My first impulse was to make this a very angry and indignant post about how betrayed

[Atticus]

some of us feel about the "Trump isn't worth it" decision by our party leadership. Basically, as I understand it, impeachment is once again "off the table" and only totally unrealistic and politically unsophisticated people think it should even be discussed.

OK, so this will be a sad post, not a mad post.

There is no longer a real thing called "impeachment". Just forget about that language in the U.S. Constitution and that nonsense about "checks and balances". We now know that that is all bullshit. We are now so far down the rabbit hole labelled "Whatever" that anyone foolish enough to say that we are a "nation of laws" is likely to be laughed at and branded that worst of all political animals: "idealist".

If what Donald Trump has done---to our democracy; to our allies; to each of us; our children; our grandchildren---does not rise to the level of impeachable offense, the term is meaningless. As long as the real PTB---the wealthiest .01% of us---have purchased a "Parliament of Whores" to replace the US Senate, we are absolved---so I'm told---from any responsibility for our continued slide into transparent in-your-face autocracy. We have only to keep repeating "It's no use" and history will judge us blameless.

So, really, excuse me all to hell for all those times I may have discussed impeachment as though it was an actual recognized alternative in our system for dealing with a monster in the White House.

That's all I've got.

[maryallen]

1. Well said ...

and sad.

[OrlandoDem2]

2. I trust Nancy. She is saying all the right things here.

Either way she’s right to wait on Mueller. A case must be made and for all the talk of Congressional inquiries, etc, the Mueller investigation will carry a lot of weight with most American people (left, middle and what’s left of the same right wing Never Trumpers). The Deplorables are a lost cause.

Meantime House Democrats must govern. She is playing this the right way. Trust her.

[Atticus]

4. If that makes you feel better, fine. As I said: "Whatever". nt

[shanny]

19. lol. House Democrats must govern?

You say that like a) they can do it all by themselves and b) they can't do two things at once.

[BeyondGeography]

27. It's mind numbing

We can’t impeach, because we need Republican votes. But we can govern without them.

[cilla4progress]

43. Bin

go

[Buckeyeblue]

61. Yes we can

We can pass smart legislation that the Repugs will refuse to pass to demonstrate what we stand for.

Look how that voting rights bill made the Repugs lose their shit. That's important legislation.

Impeachment without a chance to convict doesn't serve as a check and balance. It is merely a ceremony full of sound and fury, signifying nothing...

[democratisphere]

53. I am with you a quadrillion % on this one.

Nancy and the Dem leadership are doing exactly what they need to for now.

[Bradshaw3]

3. Very well put

None of us know the future so pretending to know what is the best way forward is nonsense. Maybe she is right but, as the OP said, good grief if we don't use impeachment (even if it's ultimately unlikely to result in a conviction) against this monster why even have it as an option.

[alwaysinasnit]

5. Even if that is truly what she thinks, Pelosi would have been better off just saying "she won't rule

it (impeachment) out."

[UniteFightBack]

6. Nancy is right. Do you really think impeachment would be successful at this time? It wouldn't

and this is a one shot musket. Be practical and realistic.

Another point someone else pointed out is Nancy said rump isn't worth impeaching...what is rump's response to that? Oh yes I am..I am worth it?

[Timewas]

18. Maybe not

BUT it would at least show the rest of the world that this country does in fact believe in the rule of law and that no man is above it... and it would also ogive the rethugs the chance to show where they stand on that for or against and make sure that it is called as it is "the law" in "the constitution"

sometimes you have to do the right thing even if it will fail...


she did the dame thing with bush the lessor when he broke a bunch of laws and shit all over our constitution

[crud]

21. I totally agree...but

maybe there are other ways to do that. Show the will of the congress, ask for his resignation. Demonstrate the reasons for impeachment and prosecute the case in the on and on going hearings, without a formal impeachment. Make it clear that there is no choice but to impeach, then maybe it will happen. What ever works best, crap.

[EarlG]

7. What he has done is impeachable

Republican Senators know this as well as you or I do, but they won’t convict him. The blame lies entirely at their feet.

So from a political standpoint, what is the use in impeaching Trump — which we could do — and then have Republican Senators vote to acquit him? He’d still be president, only now he has “won” the impeachment battle. He fought the Dems and won! He is emboldened, his base is emboldened, and Dems look weak because they weren’t able to force him out of office. Our base is disgruntled because Trump is still president. Who benefits from that scenario?

That is the status quo until or unless something happens that’s so bad even Senate Republicans would vote to convict him — in which case, impeachment would most definitely be on the table.

In the meantime, our strategy should be to make sure this weakened (and weakening), whining, self-pitying loser of a president just can’t get a win anywhere. Keep that up and he’ll be done in less than two years.

After that, the courts can have him.

[Blues Heron]

10. It's the second time she's taken the wind out of our sails

[EarlG]

15. I thought Bush should have been impeached

Last edited Mon Mar 11, 2019, 11:27 PM - Edit history (1)

I think he committed war crimes.

Trump should be impeached also for his numerous obvious crimes. But my overarching feeling is that no matter how it's done, he needs to be peacefully and small-d democratically removed from power as soon as possible.

That goal could be achieved more quickly by not impeaching Trump -- let him twist and turn as his losses mount and his base wanes, and fatally wound his re-election chances.

The reason it could be achieved more quickly is that the alternative -- remove him from office through impeachment now -- cannot currently be achieved at all. We can impeach him, but the Senate will block it and he will remain president. Mission not accomplished.

So I don't disagree with Pelosi's strategy (at this time).

[DallasNE]

35. Stepping Back, It's Pretty Obvious

That Pelosi is doing the right thing. Failure to convict in the Senate would reinforce the witch Hunt charge, never mind that the verdict is a political decision rather than evidence based. That would be the worst possible outcome. What is going on in Florida could topple him anyway

[FiveGoodMen]

75. After the failure to convict Bill Clinton in the Senate, the GOP completely fell apart ... remember?

I'll bet THEY were sorry!!!

[BlueWI]

79. And less than two years later, they were in the White House.

Both the Gore and Hillary Clinton campaigns were hobbled by the revelations in the impeachment process and trial. The legacy of the Clinton presidency is still tarnished today.

This could happen easily to Trump during an impeachment trial and thorough vetting of the evidence. But "scared to lose" is the mantra it seems for a lot of Democrats. Protect your flank and hope it blows over in 2020. It better!

[Mr Tibbs]

64. I concur with this

The courts will eventually cook him. He already faces felony charges as "Individual 1" and his 501(c)(3) charity being used as a slush fund/family piggy bank has a few felonies in there too, and Mueller has just started warming up.

They need to prosecute while he's in office, memo from 1972 be damned

[DallasNE]

78. Different Law/Regulation In Place In 1972

Also, Ken Starr later opined that a sitting President could be indicted so wouldn't the latest memo on the subject be the operational one? Indeed, the Paula Jones case was prosecuted while Clinton was President. Plus, isn't the 1972 memo a Republican talking point with little current merit.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

81. I didn't realize until last night when they showed a clip of pelosi back in bush era. She was

Against impeachment then. So basically she is always against impeachment. I don’t understand how one person gets to decide?

[Atticus]

16. I am aware of all the arguments against impeachment. They are not necessarily wrong,

Last edited Mon Mar 11, 2019, 11:45 PM - Edit history (1)

but, imo, they are not enough. They amount to a list of excuses for not doing what we know is our duty under the constitution and laws of the United States.

I know, believe me, that my opinion is not popular among "serious" political thinkers. I just happen to believe that there are some fights that should---MUST---be fought even if a favorable outcome seems impossible. Things happen. Opinions can change and standing before the TV audience and casting a vote that says ""I think having a crminal in the White House is totally fine" may prove a bridge too far for more Republicans than we can now imagine.

And, speaking of Republican senators, I think more than a couple are wearing big smiles, thankful that they are now shielded from the possibility of having to publicly sit in judgment of the man who leads their party and who they privately disparage.

[EarlG]

22. Everything I've seen so far leads me to believe that Senate Republicans will not bail on Trump

But if the general public is persuaded that impeachment is deserved, then it doesn't matter if they bail or not. If we impeach and the Senate convicts (unlikely) then we win. But even if they acquit it doesn't matter, because he would already be guilty in the court of public opinion and his re-election chances would be doomed. So either way, we win. As a bonus, GOP Senators who let him off the hook would look really bad.

If the general public isn't persuaded that impeachment is deserved and we impeach anyway, then Republican Senators will feel no pressure to bail, they'll acquit, and Trump will claim victory.

Impeachment is a political tool, so it makes sense that the will of the people is required in order to wield it properly.

So really it comes down to has the general public been persuaded that impeachment is deserved?

Perhaps that's where our difference of opinion lies. I'm not convinced yet that they are convinced.

However, as the year goes on, more and more evidence is going to come out and as you say, opinions can change.

[Atticus]

32. I have never insisted that Trump be impeached NOW, despite the fact there are several crimes

he is now known to have committed. My primary problem with the Speaker's statement is that I think she has actually closed the door. I can't imagine ANYTHING that the Mueller report may reveal that will GUARANTEE a conviction in the Senate if he's impeached by the House. And, as I read her, that's what Nancy wants: a guarantee.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

37. the Speaker cannot impeach the President

from the point of view of removing him. That requires votes and as has been stated, the R's show no sign of holding him accountable. Therefore, it would be a waste of time and effort,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[GaYellowDawg]

29. Atticus, I completely agree with you.

I would only add that I think the political calculus has been way off. I always thought the backlash to the Clinton impeachment was that it was such a trivial and purely political use of impeachment. I don’t think there would be the kind of backlash to a Trump impeachment that is surmised because of the severity of the offenses.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

82. Agree completely. Politics aside...do the right thing. Heard last night that one advantage

Is that it would put constraints on him. If he’s called out for a particular behavior then he may tend to stop doing it. I like that it consolidates all his crimes. It combats his winning strategy of doing a new bad thing today so people forget yesterday.

But hell, by the time we get to impeaching the election will be upon us. And we will have done nothing except hearings no one is hearing.

[Cha]

45. I agree. Hell, we all want him

gone and humiliated for the crimes he's committed, right out in the open, and behind closed doors.

But, we need it to stick.. shockingly I trust Nancy Pelosi's knowledge and experience to know what she's doing.

Mahalo, EarlG.

[pnwmom]

55. Well said. Thanks, EarlG!

[marylandblue]

8. The powers that be would happily impeach him, but

they are scared of the brain washed base they have created. They were under control for a long time, but then they broke out and took over.

"Checks and balances" was always just an 18th century political theory. No empirical evidence it works, in fact there's evidence it does not. The real checks and balances were the unwritten norms of political behavior that we all took for granted, but have been eroding since the 1990s.

Donald Trump did not do anything to our democracy, our weakening democracy gave us Donald Trump.

[defacto7]

48. I do so agree with you. well said.

[manor321]

9. Nancy really screwed this up. She's 100% wrong.

[onetexan]

12. I dont think so

She knows how hard it would be to get this horrible guy impeached, and that its easier to vote him out of office considering its less than 2 years away, AND that once he's gone he will face the long arm of the law, regardless of what Mueller finds. He would face SDNY, which he has no protrctions against. I feel the same anger as you, but i trust that our Madame Speaker knows what we are up against if we put up this extremely hard fight which, without 2/3rds majority we cant get the Idiot impeached.

[MontanaMama]

34. I disagree. Nancy knows WAY more than we do.

She’s setting the stage for whatever comes next. Impeachment without conviction will do nothing but embolden MF45 and his minions in 2020. If he beats impeachment, he will enter the 2020 race like a fucking rock star. We must play the long game. Nancy knows that. Her statement that he “isn’t worth it” was strategic...no mistake about it.

[defacto7]

51. Think of the end game. What do we really want?

We want Trump down, we want him out, done, finished and convicted. If impeachment would accomplish this, great. If impeachment is just to make us feel like we are accomplishing something and in the process impeded progress, then no.

No one would know the mind of both sides of congress like Nancy Pelosi and I'm honored and relieved that she's calling the shots.

[vapor2]

11. Don't despair

Pelosi is surely not stupid and did leave an "out" in her comment. I was bewildered at first but the evidence will present the outcome of this moron. I am also optimistic that the SDNY will indict (a sitting president).

[TDale313]

13. She should have just stayed neutral.

Her comment was not neutral. It was it’s too divisive and Trump’s not worth it. But it’s not about him. It’s about the rule of law and sending a clear message to those who follow that this will not be tolerated. Whatever her intent was, she demoralized a big chunk of her base with these comments. This was a huge mistake.

[pnwmom]

24. It sounded neutral to me. She said that she's not for impeachment

UNLESS there is compelling and overwhelming evidence so there would be bipartisan support. She's not deciding the issue before the evidence is in.

Unlike Nancy, I don't have to be neutral. And I suspect the evidence, when the committees and Mueller have legally produced it, will be so compelling and overwhelming that either (1) impeachment will have bipartisan support, or (2) the R party will be digging its own grave for the 2020 election.

[dalton99a]

54. +1. She should have said 'no comment'

[Bettie]

70. Yep. She could have said

this isn't the time to talk about this.

Instead, she made it clear that she's OK with him getting away with everything.

Yay team.

[notdarkyet]

57. Agree with you and Atticus.

[apcalc]

14. I trust her judgement. When the time is right she will strike.

Right now , is not the time. She knows what she is doing:

[Atticus]

17. She did not say "It's not the right time". She said "He's not worth it". nt

[apcalc]

72. Unless there is something compelling and bipartisan, she said.

She knows there most likely will be.

[watoos]

20. My Ford, we all need to take a hit of soma,

I am in the camp for impeachment but Speaker Pelosi disagrees. So be it, I disagree with her but soundly support her. We all need to chill and stay united. The only way we lose in 2020 is if we fight among ourselves.

[spike91nz]

23. Well said

Agree. We must demonstrate our commitment to decisive actions to remain hopeful that justice matters, that the constitution matters, that corruption of democracy matters or else we become passively complicit in the extinguishing the light.

[ancianita]

25. This is about Pelosi's saying the 1st Branch can't remove him, so it's up to Mueller & SCOTUS.

That's it. Impeachment won't happen in a highly partisan congress.

And so it will be up to Mueller to indict. At that point ...

If 45 cannot be removed for treason or high crimes and misdemeanors

-- with a preponderance of criminal evidence,
-- by proof of harm to the Constitution and rule of law,
-- by proofs that a partisan majority has obstructed justice by breaking their oaths of office,

then The People will have to vote him out in 2020.

That's all she's saying.

[littlemissmartypants]

26. I remember the day it happened to me.

The day I realized that impeachment wasn't going to be the option. It was a sad day.

[nini]

28. Impeachment is still an option in this country

But only if a certain political party puts the country before their party and are not part of the crimes themselves.

A long as that traitor McConnell is in there the Senate will not do the right thing. McConnell is keeping this country from saving itself.

[Toorich]

30. Let me see if I have this correct....

.... every house Committee and Sub-committee is investigating tRump crimes.
A Special Prosecutor is investigating tRump crimes.
The Southern District of New York is investigating tRump crimes.
The State of New York is investigating tRump crimes.

None of them have finished with their investigating.

It would be stupid, that is to say VERY stupid to pick this apple
before it is ripe.

[redstateblues]

31. Impeachment with no conviction in the Senate equals more years of Trump

[MontanaMama]

36. No doubt about it.

If he were impeached and not convicted, his base would rally around him like nothing we’ve seen before. Nancy is sticking it to him with precision and subtlety.

[Niagara]

52. Exactly this! n/t

[vlyons]

33. We need 20 more votes in the Senate

where shall we find them? They are not there. Yes impeachment would probably pass in the house. But then what? Republican led senate would not convict. So rather than waste time in a futile exercise, why don't we focus on electing Dems in 2020?

[FakeNoose]

41. Our goal is to elect more Democrats to the Senate next year

... or even better, elect a Democrat to the White House. If we can do either of those things, Chump is done like one of his overcooked steaks. If we can't do either of those things, impeachment will never happen.

Meanwhile the House Committees will lay down as much pressure as they can to keep Chump and the Repukes preoccupied. We have to get to work and do our share - flip the Senate in 2020!

[Whiskeytide]

38. First of all, it's not just ...

... the monster in the White House. There are monsters everywhere - especially in the Senate.
All constitutional solutions to trump - including and perhaps especially impeachment- generally assume a functioning government with elected and appointed officials loyal to the US. That is decidedly NOT the case here. Impeachment will not remove him. Period.

Impeachment with no realistic hope of conviction and removal becomes impeachment for political reasons alone. You can call it principle, or our duty - but it would be a political statement and little more. And - it would be a dog and pony show in the media, and ultimately a colossal failure by democrats. His acquittal in the Senate would be a catastrophe. Simply put - IT WOULD HELP TRUMP and the GOP! It would boost their re-election, and it would give them the ultimate victory to crow about. And it would be a gut punch to Dems nationwide, squandering much of our 2020 momentum.

I respect and admire your posts, Atticus. You’re one of my favorites. But I genuinely believe that taking the position that we should file impeachment papers because it’s the right thing to do, because we have a duty to do it, and it doesn’t matter if it ultimately helps trump and his ilk get re-elected because our conscious will be clear - - that’s the equivilent of a purity test for party leadership in general. I just can’t go there. Too much is at stake in 2020.

I say beat him - and his minions - in 2020, then feed them to a pack of starving hyenas.

[Atticus]

42. Thanks for your kind words. As mentioned elsewhere, I have never insisted that we

impeach NOW. My problem with what the Speaker said is that I don't think ANYTHING the Mueller report might reveal will be enough, in her view, to impeach. I understand that her remarks could be interpreted as leaving the possibility open if circumstances warrant, but I think she has closed the impeachment door.

[Whiskeytide]

63. I understand that. I would not have worded it ...

... the way she did. But she may have reasons that are not yet apparent. It could be as simple as keeping him a little off guard. She may be playing to trump’s ego, or she may not want to impact current investigations. Or, she might genuinely feel the impeachment process is broken and can’t be applied here. I don’t know.

[patphil]

39. Unfortunately, Nancy Pelosi is right

I know it's hard to accept this, but the reality of the situation is that impeachment is not the path we can pursue to end the Trump nightmare. Not now, and perhaps not at all during his term as president.
Yes, the Democrats can put forth a bill of impeachment and send it on to the Senate for action. But, it would take at least 20 Republican Senators to agree to remove Trump from office...not going to happen. I doubt if we would get one.
In the meantime it would give Trump and his rabid supporters a forum to ratchet up the hate-filled rhetoric and further polarize this country.
There is no political or social upside to this, and it will greatly detract from the legitimate hearings and investigations that the Democrats are now pursuing in the House of Representatives.
The rule of law will be served, but it's going to be a long drawn-out process.
I believe it can be seen as the "death of a thousand cuts".
The Republicans are, of course, stupid in this matter.
They should have impeached Trump and removed him last year when they controlled the Congress. Pence would now be president, and all of the investigations would have ended.
As it is, the widespread, systemic, corruption of the Republican party is beginning to be exposed. This is not just Trump and his people, but literally dozens of Republican Senators and Representatives who have been taking dirty money from several sources outside this country.
First it was the Russians, and then Saudi Arabia, and now we see how the Chinese are involved.
The taint from the Trump criminal organization is spreading, and it's getting more and more apparent to the citizenry.
Set your sights on the prize; the 2020 elections.
We need to save the Republic!
The next president must be a Democrat. Also, we must gain a bunch of Senate seats...at least 7 or 8.
The impossible dream of impeachment can not be realized unless the Republicans are fully engaged in the process.
And, at this time, that's not going to happen.

Pat Phillips

[DinahMoeHum]

40. I heard Rick Wilson just now on MSNBC. . .

. . .saying that Pelosi has a very valid point - the math is just not there in the Senate right now for conviction and removal after impeachment.

He feels it's better to bleed Trump and the GOP with thousands of cuts, through everybody else around him being investigated, going to prison, getting voted out of office (including him) from now until the end of 2020. 'Cause when he steps out of the WH come January 2021 after being ignominiously defeated and denied a 2nd term. . .BANG !!! BUSTED!!!. . .On to the SDNY to answer for what he's done.



P.S. There will likely be a YouTube on this interview in a matter of hours.

[Cosmocat]

65. He's right

nm

[dlk]

44. I Trust Nancy Pelosi - She's a Savvy Politician - I Also Agree With Her

Trump is on his way down, albeit not nearly fast enough. He is far too corrupt and there are too many investigations for him to slip through the cracks. His days of freedom are numbered and he knows it. If Trump were to be impeached in the house and the Republican-controlled Senate didn't vote to convict, I'm afraid it would only make matters and Trump much worse.

[grantcart]

46. You totally missed it.

Pelosi isn't saying Impeachment is off the table

She is saying that we are going to drag Trump through the mud establishing the facts in concrete with clarity. An impeachment of a thousand cuts until Eve the Republicans will be begging for it.

[redstateblues]

47. I'm with Nancy

[PatrickforO]

49. I'm impatient too.

I want change now.

We race with time, a species of lemmings running at breakneck speed toward extinction.

How much longer can we afford to play a 'long game?' Do you wonder?

Yes, the GOP still controls the Senate and the White House. But it isn't really the GOP any more, you know? It is little more than a criminal gang, controlled by bigger bosses. It is the party of Trump. Its rank and file have forgotten how to be Americans, and instead put party first, and that party is corporate-owned, beholden to oligarchs, a tool of billionaires.

Heard of 'iron triangles?' The Panama Papers? We've been the victims since the days of Nixon of the most massive transfer of wealth in the history of humankind. Away from the many and to the few.

Rank and file, theirs and ours, have been played like so many violins with the age-old 'divide and conquer' strategy. Works every time.

Sometimes at night, I lay awake and wonder what will come. Will we ever grow up as a species and begin planning around human need and not human greed? Will we learn to plan generations ahead to preserve and replenish our earth? Or will we, like the lemmings, run headlong to our deaths over the cliff of capitalism and crash to a bloody death on the teeth of oligarchs?

[MontanaFarmer]

58. Your final paragraph resonated with me

I often feel the same way. Can we as a species, someday, become smart enough to save ourselves from ourselves? The robbery of our citizens, and of our earth, by those forces in that upper-crust, trans-national "oligarchy" is ongoing, brutal, and thorough. Meanwhile, we worry about the trivial, the battle between our own factions, and the serious (keeping ourselves and our families alive and thriving in this mess). I fear we know the answer to your question, and that answer bodes poorly for "our" future. The wealthiest will be here, no matter what, adding to their own piles while Rome burns, but i fear the collective "we" may no longer possess the ability or desire to emerge from the situation we find ourselves in. Good post, thought-provoking.

[Locrian]

74. more and more I see...

that the only way "out" is to maintain your integrity and DO THE RIGHT THING.
And take your hits from it but also take the wins.

Not "play the long game" or "keep your powder dry" or any of the other deals with the devil.
It is way past time to actually do the right thing vs the safe or political thing.

With the looming very real possibility of extinction - there is no safe space anymore. And when it's all done - I'd rather have tried and failed then done nothing.

[fantase56]

50. K&R....

I've been thinking this for so long. If not now when? If not for these crimes, then what? If these circumstances don't rise to the level of impeachable crimes, then what is our benchmark?

[PufPuf23]

56. This is my opinion and I have been a loyal never but a Democratic voter since 1971.

Pelosi erred when she took impeachment off the table for GWB an she has erred in similar fashion again.

Even if her opinion in both cases was that impeachment was a bad idea in each vase, she should not have voiced that opinion as it is probably a minority opinion among loyal members of the Democratic party.

IMO Pelosi has been a poor person for the job as majority Speaker of House in both cases because she did not support nor seek impeachment and was an impediment to such efforts.

I don't believe myself to be an unrealistic nor politically naïve person.

You are descriptive here Atticus, "There is no longer a real thing called "impeachment". Just forget about that language in the U.S. Constitution and that nonsense about "checks and balances". We now know that that is all bullshit. We are now so far down the rabbit hole labelled "Whatever" that anyone foolish enough to say that we are a "nation of laws" is likely to be laughed at and branded that worst of all political animals: "idealist"."

The damage is allowed and multiplies over time with no recourse. The political class protects its own (and their sponsors).

[Meowmee]

59. I'm not sure what to think

If she had just said no comment or the math is not there ok. But I agree what she said is bad, he is not worth it, it is too divisive is bs. Wtf, it is too much on so many levels. His crimes, his insanity etc. it sends a terrible message to just let it all go, and there is no guarantee of voting him out. At what point will someone do something? When he goes completely crazy etc? Is it not devisive to leave this non mentally fit criminal wannabe dictator in power to continue his destruction and division?

[MFM008]

60. He should be impeached

Even if only in the house.
Let that stand in history books.

[RichardRay]

62. Do you want to feel good,

or do you want to win.

Personally, I’d rather have a long run victory, and it would be tough to get that through impeachment. Short of Putin putting a signed op-Ed in the NYT and Breitbart admitting to all charges and directly implicating DJT, with documentation, I don’t see the kind of support required to impeach without a serious national schism.

[Cosmocat]

66. The term is meaningless now

yet something else republicans have broken ...

I hate it, with every fiber of my body, because my core personal foundation is responsibility, and as the OP notes, if this POS does not rise to the level of impeachment, then ...

But, the world we live in is one where this country relentless indulges right wing fuck wittery. So, republican good, democrat bad. Impeachment is the most important thing in our country's history because of a POTUS lying about a blow job! from the same scumbags who are russia, china and everything else dirty like this scumbag.

SO ... LOCK HER UP! for nothing, but, poor Trumpy Bear is a victim of haters!

Republicans drive the political discourse, and as most have noted, no chance, that a single R in congress will vote for impeachment, and when it dies in the senate, 2020 would end with 45 POTUS and Rs with massive gains in congress, and the US will be no more.

Its sad, but the best we can do is what NP is advocating for - expose the endless corruption, and treason in the House hearings, wait for the Mueller investigation to play out, focus 100% on getting our nominee and beat the POS in November 2020, get through the chaos that will result because of that, hopefully clear that with some form of a functioning democracy, and if there is a god the wheels of justice will deal with him and his clan.

Then, try to stem back the next wave of conservative lunacy.

[MoonRiver]

67. Damn straight!

However, I'd like to add that impeachment is only off the table until there's a Dem president in 2021. At that point Repukes will be screaming for impeachment on day one, and never let up. My belief is we'll control both House and Senate at that point so their tantrums won't make any difference, but they'll still keep trying.

[Vinca]

68. She left the door open. In fact, I think she did Democrats a favor by taking all the

"will you vote to impeach" questions off the table for so many Democrats appearing on news shows. Republicans are already verklempt about her pronouncement. Their plan was to run on victimhood and how poor Don is pure as the driven snow and Democrats want to overturn the election, yada, yada, yada. Nancy's been very wise in dealing with the orange idiot so far, so we ought to give her some slack.

[Bettie]

69. Perfectly stated

I guess Idealism and Principles are not things we're supposed to have anymore.

And impeachment isn't a thing for Republicans anymore, though I'm certain it will be a thing to be used against Democrats.

Thanks for putting it into better words than I could.

[WeekiWater]

71. I believe this to be an overreaction.

Pelosi isn't currently going forward with impeachment. That says nothing about the coming months. We just started investigations in the house. We literally just started them. Impeachment is also being talked about often. Rank and file are doing their job of making people more comfortable with the idea. Because you think something doesn't mean everyone else does. Then there is the Mueller Report. We have invested heavily in the image that it will be a part of the vehicle for impeachment.

[Kurt V.]

77. i can't understand why she even said it.

[WeekiWater]

80. Because it is being brought up often and she is the leader. NT

[Toorich]

73. Not trying to hijack the thread....

.... just want to offer that the next President (Democrat) had better not consider a pardon
for the orange one.

[FiveGoodMen]

76. We'll have to be careful in the primaries, then!