We, Democrats, need to snatch the framing of the word "Socialist" and "socialism" from the grips of

[allgood33]

the RW fascist Trumpiians who are attempting to define progressive and moderate Democrats as some kind of ugly "Socialist."
We need to frame it in terms of FDR New Deal and what grew out of Great Depression like the TVA, national roads and highways and railways etc.

WE should be educating the voters on what we mean by Medicare for all, quality education, the green new deal. We need to let people know about how jobs that once supported working families at all levels are now disappearing to robotic automation and not to black, brown, or yellow immigrants. Give them examples..like bank tellers, telephone operators, receptionists etc. What we are offering in place of these jobs that are never coming back are great jobs with benefits in the rising sectors of healthcare, green jobs in energy and transportation and growing technologies. We need well paid teachers to train out young in jobs for the future. We need our chidren to be trained in multi-languages to be able to deal with China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and not be at the mercy of those dealers like our illiterate President, Trump.

We need to be together in snatching the talking points from the likes of Hannity, Coulter, and Limbaugh. None of them have any ideas for solutions on what to do FOR people. They just have ideas on how to screw people and smear people.

WE CAN DO THIS. AOC, Harris, Warren, Biden and all of us together have better ideas and more empathy for those who have been left out of the Wall Street prosperity. We want prosperity for all and it can be done. YES WE CAN!! AND WE ARE STRONGER TOGETHER!!

We may even need to educate the ignorant populace on the meaning and history of "FASCISM." We don't need to label anyone as fascist but once you educate people about the history of fascism, they can draw their own concludions and they will apply the label as they understand it.

[democratisphere]

1. The RW redumbliCONS used to refer to Democrats as "communists".

The RW redumbliCONS have now upgraded Democrat's status to "socialists". Democrats should now refer to redumbliCONS as "treasonous traitors".

[riverine]

2. The difference is that even the most racist jackboot Nazi GOPer rejects the term "fascist"

while SOME Democrats self label themselves as "socialist".

[rainin]

3. My mom is stuck on AOC "calling herself radical".

I know she said "if doing (x) is radical, then I'm radical", but all my mom heard was she called herself radical.

YES, we need to own these words.

[scarytomcat]

4. We need to proudly fly the flag and not be afraid

all the while pointing out the the rethugs a fascists and working for the rich
They are anti-social and we have the interests of 99% of the people in mind.

[State the Obvious]

5. I agree. Framing the narrative is key to winning.

Giving the Republicans the time and space to use their terminology to direct the discussions is the kiss of death to OUR message. We cannot fall asleep on this one. (And never NEVER use the Republican wording (framing) to make OUR point)

My guess would be that George Lakoff (author and cognitive linguist) would be in agreement on this point as well.

[GulfCoast66]

6. The only problem is not a single thing you mentioned, which we all support, is socialism.

The definition of socialism has not changed: common ownership of the means of production.

Public works projects are not socialism. Nor is a living wage, Universal Healthcare, strong Union Rights, guaranteed minimum housing standards. Or any number of the things we want government to do.

They have many of these things in Europe and they are capitalist nations with stong social democractic policies.

What Liberals should do is stop using a title that does not accurately define who we are.

If you favor the government taking over GM, Amazon, GE etc then you are, indeed a socialist.

Otherwise use the proper term- Social Democrat.

[State the Obvious]

7. This OP is about FRAMING the argument, not actually discussing the argument. nt

[GulfCoast66]

8. I read the OP.

And they want us to frame Social Democracy as Socialism.

Words have meaning and they are two entirely different things.

Rather than trying to get the entire world to change their definition of socialism, wouldn’t it be easier to just call our program what it actually is?

I have read very few post even on DU advocating for socialism.

[riverine]

10. Yes. It would be like right-wingers suddenly adopting the label

'Republican Fascist'.

'Hey, Democrats are trying to make us Fascists look bad!'

[GulfCoast66]

12. Exactly

Words have meaning.

But one correction. Many on the right are, indeed facist at heart. Very few on the left, even those who mistakenly call themselves socialist truly are.

I do not see support from anyone on the left for nationalizing business.

[riverine]

13. Yes, many on the right are fascist at heart but

THEY WON'T ADMIT IT!

[riverine]

15. also check out the DSA web site

https://www.socialists.nyc/our-strategy

New York City Democratic Socialists of America is dedicated to the project of building a socialist society — a society free of all oppression with a democratically-run, ecologically-sustainable economy. Such a society would secure real equality of opportunity for everyone. It would guarantee basic rights to housing, food, healthcare, education, a job, and an income. And it would eliminate all forms of oppression, including oppression based on race, gender, sexuality, and ability. Our goal is a socialist world. Living as we do in New York City, our organization’s particular focus is on how to advance that cause in the five boroughs.

In order to build a better world, NYC-DSA believes that working-class and oppressed people must take political, social, and economic power to make fundamental changes in their interest. A transformation on this scale will require socialist parties and powerful social movements. The goal of NYC-DSA is to move us closer to achieving this transformation. We do this by educating and agitating to build a base for socialism and then organizing that base into social movements and a socialist organization.

[GulfCoast66]

19. The only coherent thing I got out of that mess

Is that they want to build something outside of the Democratic Party.

It sounds like a manifesto from the 60’s. Meaningless.

[State the Obvious]

17. I agree. And your VALID point deserves a thread of its own.

Go for it!

My point is that Dems so often get entangled in "apples and oranges" rhetoric. Framing a point and actually discussing that point are two different things. Both are important! Republicans depend on fragmenting discussions which will enable them to more completely confuse the issue/discussion. Whatever we are discussing with Republicans, we need to consistently be aware of their efforts to "muddy the waters". Dems need to counteract Republican manipulations with ....CLARITY.

[Andy823]

11. Good point

Claiming to be socialists will help the right to smear every Democrat as "commies". Not sure why some who post here seem to be posting things that actually would "hurt" Democrats come 2020.

[ooky]

9. "HOW" do we "educate" this ignorant populace?

I don't have the answer, but they are demonstrating a kind of stupidity that is hard to break through, and its not going away overnight. These people readily believe lies, and many of them know they are being lied to and still applaud the lies as though they thirst for it.

Whatever the answer is to how to reach these people, I'm expecting it to be long term. For now I think that achieving unity on the left is way more important than any plan we might have to try to convert the thinking of any of these people.

[GulfCoast66]

14. How do we educate those on the left as well?

Republicans know we are not truly socialist. We do not want collective ownership of the means of production. They use it as a slur.

It shocks me that so many liberals happily call them selves socialist, when they truly don’t believe in the tenants of socialism.

Social democracy is totally different from socialism and it is not a hard concept to explain. Just point to all the programs Americans favor. And explain how we want to have more of them and make the ones we have stronger. That is how we win.

Not by happily accepting an in-accurate label

[ooky]

21. Good point. I would rather we focus on that than trying to convert

right wingers from their ignorance. That helps increase unification on the left. I hate labels. They distract from things. The things Republicans want to do nobody would vote for, so they traditionally hide their things under under a heap of labels and boogeymen. I think it starts with our candidates. If our candidates can all agree to steer their supporters away from labels and instead focused on the prize that unites us all, getting rid of Trump, that would make the most difference. They all need to campaign on a high level point that no matter who is our general election candidate is, that not voting for that candidate only helps Trump.

[brooklynite]

16. No we don't...all we have to do is stop using "socialist" ourselves.

The self-proclaimed "Democratic Socialists" do damage to passing perfectly reasonable progressive policies.

[State the Obvious]

18. There you go! You have just FRAMED the narrative toward a Democratic viewpoint! nt

[Awsi Dooger]

20. Correct...using the word socialist is a great way to self-inflict toward 2018

Democrats are fine with that word but swing voters are not. The poster early in this thread made the best point, regarding how her mother gets scared when Ocasio-Cortex calls herself radical. As long as we underestimate how effective the scare tactics can be, we minimize our strengths and maximize our weaknesses.

There needs to be an effective counter message when the other side abuses socialist. I saw Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis use it here in Florida last year, and the two Democrats were woefully unprepared. But if we attach it to ourselves then we essentially boost Trump's approval rating all by ourselves. It doesn't matter how low he is if our side is not accepted by swing voters.

[GulfCoast66]

22. Many democrats, myself included are not fine with being call socialist.

Because we are not socialist. I can count on one hand over the past 3 years that I read someone expounding socialist ideas on DU.

Because we are not socialist. We are social democrats which has en entirely different meaning.

No matter what you call yourself unless you are in favor of common ownership of the means of production you are not a socialist.

[brooklynite]

24. I think there were more self-identified Socialists here until JPR set up shop...

[Wounded Bear]

23. Start calling Repubs the "Anti-social" party...