It is a fool's folly to believe that Trump supporters will change...

[kentuck]

...and they will see the error of their ways. They will not.

Democrats must give up on that delusion and work with a strategy to defeat them in 2020.

We know how they are going to fight. Just yesterday, Trump was hulking and sulking around the stage at the CPAC convention, telling all his adoring supporters that Democrats hated this country.

Democrats have no choice but to fight fire with fire. That is the only strategy that makes sense at this time. Our goal must be to get Donald Trump and the GOP out of office. Impeachment will not do the trick unless the Senate Republicans change their tune? That is not likely.

Neither is it likely that Mueller will give the country enough evidence to convict Donald Trump of any crimes? We should all hope that he does but we should not be pollyannish about it.

The biggest hammer in the Democrats' toolbox is the ability to investigate and to subpoena witnesses. This is the way they must fight fire with fire. So long as the Republicans are resolute in their support of Donald Trump, Democrats have no choice but to keep turning over the rocks and exposing each and every crime of this criminal organization.

Hopefully, the evidence will become so over-whelming that even some Republicans will have to admit its legitimacy. If they do not, Democrats will have no choice but to present the evidence to the voters in November of 2020.

That is the only strategy that I see at this time.

[mr_lebowski]

1. Sounds reasonable to me ... at least insofar as ANYTHING going on ... can be thusly described (nt)

[allgood33]

30. We need Democrats to change...change to get behind whatever Democrat get the nomination and not

go off in a huff to sit out the election or vote third party if the Democrat of their choice does not win the primary. We can hold any Democratic President's feet to the progressive fire once they get in office but we hav no chance of doing so if there is no Democrat in office.

[mr_lebowski]

31. SOLD! (nt)

[elleng]

2. It's a fools folly to think that all of trumps supporters are the same.

[kentuck]

3. Latest polls show that about 90% of Repubs support Trump.

That's a pretty good number.

[Horizens]

18. 24%

Only 24% of the electorate register as Republicans/

[kentuck]

20. But the Republicans usually garner between 45-50% of the vote in presidential elections...

Trump is an anti-establishment, populist politician that appeals to our basest instincts. Unfortunately, that is about 40% of Americans. That is enough to make him competitive in any presidential election.

[aikoaiko]

21. We only need 5-10% to win the electoral college.

There is a murky middle that will move.

But I also agree we need to get those who are demographically Democrats but don’t vote to actually vote. That appears to be as difficult as winning the swing voter.

[kentuck]

23. We should not overlook that there are 5-10% of Democrats that support Trump...

That is probably balanced out by 5-10% of Republicans that do not support Trump.

It's very difficult to predict in this environment, in my opinion.

[Horizens]

24. Messaging

It's about messaging and framing the narrative. Republicans are way better than Dems at this.
And it's about the house and senate not just the race for the white house.

It’s fair to assume that come the 2020 election, both the Reps and Dems have a lock on 35% of the vote. It's absurd, beyond naïve to think that talking socialism, a guaranteed income and eliminating ICE is going to capture a majority of the remaining 30% of the electorate. They’re absolute, 100% loser talking points.

[kentuck]

25. Yes, Repubs will probably be better at framing Democratic issues as "socialism"...

I mean, how do you defend "Medicare-for-all", a guaranteed income, a Green economy, higher taxes on the wealthy, etc??

Democrats should be able to frame all of the issues above in a way that negates the "socialism" charge.

[Hestia]

38. I dunno, Faux News was sneering at the Democratic platform and come to find out, their viewers

were like 90% +/- all for the platform - thought they were all great ideas. Faux talking heads were apoplectic over those stats.

All of which means that there is plenty of room for thoughtful discourse on the issues.

At least, this is what Chris Hayes reported last night.

I think people are tired and angry at these schoolyard bully tactics over each and every question, along with the crowd size. Plus, absolute non-action by the GOP on EVERYTHING, no matter how small, other than Post Office namings, and then blame the Dems for not going along with their agenda, AND THEN have every "reporter" again find the most lunatic GOP members for sound bytes.

I really do wonder what people thought about sitting there for 2 hours listening to his stream of consciousness, and I am not talking about the most country-fied one's either. Gorka must have been a joy, too. Surely, there were some who left scared to death about how far down the rabbit hole their "leaders" have gone.

Personally, I think when the GOP starts spewing their crap, the Democrats should calmly and collectively step up to the microphone and say - we've been listening to this since the Nixon era and look at where their reasoning has gotten us - there are "only" 3,000 billionaires worldwide and they have more assets then the rest of the world, and it is delusional to think they will ever share on their own - we are going to have to wrest a large chunk of change from their greedy, piggy hands in order to have any semblance of a functioning society, especially now, thanks to them, we seem to have only 12 years to get this done. Time really is a'wastin'. (I can be country-fied too.)

We need to choke the 30% in a bathtub and drown *them*.

Plus!! This whole outsider thing is what has brought us here - outsiders don't even know what they don't know and don't seem to care that they don't know, as long as a "reporter" sticks a microphone in their face, they are pleased as punch.

Now's the time for professionals - what's the saying, Bronze Age built the Ark, Professionals built the Titanic.

[Girard442]

7. I'd be a big fan of a strategy to peel off segments of Trump's supporters.

I'm not seeing one. I think they really are pretty much the same.

[Hestia]

39. Agreed - take a real look around - that 30% were the kids you sat next to in class - do you

really want them running the country? Yeah, me neither...

[TwilightZone]

10. For the most part, they are.

His approval among Republicans is 90%+. If they still support him at this point, there's little we are going to be able to do to change that. Rational approaches don't work on the irrational.

[malaise]

4. It is scary to think that 35% of any population will support a known con, criminal, racist

pathological liar and incompetent fool all wrapped in one

[bluestarone]

5. Yes very scary for sure

If these fuckers want it so fucking bad why don't they just fucking move to RUSSIA??

[kentuck]

6. In some cults, people drink kool-aid that they know will kill them...

...because they believe they are going to go to a better place.

[malaise]

8. True - maybe

he should gather them and they can all drink it together so the rest of the planet can live in peace

[Farmer-Rick]

9. I think most polls in the US overestimate the number of his supporters

I do not believe it is 30%. I think it is more likely in the 20s. Most of his real support comes from the CEO and inherited wealth class.

So, getting out the remaining 80% of America to vote-in a sane and honest president is a winning strategy.

[TwilightZone]

14. "Most of his real support comes from the CEO and inherited wealth class." Nah.

Nah, most of his support comes from the rubes who fell for his goofy, isolationist, anti-establishment populism.

They are, as Trump put it, the uneducated, specifically uneducated white people. He won non-college-degreed white people by 39%.

College graduates backed Clinton by a 9-point margin (52%-43%). Among whites in that group, Trump won by only 4%.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

[Farmer-Rick]

19. Yeah, so say the adjusted polls

The polls add in a certain percentage to account for the red shift in voting. That at least makes the polls match the strange voting trends. I've heard that this red shift has been evident since Raygun.

So, polls routinely adjust opinion polls to account for this supposed increase in RepubliCON voters. I think it's simply fraud.

[Hestia]

40. When can we talk about the Real Elephant in the room? Hackers "won" this election. It has absolutely

nothing to do with Hillary's not going to 3 states, which she did, and it has absolutely nothing to do with not have a working platform, which she and we did/do.

A couple of times, Joe Scarbrough (yuck) will go >-< there, but not all the way, and the next day, his handlers have him spewing again about what a horrible candidate Hillary was.

NO SHE WASN'T - the media just gave him $3 billion in attention.
===

Back on topic - Black Hatter's won the last round and until we start giving professionals the tools to choke them off, they are trying their damn-dest to win the next general election.

Does anyone else watch Global GPS with Fareed Zakaria (sp?)? He has leaders from around the world on his show, to discuss how they try to solve (and do) the problems we are going through. Of course, they have a century or two on us, as they have been through this already, though they too are going up against well funded fascists.

It really is a global problem.

Anyway, he aired a segment on Estonia and how they have clamped down on digital defense after Russia took over the government and corporations servers for almost a year in 2011. They really got serious about it.

Now, they are #2 in cyber defense and they do EVERYTHING online - vote, pay taxes, etc. - pretty much have gone absolutely paperless, because 2011 was not going to happen again.

Estonia seems to do it with recruiting the brightest on cyber defense and follows their suggestions. It has worked. But, that is how the Europeans think. When they come up with a real working solution, they fund it the nth degree, no going back, whereas the US has a system where some yokel from Bumfuck (insert state here) can, and will, undo everything the last congressional session has voted on.

Look at Waco TX - CERN should have been ours but some asshole got it unfunded, so all the scientists went to Switzerland where they fund it to this day. (It was ours dammit)

Btw, US is #12 in cyber defense.

[Meowmee]

11. Just 3 days ago

Dump supporters in a store told my father dump is “a fine man”. This is what we are facing. I agree most will not change their minds whatever their reasons are and they will not believe any evidence to the contrary.

[elleng]

12. Ohio Republican judge leaves GOP after 41 years over disgust with the party under Trump.

*“County Democratic Party Chairman Michael Sexton said he has heard rumors that other Republican judges are considering changing their affiliation,” the Dispatch wrote.

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/ohio-republican-judge-leaves-gop-41-years-disgust-party-trump/?

[comradebillyboy]

13. So you're saying they won't flock to Bernie?

[kentuck]

15. I hadn't thought about that!

[RichardRay]

16. Wrong

Here in Wyoming I’ve turned three in the last two years. Anecdotal, I know, and I don’t deny there is a core that is unreachable, but it’s not impossible.

[kentuck]

17. Generally speaking....

You are probably correct. We are seldom correct when we generalize.

[empedocles]

28. My speculation is that the trump 20%? hardcore doesn't change, however,

the next 20-30% is capable of change. The Never Trumpers, etc., evidence that.

Part of the problem of the weaker trump supporters, is that they don't like aspects of the alternatives/dems. [That part is more changeable/ 'negotiable'].

[treestar]

22. We may be above this, but they are pretty dumb

We could re-direct some of them to new scapegoats if we wanted to. Now they pick on minorities and illegal immigrants. Would it be tough to re-direct them to the oligarchs? Granted Fox News would not help. However, we could paint them as a big corporation trying to tell them what to do. Food for thought.

[Baltimike]

26. Facts don't matter to them, nor does the truth. Otherwise

they wouldn't be Trump Chumps.

[oasis]

27. Deplorable until their dying day. nt

[IronLionZion]

29. We only need enough moderates in enough swing states

to make a big difference. We may be able to get back some of the states Obama won, like PA and Michigan.

[ffr]

32. A lot of GOP supporters believe they are fighting the last fight for white supremacy.

It's a holy war against the inevitable, democracy. You are correct. They don't and won't go down lightly. This is the last fight for them. Corruption, subverting the constitution, demonizing and dehumanizing brown people, and on, none of that matters any more. Whatever it takes. And Fox Entertainment will be there with their daily dose of propaganda to help them along the way.

[47of74]

33. I've said for years that we need hard, pipe hitting liberals in government.

Not the milquetoast set that's afraid of their own shadows lest the Republicans are mean. Enough with the tolerant and understanding horseshit too. It's time to fight fire with fire and Republicans not liking that can go fornicate themselves.

[Hestia]

41. Well said. Agree 100% n/t

[ffr]

34. See DU post for more on fighting fire with fire.

House Democrats eye GOP playbook for Justice Department requests

[theophilus]

35. I disagree. Some will change. It won't take many. If he is still here and running

for re-election in 2020 and has more than 5% support we are in some deep shit, though.

[Progressive Jones]

36. The reason they are Trump supporters in the first place

is their moral and mental defectiveness.

I have a very low opinion of these wretches, and I won't mince words.
They will never change. They won't work with anyone that doesn't smell just like themselves. They're misfits, mopes, and malcontents, and always have been. They can't be trusted, and I want nothing to do with them.

Along came a character who is equally as sociopathic as themselves, and they will lick his boots all the way to the dead end.

[BlueIdaho]

42. Let's not forget the racists...

Many Trump humpers are overt racists. They may talk about his agenda but they like him because he hates minorities.

[lastlib]

43. If tRump supporters could be reasoned with, they wouldn't be tRump supporters.

It would take beatings with dimensional lumber to change these people's small minds about their dear leader. "We could fight them with conventional weapons; it could take years--cost millions of lives...." ("Animal House&quot I fully expect a long, bloody fight to ever overcome the wretched illogic of these failed humans who cannot accept the fact that their world isn't the only world in existence.

[yerop]

37. I have a niece who went from a W fan to new heroes Pelosi and Kamala Harris

so it's not impossible. I also think Sanders could peel off Trump voters. I know one real Trump cultist who simultaneously complains about how her landlord has too much power over renters. She might be open to AOC's words.

But I agree that exposing the Trump Crime Organization AKA the White House is the way to go.