.

[dsc]

6. If that is true then it would make me more likely to doubt her

repressed memories have a history of being less than pristine.

[dsc]

11. that isn't the same thing

repressed memories involve a therapist and all of that.

[dsc]

14. the problems with the repressed memories arose when

therapists would hypnotize patients and then the patients would remember being abused by Satan etc.

[LisaL]

17. That's not in a definition of what repressed memory is.

Repressed memory is a memory that is blocked, presumably due to trauma. Suppressed memory seems to be a similar thing to a repressed memory, only in suppressed memory person is consciously suppressing it, while in repressed memory it's unconscious.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Precisely

[dsc]

21. It makes it more likely to be accurate

than if she was under hypnosis or a therapist led her to the memory.

[LisaL]

22. We have an adult woman claiming she suppressed the memory for many years

and it was then triggered by a photo.
Does that make it accurate? I personally have grave doubts.
But democrats think that an accused should have his career and life ruined, I guess, over such accusations.

[dsc]

29. more likely to be accurate doesn't mean accurate

I am more likely to die from being hit by lightening, than I am to win the power ball that doesn't mean I am likely to be hit by lightening.

[LisaL]

30. That I agree with.

[obamanut2012]

32. Not accoprding to experts

The existence of repressed memories is an extremely controversial topic in psychology; although some studies have concluded that it can occur in a varying but generally small percentage of victims of trauma, many other studies dispute its existence entirely.[3] Some psychologists support the theory of repressed memories and claim that repressed memories can be recovered through therapy, but most psychologists argue that this is in fact rather a process through which false memories are created by blending actual memories and outside influences.[3] One study concluded that repressed memories were a cultural symptom for want of written proof of their existence before the nineteenth century, but its results were disputed by some psychologists, and a work discussing a repressed memory from 1786 was eventually acknowledged, though the others stand by their hypothesis.[4][5]

According to the American Psychological Association, it is not possible to distinguish repressed memories from false ones without corroborating evidence.[2] The term repressed memory is sometimes compared to the term dissociative amnesia, which is defined in the DSM-V as an "inability to recall autobiographical information. This amnesia may be localized (i.e., an event or period of time), selective (i.e., a specific aspect of an event), or generalized (i.e., identity and life history)."

[LisaL]

28. As far as I can tell repressed memories usually apply to

people who think they were abused as children. This woman was an adult when an encounter took place. She calls her memories "suppressed" and "buried." She reportedly didn't tell anybody about the alleged assault for many years and claims the memory of the supposed assault was triggered when she saw his photo in 2017. Does that mean her memories are accurate? I certainly have my doubts.

[Hortensis]

8. I am bothered by all serious accusations that

cannot be even somewhat substantiated either directly or indirectly. Such as by other people reporting they were told about an incident long ago, or verified by knowing things that should not have been known if it weren't true.

As for the the issues of would anyone just lie viciously for unimaginable reasons, or would anyone sincerely remember something that never happened? Yes, of course. Both happen all the time. People are weird. Our brains are also weird and, we're learning, are frequently shockingly undependable. We often did not see what we are sure we did.

So in these denied political accusations, lacking some indications to be able to at least lean toward probably true or probably not true, perhaps we need to fall back on a principled stand of innocent until and if that changes.

[luvtheGWN]

20. "We often did not see what we are sure we did."

Yes, just ask any prosecutor about witnesses and how their stories don't often mesh.

I do have a problem with "repressed memory" and this is why: When I was about 3 years old, I distinctly recall falling down the stairs. I do not remember what happened next. However, my 2 sisters, who were there and watched me fall, told me many years later that I screamed in pain, my mother rushed me to the family doctor and he diagnosed a dislocated shoulder, and apparently "relocated" it. This is something that I've been told is extremely painful.

Ever after, until I was an adult, I was deathly afraid of Dr. Smith. He made house calls and whenever he came to the house, I would run to the bathroom and hide in the shower stall until he left. I was afraid to go to church with my parents because he and his wife sat 3 rows behind.

All this is to say that one's brain sometimes has a way of blocking a memory that is just too painful to bear. And sometimes that memory can be replaced by something which is far easier to bear.

[Hortensis]

23. Huh! That's a very interesting story, Luv. Poor little thing,

and poor Dr. Smith.

(You're reminding me also that, like you, many of the children being traumatized by being kidnapped and mistreated by our government are far too young to understand what's happening.)

[uponit7771]

34. +1, #metoo doesn't mean guilt by accusation. #NoFranken2.0!!!

[Perseus]

12. Sounds like the anonymous Al Franken accusers

The anonymous Al Franken accusers could have been four Russian male trolls for all we know...How come they didn't come out.

I have also been asking myself...Where is Kirsten Gillibrand??? Has she said anything about this?

[cubbies01]

16. Tough situation

She deserves to be heard, but I too wonder about her passion and line of work in this arena clouding her memory of the event. The story is, frankly, an odd one. And not wanting to bring it up until she sees him on TV as a new political star is interesting as well.

More time though is needed to vet the truth, if it can ever be known.

If Fairfax truly somehow physically forced her into that act, then one thing you could be assured of is she was not the only one he pulled this on and many more stories will come out. Another intriguing thing is she said she never ever contacted him again yet he says she did so that will be interesting if he can prove she did. It is a mess.

[LisaL]

18. Yes, it's a tough situation to be accused many years later without corroborating evidence

but democrats apparently think any such accusation should result in person being run out of office. She believes her story, but does that mean it actually happened, especially considering she admits she supposedly suppressed the memory for many years and it was triggered many years later because she saw his photo?

[DBoon]

26. I remember the McMartin child abuse case

fantastic stories of satanic abuse of children , which later turned out to be unsupported.

[d_r]

27. I was remind of this also

If you weren't around in the 80s and 90s - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial

[obamanut2012]

33. Adults have accused their parents of raping them as childrren

via false memories "unrepressed" by a quack therapist.

[LAS14]

35. Even without the repressed/suppressed memory angle, memory is a problem.

I recommend the excellent short post below. In the absence of other information (like Kavanaugh's petty lies), and the lapse of time, one has to consider the possibility that one or both people are mis-remembering. I find the central action in the accuser's statement to be an especially good candidate for memory morphing, both in physical terms and in moral ambiguity terms (both could have felt guilty).

This is one good reason for statutes of limitations in criminal cases. I think we should encourage a norm of some sort of statute of limitations in these sorts of cases too.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211784894

[Bradical79]

36. Seems like an inappropriate topic for forum discussion

I think using amatuer armchair psychology to cast doubts on a woman's claim of sexual assault is a bad idea. It's a topic even the pros don't have consensus on.

[Demit]

37. I'm not sure that expressing doubt is the same thing as casting doubt.

One is an honest expression and the other is a deliberate ploy.

And aren't people here discussing what the pros say, and acknowledging that there is no professional consensus?

[Bradshaw3]

40. That, and there's this

Would any one of the posters putting this out there being doing so if the woman was accusing a white republican?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

38. Repressed, or recovered?

[Autumn]

39. I thought she said suppressed. A lot of people suppress bad memories.

Suppressed to me means to not allow yourself to feel or be affected by a bad memory or event. You still remember the memory or event it you just don't dwell on it. I thought repressed was when a mind keeps a memory or event suppressed and unconscious in one's mind to better deal with it .