Man, Morning Joe is going in on AOC this morning over the Amazon pullout.

[Yavin4]

The entire panel is calling her out. Their commentary is pathetic and woefully ignorant.

--On Edit--
Also, they didn't mention how Amazon did not pay a cent in taxes.

[Renew Deal]

1. The entire situation deserves scrutiny

[UniteFightBack]

2. The question to be debated is WHO is the ignorant one. nt

[whathehell]

12. MSNBC is not what you would call "Union Friendly"

and problems with NY Labor is one of the things that killed this deal.

* You will rarely, if EVER hear any of their lineup, however progressive, mention labor unions and THAT is no accident.

[SKKY]

3. They're going at her, when she had nothing to do with Amazon...

...pulling out. Their show is starting to piss me off.

[brooklynite]

6. She had nothing to do with the pullout, but she joined in with the anti-Amazon messaging.

[SKKY]

10. Agreed. But if someone was just listening passively...

...they might be forgiven if they get the sense she single-handedly led the push. They need a scapegoat, and none of the people who really killed the deal are national names, so they need someone the audience knows who they can stick this to. I get why they do it, and they're certainly not unique in this. I just find it very, very disingenuous.

[90-percent]

42. I was half listening

and my take is they blamed her for losing 25,000 desperately needed jobs, due to her naivety and inexperience and inept political manuvering. I am not well informed on amazon's efforts to set up shop in nyc? My impression of amazon is that they are predatory, overwork their employees, and are as un-generous to their employees as Walmart. Maximize executive compensation by extracting money from the workers to reward the morbidly wealthy execs.

And the current corporate model is to escape all taxes and then say; "So what, our employees pay taxes and we sure as hell have a lot of them"!

Gotta love our corporate "slave wage job creators”!

-90% Jimmy

[Baitball Blogger]

45. I was listening less than 90 percent, until the end.

Yes, it sound like she was solely responsible for the Amazon pullout. They were very sloppy in their commentary.

[whathehell]

14. Yes, and I fully understand why..

Like most progressives, she is Pro-union and Anti Sweatshop McJobs.

[NewJeffCT]

16. Business decisions that big

don't happen overnight. I doubt AOC joining the call had much effect on a process that was started when Amazon announced their intention to have HQ2 in NYC.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

19. Good.

Solid Dems support unions.

[brooklynite]

4. What's wrong with the analysis?

It feeds into Trump's new narrative of wild-eyed socialists, the policies of which may be popular in safe Blue districts (except that polling showed the Amazon deal was actually popular), but won't play well in the suburban districts and rust-belt States we have to win in 2020.

[UniteFightBack]

8. +1000

[Cuthbert Allgood]

20. Because it ignores the pro-union message of those that oppose Amazon.

You know, things in the Dem platform. Being pro-worker and all. Which Amazon markedly is not.

But, yeah, the elections.

[whathehell]

21. Trump & Company think anything that includes labor Unions, Living

Wages and the like, equal "wild eyed socialism", when in reality, unionized workers comprised about a Third of the American wokforce prior to the Reagan era, when corporate efforts to union bust and drive down the Middle Class got serious.

[melman]

47. "It feeds into Trump's new narrative"

Is basically a way of saying you think he's right without actually saying it.

Why else would you say "the policies of which won't play well" right after "wide eyed socialists"?

[brooklynite]

49. Because my concern in winning an Election in 2020

The voters we have to attract to win back in MI, PA, OH, WI and FL don't see the world the way AOC and "Democratic Socialists" do, and aren't going to be supportive of policies they see as radical. As an example, you won't get the New Green Deal passed by simply saying there's no other choice, you're going to have frame reasonable steps that can be taken.

[comradebillyboy]

53. Absolutly right ++++

[Act_of_Reparation]

58. Must spend a lot of time with voters in MI, PA, OH, WI, and FL...

...to understand them so well.

[brooklynite]

60. Well the Ohio Party Chair is a friend of mine...

...and I've spoke to many of our Midterm candidates from WI, MI, PA and FL...

So, yes, I feel comfortable in my assessment.

[Act_of_Reparation]

61. I'll bet.

Sounds like you really got your finger on the pulse of the common man.

[brooklynite]

62. Let's say I have my finger on the pulse of people whose job it is to win elections

If you're questioning my veracity, feel free to check my FEC records.

As for the common man, letting a Republican get into office because the voters find your platform too radical doesn't help.

[Act_of_Reparation]

63. I'm not questioning your veracity.

I'm questioning your sampling data.

[brooklynite]

64. Point me to evidence that proves otherwise...

...Where did AOC-style progressives win in competitive suburban districts?

[Act_of_Reparation]

66. A populist in the White House is a pretty strong indicator of populist fervor in key regions.

Wouldn't you agree?

[manor321]

5. Those assholes LOVE corporate welfare!

[Celerity]

9. +1

[fleur-de-lisa]

33. +2

[Celerity]

7. She is wonderful

Link to tweet

[world wide wally]

22. So, if the state of NY gave Amazon a $300 M tax break, I guess they would have had to cut

Amazon a check.

Who cares about winning the lottery?

[WeekiWater]

24. Amazon paid a considerable amount toward schools last year, in taxes.

This isn't the first time I have seen AOC not understand what is being discussed. Amazon gets enormous breaks, and appears to have paid zero in corporate taxes, that does not mean they paid no taxes. AOC has a very poor understanding of taxes.

[Apollyonus]

26. +1000 very well put nt

[Celerity]

30. Amazon is an international master at tax avoidance and evasion

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/04/09/trump-is-right-amazon-is-a-master-of-tax-avoidance/33653439/

Amazon now pays even LESS tax while struggling High Street firms pay up to 20 times more

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/amazon-now-pay-even-less-13023482


Amazon paid just £15m in tax on European revenues of £19.5bn

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/10/amazon-uk-halves-its-corporation-tax-to-74m-as-sales-soar-to-7bn

AMAZON: HOW THE WORLD'S LARGEST RETAILER KEEPS TAX COLLECTORS AT BAY

https://www.newsweek.com/2016/07/22/amazon-jeff-bezos-taxes-479814.html


How Amazon Built Its Empire On One Tax Loophole

https://thinkprogress.org/how-amazon-built-its-empire-on-one-tax-loophole-49732e358856/


Amazon Just Got Nailed for Allegedly Evading $300 Million in EU Taxes

https://gizmodo.com/amazon-just-got-nailed-for-allegedly-evading-300-milli-1819128919



From Seattle to Luxembourg: how tax schemes shaped Amazon

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/25/from-seattle-to-luxembourg-how-tax-schemes-shaped-amazon

[WeekiWater]

31. I'm not sure how that is pertinent to my point about AOC and her flawed tweet.

She is clearly wrong. She really has a limited understanding of taxation.

[Celerity]

37. Her understanding is just fine, and will continue to be nt

[WeekiWater]

38. If completely wrong is "just fine". I think it looks bad when legislators clearly don't know.....

What they are talking about. It's clear she doesn't understand taxation.

[fleur-de-lisa]

34. +1

[watoos]

11. It has begun,

Democrats are making a big mistake siding with Republicans in attacking AOC. She is a rare talent that can change the right wing narratives, just like Al Franken had. When do we turn on Speaker Pelosi?

[INdemo]

13. They just gave the Republicans and Trump a campaign strategy

covering the Democrats and their weaknesses.
Right after he said Trump has a 10-15% chance of re-election..That is when I changed the channel
Comcast and MJ Producers know how to promote Trump without promoting Trump

[Me.]

54. And Boy Does He Love Saying How Individual 1 Was A Dem For Years

and gave lots of money to Dems. It kills him that Individual 1 is a Con and destroying that party and he tries to deflect from it all the time.

[blaze]

17. Couldn't be about ratings or anything... nt

[wishstar]

18. Joe was all in bashing Dems yesterday morning also-I turned off after less than 5 minutes

[Raster]

23. Yep, that's when I turned joe off...

...they are NOT our friends. They are anti-tRump*, that's about it.

What would be AWESOME, is a Rachael Maddow/Chris Hayes-type morning show with liberals, progressives, Dems, etc. giving their perspective on the day's events. And I am SICK TO FUCKING DEATH of MJ's rethuglican hero worship. Memo to Joe: Ronnie the Raygun* and his scumbag administration were responsible for some of the worst 20th century moments in our nation's history.

[Nanjeanne]

25. Amazon can still build their facility. They just won't get their $3 billion ransom paid.

[Hoyt]

27. I think they are right about AOC being a bit naive on this. But, I'm fine with the jobs going to

other localities because these are well-paid jobs.


Actually 25,000 employees would pay a whole lot of taxes -- income, property, sales, etc., not to mention other economic activity to support them. And the construction and investment would help improve the area.

I can see the concern about the impact Amazon might have on the neighborhood. In fact, I was surprised Amazon selected that area. But, I guess if you want the best employees, NYC is going to attract them. My understanding is these jobs were supposed to average $150K.

[trixie2]

36. I agree with you

I live in a city that is heavily populated with corporations that get tax breaks and it means we get excellent city services and very low taxes. I pay only $900 in property taxes, have complete garbage/recycling services including free containers for garbage, recycling and yard waste. We have water, sewers, gas and many amenities that a large city would enjoy. My sister moved to another city in the same county. She has no garbage pickup whatsoever. She can't even pay for it. All garbage must be hauled to the city dump. No recycling facilities. No sewers, no water, no gas lines, no cable, no wife. She pays $6000 in property taxes. They have no industry. Their public library is a tiny old house. No schools so the kids are bussed to other districts. I don't get it.

[90-percent]

46. 25,000 employees at $150,000 a year

is $3,750,000,000. Three billion Seven hundred fifty million dollars per year. Sorry, I find it incomprehensible a corporate scumbag like Bezo's would so lavishly pay for such a large workforce. What sort of work will these 25,000 employees do that warrants such generous compensation? Would it be 25,000 IT pros with experience that have post graduate programming degrees?

Would they make these employees piss in a cup at their desks because the trip to the bathroom wastes too much production time?

I would think there would be 24,000 hourly $13 an hour employees and maybe the remaining thousand would get those $150K jobs?

I never worked in High Tech silicon valley companies. Worked with a guy in 2014 that moved from Boston to Apple west coast that loved it and he was generously compensated. He was extremely dedicated to the job and would work 24 hours straight if it was necessary. He spent 6 months in China setting up some cnc machines for production.

-90% Jimmy

[Hoyt]

59. It's not a shipping hub, it was to have high level IT people. Here's the source of $150K, to help

you comprehend --

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/13/amazon-will-pay-hq2-employees-150000-dollars-that-goes-further-in-nashville.html

[quickesst]

32. It seems to me....

.... that the anti Amazon people really don't give two shits about what their constituents think, and if you think Ocasio Cortez is not that involved, you can be damn sure she's taking credit for it. Looks like the only demographic that is on the anti Amazon side of things are the Repuglicans. Speaks volumes, especially among the African American (70%) and Latino (81%) communities. Maybe they just don't know what's good for them. Personally, I think Whoopi Goldberg was right.

*
NYS voters 56%
NYC voters 58%
Democrats 56%
Republicans 47%
Others 64%
Union workers 53%
Nonunion workers 57%
White 51%
African-American 70%
Latino 81%
18-34 57%
35-54 60%
55+ 52%




https://www.chicagobusiness.com/opinion/all-kinds-new-york-voters-support-amazon-hq-deal

[Yavin4]

35. These deals don't pan out the way people think that they do

No one knows for sure the kind of jobs Amazon was bringing to NYC. But, for argument's sake, let's say that these 25,000 high paying jobs did materialize. Wouldn't that crowd out other employers from starting a business here knowing that they would have to pay their employees as much as Amazon does in order to attract talent? In the end, it may have been a net negative for NYers,

I would rather that there be 100 smaller Amazons than one big employer.

[quickesst]

40. So....

..... you believe what I said earlier is true. The people just don't know what's good for them.
Do you have insight as to when these 100 small businesses will begin, and how long will it take these businesses collectively to employ 25000 people? While pondering that, there are 25,000 people that could use a job right now, but that opportunity is kaput.

[Yavin4]

43. People aren't given the full facts. Just narratives.

So, may be they don't know the full story. Also, who's to say what these 25,000 jobs will be or what field they will be in. Everyone has these dreams of high-paying tech jobs, but we don't know for sure if that's what they will be.

[quickesst]

48. What we do know for sure...

... Is that they are jobs. Maybe a small percentage of those 25,000 people might aspire to Hi-Tech paying jobs, but I'm pretty sure most of them understand the kind of jobs that Amazon will offer. Warehouse positions are not really considered high-tech paying jobs and don't require a college education or a degree. You still haven't answered my question which I would repeat here.

"Do you have insight as to when these 100 small businesses will begin, and how long will it take these businesses collectively to employ 25000 people? While pondering that, there are 25,000 people that could use a job right now, but that opportunity is kaput.

[Yavin4]

50. NYT: Even Without Amazon, Tech Could Keep Gaining Ground in New York

Long before Amazon announced that New York had won a share of its second-headquarters sweepstakes, tech was a rising force in the local economy. Google, which already has thousands of workers in New York, plans to double its work force in the city and build a $1 billion campus just south of the West Village. Facebook, Apple, Uber and other companies are also expanding their presences, as is a rising generation of homegrown companies.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/02/15/business/economy/nyc-tech-startups-amazon.html

[Cuthbert Allgood]

52. What, specifically, did AOC say that indicates she is taking credit for it.

Like a specific quotation from her.

[quickesst]

55. I think this should satisfy your inquiry

One of the most vocal opponents of Amazon's planned presence in Queens was Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, whose congressional district borders the district that includes Long Island City.

"Anything is possible," she tweeted on Thursday in response to Amazon's decision. "Today was the day a group of dedicated, everyday New Yorkers & their neighbors defeated Amazon's corporate greed, its worker exploitation, and the power of the richest man in the world."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/14/ocasio-cortez-amazon-cancelling-nyc-hq-proves-anything-is-possible.html

If you believe this is not taking some credit for Amazon abandoning New York, then I can't help you. I stand with the 70% African Americans and the 81% of the Latino community who favored the Amazon deal.

[sarcasmo]

39. Corporate shills towing the corporate line. Amazon was getting 11 Billion in tax breaks, when they

pay zero in taxes. AOC is right on the money.

[airmid]

41. They are giving her more power by acting like it's all her. It is unreal

to listen to the nonsense they are spewing. They are just a bunch of rich people worried about their bank accounts

[SharonClark]

44. Joe was on his high horse again with another crazy diatribe

He really is a bully.

[comradebillyboy]

51. I don't think chasing jobs away is a winning strategy for Democrats.

Most people use Amazon and like Amazon. Jeff Bezos didn't personally write the tax code, that's on congress. Chasing away employers will not win any friends outside the most well to do liberal circles. Bad politics, bad imagery.

[QC]

56. Rich people who get paid to defend rich people defending rich people?

Heavens to Betsy!

[NCjack]

57. Big companies like to locate where they can load the costs of fire, police, infrastructure

on the mom and pop businesses and income tax payers. Amazon needs to move on find a sucker who will pay their assessments.

[themaguffin]

65. It pissed me off so much. They don't get it. They think they do, but they understand

the impact and let's be real, the jobs are not going to go to many current residents.

Several other finalist cities made much more sense...