I believe trump flat-out rigged the election

[cilla4progress]

The vote totals in WI, MI, PA were implausibly close.

The 75+ pages of "polling data" Manafort gave Kilimnik.

Projection. How trump kept saying the election was rigged.

This is what Mueller has to keep close to his vest every day....

my belief

[blm]

1. Same

.

[Pachamama]

77. +1000000- Same here as well - Ultimately I believe THIS will end up being shown to be the biggest of

....the revelations and crimes that Robert Mueller shows was done: That the Trump Campaign with Individual !'s full knowledge (and his children and Son in law), had turned over polling data and information, all processed by Cambridge Analytica and with the help of the Russians, not only had social media bots and hackers manipulating information in the media, but that they KNEW which states specifically (PA, MI, WI etc), and in which counties to HACK the machines and change the data so that Trump won the ELECTORAL vote.

This.....

[SMoss]

114. Agree

I completely agree. Put 100 people at computers in the Moscow Troll farm on election day and each one changes 850 votes randomly selected in critical districts in 3 states, no recognizable pattern We have known for a decade that those systems were hackable. At a IT conference in Los Vegas hackers on stage hacked the Diebold and other networked voting machines in less than 15 minutes. The GOPosaurs blocked efforts to secure those voting systems. Why, because they knew for a decade that the hacks were benefiting and would benefit republican/libertarian candidates.
By the way, the republican party does not exist and hasn't for many years. It is now the covert libertarian party, owned by the American oligarchs organized by the Kock Bros.

[MFM008]

2. Your not alone

Anyone sane knows they did something.

[Mr. Evil]

48. + 1,000,000

[Funtatlaguy]

3. Vote totals from Milwaukee, Detroit, Philadelphia were odd.

[TheRealNorth]

13. Milwaukee

I can't speak for Philadelphia or Detroit, but voting in Milwaukee is mostly done via a ballot that the voting machine scans (hence there is a traceable ballot). Furthermore, they did a hand recount in Milwaukee County.

I would be more suspicious of funny business going on in the rural counties (like there was in North Carolina). In a lot of those counties, they only did machine recounts.

The issue in Milwaukee was voter suppression (new Photo ID requirements + Social media persuading Democratic constituencies people not to vote).

[Funtatlaguy]

17. Very low numbers in African American areas of those states.

[Ellipsis]

53. Milwaukee county has 950,000 people of which 40% are black.

While it is true that there are close to six million people in Wisconsin and only 6.3% are black, Milwaukee's manufacturing environment attracted a large black migration after world war II. The city is still highly segregated.

[MichMan]

87. I was expecting AA turnout to be down over 2012

I never expected AA turnout to be nearly as strong for Clinton as it was for President Obama.

[Ellipsis]

43. Wrong. They DID NOT do a hand recount in Milwaukee county

60 of 72 counties did a hand recount Milwaukee was not one of them.

[LisaM]

103. Detroit had issues with voting machines, and Milwaukee was disproportionately affected by ID laws.

I would not be surprised if Philadelphia had issues with machines, too.

For all people rant and rave about Hillary not campaigning in Racine or the UP, they should really look at the cities where the race was really won or lost. Wisconsin knocked more people off the rolls than the Trump's margin on victory. More people didn't vote in Detroit than Trump's margin of victory.


http://time.com/4599886/detroit-voting-machine-failures-were-widespread-on-election-day/

Michigan also needs to update their recount law.

[triron]

36. Vote tallies and voter registrations were screwed with. Mark my word.

[LakeArenal]

4. Yep.

[ProudLib72]

5. Not Rump himself

Rump is too damned stupid to pull it off on his own. That's why Mueller needs to indict every last person involved in the rigging of the election.

[PatSeg]

25. I agree

I still think Trump was surprised he won. I believe it was the Russians perhaps with help from some Trump people here.

[Hekate]

60. Remember the election night photo of the Trumps on a couch, just nakedly gobsmacked?

This was not the result they were expecting or had planned for. That photo is one for the books.

[ProudLib72]

68. Oh come on. Why did you use the word "naked" when talking about the Rump?

You know I pictured it and Melanie sitting naked on the couch.

[PatSeg]

69. The whole family was caught off guard

and Melania was very upset.

No doubt Putin encouraged him and helped him in his run for president, but for the Trumps it was a publicity tour, the ultimate reality television show, plus Donald was really having fun. Great for the brand, but apparently Putin was more serious than Trump was.

[murielm99]

112. I prefer to call it the

deer-in-the-headlights look.

The whole family had that look election night.

[MrsMatt]

78. In absolute agreement.

You can see it in his face later too, when he meets Pres. Obama in the Oval Office. He's still in shock.

[FiveGoodMen]

97. You're exhonorating him of collusion

[blm]

81. Priebus and Walker had Wisconsin pre-rigged.

Because Mueller was actively probing 2016 election, they couldn’t steal 2018 for Walker.

[Lifelong Protester]

100. True!

Thank God for Evers. Couldn't wait to get Walker out.

[uponit7771]

6. This is a ... RATIONAL ... conclusion based on all the BS lying, covering up what's already KNOWN!!!

[Baltimike]

23. this. nt

[apcalc]

7. Spot on...rigged

[Doodley]

8. Why wouldn't he rig the election? He has tried to cheat lie and rig his whole life.

[thesquanderer]

24. Some feel he never really wanted (or expected) to win. (n/t)

[Mr. Evil]

41. That's what they want you to think. That Trump was only in it for shits and giggles.

I think that's bullshit. They knew the fix was in, especially Mitch McConnell. Why else would he withhold a confirmation vote on President Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland for the SCOTUS knowing that every poll (even Rasmussen) had Hillary comfortably ahead? According to the polls she was going to be president for all intents and purposes. But, he kept saying the next president should make that decision. Moscow Mitch is not a gambler so how could he be so cavalier to make such a bold statement? If anything, aside from being corrupt, he is cold and calculating and he knew this was his chance to stack the SC with another corrupt conservative. Don't tell me he was guessing or hoping. He knew the fix was in. HE FUCKING KNEW!

[Whiskeytide]

44. I don't think he -trump - wanted to win. Certainly not at first. I think...

... some very corrupt, powerful, well financed people wanted him to win. He was just the dolt they needed to pull it off.

[triron]

47. Trump knew the Russians were screwing with the electorate and would screw around with the votes.

Don't kid yourself. The rest was a facade.

[Mr. Evil]

50. Exactly! We all know where and from whom Trump receives his marching orders.

[Whiskeytide]

51. Perhaps. But I really don't buy the theory that...

... trump is some kind of evil mastermind. If he’s just “acting” like an egocentric, self absorbed incurious, moron who lacks even a 3rd graders comprehension of how government works, he deserves an Emmy.

He’s much more likely just a stooge for others. JMO.

[triron]

64. OK but a knowing stooge then.

A pawn who eagerly accepts the master's decisions.

[thesquanderer]

72. McConnell did not know a Repub would win when he roadblocked Garland.

At that point, he did not even know who the Repub nominee would be!

But once he did roadblock Garland, it would have made no sense to change his mind before November 8, even if he expected Hillary to win. There would have been zero upside to doing that. If he really did prefer Garland to a theoretical Hillary nomination, he still would have had at least November 9 through Dec 31 available to approve Garland if he'd wanted to, without risking even the slightest chance that Hillary would lose, and without doing something that might unnecessarily anger some of Republican base before the November 8 election

[Mr. Sparkle]

9. The wining margins in a few states are far to close for it not to look a bit suspicious.

[0rganism]

10. if you're correct, we are in deep shit indeed

whatever he did before, he did without the power of the presidency. now he has that and he runs the DOJ.

i don't see how we stop him before he steals 2020.

[triron]

37. My fear as well.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

11. I've thought that ever since election night.

[JoeOtterbein]

12. On the 2016 election night, I went to bed after I saw Trump won Florida. I knew

then the election was rigged.

And that I needed the sleep.

[at140]

14. Rump is too stupid to have changed PA, MI, WI

It was the RNC behind the rigging. Rump could not find his way out of a paper bag.

[rwsanders]

54. And he's still there because either chaos is cover or he's a useful idiot to someone.

He's not working, who's running things?

[MrGrieves]

15. I have never doubted this for a second.

And it makes my blood boil when people (even folks here) tell me there is no way that happened.

[NRaleighLiberal]

16. Absolutely.

[malaise]

18. They stole it

plain and simple - history will absolve me.

[Amaryllis]

19. He had a lot of help from GOP. Kris Kobach and many others. And recently what came out

about Ted Cruz. And i would bet that Turtle and Ryan and others were also working with Russians. We know they broke into voter reg databases and they didnt do that just to prove they could.

[world wide wally]

20. Of course, Trump cheated

That's what he does.
Period

[fierywoman]

21. Same. His constant "projecting" gives it away.

[Moostache]

101. No puppet...you're the puppet...you're the puppet! (n/t)

[marlakay]

22. I think he tried to cheat or knew about

What others were doing, but even with that I still don’t think he thought he would win or wanted to.

I think he did the whole thing as a big con to get more business for his brand and never expected even with help to win the first few days after election and the day he was sworn in you can’t fake how both him and his wife looked.

But once he won I think his people accepted even more help from Russia once again then thinking I don’t want to do this but if I am I will make a ton of money, I will be the most insane crazy president and surely the republicans will ask me to step down.

By now he knows they will do anything to stay in power and he has zero respect for any of them for not standing up to him and I think that is part of the reason he tweets even crazier stuff just to show them what he can get away with and how much they have sold their souls.

If he is ever taken down you can believe he will rat on all of them every senator and congressman and anyone else.

[raccoon]

74. Da winner! This is a great thread. Nt

[Locrian]

80. great point

and one I hadn't thought of before

If you wanted to show "who's the boss" to the people who put you in power - of course you would mess with them, attack them, etc. Especially if you knew they would have to sit there and take it.

Fits trump style to a T.

[Eliot Rosewater]

26. They would have us believe putin put all that money and time in to the election to have

a puppet and then SAT BACK on election day and let us decide.

yeah right

[triron]

39. I have a bridge in Arizona to sell to people that think it was a 'fair' election.

[crazytown]

52. High enough to clear a fence?

[triron]

62. Now there is a good selling point I hadn't thought of.

[yaesu]

27. and Eric Holder just tweeted that tRump can be indited

Link to tweet

[Pepsidog]

28. Good point about projection and Trump.

[procon]

29. That would explain why he was pushing "rigged"

on Democrats. He used that word so often it was like his motto. Looking back, now we can see it was just Trump's means of distrating anyone from looking into his own well coordinated efforts to conspire with the Russians to rig his own election.

Yeah, we got conned... Bigly!

[yourmovemonkey]

30. I've said it before, and been jumped on,

but I believe Putin found Rove's back door. And that's also the kompromant he has on all of them: That GWB's second term was illegitimate. The GOP never intended to use it for tRump, only to maintain control of congress to keep Hillary in check.

But for them now to point a finger at Putin, is to admit that the mechanism was already put in place by them.

[Docreed2003]

34. That's a great point and makes total sense

[Generic Other]

98. This is a thoughtprovoking allegation

The need for verifiable paper ballots is more critical than ever.

[BadgerMom]

31. Since 2016

mine, too.

[hoosieib2]

32. Disagree

White working class voters in the Midwest wanted a step change from the status quo and they hated HRC, especially male union members. With the exceptions of PA and OH, it's why Bernie performed so well in the primary. The writing was on the wall and the Midwest was largely abandoned during the fall of 2017.

The good news is that many got burned and they won't make the same mistake mistake twice. There is no way Trump get re-elected.

[Cha]

55. Well, you're Wrong.

[PDittie]

91. You have it correct

and welcome to DU!

[Cha]

96. No he doesn't.

[Horse with no Name]

33. Same.

I don’t believe this result is legit for a minute.

[Honeycombe8]

35. I think you're right. I thought this early on, beginning election night...esp re PA.

The numbers didn't make sense or jive with most of the data. These candidates, esp ones like Clinton, have their polling downpat, in this day and age. They can be off, but not THAT off in several key states.

It wouldn't be hard to do, once they know which districts in which states to tweak. Just a couple of purple districts in three or four states, and he's a winner, if he wins the other states he was projected to win.

I do think it was rigged. And that's why he started yelling at his rallies, "The election is rigged, if I don't win!" Because that takes the wind out of the sails, if the Democrats claimed that after the rigged election put him in office. It's an old M.O. for con men. You call your opponent what YOU are that's negative, or what the situation is. So when they claim the truth, it sounds like they're being defensive or parroting what HE said.

[dflprincess]

38. I became convinced about it after the House & Senate committess had top secret briefings on Russian

"interference".

Maxine Waters came out of her meeting spitting tacks & I thought she might be ready to kill someone. Grassley & Feinstein came out of the Senate meeting together, both looking ill & then Grassley let Feinstein do all the talking.

But, because it was all "top secret" no one could say anything of substance.

[triron]

40. Exit polls also tend to corroborate what you are saying.

[calimary]

42. Yep. His so-called "victory" is flat-out ILLEGITIMATE.

It wasn’t a clean win, a clear win, or an honest win. He fucking CHEATED. He colluded directly or indirectly (by telling his campaign staff and/or White House staff what to do and how to cheat) with a Hostile Foreign Power.

[CCExile]

45. Trump said it was rigged, but we didn't realize it was an admission of guilt.

Accept the admission belatedly. Impeach him.

[spanone]

46. 'Russia, if you're listening.....'

[DesertRat]

49. Exactly. nt

[DirtEdonE]

56. pootin found the weak links in our electoral system

And he took advantage of them - aside from sowing division in the electorate the russians took advantage of The Electoral College chiefly, IMO.

pootin knew exactly how many votes he needed to win the Electoral College and isn't is amazing that the states needed for the losing candidate to win all just happened to go to the pubicans by just a few votes each.

Yeah, that happened.

And if trump and pootin didn't steal 2016 then why this?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142274718

[tinrobot]

99. I think it was stolen for him, but with his help.

Cohen today said the election was just a big infomercial. I tend to believe that. Trump never wanted the job, just publicity and the resulting money.

Sure, he was complicit with a lot of it, such as the emails and other dirty tricks. That speaks to his pettiness and need to bully others. I also think he had no regard for the law and did what Russia wanted.

But I also think Russia went far, far, beyond that and actually got him elected by tampering with registrations and perhaps the votes themselves.

[PatrickforO]

57. Hope so!

This was treason, and we cannot let it stand.

[wiggs]

58. I found it interesting that the US shut down the Russian internet on our 2018 election day. I think

it suggests that the Russians are actively doing something on election day...direct hacking? Election day is really too late for a disinformation campaign...so was our intelligence community thinking Russians have the capability to 'adjust' vote counts? Somehow get into voter registration data banks so that certain provisional or absentee ballots are rejected? In what other elections was this also a possibility?

If a 10 year old hacker could hack into a voting machine or vote count computer....then why on earth WOULDN'T Russia, Chine, N Korea, Saudis, or others try?

[The Liberal Lion]

59. I don't know if trump himself did it

but I unhesitatingly believe trump did not win in WI, MI, or PA for sure and probably also not in FL and NC.

[lpbk2713]

63. Of couse he did. That's the way he always did business.

He's not going to do politics any different.

[mvd]

65. I have always had that feeling

Winning the popular vote by almost 3 million and losing by such small margins in important states is very fishy to me. It would take very, very bad luck to happen without shenanigans.

[Fuzzpope]

66. 100% agree.

It's nice to see someone else state the obvious without having to first don a tin foil hat.

We have known since GWB that diebold machines are easily manipulated en masse via network connection, we've watched the practice in real time.

Ability = check

Motive = check

Consequences = undetermined

[C Moon]

67. Wouldn't it be amazing if they figured out how the GOP has been cheating in the past 2 decades...

and the country was suddenly thrust into honest elections.
I believe the Democratic Party would rule the country for a long, long time.

[lunamagica]

70. There is no doubt that the election was stolen

[cilla4progress]

71. NEVER BEEN SO GRATIFIED HERE

I posted this OP like 10 hours ago. I figured I'd get flamed for it Don't hear that term - flamed - much any more, but back in the day (like 15 years ago, when I first logged in here), it meant trashed. People thought you were apeshit crazy.

To have you all agree, WITHOUT assessing me as a conspiracy theorist...And you're all so SMART and INFORMED...

Truly a great feeling.

We can - we WILL - SURVIVE!

[brooklynite]

86. The Party Chair of OH disagrees with you...so does Hillary Clinton.

[musicblind]

75. Normally, I would agree with you.

But, I truly believe Trump did not expect to win, as Cohen testified.

In the days leading up to the election, Trump held meetings and made filings for a Trump TV network. He was planning to use his Presidential run to launch a stupid right wing TV network....

Russia rigged the election and Trump colluded to help them do it, but I think he only wanted a super close election. I don't think he wanted to win.

[cilla4progress]

89. I take

your point!

[jimlup]

76. Speaking from Michigan I absolutely agree

The vote totals in Detroit were irregular. If you want to rig an election that is how to do it. Let me explain.

If you want to rig an election towards the RED you simply pick the deepest BLUE you can find (Metro-Detroit) and then screw up the voting machines and accounting. This reduces the BLUE vote and in a swing state like Michigan it is just enough. Several reports, before the recount was shut down by the Republicans, showed serious problems with the Detroit votes and the Detroit vote totals.

I also think folks should be looking for irregularities in North Carolina and Florida.

One final observation is that "Trump" is quite incapable of rigging an election. I don't even think he was behind it. My personal observation is that Russian intelligence is totally behind both Trump-puppet and the 2018 election results.

[MichMan]

83. I don't understand how this was pulled off in Detroit ?

Detroit has had election issues for many years. Many of the issues that you described were actually over votes, not votes that were not counted.

The city votes 90+% Democratic and all the elected officials are Dems. Every report I have seen after the fact points towards incompetence by the election officials and staff. Do you think they were in on it, somehow?

[jimlup]

90. This is something I have been very curious about

I agree - the reports indicate incompetence. I'm just wondering if anyone has checked the vote totals. And then, I can't help but ask myself: If I wanted to swing an election towards Republicans where would I mess with stuff? The resounding answer is "DETROIT"

Maybe some of the "incompetence" was built in by other forces. Yes, it is totally a maybe but I hope to hell someone has actually investigated further.

[BeyondGeography]

79. He narrowed the gap even where he lost

In VA, for instance, or little ole Columbia County, NY, and many places in-between. Hillary lost ground from Obama 2016 totals all over the place. Don’t you think she’d be making at least some noise if your theory was remotely true?

Doesn’t matter. Nothing gets in the way of a good CT. Look at this thread, for instance.

[Baconator]

82. This is cherry picking to fit a preconceived theory...

Last edited Wed Feb 27, 2019, 08:59 AM - Edit history (1)

If only because we have every indication that he believed he was going to lose right up until he didn't.

Someone with their thumbs on the scale would have been in a much better position to transition.

The uncomfortable answer is that the opposing candidate miscalculated how important (or safe) those states were and directed resources and attention elsewhere.

[MichMan]

84. It was a change election

Only once in my lifetime has one party won three elections in a row. Many voters were interested in voting against an establishment candidate like HRC.

[Baconator]

88. That was absolutely part of it...

... and a big reason why the party should have put their best foot forward as the historical trends were not in their favor.

[Achilleaze]

85. #MeToo

The republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief is an illegitimate president

[sarcasmo]

92. Finding out our intelligence community shut down the GRU troll farm in 2018

I believe your statement is true.
2018 was a fair and true election with N.Carolina being the exception.

[Warren_Pointe]

93. trump was just the candidate.

mcconnell rigged it all. trump was just most likely to be a russian lackey. They all need a one way ticket to Ekaterinberg.

[AncientGeezer]

104. "mcconnell rigged it all".....how?

[Warren_Pointe]

115. He was in on it from the beginning.

He knew what was going on, and he didn't care who the candidate was. He knew well before election day that the gop was going to be assisted in this win. He would never have held out a supreme court seat for the next president if there were even the slightest chance of that seat being filled by Hillary Clinton. He knew the fix was in. He did not set it in motion or even take an active role in it, but his behavior proves to me that he knew that whatever candidate the gop chose was going to win. He would have taken Garland in a heartbeat if there was any chance whatsoever that Hillary Clinton were going to nominate the next supreme court justice. That old fool would not have taken that chance.

[triron]

117. I agree McConnell was in the know but he didn't do the rigging.

The rigging was done primarily by the Russians in conjunction
with wikileaks, Cambridge Analytica, and key players in the Trump orbit.

[hughee99]

95. So you think Trump manipulated vote totals in those states? Nt

[AncientGeezer]

105. Same question I would ask...

We all know he's an idiot....yet he can manipulate vote totals?

If he can do it in '16....why not '20......it's silly

[Wounded Bear]

102. If he did, he used Repub party tools...nt

[standingtall]

106. I believe Trump and his campaign conspired with Russians to steal the election

and I believe Trump wanted to win too. You don't knowingly cheat if don't want to win. He may have been surprised that the cheating worked, probably because he didn't account for the end of cheating republicans on the ground helping to rig the election. I don't believe for 1 second what republicans did in North Carolina in 2018 was not done 2016 regardless if we can prove it or not.

[WSSlover]

107. Good point, cilla4progress.

Donald Trump did rig the 2016 Presidential Election, with the help of the Electoral College, and with the help of Russia.

[bluestarone]

108. RUMP is too DUMB for this BUT

I FULLY agree the election was rigged and Russia AND some State RETHUGS were responsible!!

[Miigwech]

109. I live in Michigan and always this

the big theft was in Detroit ... machines failing all over and the repub run State also said that the poll workers screwed up tracking votes Vis-a-vis voter roll sing ins at time of voting ... 11,000 votes was all it took

[Scruffy1]

110. It's a certainty.

I make it a probability of one in 3 million. that is about as certain as it gets.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

111. Last time I said that people just said, margin of error

But the improbability of all three Dem states to turn has got to be astronomical.

You are so right about projection.. I work from home with news on in background all day long. I have heard every word fatnixon has said. He always accuses his opponents of exactly what he is doing. Actually an old Rovian trick.

Cohen mentioned today and I have heard from others...trump didn't think he would win. Wish there was some way to identify a point when he thought he could. Well hell, the repuke said it today...he wanted to win. Might be a point he knew the fix was in.

[Ferrets are Cool]

113. When was there EVER a doubt that the 2016

Presidential Election was rigged?

[UCmeNdc]

116. 100% Correct! Trump did not let illegal crimes stop him from getting what he wants.