Alabama Penalizes Owners of Electric Vehicles

[CajunBlazer]

Here in Alabama the Republican legislature has recently passed and our Republican Governor has signed a bill imposing a new state tax. That in itself is big news since Republicans in this state . . .


www.cajunscomments.com/alabama-penalizes-owners-of-electric-vehicles/

[jberryhill]

1. Let me guess

Electric vehicle owners want to use the roads funded by the gasoline tax, but avoid the gasoline tax since they don't use gasoline?

Did I win?

[ret5hd]

2. Well, kinda but not really:

The tax is $200/yr for electric vehicles and $100/yr on hybrids.

From the article:

Let’s do some simple math. According to Federal Highway Administration, the average car is driven 13,476 miles per year and average internal combustion engine (ICE) personal vehicle gets 24.7 miles per gallon in gas mileage. Dividing the 13,476 miles per year by this gas mileage figure leads us to conclude that the driver of the average ICE vehicle buys 545.6 gallons of fuel per year to keep his car on the road. At 10 cents a gallon, that means the owner of an ICE vehicle in Alabama will pay an average of $54.59 in extra gas taxes while I pay $200. In fact, with that same $200 I could pay the taxes on enough gas to drive 49,400 miles if I had an ICE vehicle. I assume that since plug-in hybrid owners will have to pay a $100 flat tax and still have to pay gas taxes on the fuel they use, they will be in similar situation.

[jberryhill]

3. "at 10 cents a gallon"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States

Alabama 21.09

First, it uses the wrong figure for the gas tax in Alabama.

Then, it uses national averages for mileage and fuel efficiency, which may not be representative of Alabama.

[CajunBlazer]

13. No, you lose - that article is incorrect

https://www.al.com/news/2019/02/10-cent-gas-tax-increase-proposal-in-alabama-what-you-need-to-know.html

See the following article which is correct and there are many other recent articles which back it up. Google it if you don't believe me.

The Alabama state gas tax before the additional $0.10 tax/gal. was added was $0.18/gal. so it is now $0.28.

Let's compare apples to apples - Even if you figure that I am paying the $200 a year flat rate Alabama tax instead of the $0.28/per gal. I am getting screwed.

Let's do the math again using the $0.28 figure instead of the $0.10 increase:

The average car is driven 13,476 miles per year and average internal combustion engine (ICE) personal vehicle gets 24.7 miles per gallon in gas mileage. Dividing the 13,476 miles per year by this gas mileage figure leads us to conclude that the driver of the average ICE vehicle buys 545.6 gallons of fuel per year to keep his car on the road. At 28 cents a gallon, that means the owner of an ICE vehicle in Alabama will pay an average of $152.77 to the state of Alabama a year while I pay $200. And that is not taking into consideration that both I and the average ICE vehicle might both drive on business or on vacation. In that case if the typical ICE vehicle buys some of his gas out of state he will pay even less than $152.77 in gas taxes to the state of Alabama while if I charge my car out of state I still pay the $200.

And by the way, since I am retired, I am not driving my car to work everyday so I will put substantially less than the 13,476 miles average per year on my car; I average driving maybe 3 to 5 miles a day in my car, but I do plan a couple of out of state trips. Bottom line - I am really getting screwed by the state of Alabama

[jberryhill]

16. Uh-huh

....and how much are you paying for gas total?

[CajunBlazer]

18. Nothing - But just because I am smart enough to cut down on pollution . . .

. . . and pay for much cheaper electricity instead of gasoline., doesn't mean it is okay for me to be screwed by the state of Alabama. I get 320 miles of driving for a $6.25 of electricity while someone who drives an average ICE vehicle is paying about $30 to drive the same distance

I also got a $7,500 federal tax credit when I bought my Tesla Model 3. In some states I would get an additional tax credit, but not in this state where the politicians deny that global warming exist. No, instead they pass the highest EV tax in the country for highway construction and maintenance.

[Codeine]

26. So the difference is less than $50

even with your rosy numbers, so let’s be generous and call that 25%. And surprise surprise about 25% of the revenue from the tax is going toward additional expanded electric vehicle infrastructure.

It sounds like a remarkably balanced tax, in truth.

[CajunBlazer]

44. Many states are incentivizing people to buy and own electric vehicles

So it is the f*cking principle of the thing. The @sshole politicians in this state are anti-science climate deniers and therefore they not only not offer incentives such as tax credits on purchase to EV owners, in this politically backward state they are charging them more in yearly taxes than they charge those who own cars which pollute the environment and contribute more to global warming.

That's why I am so p*ssed!!! Have you got a problem with that?

[Codeine]

57. You're being asked to pay your share.

Your own math indicates the utter fairness of the amount charged. You’re being silly because you aren’t being further rewarded for your car purchase. You’ve no reason whatever to be pissed.

[CajunBlazer]

65. No, are you dense?

I am being asked to pay almost $50 a year more compared to the average person that drives ICE vehicle and pays the full Alabama $0.28/gal. gas tax while their vehicles pullute the environment and contribute far more to climate change than my car does.

It ain't the money, its the principle of the thing. Our politicians who deny climate change want to stick it to EV owners because they know why we buy EV's.

That's who you are defending and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for doing so!

[Codeine]

68. I'm not defending anyone.

And I’m certainly not dense, not so as far as I’ve been able to determine over the last fifty years anyway.

All I’m trying to do is point out that your math (and I’m still not buying the idea that Alabama has fuel use numbers comparable to the national average, but whatever) indicates that you’re paying about $48 more than is paid by a petrol-burner. That’s about 25% of the $200 in question.

Another person in the thread indicated that 25% of the revenue from the EV tax would be used to further build out the electric vehicle charging infrastructure. That means that your share of the road maintenance is the same as Johnny Gasguzzler, with a bit added in to make sure your car has places to top up the battery.

Eminently reasonable.

Now, you did note elsewhere in this thread that you don’t think that the 25% portion is accurate, and if that’s true then you’ve got a $48 beef. However, as I’m not convinced that ‘bama numbers for fuel use are the same as the national average I’m not entirely willing to sign on to that. My suspicion is that it’s probably a wash.

Not sure why you’re in such a snit and hurling names, but that seems a bit counterproductive.

[CajunBlazer]

79. My math and my method of analyzing this situation is correct!

I have a both a degree in mechanical engineering (heavily dependent on mat) and a Masters in Business Administration so I understand how to analyze situations like this one and I know how to make correct calculations.. I am comparing the cost of Alabama taxes per year on EV's and ICE vehicles - an apples to apples situation. That is the correct method for analyzing the situation. We are not talking about the total taxes here, only about those things that the Alabama legislature controls.

Sure I avoid federal gas taxes with my EV, but that is a matter that the US Congress controls. Sure I pay $6.25 in electrify to drive 320 miles in my Model S were I would pay somewhere between $40 to $50 dollars in gas to drive an ICE vehicle the same distance. Sure the federal government gave me a $7,500 tax rebate when I bought my car and some states would have given me an additional state tax credit as well, but of course Alabama did not. Sure my Model 3 is one of the most advanced cars on the road not even counting its method of propulsion. Sure Tesla sends my car updates to my car over the internet which improve its performance and usability while with other vehicles what you buy is what get forever. Sure, my car can accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in 5 seconds while a typical ICE vehicle struggles to make it to 60 mph in 10 seconds. Sure my sedan handles a well as the best sports cars because of its very low center of gravity and its near perfect 50%-50% weight distribution between its front to back wheels. Any of these advantages far outweighs any extra money I have to pay the state for "road tax", but that isn't the point at all.

And with all of that in mind and the fact that I have made enough money off of Tesla stock to have paid for my car three to four times over, you can see that I am not concerned about the little extra money I personally have to pay in state road taxes.

My point, if you can get over you unwillingness to lose an argument and make an attempt to see where I am coming from, is that both the state and federal government should be offering people like you incentives to buy electric vehicles because that would be best for all of us, at least for the time being. Later when the higher production of EV's dramatically brings down their costs, those extra incentives shouldn't be necessary. On the other hand, both the federal and state governs should at least not in any way charge more to own an EV than it charges to own an ICE vehicle. That makes sense only if you reject science and don't believe in climate change and hate anyone that does.

That is my point and stand by it because it is morally right. I hope you get it, but if you don't that fine because I am done arguing with you.

Have a good night.

[Iwasthere]

82. Well said

Also, most electric vehicle are light by nature, with tires that are less damaging to the roads.

[EX500rider]

86. "Also, most electric vehicle are light by nature" Don't think so.

Most contemporary electric cars are 20 to 30 percent heavier than petrol cars of comparable size and power output.

[Dr. Strange]

7. TAXATION IS THEFT!!!!111!1!

[jberryhill]

8. Give it a little while more, and that will be the DU motto

[Jake Stern]

31. Sarcasm?

[Dr. Strange]

34. Yah.

Calling this tax a "penalty" on owners of electric cars seems adjacent to the Taxation is Theft mantra of libertarians. (Although in fairness, "Taxation is Theft" has a better ring than "Taxation is Penalizing".)

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

32. DRIVING FREE ON PUBLIC ROADS IS THEFT!!!11!!!

Somehow, the maintenance of roads and bridges needs to be paid for. What better way to get electric vehicle users to pay a share?

TAXATION MAY INDEED BE THEFT!!!!111!1!, by the creed of many libertarians and republicans.

[CajunBlazer]

46. I don't have a problem paying my fair share to maintain Alabama roads

What I have a problem with is paying more per year in "gas taxes" for my EV than those people that own vehicles with internal combustion engines that pollute the environment and contribute more to global warming. Alabama now has the second highest state yearly EV tax, second only to Georgia and all of the states with with the highest EV taxes are those filled with politicians who deny climate change. Other states offer incentives such as tax credits for EV purchase, but not the states with high yearly EV taxes.

Do you see a trend here?

[Blues Heron]

51. think of it as a road tax and you'll feel better about coughing up the dough

lets face it, it's a fairly small sum in the grand scheme of things and its going to a good cause.

[CajunBlazer]

54. Its not the money dude!

$200 a year is not a big deal for me. It is the fact that I have an EV and I have to pay more than the average guy who drives a ICE vehicle that pollutes the environment and contributes much more to climate change than my Tesla Model 3. In this state that is par or the course because most of our politicians are climate change deniers.

[Codeine]

61. Buy you aren't paying more.

You’re paying the same amount; the extra 25% or so is the amount that’s going to build the charging infrastructure for electric cars.

[Volaris]

62. Hahahaha!

Well Played, Dr.!

[LanternWaste]

10. The corollary being I pay local school taxes but don't have kids or use the school.

Do irrelevant wins make a difference to people arguing simply for the sake of arguing?

Why yes. I imagine they must do so.

[jberryhill]

11. We need to put our act to music now....

[spanone]

4. I remember when I bought my first hybrid in 2003. Got a $2K tax credit....

[Kaleva]

5. I don't see how this penalizes owners of electric vehicles.

Rather then pay the state gasoline tax which is used to fund road construction and repair, the owners pay a flat fee.

[CajunBlazer]

14. You didn't read the article did you?

[Kaleva]

21. I read the article and the suthor is trying to pull a fast one.

He doesn't include current Alabama gas tax nor federal gas tax in his calculations.If he did, one would see the cost to be a wash.

https://www.salestaxhandbook.com/alabama/gasoline-fuel

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/web_gas_taxes.php

[CajunBlazer]

27. Of course I didn't include the federal gas tax - that wouldn't be an apples to apples comparison.

I am getting screwed by the state of Alabama not the federal government. The federal government is treating me just fine.

The federal government isn't charging a flat rate tax for my Tesla Model 3, Alabama is. When I bought my EV, the federal government provided me with $7,500 tax credit. While some states also provide an addition tax credit, Alabama politicians would commit suicide before even considering such an "abomination".

The Alabama yearly EV tax is the second highest in the nation with Georgia being the highest at just over $213 a year. However, the Alabama tax is set to go up $3 every year.

Do you think that it is a coincidence that the states with the highest EV taxes are all states where the vast majority of the politicians deny global warming.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

35. You know the federal gas tax you (don't) goes back to the states. Yes?

[CajunBlazer]

55. Actually federal gas taxes do not go back to the states

They go into the general revenue bucket. Congress decides independently how much will be allocated for road maintenance and construction and to which states every year. States with Senators and Representatives with the most clout get the most money.

[Kaleva]

40. But all you included was the proposed tax hike of 10 cents a gallon

If you included all taxes, everybody would see that an EV owner comes out ahead in what one pays for highway and bridge maintenance and repair over what an owner of a vehicle with an internal combustion engine does.

Your argument is that EV owners ought to pay just a fraction of what other vehicle owners pay for use of our roads.

[CajunBlazer]

58. That's true . . .

. . . That's because the legislation which initiatesd the EV tax for the first time also increased the gas tax $0.10/gal. In the article I was discussing the affects of the legislation. If it had not passed the gas tax in Alabama would still be $0.18/gal. and there would be no EV tax. After comments correctly pointed out that EV owners should pay some tax for driving Alabama roads I pointed out that we were still being screwed by having to pay more in taxes than the average ICE vehicle driver. Keep in mind that my car cost more than the average ICE vehicle so I also had to pay more in Alabama sales tax than average.

Where other states are incentivizing people to by EV's by offering generous tax credits on their purchase, the Alabama politicians who deny climate change are offering no such incentives and charging more for EV to drive on Alabama roads.

That stinks to high heavens.

[Kaleva]

93. Sales tax doesn't go for road repair

Your argument still appears to be that EV owners ought to pay far less then ICE owners for road upkeep, and that includes the federal interstate highways, even if EV owners put as much wear and tear on the roads as ICE owners do.

[MichMan]

42. How do you think maintenance on interstate highways is funded?

That same Federal gas tax you aren't paying

[CajunBlazer]

85. Dude, you haven't been keeping up with conversation

Asked and answered several times already.

[MichMan]

88. The replies throughout further support my negative stereotypes of Tesla owners nt

[MrsCoffee]

97. Have to agree.

What a thread.

[Blues Heron]

52. You'll get a better deal if you get out and drive more

No Tesla wants to languish in the garage! They're telling you - dude- flat fee, go nuts!

[Blue_true]

75. Someone posted information.

Alabama seems to be asking for more than the lost gas tax. I think the state will lose in Court, it is into extra taxation on a class of people that use the very same facilities that others that don't pay the extra tax use.

[mn9driver]

6. Gas taxes are paid based on mileage and efficiency.

Electric vehicle owners should expect to chip in for roads based on the same factors. It doesn’t sound like this flat tax does that.

[CajunBlazer]

20. You didn't read the article did you?

[mn9driver]

24. Why yes, I did. Thanks for asking.

[CajunBlazer]

28. Hummmm, then you reply puzzles me

[FBaggins]

37. You should evaluate why that is

Because you keep getting the same response.

I too have read the blog and don't agree that charging a tax (which looks like a very reasonable tax) is "penalizing" owners of the taxed vehicles. Certainly not unfairly.

[CajunBlazer]

47. How is it reasonable to charge more in yearly taxes for owning an EV than is charged for ICE vehicle

[FBaggins]

69. I don't agree with your premise

Some ICE vehicles pay more than others and it isn’t aligned exactly with how much they use the roads of the state. “Fair” isn’t evaluated based on specific dollar amounts when the differences are negligible.

[tinrobot]

9. It's fair. EV drivers don't pay gasoline tax, but use the same roads.

The new tax legislation also requires that owners of totally electrical vehicles pay a flat tax of $200 a year, and that the owners of plug-in hybrids will have to pay a $100 a year flat tax.

As an EV driver, I have no problem with these sorts of laws.

[dixiegrrrrl]

12. Of course you do know that once a tax is accepted by the people

then it can be and usually increased, over time.

[CajunBlazer]

22. Your're right! There are already provisions in the bill for those increases

The tax is scheduled by law to go up by $3 every year.

[CajunBlazer]

15. You didn't read the whole article did you?

[tinrobot]

36. Actually I did. The math on EV efficiency didn't sway me, sorry.

[tinrobot]

50. I have adegree in Physics. Obviously, I suck at math.

[CajunBlazer]

66. Well, I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering and a MBA

And there is nothing wrong with my math.

[tinrobot]

71. I never said there was...

[marble falls]

89. Thats just a nasty cut. For shame.

[JCMach1]

39. Then add gas taxes for ICE vehicles that pay for the cost

Of global warming...

While we are being 'fair'

[WeekiWater]

17. Sounds like a step in the right direction.

Should be a better way to do it than a flat tax but it would be difficult to get people to report annual mileage and use a function to determine the tax.

Sounds like the final bill also included grants to expand charging stations throughout the state. Those grants would be funded through this fee. Around 25% is suppose to go toward the grants.

The battery packs for some of the the Mercedes EV's are to be made in Alabama.

[CajunBlazer]

19. The Alabama EV is the 2nd highest in the nation

Georgia has a $213.69 fee. The states with the highest EV taxes are also those where the politicians deny global warming.

[WeekiWater]

23. You forgot the word "some".

It's not all that high. Probably about 25% over what the average consumer is paying. Now look at what that 25% is going to. Seems like a good deal for everyone and the future. Alabama has reason to promote EV's and it's the Republican mantra. Big money.

[CajunBlazer]

38. There is no mention of charging stations in the final bill

For politicians in this state, talk is cheap.

Tesla owners, who make up the vast majority of the EV owners in the United State, don't really need additional charging stations anyway. We charge our cars at home and when we are on the road, Tesla has all of the super charging stations in convenient intervals on all major highway that we need.

I don't give a flip where Mercedes EV's or their battery packs are made - I own stock in Tesla not Daimler AG. By the way, Mercedes has not sold one EV yet - their Mercedes-Benz EQC won't go on sale until sometimes in 2020. Since the EQC's range will be only 200 miles (my Tesla Model 3 gets 315) I don't think they will be selling very many of them since they will be most useful for driving within a city. Without being able to use Tesla's super charging network, you wouldn't want to take a EQC on a long trip. By comparison, Tesla has sold 138,000 Model 3's last year and plans to manufacture twice that number in 2019. Tesla has sold an estimated 350,000 EV's (Roadsters, Model S's, Model X's and Model 3's) to date, while Mercedes has sold none, and won't sell any until 2020. By the time that Mercedes sells its first EQC, Tesla is expected to have sold over 600,000 EVs.

Last year Tesla sold more EV's than either Mercedes and BMW sold of all of their models.

[WeekiWater]

41. Do you have text of the passed bill?

"I don't give a flip where Mercedes EV's or their battery packs are made" Many people from Alabama do.

[CajunBlazer]

67. It's on line, google it

I got sore eyes reading through all of the bullsh*t.

[WeekiWater]

96. I did. The text I read included the grant funding.

That is why I was asking if you had a link.

[Codeine]

25. If you can afford a Tesla

you don’t get to whine about kicking down two hundred bucks to maintain the roads you drive on, especially if even after your own best-case-scenario math you’re forced to admit that you might be paying forty or fifty bucks more than some ICE motorists (and I’m willing to bet Alabama motorists get worse mileage and drive more miles than the national average.)

Your complaint is ridiculous.

[Jake Stern]

30. This right here

It's like listening to Hummer owners gripe about how much it costs to fuel the vehicle.

[CajunBlazer]

73. Now it about how polluting ICE vehicles get a better deal in Alabama

Its about our stupid Alabama politicians and those in other Southern states who stick it to EV owners precisely because they hate anyone who believes in man made global warming.

That is who you are defending here. Is that really what you want to spend your time on DU doing? Because that is exactly what is going on in my home state.

[Jake Stern]

76. So you shouldn't pay a dime to the upkeep of the roads?

Seems kind of selfish to me.

Sure they can lower the fees but if EV drivers want to use the roads they should plunk down for their upkeep.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

33. I'm waiting to hear from owners of McLaren Speedtails.

Oh, darn; Speedtails are not street legal in the U.S.

McLaren Speedtail



The McLaren Speedtail is a limited-production hybrid sports car manufactured by McLaren Automotive. Succeeding the F1, the car is the fourth addition in the McLaren Ultimate Series, after the Senna, the P1, and the F1. The car is also the first of 18 new cars or derivatives that McLaren will launch as part of its Track22 business plan. The Speedtail was unveiled on October 26, 2018
....

Production

McLaren plans to build 106 examples of the Speedtail, all of which have already been sold, at an MSRP of around £2.1m. Due in part to its use of cameras in lieu of side mirrors and no side-mounted airbags, the Speedtail is not street legal in the United States, even though around 35% of the total cars were bought by American buyers. A spokeswoman for the company that the car may be legal, pending approval by NHTSA, to be imported into the U.S. under the “Show or Display” law, which exempts cars that are “historically or technologically significant." from NHTSA safety standards but requires that owners not drive the vehicle more than 2,500 miles in a 12-month period. McLaren has made it clear that they will not offer assistance with importing or registering the Speedtail in the U.S.

[Codeine]

70. I wonder if it will suck as badly

as their Formula1 car? Probably not, as I’m quite sure they weren’t dense enough to have Renault build the engine.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

94. Speedtails are hybrids, so the electric motors could be from Lucas. NT

[coti]

45. Does that go for the cheap Chevy Bolts and Hyuandai Kona electrics, too? How about the Model 3's?

Do you really think it's wise to dis-incentivize owning an electric car- rich person or not- when we're trying to find ways to avoid global warming?

[Codeine]

59. The incentive to purchase an electric car

is the fact that you don’t have to buy gas. That’s why I intend to pick up a used electric car within the next six months.

You shouldn’t see the purchase of an electric vehicle as an opportunity to opt out of paying your share of the maintenance bill for the roads upon which you drive. That’s just ridiculous.

And when the actual bill in question is two hundred goddamn dollars I just do not want to hear it. That’s a pittance. If that’s too much to absorb then you’re not likely buying anything electric anyway, you’re driving a beater like I’ve been doing for the last decade.

[coti]

64. There are a lot of reasons to buy an electric car, and I have one.

However, one of the primary drawbacks to buying an electric car is they are expensive up-front compared to an ICE car. Hence, the need for federal tax credits and other financial incentives to lessen the overall cost of owning the car. That's pretty standard policy at this point.

Seems to me that going out of your way to tax someone who you're already giving tax breaks to, to encourage them to make a purchase, is really working against and contradicting yourself.

[CajunBlazer]

72. With your attitude you must be a climate change denier

Using your logic you would buy a car that pollutes like crazy if it cost less to buy and drive.

You obviously don't understand the mentality of most EV owners. We paid more for our cars because of environmental reasons, not because they are cheaper to buy or drive. Any saving we might derive from our EV's are purely secondary.

However, we also fully understand that there are a lot of people like you who, because of their financial conditions, are all about costs and don't care a whole lot about the affects of climate change on people 20 to 50 years from now. (By the way, I am 73, so I am not being self centered here.) That's why most of the people who already own EV's like my Tesla Model 3 want federal and state incentives like tax credits on the purchase of EV's and fair taxes for driving them on the road to bring down the cost of EV ownership until enough are being produced that economies of scale can make thje costs of their ownership comparable or better than ICE vehicles.

Most EV owners are more concerned about the welfare of the people of the world in the future that we will never meet than how much our EV's cost to own and drive.

You may think we are crazy, but that is the way we are and we are proud of it.

PS: I am not sure what you would have to pay for a used Chevy Volt, but most EV's don't lose their value as fast as ICE vehicles because demand is high, at least that is true for Teslas because you would wait for months if you ordered a new one now. I paid $51,500 for my Model 3 and it didn't depreciate when I drove it off of the lot. It now has about 2,500 miles on it and I could easily sell it right now for $54,000. So good luck on buying a used EV.

[Codeine]

81. Man, you just cannot help the nastiness, can you?

Of course I’m not a climate change denier; I would be genuinely surprised if any of us long-term DU members were.

I have always attempted to purchase the most fuel-efficient cars that I could afford, and your comment that people of my “financial condition” (really, dude?) somehow don’t care about the future environment is really quite tremendously insulting. I’m raising two children, so I obviously want a healthy planet for them. I’m a strict vegan with a very simple lifestyle, so I’m pretty secure in my environmental bona fides.

I’m not going to apologize for not being able to swing the purchase of a car that runs well over fifty grand. We all do what we can with what we have.

Used Volts are running about $16,500
or so in our area for a base model. That’s Carmax pricing, mind you; a better deal could probably be struck at a traditional used car dealership or a new car lot looking to offload a trade-in. A Leaf is even more affordable but a step down in performance, obviously. The BMWs run about the same as the Volts. None of these have the range the Tesla has, of course.

[MrsCoffee]

90. "people like you who, because of their financial conditions"...

Wow. Just wow.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Codeine]

95. A lot of stereotypes

are being confirmed in this thread.

[lame54]

29. If I were to travel to Alabama...

Would it be in black and white?

[CajunBlazer]

49. I don't understand your question

[lame54]

56. What year is it there?

[CajunBlazer]

60. Evidently somewhere in the dark ages

[jmowreader]

43. Let's go about this a different way

How much wear a car makes on the road depends on how much it weighs.

A Tesla Model S weighs 4800 pounds, as does a half-ton pickup.

If you use 800 gallons of gas a year in your pickup, you're going to pay $224 in combined federal and state gas taxes. This means the Tesla driver is saving $24 per year by owning this car.

[CajunBlazer]

53. That rational doesn't apply to most EV's

I don't own a Model S, I own a Model 3. If they based the yearly EV tax on the weight of the car and made it compatible to the tax on the gas usage of an ICE vehicle of comparable weight I would have no problems with the tax. But they don't - it is $200 increasing $3 every year forever. My car weighs 4,000. The Chevy Volt and 2019 Hyundai Kona Electric weigh about 3,700 lb. The average passenger care sold in the US weighs about 4,000 lbs.

However, weight is obviously how they way that tax vehicles in Alabama. It is the large semi trucks that tear up our roads and require our bridges to be much stronger than would otherwise be necessary. The average loaded semi weighs 80,000 pounds. Even when you take into consideration that their weight is spread over 18 wheels, that is still 4,444 lbs per wheel on average. The average weight per wheel of my car and the average passenger care is $1,000 lbs per wheel.

[DBoon]

63. taxes are "only payment for services" in a libertarian's imagination

You tax gasoline because there is a public interest gasoline consumption. Burning fossil fuels has negative social and environmental consequences. It is the right of the government to reduce those via taxation.

Tobacco and alcoholic beverages are taxed for this purpose - to reduce their consumption and the consequent negative social consequences. Do people on DU complain that smokers and heavy drinkers are unfairly charged their fair share of teh cost of government services?

I am always amazed to see people on DU decry how unfair it is that high MPG vehicles aren't "paying their fair share" and should be charged additional fees. This is a philosophy of government entirely removed from what liberals and progressive should believe.

We have not privatized government functions and never should.

[gratuitous]

74. To an extent, I agree

But we've been conditioned over the years to the notion of paying one's fair share. Gas taxes are not income or payroll taxes, and they fall hardest on those with the least amount of money. That being said, there's a silver lining if EV owners want to avail themselves of it: Become loud stakeholders in the road system, and insist on getting benefit commensurate with your contribution. "We EV owners cut down on pollution and use of fossil fuels and improve air quality for all Alabamans. Thanks to the legislature, we also contribute tax dollars out of proportion to the benefit all citizens of our state receive by our choice of vehicle, and we pay that extra willingly, again for the benefit of all Alabamans. So we want more of a say in how Alabama spends its gas tax revenue."

[Blue_true]

77. The tax idea is in the right direction, but the math sucks.

EVs and Hybrids would pay an extra tax. Alabama must be feeling a pinch and is looking for revenue. I don't know the correct way to tax, each has issues, but I do know that as more EVs and Hybrids hit the road, the money to maintain highways start to dry up.

[Marrah_Goodman]

78. So you own a Tesla

You got a 7500 tax credit. You can afford a Tesla and you are complaining about 48 dollars going towards electric car infrastructure and other taxes you pay because you don't pay a gas tax towards infrastructure.

Sorry if I just don't feel sorry for you or understand your outrage.

[CajunBlazer]

83. My outrage isn't about me dude!

With me its not about the money; you're right $50 doesn't mean a lot to me.

My outrage is directed to Alabama politicians who reject science and don't believe in climate change and have a problem with anyone who does. Alabama now has the second highest yearly EV tax in the nation, right after Georgia. 17 states besides Alabama now have yearly EV tax laws, but most of highest yearly EV taxes are found in the South and other ruby red states. That's no accident.

Some of the other states with a yearly EV tax offer off setting incentives. For example California charges a yearly $100 dollar per yer EV tax but offers a $4,500 tax rebate on their purchase. You can there drive your EV for 45 years in California before you pay back your tax rebate.

My main concern is the environment even though I probably won't live to see the real severe effects of global warming. Politicians who are in the pockets of those who profit by the ruining our world and then tell lies to their constituents to keep getting reelected are the target of my outrage!

If you still don't understand my feelings on this matter, I can't help you further.

[TexasTowelie]

80. You could always do what I do...

walk, take the bus, or ride the bike. No extra taxes or fees.

[CajunBlazer]

84. The state of Alabama doesn't believe in funding public transportion

The city of Birmingham does with the help of federal grants, but the quality is real poor. The rich suburbs don't want public transportation extending into their cities; the secret reason being that the politicians who run them are afraid that the poor black folks would have an easy way of visiting them. We are so spread out here that walking are biking would take hours to get to most destinations so we are stuck with cars if we want to travel just about anywhere.

[TexasTowelie]

92. It isn't much but different in Texas.

The town where I went to college didn't have any bus service until about three years ago even though the population is 60,000. Arlington is in the Metroplex and has no bus service while the population is around 350,000.

[Sapient Donkey]

87. How much do you think you should pay in vehicle taxes?

Also, do you believe that a portion of the funds will be used to build out the infrastructure for EVs? If so, do you think that will ultimately lead to further adoption of EVs by your fellow Alabamanites?

[ProudLib72]

91. Breaking News: 63% of U.S. Electricity Generated by Burning Fossil Fuels

Anyone who buys an electric car is giving Rump's fanboy coal mining base much needed jobs.

In 2018, about 4,178 billion kilowatthours (kWh) (or 4.18 trillion kWh) of electricity were generated at utility-scale electricity generation facilities in the United States.1 About 63% of this electricity generation was from fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, petroleum, and other gases). About 20% was from nuclear energy, and about 17% was from renewable energy sources. The U.S. Energy Information Administration estimates that an additional 30 billion kWh of electricity generation was from small-scale solar photovoltaic systems in 2018.2
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

Maybe it's a sanctimonious bullshittery tax?

[Captain Stern]

98. It's not a penalty. It's a tax.

Yes, I read your blog that you linked to (you're welcome for the 'click'), and I've read this thread.

Here's my main takeaway from it:

You admit right up front in your blog that the gasoline tax is a regressive tax:

However, in typical Alabama fashion the method devised by the legislature to collect those taxes – the state tax on gasoline has been raised by 10 cents a gallon – is a regressive tax. That is, the poor will spend a greater share of their income on the new gas tax than the middle class and the middle class will shell out a greater share of their income than the rich.

Then, you've spent a bunch of time on this thread telling everybody how the money doesn't mean anything to you, but it's so 'unfair' that you have to pay $48 more dollars a year than people who have far less money than you, and that are having their regressive gas tax hiked.