I'm afraid this young woman is a perfect illustration of what we're up against

[Orangeutan]

I've spent the greater part of this evening arguing with a Trump cultist on Twitter, and I might as well have been beating my head against the wall for all the good it did. She thinks Trump is a genius, greater than Washington or Lincoln, a truth-teller (albeit "not a priest&quot , and all media are lying to me. She seems a sweet young woman but a prime candidate for Jonestown.

I brought up unpaid contractors, assaulted women, a two-minute youtube video compilation of Trump clips saying he knows more than anyone about--well, everything. I brought up toilet paper on the shoe and saluting a North Korean spymaster. Nothing fazed her. She ended each of her tweets with an icon of hands praying.

Here is her end of the conversation:

Best President ever, love our President, many, many Americans know this and love him as well. You seem very much in the dark. You’ll see the light soon, I have faith enough for both of us!

(I told her to wise up.)

I am wise to our President, he is a genius. You’re in a dark place, not your fault, your news n party are lying to you! I will pray you come to see the light soon!

(Sent USA Today link about hundred of workers claiming Trump stiffed them.)

Seriously USA Today, liberal rag, I do not believe any liberal rags or Chanel’s all lies. Again I’ll keep you in my prayers, it’s not your fault your party has lied n had you believe their falsehoods. You will see soon.

(Really? Greatest President? Greater than Washington? Lincoln?)
(So hundreds of contractors are lying? Two dozen women are lying?)

Or equal to! So yes he’s up there w the greats! I didn’t vote for a priest I voted for a man that would tell the truth, he’s not perfect, but whether you believe me or not, he is the one saving us. Again you will soon see.

(Please get help. Genius? Toilet paper on the shoe? Saluting the enemy?)

Yes he is a genius. He’s not the bad guy, again you will find out soon. Who the deceivers n killers really are.

I will pray for you. You will see soon.


So that was the exchange. What can one do, in the face of such momumental denial? Nothing Mueller finds is going to make a difference with someone like her. Putin could FedEx her the pee tape and it wouldn't make a difference. Sigh.

[guillaumeb]

1. Welcome to DU.

You are effectively speaking a different language, and have a different reality than the Trump supporter.

And no. you probably cannot convince her of anything.

[allgood33]

41. Did you ever consider she might be a Russian or RW bot?

[guillaumeb]

50. That IS a good point, and no, I did not. eom

[Tumbulu]

66. I know young women like this as well. There are so many of them, too.

And not one is a bot, but they are all brainwashed and use all this talk of prayer, too.

[catrose]

71. That's always my first thought

and it's the kindest motive I can credit them

[olegramps]

80. I salute you. You are more brave than I. I fear contamination from association with diseased pigs.

[UniteFightBack]

2. These are not the types for serious debate. The only thing they are good for is trolling. nt

[calguy]

3. I know exactly what you're talking about.

I have an account on GAB and I troll them often for the fun of it. Occasionally I'll get into an exchange with someone and there is no changing their minds. Many are quite sincere and honest in their beliefs just as we are in ours. We can't change everyone's mind all of the time. What have to do is keep working to make sure there are more of us than there are of them..

[subterranean]

4. She sounds like one of those Q Anon believers.

As you discovered, it is a waste of time to argue with people like that. They are impervious to facts, reason and logic. Sad but true.

[42bambi]

11. Yep. Exactly what I was thinking as well. Poor girl.

[ThinkFem]

52. yes, to an extent...

I work to respect another's beliefs and opinions. In conversation I present mine in as straightforward way as I can. I might not agree with someone, but stereotyping him/her as, "...impervious to facts, reason and logic" is not acceptable behavior and does not help us advance our position.

[Blue_true]

5. You were talking to a rightwing evangelical, didn't you notice.

They will pull their heads out of their asses only to watch the Rapture and look down at us losers as they float up to heaven.

The last 11 words were pure sarcasm.

[rufus dog]

35. She definitely sounds rapture ready

Wouldn't it be great if they were actually on to something.

But more inline with the Twilight Zone episode, How to serve man.

A greater being comes and clears all of them out, take them to hell while the rest of us can make a heaven on earth.

[sdfernando]

60. I do believe that pretty much every one of these

right-wing evangelical, prosperity gospel believing nitwits are going to be so very surprised and so very disappointed when the real rapture occurs and they are the ones left behind.

...please note that I do not believe in this crap....a Catholic in recovery...or if you like, a heathen, a blasphemer, an athiest....whatever label you want to put on it.

[Blue_true]

69. Prosperity preachers are frauds.

I have a brother who is an ordained minister, he would have nothing to do with them, if fact, he doesn't seem to be really into money at all.

Prosperity ministers have the fine cars, jets mansions and lovers hidden on the side, we have seen that over and over. Though my brother is a Christian, I am a very firm deist, because my mind was open enough to see the whole picture about how the Earth and all beyond it operate.

[EndGOPPropaganda]

6. Tell her she's a sucker. That rightwing billionaires are screwing her and laughing at her.

“Rupert Murdoch lies to the suckers and fools in the Republican base so they’ll vote for his tax cuts. He’s laughing at you while he counts his money.”

Fox, Limbaugh, Breitbart, IJR, Daily Caller - they’re all funded by billionaires to lie to you so you’ll vote for billionaire tax cuts.
That $2 TRILLION tax cut was $20,000 that every American family put on a credit card. “That YOU put on a credit card. You and your kids will be paying that back. Sucker. Trump is laughing at the idiots that he’s suckered.”

This stuff works, I ha e experience.

[EndGOPPropaganda]

9. Wait one more thing

She’s an evangelical. There’s an additional angle for evangelicals:

“Jesus would be a Democrat today. He said “That which you do to the least amongst us, so you do unto me.” Republicans voted to cut healthcare for small kids— they are harming little children to pay off the money changers- the Republican billionaires who own that party. If you are a Republican, you are a sinner who has put the moneychangers before Jesus.”

Also
Do you know the Bible says that abortion is a lesser crime than murder, and that Republicans changed the Bible translation so suckers would vote for wealthy donors? Meanwhile with their other hand they take away healthcare from children and the poor. Truly, Republicans cannot be Christians.

[Volaris]

7. Wait for Trump to go to prison. If that won't burst her illusory bubble,

The war they try to start against the legitimate government will likely get her killed.

It's cold, but....

Problem solved.

[mia]

40. The reply

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. Matthew 5:10

For them, their eternal lives depend upon continuing to support Trump.

[bitterross]

8. Faith: firm belief in something for which there is no proof

She has faith enough for all of us. Goodie for her.

Sad part is there is so much real proof to the contrary of her belief.

[Mariana]

10. It appears that love and support for Trump is a tenet of her Christian faith.

Plenty of Christian churches have been preaching that Trump is God's chosen president, and to oppose him in any way is going against God. There really isn't much you can do with people like that. They didn't reason their way into their faith, and you can't reason their way out of it.

[sprinkleeninow]

27. This is exactly correct. Preached from pulpits. Anathema. eom

[VOX]

43. "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party..."

“...and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”
~ Barry Goldwater (R-AZ) said in November 1994, and as quoted in John Dean, “Conservatives Without Conscience (2006).

[dameatball]

51. Good find re: Goldwater. Thanks.

[dlk]

12. Dealing with Smug Religious Zealots is Challenging

Of course, there are a number of scriptures about false phrophets. 2 Peter 2 comes to mind. Zealots aren’t interested in facts so trying to have a conversation with them based on logic & reason goes nowhere. Better to quote a scripture, offer to pray for their enlightenment, & end the conversation.

[nolabear]

13. I don't make statements much. I ask questions.

On seeing the light: “Tell me about seeing the light. What Do you want me to see? What’s he done that’s made it different for you now?”

On 45’s genius: “I’d like to know what kinds of things mean genius to you. How do you know someone is a genius? Is it genius like with math and science and IQ test skills or is it based on what he’s done?”

On lying media: “Do you think it would help if I listened to the media you like and you listened to what I like for a while and we talked about why they’re so different?”

And so forth, without following up with a challenge. I don’t want to argue, but I do want to know and I want them to be curious about what motivates their responses.

I’m pretty sure most of them are based in the limbic system, strong emotional excitatory responses that they then add words they’ve heard to. One never knows, encouraging something more might be a good thing.

[yonder]

68. +1. very good

[aikoaiko]

14. I figure that's about 35% of US adults.

If we are lucky.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. What makes you think a young woman runs that account?

It's clearly set up to waste your time.

[Takket]

16. you may as well try to talk the Pope into becoming an atheist.

a good 1/3 of the country is a completely lost generation. the only thing the rest of us can do is band together, and drag them, kicking and screaming, to prosperity.

[FiveGoodMen]

57. Not just a lost generation

How do you think their kids are being raised?

America is 1/3rd Nazi for the foreseeable future.

[2naSalit]

17. Shouldn't feed the trolls, man!

[smirkymonkey]

18. She's fucking insane.

Literally. Why bother?

[RobinA]

19. You Can't Argue

with them. Ask questions. What has he done that makes him a great President? Where are the jobs he has created? What industries has he helped? Etc. Just drill down and make them be specific. They will answer your first question, they will normally give up when you ask your second, or if they are really persistant your third. All they know is what they hear on Fox. You won’t convince them, but you won’t have to listen to their nonsense ever again because they won’t spew it if they know you are going to question them.

[renate]

20. do you know her in real life?

Any chance she's just a Russian?

[vercetti2021]

21. Are you sure it wasn't some Russian dipshit?

Sounds like it. Sounds like a broken freaking record

[Dan]

22. Personal advice to self

Don’t engage the insane.

[RhodeIslandOne]

23. You're arguing with a Russian bot

Let it go.

[dewsgirl]

53. Bots don't usually respond.

[COLGATE4]

24. You can't fix stupid nt

[Maru Kitteh]

25. Dude. You just had an argument with a chat-bot.

Compliment of Putin.

Seriously.

[Garrett78]

26. There will inevitably be Trump voters who vote Dem in 2020, but it'd be crazy...

...to base a campaign on flipping Trump voters. The focus has to be on turning out the base in a big way. Let the fickle and the ignorant do as they may. Focus on fighting voter suppression and turnout of the base.

[Glamrock]

28. What can one do, in the face of such momumental denial?

[lancelyons]

29. It's hopelessly futile

My father has the same disease facts don’t matter and what about (insert Pelosi Schumer or Clinton).

I hope a number of them eventually suffer for their terrible decision to continue supporting trump.

[radius777]

30. Translation: "protect me from darkies, Mr. Trump."

Basically these people live in paranoia of PoC, gays, liberals, women working - basically anyone who threatens there conservative old-time worldview.

Their religiousity is not in contradiction to love of Trump, when you figure that their conception of God/Jesus is a wrathful/vengeful figure that serves the same role as Trump, of protecting them from the modern world.

[dawg day]

31. Lately I've been just shrugging and saying, I don't argue with cultists

And if she says, I am not a cultist!
I say, I won't argue about that, because, as I said, I don't argue with cultists. It's a waste of time.

I do wonder what these people are going to do when he resigns in disgrace and is arrested.
Die?

[Talitha]

32. She'll see the light when she gets her tax returns...

[TeamPooka]

33. Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.

George Bernard Shaw

[ooky]

34. It is not a good use of your time to argue with one of those

morons. It serves no useful purpose.

[LakeArenal]

36. Pray for me? Great, pray for me to win the lottery!

(Stolen from a DU-er)

[peggysue2]

37. There's nothing you can do . . .

beyond writing off the truly deluded. I'm way past tired of making excuses or forgiving the unforgivable.

We need or eyes on the prize--extricating the treason weasels in power and reclaiming our institutions.

As for the cultists? All you can hope for is that the Kool-Aid will wear off. Sometime.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

38. "Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired."

- Jonathan Swift

[MrScorpio]

39. You might not take my advice...

But I think that you should just leave her alone.

Try not to feel as if you’re obligated to convince her of anything. Because when it comes right down to it, you’re not obligated at all.

It’s the same as the fact that you’re not obligated to validate any of their delusions either. They should have no valid way to tell them otherwise, were you to point that simple fact out to them.

These people aren’t going to change their minds about Trump, no matter what you say to them. As a matter of fact, your efforts to change their minds minds actually fuels their unwillingness to do so.

They’re actually too ignorant to understand just how ignorant they actually are. Basically Dunning-Kruger does an excellent job at explaining what’s wrong with these people.

Most of all, it’s best to come to the realization that delusional people should just left with the consequences of their own delusions.

This goes to what I’ve always said about Trump, that he should only be trusted at one’s own peril. They’re gonna get theirs eventually, it’s only a matter of time.

Let them go.

[Denzil_DC]

42. Unless it amuses you, why did you bother continuing

once it became apparent that this "person" was unreachable?

If you see part of your mission on social media as to try to persuade others, you could have instead spent the time on people who might be persuadable.

On the other hand, you tied "her" up for a while, I guess.

This doesn't include the knock-on effects on any onlookers to your discussion, of course, but it doesn't sound like it was an exchange that would have kept many people's attention.

[Niagara]

44. It doesn't matter if the MAGAt is family, friend or some random person/bot

This meme has served me well to any MAGAt regardless of their registered political party.


Welcome to DU.

[SweetieD]

45. You were probably arguing with a paid troll. There are firms that pay people to

Engage in this sort of thing.

[Maru Kitteh]

46. I don't even think it's human. I think it's an algorithm.

The repetition is just so bot. And not a very good one, either.

[Locrian]

58. da - agree comrad! - n/t

eeerr,, I mean NYE! NYET! iS no bot! Must be veddy veddy true amerikan! No russian collussion seri!!s!

[ellie]

47. It sounds like a bot

[Orangeutan]

48. Thanks to all who responded.

[Moebym]

49. I have a friend who drank the Kool-aid

She thinks Trump is the shit. I've only heard her criticize him once, on the tariffs, but other than that one quibble he's "wonderful". She immerses herself daily in the right wing bubble - Fox News/Business, Rush, RW talk radio, Yahoo News (which is about as "liberal" a source of news as she can tolerate).

The rest of our group of friends are Democrats, so we have a tacit agreement not to talk politics. (Not that we don't sometimes do so anyway. My Republican friend is usually the one who brings it up, to no one's surprise.)

[Efilroft Sul]

54. Rationalizing is a helluva drug.

[StarryNite]

55. Creepy

[True Blue American]

56. Sounds like a Russian bot to me.

Or just plain stupid.

[certainot]

59. suggestion - pivot it to limbaugh - constantly lies, never been right about anything, etc

she knows limbaugh and may be a dittohead will go nuts trying to defend him

get her to say she listens to limbaugh and she'll melt

[onlyadream]

61. If I believed in the modern take on Revelations,

which I don’t, the story goes that there will be a great deceiver and many believers will fall for it. That story jives with what’s going on with many evangelicals like this lady.

But it’s all nonsense.

[keithbvadu2]

62. To his evangelicals/Christians, Trump is so devout

To his evangelicals/Christians, Trump is so devout

[oldlibdem]

63. At the risk of coming across too strong...

You're arguing with someone who believes in magic. Every response from her involves Deity. " I'll pray", is synonymous to admitting to a limited intellect. Like arguing with a person who believes that the earth is flat. You could waste your time doing it, or simply say goodbye and move on. My mother told me years ago to never argue with a fool as people might not be able to tell the difference! This is what crosses my mind when you have an argument with someone and there every response involves Jesus, or pray. Like people seeing Jesus in a slice of toast and believing it's a miracle. It's funny for a minute and then it's weird. Never waste your time with these fool's, they only know one thing. They're right because the voices in their head (Jesus) says they are.

[Orangeutan]

64. She blocked me (after I mentioned Trump might be the antichrist). So not a bot.

[JHB]

65. Yeah, people are so aware of bots and Russians these days that they forget...

...those simply copied preexisting templates: True Believers and volunteer trolls.

[Tumbulu]

67. Yes, I have a few young friends like this

and they are so brainwashed by both the right wing media and their religious leaders.

It is terrifying, and I have no answers.

[Mr. Frost]

70. Should've said this

"If that is what you truly believe, then you leave me with no choice. You just became an enemy." Mic drop.

[cstanleytech]

72. There have always, always been kool-aid drinkers like that in the world and there always will be.

About the best you can do is keep one eye on them while working around them.

[Woodwizard]

73. People like that are all over my county facebook group.

Its a wast of time rationalizing anything to them, I take comfort that though they are the most prominent on the group by sheer obnoxious intent they are nowhere near a real representation of our county, they just love banging on the keyboard and posting memes.

[90-percent]

74. According to my lifelong hero

"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa



Faith - that seems to be a requirement for current religions. Hard to persuade people that unconditionally accept the unprovable based on the Bible and whatever they learn from their church.


This whole thing with the rapture is a late 19th Century invention, isn't it? And it's the reason they aggressively support Israel, no matter how many war crimes they inflict on Palestinians. Creepy to the max.

-90% Jimmy

[Trueblue Texan]

75. I think you were conversing with a Russian bot.

[bobbieinok]

76. I suspect she's an Evangelical and gets further brain'washed every Sunday. And from televangelists

5 minutes watching a YouTube video from the Jim Bakker show makes me dizzy from the bombardment from the Trump universe.

[Squinch]

77. Why would you even try? It just feeds the bots and trolls.

[MrGrieves]

78. you are arguing with a bot.

stop wasting your time.

[Swallowtail]

79. How I respond

It's not possible to engage constructively with these people, so I usually respond with something like, "Fortunately for America, you're part of a shrinking fringe minority that will soon be irrelevant," or "Fortunately, the vast majority of Americans know better."

[CDerekGo]

81. After your Discussion, which by the way, was entirely relevant

And to which this individual only responded with Faux News talking points, and 'prayers' to the Space Fairy, I believe your only response at that point could have been, "You're a Special Kind of Stupid, aren't you?" Done that on more than one occasion. Then blocked the azzhat. Know that's not the most responsible action, but I just can't with these people.

[Merlot]

82. Your time would be better spent convincing a non-voter to vote

These people are not worth the time, and only serve as a distracton. That's what they're hoping to do - take up your time and energy. That's what they consider a "win."

[forklift]

83. I deal with such deluded people as well and get frustrated

I turn it around and say, "No, I'm praying for you so you'll see the light one day."

It is useless. If Fox news existed back then, Nixon would have survived.