He's Already Being Punished ...

[NanceGreggs]

… just not enough, and not nearly as much as he will be.

When Donald Trump entered the White House, he did so as man with a reputation – mostly self-promoted and fabricated, but a reputation nonetheless.

He was known as a real estate genius, a self-made man who built a multi-billion dollar empire out of a million-dollar loan from his dad – which he promptly repaid.

He was known as a shrewd businessman, who could out-negotiate all comers and outsmart anyone in the boardroom.

He was known as a ladies’ man, the center of attention at parties and social events, where he hob-knobbed with the cream of society while fending off the attentions of women who found his sexual charisma absolutely irresistible.

He was known as a best-selling author, and the founder of a “university” where he generously shared his business acumen with those inspired by his incredible financial success.

He was known as a philanthropist, having established a charitable foundation, the funds of which would be disbursed to deserving causes.

He was known as an intellectual giant with an above-average IQ, who’d graduated at the top of every educational institute he’d ever attended.

He was known as a brave, modern-day warrior, willing to face any and all foes with knight-like courage.

This is the man Trump sold to what became his “base”, and this is the image they bought. More importantly, this is the man the vast majority of the country believed him to be – simply because they had no reason to doubt his own telling of the tale. A candidate for the presidency would never tell lies that could easily be disproven – right? That would just be dumb.

So where is he now?

His self-made man image was decimated when it was learned that “the pResident” had received millions from his father before he turned eighteen. The self-made-man has been exposed as just another daddy’s-money-made-man.

His “best negotiator in the world” claim has been debunked for all time. We all watched as “the pResident” walked away from his summits with Kim Jong-Un with nothing, while Jung-Un walked away with a lot of what he wanted. In fact, he couldn’t even “negotiate” his own party into passing his wall funding when they were in a perfect position to do so.

The ladies’ man persona was shot to hell the minute we heard “the pResident’s” porn star one-nighter describe his “small, mushroom-like penis” – and his willingness to pay for her silence tells you all you need to know. As for hob-knobbing with the society’s elite, it makes you wonder why the only “friends” Trump has appointed to his cabinet and other positions of power are corrupt criminals, many of whom are already indicted and looking at jail time.

Now that he is “pResident”, Trump’s ghost writers have come forward to explain how he never wrote those “best-sellers”, and probably never even read them. “Trump University” was deemed a scam by a New York court, and had to pay a $25-million dollar fine as a result of that determination.

A philanthropist? The “pResident’s” charity was recently cited by a judge as being yet another scam, rife with corruption. And now the world knows that Trump’s idea of “charity” is using other people’s money to buy portraits of himself.

The “intellectual giant” meme crumbled when it was revealed that “the pResident” threatened all of his previous schools with lawsuits if they published his test scores. Now, what stable genius wouldn’t want his amazing academic record sung from the hilltops? What stable genius wouldn’t have foreseen that attempting to cover-up his academic achievements would be confirmation of just how poor they were?

The brave warrior façade was flushed down the toilet when “the pResident” refused to meet with Mueller. Suddenly Mr. Outwit-Outplay-Outlast became a whinging victim, terrified of being trapped by his own lies.

So what’s left of the man who would be pResident? Only this: a snivelling coward whose every claim to fame has now been exposed as a fantasy that existed only in his own mind; a liar, a narcissist, a thin-skinned idiot whose abject stupidity is the punchline to every late-night show monologue; a lazy tub-o’-lard who’s been shown to be a tool of our enemies and an all-around sucker.

Had Donald Trump never been elected “pResident”, his self-created reputation may never have been revealed as the “fake news” it’s actually always been. Had Donald Trump not been arrogant enough to seek the presidency, and delusional enough to believe he could escape the scrutiny being in that position would inevitably bring, he’d be golfing at Mara-La-Go 24/7 without a care in the world, still living the good life thanks to the proceeds of his scams, still basking in the glorious reputation he’d spent decades cultivating.

There isn’t a doubt in my mind that Trump is suffering from the knowledge that he is the author of his own misfortune – that he doesn’t look back to the days when he was still known as all the things he pretended to be, rather than who is now known to be.

As Mueller’s noose tightens around his flabby neck, as he watches his former friends tell all to investigative teams, as his once-loyal party members look to cover their own asses rather than his, Trump can’t help but realize that were it not for his own doing, his ultimate undoing would not be so inevitable.

Is his inner turmoil and fear enough punishment for what he’s done to our nation? Not by a long shot – but it’s a start. Trump knows better than anyone on earth exactly what’s out there for Mueller and the House Democrats to find – and he knows that if he’d just kept his own ego in check, he wouldn’t be facing the annihilation of his “brand”, the exposure of his corruption, and the spectre of he and his family winding up in prison.

It’s the thought that Trump knows he’s facing his own ultimate destruction that keeps me sane in the face of the insanity that is the Trump “presidency”.

I sleep peacefully knowing that this monster can’t – and probably never will again.

[Mr.Bill]

1. I've seeen him as a fake and a phony

since the early 70s. And not because I did any large amount of research or investigation. Even when he was actually quite liberal and a Democrat, he stunk like rotten fish. I have not been surprised by anything that has been revealed about him in the last three or so years.

It astounds me that even one percent of the population can't see this.
The man is a huge load of bullshit, always has been. I'll be he was this way when he was ten years old.

[BigmanPigman]

3. New Yorkers were onto him way back when.

So were the teachers and kids he grew up with. He is a bad seed....rotten to the core since he was born.

[Mr.Bill]

4. And yet I noticed it way out here on the west coast.

Let me tell you, Silicon Valley was pretty full of bullshit when I lived there, too. Don't ever vote for any of those clowns.

[mgardener]

22. I've seen him as a ...

Liar, cheat and thief.

Only those who did not pay attention saw him as a success.
He went bankrupt 4 times, how could you see him as a successful business man?


He is despicable.

[Jim_Pridx]

33. Yeap, same here,

I could see through his bullshit from the very first day I heard about him.

[MyOwnPeace]

2. OK, Nance.........

I don't know how many times I've posted a response to your own writings, but I do know that many of those posts have said "Best One Ever!"

I'm sorry, but I have to take those back.

This is, by GAWD, the most fantastic, realistic, "here's the real shit" post you've EVER done (well, until the next one.....)!

[RobertDevereaux]

7. Yes indeed...

A double home run...

[Honeycombe8]

5. He won't be destroyed.

He shuffles money around, owns multiple luxury properties and golf courses around the world. He still has connections in real estate...they don't care about his reputation, because they've known for years what he is. But if he can help them make money, that's all that matters.

Unless he's impeached, he'll leave with the "former President" moniker, which makes him even more desired in social situations. He'll still be invited to dine in Saudi Arabia and Russia, across the United States. He'll be in photos among the exclusive group call "living former Presidents." He'll write a book (via a ghost writer) about his experience in the White House, and the Witch Hunt.

His children will continue to make their millions and fly around in private jets.

He and his family will get Secret Service detail for life, at the U.S. taxpayer's cost of multiple millions every year.

He'll be invited to give speeches, for which he can charge a premium, since he will be a former President.

He will have "the best" Trump monument built, glorifying his Trumpness. All Presidents build a library or think tank or something, to house papers and things of interest from their administration.

He has all that he cares about: even more fame, even more money, even more name recognition, even more clout.

If he's not impeached. But even if he is, he travels in circles of people who are like him. They don't care, as long as you have power and money.

He may get fined for tax evasion. Did he money launder? I think others did that for him, and he kept a distance. Conspiring with Russia? We know he did. But proof is another thing. As the boss, he was careful to have his lackeys do the work, make the contacts, while he stayed in the background. Even if he conspired, will he be charged with anything? I doubt it. He'll be a former President.

What will get to him most...is if his tax returns are released, and everyone finds out how much he exaggerated about his wealth. Even that will pass, as he tells some lie about it, and his followers, as always, believe.

The important thing is that he's caught for what he's done. If the evidence is there. And if the powers that be do something about it.

[dalton99a]

11. +1. I don't think the asshole is capable of introspection, shame, guilt, or regret.

[SharonAnn]

13. I agree.

[Honeycombe8]

39. He doesn't. He's like a mob boss. He's proud he can do what is necessary to win.

He has said in interviews before that there are two kinds of people in the world: Those who have what it takes to win, and those who don't. He's the former. You're talking about someone who has money but doesn't give much to charity. Who created a charitable foundation for him to use as his personal bank, including paying the false price of millions of $$$ for a super large painting of himself. If he didn't have a conscience about all that money not being spent on the worthy charitable causes instead of a painting of himself for millions of $$$, then he doesn't have a conscience in the way that normal people do.

These mega rich guys live in a world that the rest of us do not. Many of them are dirty. They don't regard being dirty as anything to be ashamed of. It's only the little people who don't understand that's how the world works. There's a line, I'm sure. Where the line is, I don't know.

Remember Claus Von Bulow? He was absolved of his wife's murder, but the country's consensus pretty much was that he was guilty. That certainly was the opinion of her children.

But after the trial and appeal, and a book about him, he became the toast of the town. He was invited to all the A-list parties, where he attended in black-and-whites and expensive cars. He was rich and famous. The fact that many of them no doubt thought he'd murdered his wife was inconsequential, or maybe made him seem a little exciting. He got married. He had a fine life.

[dalton99a]

41. Great example - he's still alive

And in recent years, Robert Durst - who almost got away with killing three people

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

23. Hate to admit it...

But I’m starting to get the same feeling, your words are the same as my wife’s. I guess we will all hold our own fantasies of his punishment probably none will satisfy all. I get this sick churning rage full feeling thinking that man will just walk away, smiling, chortling with his compatriots on how they got away with the biggest swindle perpetrated in the history of world politics.

[Ligyron]

29. We thought GW Shrub would end up in jail too.

Surely, after lying us into a war that killed thousands, many of them American, he would be brought to some kind of Justice. Nope, not even one of the neo-cons who were largely responsible for this disaster - the results of which we and the rest of the world are still paying for. Well, Scooter on a side issue that endangered a patriotic agent and her family's life but even this fall guy was released and I doubt he lacks for anything that money can buy for being a such a trooper.

But maybe it will be different this time if enough good people can be put into the position to DO something. That takes getting enough good Democrats elected into office and not just in Congress but Statehouses and even right down to school boards.

That takes money and mainlyconvincing enough citizens that the GOP is not the friend of the average American.

Tough lift, but it can be done,

[Perseus]

32. It would only have taken guts from an Attorney General

Vincent Bugliosi (RIP), wrote a book titled "The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder". In that book he laid out the blueprint that any Attorney General could have used to prosecute, not only GW, but all the cronies including Chaney, Rice, Rumsfeld, etc. but not one AG took the blueprint and acted to do the right thing. If you like law, that book is a must read.

Vincent Bugliosi was the lawyer who put Charles Manson in jail for life, and he pretty much used the same laws in that book, backed with the justifications ready to be submitted to a judge to begin indictments, but unfortunately not one AG took on it.

I believe Obama with his "move forward" crap was in part responsible for the lack of investigation. The problem with "moving forward" is that today they do something horrible, they get away with it, tomorrow they try something twice as horrible and if they get away with it they continue to do worst to challenge the system and see how far they can go. The fact that most of these people do not have a conscience and cannot see consequences, the moving forward is an open door to continue the corruption. As much as I like Obama, and miss him, that was a the worst decision he made, I strongly believe the crooks needed to be outed, whether you believe in conspiracies or not, the truth of 9/11 will never be known because we "moved forward".

[Ligyron]

52. Yup, the only ones "moving forward" now is the GOP.

And they hit the ground running. They pretty much acted with impunity once was Trump was in for the reasons you stated - especially when it came to robbing and enriching themselves. If the heat was put on them as with a couple of cabinet secretaries (thanks press) meh, they just resigned and laughed all the way to the bank. So far.

With a less lame and compliant Congress things become a little better.

[Honeycombe8]

38. For Shrub, the problem would have been proving HE had direct knowledge...

of false information that was so key, but for that information, the Iraq War would not have been entered into. I never thought there was any basis for impeachment or indictment of him. I'm not even sure to what extent he knew which information was false. Because I think Cheney was lying to him and had his own loyalists.

At least Bush did not pardon Scooter. Once Bush found out that Cheney had lied to him about his part in the release of the identity of the CIA agent, I think they never spoke again to any extent. Bush froze him out, then refused to pardon Scooter (who I think was taking the fall for Cheney).

I think that there is nothing of importance that goes on in the Trump administration that Trump doesn't know about or approve of, at least in concept. Not so with the Bush administration, IMO. A lot of people were of the opinion that Cheney was running things. I remember later on a reporter asking him at a press conference (remember press conferences?), "Who makes the decisions?" Bush said quickly and firmly and somewhat irritated, "I do." This was near the turning point, as I recall, that Bush started taking a more hands on approach, after realizing he was being played like a fiddle.

Bush was not very smart, and worse, not very savvy, IMO. But Cheney was.

[Ligyron]

53. Yeah, I suppose you're right about Bush come to think of it.

But ultimately, the President is still responsible for his subordinates. I think Shrub was just happy to let others do the thinking. Cheney was the real villain and still he suffers no punishment.

I was thinking we were lucky there isn't a Cheney in the Trump Admin (well Bolton) or we'd have attacked North Korea by now. But Trump is too egotistical and control freak to let someone else call the shots. Unless they could trick him into thinking it was HIS idea.

Unfortunately, there's still time.

[NanceGreggs]

48. You seem to be forgetting ...

... that the man is currently the target of 17 investigations, and there are more underway. Chances are a lot of his "fortune" will be forfeit when all is said and done.

The people he once did business with may be as sleazy as he is. But they have no reason to do business with him in future - simply because they know that every transaction he is involved with from here on in will be gone over with a fine-tooth comb by regulators and the IRS.

They also see him as a loser because he was dumb enough to draw attention to his business dealings by being "elected". Mob bosses don't get involved with people who are too stupid to operate under the radar. There's plenty of dirty money in the real estate biz - no need to deal with someone the gov't is already investigating.

His "followers" aren't the people he does business with. Whether they believe his lies in future is of no consequence whatsoever.

The NY real estate business is known as a hotbed of corruption - but the successful criminals know how to keep things on the down-low - just as Trump did his entire career. But his "cover" is now blown.

[Honeycombe8]

49. He'll be fine financially.

He has money coming in. Eventually, his legal expenses will be gone, and his money will start to pile up, again. He will continue to make deals. Depending on the constraints on him and whether he's held criminally responsible for anything, he can still get loans. He may have to pay a higher interest rate because of the risk, but don't forget that he was able to get loans before, after filing for bankruptcy multiple times.

The one thing that may hold him back is that people will be leery to do business with him because they will think he's being watched. None of those wheelers & dealers want to be recorded by the FBI.

He could still get the Moscow Hotel, if he has the money.

Each member of the family is wealthy, and the Trump Organization separately has money.

I would hope that he's ruined, but I fear that he'll ride off in the sunset with the cache of having been "the best President the United States has ever had!"

Some of the charges will go away. The governor of Louisiana was imprisoned for racketeering. That seems to work, if they have that on Trump. But...make no mistake. Gov Edwards got out of prison and was still immensely popular, with a lot of connections and power, and tried to get a full pardon so he could run AGAIN for Governor. He may well have won, but he couldn't get the pardon.

But I do hope he's held accountable,and I hope the proof is there. But his reputation and business and connections? All that will be intact, and in some ways, increased because he was President and because those in the know already knew what he was.

[NanceGreggs]

50. Again you forget ...

... that the reason Trump had to borrow from the Russians and Deutschbank was because he couldn't get any more loans from US banks - and that was before he was being investigated. What bank do you think is going to do business with him now?

People who "already knew who he was" and dealt with him anyway? That was then - this is now. There is no upside to getting involved with Trump in future, when there's plenty of money to be made dealing with crooks who haven't been exposed - and most likely won't ever be, because they're savvy enough to operate under the radar and NOT open themselves up to scrutiny by being elected "pResident".

As for the Trump Moscow Hotel, there's no way Putin (whose approval is necessary) would allow the ultimate luxury hotel in Moscow to be owned/operated by Trump, or any other outsider. Why would he? He can easily arrange for one of his Russian buddies to build such a hotel, if he wanted to.

The Trump Moscow deal was always a non-starter - and I'm sure Vlad and his cohorts have laughed at Trump's naivete in believing it would ever happen. But as things have turned out, continuing to string Trump along was very much to their advantage.

There's no doubt that Ivanka, Don Jr., and Kushner are also being investigated, as is the Trump organization. So whatever money is there could be subject to forfeiture as well. Allen Weiselberg, who has overseen the Trump organization for decades, has been cooperating with investigators in exchange for immunity - and you don't ask for immunity when you know there's nothing untoward to be found.

[Honeycombe8]

56. I didn't forget. I said he'd get loans. I didn't say from American banks.

Being investigated won't pose a problem. It's being convicted or impeached for crimes that would. He got loans after defaulting big time at least five times, when he filed bankruptcies.

I guess I see things differently. The others are crooks, too. All they care about is money. If Trump can deliver, they'll do business with him. We're talking about buying and selling real estate, and leasing luxury spaces in his various hotels and office bldgs and resorts. As I said, Gov Edwards got out of prison and resumed his life, as popular as ever. People don't care, when you're famous & powerful & wealthy. You're on the A list.

You're probably right about the Moscow Hotel.

I'm unsure of what's going on with Weiselberg. He was interviewed, but flipped only for the Cohen case. No indictments have been filed against him. He's still Trump Org's accountant, as far as I know. I expect he'll have to flip, if they charge him.

What SHOULD happen to Trump and what WILL are two different things, I fear. In my dreams, the evidence is strong enough to impeach him in the House. The Republicans are never going to impeach him. Then he'll lose in 2020 and be criminally indicted, followed by a couple of years of hearings, trials, appeals. He could be dead by then, he's in such bad shape.

If I had to guess, Ivanka is protected to a large extent. Trump made sure of that. But Kushner and Don Jr. are probably in trouble.

[NanceGreggs]

57. "Being investigated won't pose a problem."

What world are you living in where being investigated "doesn't pose a problem" for potential investors/bankers who would really rather NOT be embroiled in scrutiny that could lead to possible (probable) involvement in criminal activity?

[Honeycombe8]

58. The banks are being investigated, too.

Besides, he needs loans when he wants to expand or something unusual.

He still has money rolling in from all his properties.

If filing five or six bankruptcies didn't stop banks from loaning big sums to him, being investigated won't. Just my opinion.

They live in a different world. That criminal Abramoff got out of prison, wrote a book, and went right back to being a lobbyist. Then there was another man whose name I forget...same thing, except he got cancer and wrote a book about alternative healing...then went back to being super rich. That's how it is for the super rich.

[NanceGreggs]

59. Exactly.

So who are these lenders who "don't see investigations as a problem"?

[JDC]

6. I hope I don't insult you, but this is one of your better writings

Seriously spot on and well constructed.

Thx.

[Turin_C3PO]

8. Excellent

NanceGreggs, you’re a DU treasure! I agree with every word of your well-written post.

[Wellstone ruled]

9. Trump has been running a Ponzi Scheme

for decades. Now we are seeing the Ponzi collapsing in real time.

Asked yesterday,did Trump ever pay that 25 million buck fine?

Oh btw,Tuesday there is a major Appeals Court Hearing as to Trumps Emoluments and the Subpoenas necessary too force compliance by the Trump Corporation in supplying documents to Painter and his legal group.

[NanceGreggs]

14. And the hits just keep on comin'!

[Wellstone ruled]

34. And today we see the

Broidy Raid as front page. Is this the 75 million Sessions attempted bribe?

Donnie of Little Smarts is working overtime to keep those hits a coming.

[ChazInAz]

10. "Annihilation"

I like the sound of that.

[dhol82]

12. Nicely said!

[man4allcats]

15. I do think his ego and his narcicism impelled him to run,

Last edited Mon Mar 18, 2019, 09:31 AM - Edit history (1)

but Putin wisely took advantage of the situation by making sure he won. That way Putin wouldn't have to deal with Hillary, and perhaps just as importantly Trump would finally be in a position to pay back all the rubles he owes to Vlad and his buddies. Of course they could just kill him for ripping them off, but having him in the White House is more profitable and less messy.

For Trump, the White House may have started as an ego booster but instead has possibly become a way to avoid getting snuffed by the Russians for bad debts. Ironically, now that his criminal enterprise is coming to light, he may even attempt to use the presidency to avoid arrest. With Trump in office, it seems he has little choice but to try and stay there whether he wants to or not. If he doesn't, the Russians might get him, and if they don't either the Feds or New York State will. He really has no place to run.

[Kitchari]

18. This,

which is why Michael Cohen said there would be no peaceful transfer of power.

[malaise]

16. +1,000

Rec

[MrModerate]

17. Except for the fact that it's been painfully obvious for decades . . .

That Trump is a jackass of the purest water. No one who looked at his career for more than two minutes would think of him as a business superstar.

Except those who willingly blinded themselves.

To this day I still don't think we've grasped the depths of (some) people's loathing of Hillary Clinton. She might have been the most qualified candidate for President in history, but they just hated her. Still do, as Trumpers' continuing obsession with Clinton shows.

I don't know if such people can be shamed. They'll probably vote for Trump again.

[thesquanderer]

19. I think you got one thing wrong...

...where you said, "There isn’t a doubt in my mind that Trump is suffering from the knowledge that he is the author of his own misfortune" -- Trump never takes responsibility for a mistake, blames everything on others. I'm sure that, in his mind, this all would have worked out great if only he hadn't been screwed by James Comey, or John McCain, or Jeff Sessions, or the dishonest fake media, or...

[Boomer]

20. Sadly, you don't seem to understand Donald Trump

Trump is a classic narcissist, which means he has formidable psychological defenses against self-knowledge. It's obvious to people who aren't DJT that he's a sham, but it will NEVER be obvious to him.

The defenses are entirely predictable and we've seen them played out over and over again for the past two years:

1) Bad Things didn't happen - His crowds were larger, his election win was bigger, his knowledge is greater than anyone else. That is not just so much bluster, he's sincere in this belief.

2) If Bad Things did happen, it's not his fault - Someone was against him, they cheated, they conspired to make him look bad. He is the victim.

Sorry to disrupt your peaceful sleep, but Donald Trump will never acknowledge to himself that he is anything other than a superior human being.

[drmeow]

28. I agree with you

But, by the same token, I do think that he is suffering. That he fails to recognize that he is the agent of that suffering does, perhaps, lessen the sweetness of the schadenfreude. On the other hand, it ensures the continuation of that suffering.

I think he does realize that if he had never run for office none of this would be happening but I think he may be only now starting to realize that, unlike other things he may wish he'd never done or doesn't want people to know about, he can't make this stuff go away with a NDA. I also think he's only now realizing that in government other people have as much or more power than he has and not all of them are willing to pay nice with him. And, of course, it is not "if I'd never run for office they would not have uncovered my crimes" it is "if I had never run for office they wouldn't be out to get me."

Regardless, I think he's really unhappy and is suffering due to his perception of being mistreated to which I say, good - he deserves to be unhappy and to suffer.

[spanone]

21. K&R...

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

24. You're correct...

I believe that’s how we want to think he thinks.
He doesn’t give a rats fuck.
He knows that he’ll be taken care of the rest of his life. State and federal indictments won’t mean a thing to him after he’s out of the White House his lawyers will keep everything so bottled up in courts, he’ll be dead by the time anything happens.

And we will be talking about him in the press, on television, radio, internet everyday good or bad that’s all he wants we will totally play into his desires. Again.

[panader0]

25. K and R

[bluestarone]

26. Great thread! TY

Thinking about all this, i'm 100% positive, he has days that he very much regrets running for president! (We will NEVER here anyone say this) BUT i know it's true! HE truly DESTROYED himself! It's gone too far for him to do anything about it.

[Nitram]

27. I doubt that a sociopathic narcissist would have the slightest inkling what the people think about

him. Trump will always vastly over-estimate his own intelligence, knowledge, insight, skills, charm, etc. He believes the people who suck up to him, even though he has no real regard for them otherwise. He discounts criticism and the people who criticize him as envy for his remarkable personal achievements and personality.

[karynnj]

30. Not at this point of time

While I agree with every point you made, that is because I am on the left. Read some of Trump's tweets where he lists while he is the most accomplished President ever -- excepting maybe Lincoln. That laundry list - that is mostly very bogus - is believed by his base.

They are also buying that it is because he is SO successful, that the left is desperate - so we are using lies to go after him. There are enough of them to have frozen a huge number of Republican legislators who know that if they make an honest effort to evaluate the charges and call him out, they will be out the next time they are up for re-election via a primary. (Consider if he really has a hard core 33% base -- it is likely more than 50% in most Republican primaries.) Because of this, he very likely will not be impeached - whatever is found.

The more damning the report or indictments, the more likely that he is not re-elected. This will leave him a one term President. I suspect that unless he is indicted for something like money laundering or tax evasion, the American norm is that over a long time, Presidents are - to some degree - rehabilitated because of the American desire to create an American mythology that we are always the good guys. Consider how GWB has been treated in recent years. The one exception to this point is Nixon,who as a person is still seen in a very negative light - even as he was credited for the EPA or opening the door to China. (Less said was continuing the Vietnam War for 4 or 5 years to get the same conclusion LBJ could have gotten without his interference.)

I suspect that Trump will be most similar to Nixon, without as many "credits". Like Nixon, who was denied the chance to buy a coop in NYC because he was not approved, I think Trump will find he is not accepted - even as an ex_President - in NYC and other liberal coastal areas. However, he may still have the support of his base - who likely do not live in any area he would want to retire to. (Mar a largo might be the exception)

One difference is that it is possible that - out of office - he might still have been involved in money laundering or tax fraud that is not beyond the statue of limitation. The question then is would he be jailed and would he then be seen as a martyr in his base.

The one ironic thing is that many things you list will be true in some areas - NYC - where he has always wanted to be loved and respected. That will never happen for him .. and probably for his three oldest children.

[Gothmog]

31. K&R

[ismnotwasm]

35. Excellent

I started reading this in my phone, didn’t see the author, then I thought, who is this? And it’s Nancy Greggs. Of course it is, as well written as it is.

[moondust]

36. Possibly

the biggest scammer in modern history, deserving appropriate blowback.

K/R

[SeattleVet]

37. I grew up and lived in NY.

We always looked at him as a liar, fraud, cheat, thief, and general all-around slimy scumbucket with some money and a fawning 'celebrity' press that promoted the hell out of him to sell magazines.

No real New Yorker has ever forgiven him for his lowlife destruction of the Bonwit-Teller friezes and disappearance of the ornate gates. The Metropolitan Museum of Art wanted to remove and conserve those Art Deco objects, but poor little rich kid decided that he needed to tear them down at once so demolition of the building (to build his Tower to Crass Opulence) wasn't delayed by 2 weeks.

He was, and will always be, a proctologist's dream - a perfect asshole.

[NanceGreggs]

43. I also grew up in NY ...

... so I know whereof you speak.

I attended fashion design school in Manhattan after high school.. Part of our curriculum was seasonal strolls down 5th Avenue, where we made sketches and notes on the window displays of the high-end stores to see what new trends were happening in fashion. Of course, Bonwit's was always a must on the list. I was heartbroken when I learned the friezes and gates had been demolished after the Metropolitan had already offered to pay for their removal and preservation.

Yes, we NYers always knew about Trump - but I understood people in other parts of the country not being all that familiar with his reputation, who therefore took him at his word when he spewed his "version" of his business history.

That being said, the powers-that-be in the GOP were certainly aware of who Trump was when they nominated him - and simply relied on their voters to not look beyond what they were being told.

[Initech]

40. I wouldn't want to punish him too much, I hear he likes that sort of thing.

[lagomorph777]

42. Philanthropist genius to philandering idiot in two short years.

May his tattered reputation serve as a warning to his wannabe successors in years to come, like the skeletons of pirates in cages, up on poles at the wharf, in days of yore.

[Shipwack]

44. Sorry, you're 100% wrong

You're analyzing Trump as if he was a normal person. He's not.

He's a sociopath and/or a narcissist. In his mind, anything he does, be it his morning potty or negotiation with North Korea, is the best in the world, and everyone knows it, even the "lying liberals".

He's not suffering; he's reveling in how much he's making others suffer.

[NanceGreggs]

46. I sincerely doubt ...

... that he's "reveling" in the fact that he's the target of 17 investigations - with more underway according to what we've learned from Mueller and the SDNY.

The art of Trump's game has always been fooling people into believing he IS who he says he is, and not who he REALLY is. With all of the info that's been disclosed due to the scrutiny that being "pResident" inevitably attracts, he now knows that the majority of the country is no longer "fooled".

Just because Trump says he's the best at everything doesn't mean he believes it - the game has always been to get others to believe it.

His self-made man boasts are the perfect case in point. He didn't "forget" the millions his father gave him - he's known all along that was a lie. But as long as he could get other people to believe he made a fortune on his own, the lie didn't matter.

[Cousin Dupree]

45. Very well said. But unfortunately I have to disagree with your conclusion that he is suffering.

He lies not just to everyone else, but also to himself. Lies are his protective shield. And he will never be aware of the truth of what he really is.

[NanceGreggs]

47. I'm sure he lies to himself all the time ...

... but he knows the investigations are real, and have already unraveled the image he's constructed of himself.

[samplegirl]

51. I was hoping he'd

be out by election time.

[lambchopp59]

54. God I wish I could get his die-hard supporters to awaken to this truth.

I'm so beyond tolerance for what they'll believe at this point: to emulate my best Maxwell Smart:
"Would you believe there are dozens of secret agents right outside this building right now? No? How about half a dozen? Three secret agents?..."
When Agent Smart said it, they laughed. If Orange Twitler said it, they'd sell their whole farm betting on the whim.
I don't sleep peacefully, frightened of what terrorism the well armed Trumpers could wreak.

[NanceGreggs]

55. What I try to keep in mind ...

... is that those who were so easily led into believing that Trump was a decent, honest, Christian man can be just as easily led to believe otherwise.

We have no idea what Mueller will be exposing, along with what will be revealed by other investigations ongoing in the SDNY.

I suspect there is evidence that will be so damning, and so well-documented and provable, a lot of current Trump supporters will see things in a very different light.

His rabid "base" may remain intact no matter what - but there are other traditional Republican voters who will look at the evidence and finally understand that the man they thought Trump was is not who he really is.

Not every Republican is a die-hard Trump supporter. Many are simply supporting their party, and Trump happens to be the face of that party right now. But even Republicans are capable of saying "enough is enough" if confronted with provable evidence of corruption.