Everyone Should Look At The NY Times Roster Of The Dead

[xchrom]

http://www.businessinsider.com/it-doesnt-matter-how-busy-you-are--stop-and-think-about-the-ny-times-roster-of-the-dead-2012-8


Sarina Butcher, was 19 years old in 2011 when she was killed in Iraq

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/faces-of-the-dead.html?ref=us#/copes_gregory_t

The New York Times ran a four page spread Wednesday of every American servicemember killed in Afghanistan. I saw it at the gym on TV in the morning, and with the demands of the day promptly forgot about it.

But there it was laid out at the corner bodega on my way home from dinner, and the shop owner just let me take it.

Titled The Roster of the Dead, the four page section contains the faces, ages, and hometowns of more than 2,000 dead American troops.

It's horrific, and while I took pictures of the four sheets of newsprint and posted them below, it's impossible to convey what they mean.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/it-doesnt-matter-how-busy-you-are--stop-and-think-about-the-ny-times-roster-of-the-dead-2012-8#ixzz24NHyn1H5

[The Straight Story]

1. Shawn Hannon

Old friend of mine was there. Thanks for the link.

[xchrom]

3. ...

[spanone]

2. k&r...

[think]

4. K&R

[RandiFan1290]

5. This happens when Dems play footsie with reps

I will never forget that sham IWR vote. Dems told us they had to vote with Bush to "send a message" to Saddam. This is where the "centrist" and "moderate" dems get us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution

[MannyGoldstein]

7. Yep. nt

[hfojvt]

8. "Dems told us"

Which Dems?

Your own link shows a MAJORITY of Democrats voting against it.

111 voted for it. 147 voted against it.

Why do you think the minority of the party speaks for the whole party?

And electorally some did need to vote for it. Like Daschle, for example. He was defeated in 2004, by a narrow margin.

[RandiFan1290]

24. Robert Wexler was my rep at the time.

The Senate vote wasn't even close. 77-23 We couldn't even get one of those handy "secret holds" the repubs get to use so often.

Democrats were led by the nose into that vote.

[hfojvt]

27. the Senate vote was not close

because every single Republican, but one, voted for it. The vote among Senate Democrats was 29-22. As for a hold, it would be kinda hard to sell that to a public seemingly largely in favor of the war. If not, the public had an opportunity to defeat every single Republican and Democrat who voted for the war, and to defeat George W. Bush, in 2004 - and the public chose not to.

[bongbong]

55. Correction

> ... to defeat George W. Bush, in 2004 - and the public chose not to.

This is a false statement. The correct version is:

... to defeat George W. Bush, in 2004 - and the public chose to, but the vote rigging & election fraud in Ohio and other states allowed him to "win".

[Jack Sprat]

73. I don't remember that.

I personally don't remember it being a large majority of the public in favor of the war at all. If anything, there was only a slight edge of public support for the war. Mostly, it was a convulsion from the large majority favoring the strikes in Afghanistan that didn't require an invasion force. Iraq was looked on very leerily by half the population. My Dad, who was a WWII veteran, was dying and very weak in the days leading up to the war. I met him one morning at his bedside and he looked up with a sarcastic smile asking if the war had started yet. He thought it was a joke too.

[Blanks]

45. Which shouldn't surprise anyone.

Since the networks are owned by the arms industry; it doesn't take much to get people whipped into an emotional frenzy.

Any dissent to the war could not be heard over the roar of the pro-war networks.

The trick is to make people understand that they are being emotionally manipulated by the very industry that benefits financially from war.

Not an easy task.

[dflprincess]

64. Wellstone was in a very tight race but voted against it though all his advisors told him it

was the wrong move. But Paul said he had to be able to live with himself.

He took a big jump in the polls after that vote and would have won reelection had he lived.

Daschle did not need to vote for it. His vote for it may very well have hurt him in 2004. Holding on to his senate seat was not as important as the lives he was willing to gamble to do so.

[Le Taz Hot]

66. Feinstein was safe

and she voted for it as well. I'll never forget her on CSPAN during the IWR debate saying that her office had received 10,000+ communiques AGAINST the war and 300 FOR. She voted FOR. Her husband then proceeded to make millions off of it.

[hfojvt]

75. sorry, but it is just silly to compare South Dakota to Minnesota

For one thing, the sun shines in South Dakota, unlike the land of 10,000 scud.

For another, in 2004, SD voted for Bush by 232, 584 to 149,244. So in order to win the election, Daschle had to get 41,671 Bush voters to also vote for him. Minnesota, on the other hand, voted for Kerry by 1,445,014 to 1,346,695. So in order to lose the election, Wellstone (or Mondale) had to lose 49,160 Kerry voters.

As it turned out, Daschle got 202,450 (as near as I can tell from Wiki which does not want to give raw numbers, only percentages (and I find it odd that 409,408 people voted for the Senate but only 381,828 voted for the President )) to 206,958 to Thune. And Mondale lost by 1,067,246 to 1,116,697. He only needed 13.1% of the 378,000 Kerry voters who stayed home to come out and vote for him to win it. If the same percentages had held as in 2004, Mondale would have won with 1,129, 644 votes to 1,054,299. Daschle simply didn't have that kind of advantage.

[geardaddy]

81. Your hate for MN is strong.

"For one thing, the sun shines in South Dakota, unlike the land of 10,000 scud."

What does that even mean?

[hfojvt]

85. spend a spring in Minnesota, like I did for five springs

and you will find out.

Look up the meaning of the word "scud".

Okay, I will do it for you

Ah crud, it's not even in my Oxford Desk Dictionary, which goes from scuba to scuff. Fortunately, I own a tattered Random House unabridged. It says

scud - ...6. low drifting clouds appearing beneath a cloud from which precipitation is falling, much like the weather seen in Minnesota for 100 straight frigging days every frigging spring.

Okay, it doesn't say that last part, but it could.

A number of times I drove home from the University of Minnesota under leaden skies of scud, until we got closer to the SD border and we started to see blue skies, and as we kept driving, more blue skies until we reached the Sunshine State!!!

http://www.netstate.com/states/intro/sd_intro.htm

"The Sunshine State
South Dakota has been promoted as "The Sunshine State" in state publications promoting tourism because of the great percentage of sunshine that is present during the year."

Way back in 1980, I was happy to leave my little hick town and scoff at those SD universities in Brookings and Vermintown, but it seemed like 8 of every ten Minnesotans that I met could not resist spitting on SD when they found out I was from there. Thus making me disposed, even all these years later, to take a gratuitous swipe at their lack of sunshine. Uncalled for? Probably, but they drew first blood.

[geardaddy]

86. Well, I've spent 40 something springs here.

Sorry your experience was so hateful.

[dflprincess]

88. Wellstone was running in 2002 - the campaign was on at the time the IWR was voted on

by the time Daschle ran in 2004 more people were waking up to the idea they'd been had.

And, again, Daschle's political career was not more important than the lives that were lost in the needless war he suported.

[RZM]

9. The roster is of soldiers killed in Afghanistan n/t

[RandiFan1290]

25. My mistake. Was misled by the picture of Sarina Butcher. nt

[hfojvt]

29. no, it includes both

in which case, it does not seem complete. Perhaps, like a yearbook, there are some in the "not pictured" category.

[Lasher]

77. 2,000 US forces have been killed in Afghanistan.

'No one really cares': US deaths in Afghanistan hit 2,000 in 'forgotten' war

4,326 killed in Iraq.

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/tollofwar/tollofwarmain.html

[hfojvt]

82. exactly, it is not nearly complete

However, it says at the link

"Each United States service member who has died in Iraq or Afghanistan and been identified by the Defense Department, is represented by a small square to the right."

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/faces-of-the-dead.html?ref=us#/copes_gregory_t

Perhaps the hard copy Times was all Afghanistan but the online database/link was both, as proven by the quote and the inclusion of Heath McMillin, who died in Iraq.

[geardaddy]

13. Both my senators voted against it.

And my house rep.

[closeupready]

15. That vote is one I ALWAYS check for on incumbents

who are running for re-election. ALWAYS.

[patrice]

26. HISTORY: This is what happens when the PEOPLE of USA surrender moral responsibility for OUR troops.

This is what happens when the PEOPLE of America surrender their intellectual responsibility to know and understand what is going on to the media.

This is what happens when the PEOPLE of America surrender their civic responsibilities to government that they neither know nor understand and, perhaps, prefer to keep it that way, so that there's always someone else to blame for whatever goes wrong or doesn't work.

[JNelson6563]

54. There were some brave souls who stood against it.

I'll never forget Senators Byrd & Levin and their valiant efforts. I really hated that our 04 candidates both voted for the war.

Julie

[WCGreen]

76. Yep!!!!

[rurallib]

6. incredible the job that Bushco did to keep most of America from being involved

in either of their wars. That should never happen again.

[Raster]

31. and that's the way it was planned.... from 1999 when the PNAC talked about needing...

...a new "Pearl Harbor-type" event to frighten Americans, to cheney's SECRET 2000 energy meetings, to the confirmed "ginning up" and falsification of "evidence" to justify invading both Iraq and Afghanistan.

bush*/cheney* and their band of international war criminals were planning on these two wars of vanity and greed LONG BEFORE THEY EVER STOLE THE WHITE HOUSE.

And yes, everything was planned to keep America in the dark about actual plans and events as much as possible.

[hfojvt]

10. Heath McMillin

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/us/faces-of-the-dead.html?ref=us#/mcmillin_heath_a

I used to wear a button with his name on it.

[AtheistCrusader]

11. Damn.

I mean it's not like I haven't been 'on this' the whole time, and yelling about bringing the rest of them home for years...

but that article was hard to read. Hits home hard.

[SunSeeker]

12. What a tragic waste.

[coalition_unwilling]

14. It makes me sick to see these brave youth sacrificied upon

the altar of imperial hubris.

Afghanistan was truly a bi-partisan effort. Thanks a lot, Dems who supported this nonsense.

[barbtries]

16. no words just now.

[Iggo]

17. Goddammit!

[jamesatemple]

18. Yep, I agree!

But, you know, I don't believe in gods. If one existed, it would have already damned such horror.

[Iggo]

20. Neither do I. That's just how I talk.

[Octafish]

19. It's the least they could do, selling as they did the Big Lie that war was the only option.

The New York Times lied and thousands died. Oh. And all the death is for oil and the nice people in extraction industries.

[nolabear]

21. Reminds me of the Vietnam Memorial Wall, but more so.

God, those children. How can a party so caught up in the loss of potential in abortion be so calloused about the loss of potential in these sweet, dead children?

[nolabear]

22. I'll add that these are only the ones lost in combat. The numbers are so much higher.

Suicide, addiction, brain damage, disability, PTSD, the horror goes on and on. God, these poor children.

[xtraxritical]

48. Well stop selling military service as uber patriotic and "heroic" and maybe these kids would not

have enlisted for death and disability for no good reason in the first place. Military is the problem not the solution. I don't care if vets jump all over this. BTW, our military has not prevailed in a conflict since WWII and we only prevailed then because of ally's like Russia. Peace out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Well to do that you will have to stop the economic draft

we have a draft, just not one that involves middle class kids.

[leftyohiolib]

57. economic draft - that's rich - no one is making them enlist - poor is better than dead

im sure everyone will be happy putting their lives in the hands of people who dont care about them for free.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. There are oodles of data on this

only if you care to look. The google might provide some info, only if you seek it. Suffice it to say, the folks who actually make their lives studying things like this know it is real.

You might want, or not, want to explore this subject a tad more. I promise, learning new stuff can be enlightening. Suffice it to say, I am done trying to hand people's hands.

Google this... economic draft.

[woo me with science]

69. +1

[woo me with science]

70. Delete. Posted wrong place. nt

[Doc_Technical]

23. Tragic.

This reminds me of the June 1969 Life magazine
issue with photos of the Americans killed in
Vietnam during one week.

http://life.time.com/history/faces-of-the-american-dead-in-vietnam-one-weeks-toll/#1

[rustydog]

28. We need to leave Afghanistan and Iraq. too many precious lives snuffed out

not in the name of FREEDOM, not in the name of HONOR, it is in the name of Militarism and the military-industrial complex. endless war, a war we BORROW MONEY FROM CHINA to the tune of billions a month to fight!
End it now, stop the unnecessary deaths.

[xiamiam]

41. lets vote on it..do you know anyone who would vote for more of this bs

thought we were gonna wind this down..now we've got drones ..makes my skin crawl. I will never support any of this illegal war or anyone who tries to sell me a war on a noun without borders..we are so stupid to continue to go along with this for profit war..humiliating and shameful

[JHB]

30. Mail this to every chickenhawk neocon beating the war drums for Iran

That includes the Mitt and Paul.

[pscot]

34. That includes the President as well

Afghanistan is his war now.

[Ineeda]

32. Tragic.

They seem to cross all demographics, white, black, asian, middle eastern, male, female. We can't tell their party affiliation or religion or lack of such. But I wonder about another demographic that we can't see from the photos of these beloved victims. How many were rich? How many were children of our politicians or TPTB? I weep for them and rage against those who let such tragedies happen without a second thought.

[pscot]

33. goddamn,goddamn, goddamn, goddamn

goddamn all the war-loving, fear-mongering mother-fuckers who drove us into this and who keep it going to this day. And the kids are still coming home in baskets!

[Quiet_Dem_Mom]

35. I'm reminded everytime I open my front door. Our neighbors lost

their son in Afghanistan.

In my mind, I'll remember seeing the father pacing the front yard, phoning people or just sitting crying. My heart breaks everytime I see the daughters spend time at Grandpa & Grandma's house.

To multpily that feeling by several thousand times... And add to the devastating amount of suicides over the last few years ... and the vets who came home with life-changing injuries ...

[Agnosticsherbet]

36. You can also visit the long black wall in the mall in Washington D.C.

Another generation's dead, of course.

[leftyohiolib]

37. so stop enlisting. im sick of seeing people die for the corporate puppet masters

[Skittles]

38. I sent care packages to six of them

[xchrom]

39. oh...my

[Taverner]

43. ....

[Iggo]

40. We're sending little girls to their deaths to make Dick Cheney rich(er).

God Bless America.

[Taverner]

42. Sarina Butcher was a mother of one.

Her daughter will grow up never knowing her mother.

Thanks George.

[Heather MC]

44. And if Romney wins the death list will be from Iran

[FiveGoodMen]

47. That may happen either way

But yes, a Romney win is much worse.

[trailmonkee]

46. so sad

[GEOpix]

49. And all for a Bush / Cheney / Rumsfeld wet dream.

Restore the economy through peace and prosperity!!!

[Doctor_J]

61. Well, they've been out of office for 4 years...

...
...

[WillyT]

51. DU Rec !!!

[notadmblnd]

52. it's a damn shame isn't it?

that so many of our kids have had to die on behalf of corporate interests. Corporations that won't give them jobs if they do make it home. Corporations- that in many cases don't even pay taxes to the government for a military that defends their foreign interests. Corporations that have no problem taking from the government in form of human lives or taxpayer dollars.

Kids dead. Not because they wanted to go overseas and kill for these corporations but because many saw the military as their only opportunity for a better future for themselves.

[TBF]

53. The establishment does not care -

the US Military is a big part of our economy and that ain't changing anytime soon.

[JI7]

56. Sarina Butcher was 9 years old when the 9/11 attacks happened and 11 when we went into Iraq

how many 9-11 year olds today including those who might want to go into military service are thinking they might be there when they turn 18 ?

[stuntcat]

58. it's insane

just demonstrates how sick war is. Right NOW is time for humanity to snap out of it and figure out how to save ourselves. But no, war is what we'll do, and the people waging it are not the ones who'll die. Sick.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

59. Cannon fodder for the ambitions of politicians and the enrichment of the MIC.

Who will have monuments built to their memory for other politicians to shed crocodile tears over to encourage the next round of useless slaughter.

[Doctor_J]

60. We have to fight them over there...

or they'll be storming the beaches of Nebraska next week.

[xchrom]

63. And bringin us Sharia Law ...an whatever... Nt

[Solly Mack]

67. K&R

and for what?

[triplepoint]

68. Dead Duped/Unwitting Corporate Mercenaries

and this isn't the end of that torrent of humanity....not while the Military-Industrial Complex is still in power....It may end when the last "king" is strangled by the entrails of the last "priest" though...
.
.
.
.
.

[woo me with science]

71. DU Rec. The purchase of our government is a moral issue.

Blood for profit. Impoverishment for profit. Suffering for profit. Economic desperation for profit.

It is global, and it is evil.

We have to fix this, and it is not going to be easy. But we have to fix it.

[JackRiddler]

72. Now imagine the encyclopedia it would require...

to show a roster of the Iraqis and Afghanis and Yemenis and others murdered in the same invasions and aggressions. In their own countries.

[woo me with science]

74. [phone]

[valerief]

78. My thoughts exactly. All that murder, just to make rich people richer. nt

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

79. Saddest.Link.Ever

What a god-awful waste of young lives.

[KoKo]

80. Faces and names of endless war....how many suicides, PTSD and maimed are out there...

And yet it goes on and is supported with our money...the blood is on all our hands.

[steve2470]

83. k&r nt

[woo me with science]

84. Kick

[woo me with science]

87. kick