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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe really good news some 14+ hours after the Mueller Report
We may still have no idea what is in the report, but there is one thing I would have bet the ranch on, that if the report was favorable to Trump he'd be tweeting up a storm of "no collusion" long before now. But what we are getting instead from the White House is total silence. You know damned well that the WH knows everything that is in the report by now and not even one "no collusion" or "witch hunt"? Hmm....
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)...and with his favorite liar, SHS.
This report will be huge, IMO.
emulatorloo
(44,200 posts)This report is going to get realeased one way or another, despite what pessimists might say. At the very least Schiff is going to pull people in to testify. This thing is too big to cover up.
PatSeg
(47,640 posts)for once, Trump may actually be listening to his lawyers and keeping his stupid mouth shut.
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)All kinds of conspiracies could be spun out that that.
I suspect they had a good idea of what was coming and the muted response is intentional.
They'll have plenty of time to spin 'no Mueller indictments' in the days ahead. You can count on it.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Trump will get it before Congress.
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)The AG works for him.
If he did, he risked Barr potentially resigning.
It appears from what Guiliani was saying before the report was released that they knew no further indictments were coming.
Giuliani: "We're not expecting any more indictments from Mueller" 21 hours ago
https://www.msnbc.com/stephanie-ruhle/watch/giuliani-we-re-not-expecting-any-more-indictments-from-mueller-1463045699976
As speculation grows that the Mueller report could drop at any moment, President Trumps attorney Rudy Giuliani says theyre not expecting further indictments from the Special Counsel.
So the White House got a heads up well before the report went to Barr.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)It was a surprising, stark turnaround in what he'd been saying all along.
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)They also know about Rosenstein's letter saying the Mueller report will follow DOJ policy to not publicly discuss those not indicted.
They know they will be trying to restrain themselves from dancing in the streets in short order because the shady stuff is under wraps.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I thought the report would list the evidence that led to any conclusion NOT to indict. That's a disappointment.
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)It is a gigantic reason why I am upset.
With no new indictments, the initial version of the Mueller report can't say much we don't already know. It can speak in generalities but no specifics related to individuals not charged. Congress will have to fight for that and the evidence gathered (which they may never get - executive privilege and other legal hurdles). It took Mueller two years to collect it and he had the power of warrants, the FBI, etc. It's less than two years before the 2020 election. Congress is unlikely to get it all before then. Hopefully, we can turn that into an election issue - 87% of the country wanted the whole story.
The better bet, as some have been saying, seems SDNY and others nailing them in financial crimes.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Lonestarblue
(10,103 posts)Trump put Barr in place to end the Mueller probe as soon as possible, which he has done, and to hide any negative parts of the report. We dont yet know what Barr will be releasing, but it is not rational to believe that Trump and his campaign did nothing to work with the Russians or that Trump did not obstruct justice. He did that in public through television interviews and his tweets!
csziggy
(34,139 posts)For people not indicted by Mueller the information will be withheld from the public, which is considered fair. After all, if someone is not indicted under American law they are considered innocent so releasing the evidence concerning them would be prejudicial.
I suspect that information that might lead to prosecutions, even if those are not pursued by Mueller's team, will have been turned over to other agencies which CAN prosecute. Releasing the information that could be used might jeopardize future cases.
cilla4progress
(24,782 posts)agree.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)I cant help remembering how easily he trips over himself to get his slanted word out before he knows all the fact.
Plus it doesnt bother him to lie with every breath. If the facts prove otherwise hell just make up another lie on the spot. Its all cavalier to him.
I think someone accidentally misplaced his iPhone, thus no tweets.
notdarkyet
(2,226 posts)Trump is probably overwhelmed with the amount of reading and probably wont understand it which is why he has 37 lawyers. Shs is going to be real helpful!
SWBTATTReg
(22,176 posts)me a pretty big document covering a lot of stuff (the very definition of 'comprehensive', means covering a lot of relevant topics etc.). Which means that stuff probably was found. Otherwise, why go into literally 100s of pages if there is no need to?
We already know about the people Mueller has already indicted and convicted. On these people, Mueller has submitted quite a few documents (some w/ redacted information in them to the Court).
I would assume that there must be something in his final product that ties together efforts of the people that Mueller has convicted, describes more fully the efforts of the Russians to interfere in our elections, more fully describes the efforts of individual 1 and other individuals not previously announced by Mueller or his task force yet. AND most importantly, what remains to be done and what other work products have been farmed out to other federal entities (FBI offices, etc.).
ewagner
(18,964 posts)had the draft and read it line by line to Trump.
Texin
(2,599 posts)Get ready for a non-stop barrage from Breitbart and Fux News day in and day out from now to kingdom come.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,388 posts)The only possibility is that Barr still thinks he can get work after a spell as AG, so he's trying to preserve his own legal reputation by saying only he sees the report at first. "Muted response" is not a phrase the current White House would understand.
manor321
(3,344 posts)IMHO, Barr is reading it and hasn't given it, or any information about it, to anyone yet.
Jersey Devil
(9,875 posts)After all the things Trump has done in his first 2+ years, you really think that he'd let Barr decide on his own what to release from the report and to withhold access to it for even one minute from Trump?
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)that the report is TO the Attorney General. There is nothing in the law that makes Barr give it as is to Congress or the public. The LAW says that hte AG is to provide a summary of it.
When pressed at the Barr confirmation hearing, Barr made it clear that he would not be giving the report in full to anyone. He said he would do what the law required.
I don't hold the view that Barr will do strictly what's in the best interest of the country. He had conversations w/Trump about the Mueller investigation in the past, and disapproved of it. That was why Trump selected him. That doesn't mean he's unethical. But it does mean that Barr doesn't think much of the Report or the Special Counsel's task.
I think Barr may be more ethical than many of Trump's appointments. But I don't have rose colored glasses on. I think he'll do what he can to protect the administration.
Rep Swallwell has guaranteed that the people will get the report eventually. (Of course, we may be dead by then.)
Atty Turley has said that, by law, the report as is can't be released in full, because it contains classified info.
csziggy
(34,139 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Mind yu, I don't know if that's true. That's what he said.
That doesn't mean the DOJ HAS to give it to Trump.
OTOH, some other pundit said that the White House has no power to get the report in full. He can only get what everyone else gets.
So that clears that up...as clear as muddy water can be.
csziggy
(34,139 posts)From the Brookings Institution:
Attorney Generals Special Counsel Regulations
Dick Thornburgh, Mark H. Tuohey III, and Michael Davidson
Wednesday, September 15, 1999
<SNIP>
5. Reports
The Attorney Generals regulations provide for reports from a special counsel to the Attorney General, and for reports from the Attorney General to Congress. For the former, there are to be annual (section 600.8(a)(2)) and closing (section 600.8(c)) reports by special counsel to the Attorney General. For the latter, there are to be reports from the Attorney General to the chairs and ranking minority members of the House and Senate Judiciary Committees (section 600.9) on appointment of special counsel, on the removal of special counsel, and on the conclusion of a special counsels investigation.
With regard to the annual reports from special counsel to the Attorney General, the regulation (section 600.8(a)(2)) provides that after the Attorney General receives the counsels report on the status of the investigation together with a budget request for the coming year, [t]he Attorney General shall determine whether the investigation should continue and, if so, establish the budget for the next year. The rule making order (at 64 Fed. Reg. 37040) stresses that this annual report is intended to be only a status report and will not serve as a vehicle for ongoing supervision.
At the end of a special counsels investigation, section 600.8(c) of the regulation provides that a special counsel shall provide the Attorney General with a confidential report explaining the prosecution or declination decisions reached by the Special Counsel. The special counsels obligation to file a summary final report is limited. The counsels report is to be handled as a confidential document as are internal documents relating to any federal criminal investigation. 64 Fed. Reg. 37041.
More: https://www.brookings.edu/testimonies/attorney-generals-special-counsel-regulations/
So there is NO requirement in the regulations that the report go to the President. The Attorney General and the House and Senate Judiciary Committees should received reports last year - but then we know that the Republican controlled committees would have done nothing with any information detrimental to Trump.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)But one thing. You said, "The Attorney General and the House and Senate Judiciary Committees should received reports last year...."
That's not my reading.
The Special Counsel had to give annual status reports to the AG, but the AG was not under any requirement to report that to Congress. The AG gives SC reports to Congress ONLY on the appointment, removal, and conclusion of the SC.
csziggy
(34,139 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Barr will give Trump a rundown of the report, but it has to be read and digested first.
There's no doubt he'll say "No collusion!" no matter what the report says, but he has to get briefed on it first. He's also in Mar-A-Lago.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)the GOP, especially Graham (spouting "lock her up" , and t-rump's family knows what is in the report.
Barr is not to be trusted.
As for further indictments, Mueller and crew handed them off to States, my opinion to avoid pardons.
ewagner
(18,964 posts)when Trump pivoted from "No Conspiracy" to "No Obstruction"...
There's something about "unindicted co-conspirator" in that report concerning witness tampering, and obstruction of justice.
myohmy2
(3,180 posts)...trump's a political beast...he knows it's in the bag...
...nothing more to be gained by stokering the political fires on this one...
...no, not good news, bad news...
...
mucifer
(23,576 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)That's a lot. That's what we've been waiting for, what the Mueller team was investigating.
The one question is...there is no indictment for that or obstruction against Trump, but that's to be expected, since Trump can't be indicted (as President).
jayschool2013
(2,313 posts)for the graphic novel version that will then have to be condensed into a one-page pop-up book that "our president" can then actually have read to him.
Gothmog
(145,650 posts)SWBTATTReg
(22,176 posts)(rump holed up, not saying a word, in FL) is what a lot of speculation has centered on, in that the rump campaign, aided and encouraged from the top down, did in fact encourage a foreign entity to attempt to manipulate our election results. Pretty damning conclusion (IMHO) to reach, but logical, I think. The fact that rump has not uttered a word yet is pretty telling in itself.
The fact that lots of staff are all huddled down in FL with him is pretty telling.
The fact that if such a report has been issued, Wash DC is awful damned quiet. So the report must be pretty damning, especially against rump and repugs, which is surprising since Mueller is a repug too.
Of the previous stuff above has been speculated already so nothing new. There must be something else in this report ... that is a big shocker too. Otherwise, like others have said, rump would be pounding the pavement crowing about his innocence.
Response to Gothmog (Reply #20)
AncientGeezer This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gothmog
(145,650 posts)I have it seen any tweets from trump. It is well established thattrump is mentally ill
Response to Gothmog (Reply #55)
AncientGeezer This message was self-deleted by its author.
TruckFump
(5,812 posts)I was thinking about posting a thread on this exact point.
IMO, someone leaked something to tRump, et al. Look who the hell went Magna Loco with him. He went to golf? Whaaaaat? Why the WH entourage?
My second thought, I wonder if he might get in a plane, boat, but not a train, and leave the jurisdiction of the U.S.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)He tweets a lot when there's bad news a-comin'. He has not been tweeting like a maniac today, as far as I know.
His staffers are huddling so that they can read and analyze thoroughly the most important report ever submitted to the DOJ.
Someone posted that Mueller did not include a listing of all evidence, so there's not evidence stated that did not result in an indictment. If that's what you're waiting for, it won't be there. I suspect it's so it doesn't taint anyone. Also, there's just too much evidence to list.
TruckFump
(5,812 posts)If they did, I would not put it past Barr to have given a heads up to the WH.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)TruckFump
(5,812 posts)But I did not think that that so many WH people went with him.
Texin
(2,599 posts)He's down at "Mucho Loco" on his secure phone direct to Moscow strategizing as we chat here.
I disagree in toto with The Hoarse Whisperer. Narcissists don't cocoon. They might retreat for the few seconds it takes them to process news and information, but they react - and their reactions are predictable. Just look at their history to see how they deflect it and where it leads. You can bet your collective asses that he will be coming after all his "enemies". And the Enemies List is growing exponentially by the second.
I would say that we should all be spotting the gaslighting to end all gaslighting to begin no later than tomorrow morning in the wee hours. That's what narcissists do.
lancelyons
(988 posts)I agree. Thats what I was thinking. If he isnt tweeting about being exonerated.. then most likely its not a good report.
Im fairly sure that the President already has seen the report and guessing this is why they had the Cabinet Chair ceremony for Jeff Sessions that Barr, Rosenstein and Sessions attended. It was not a ceremonial purpose but to talk about the report.
We all know that Mueller has to at least have as much as the Press has already reported.
The report and Muellers work was never about indicting the president since thats against their policy so the DOJ cant just come out and say... No Indictments for collusion so its done and move on since that was not the objective of the investigation.
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)a few minutes ago, nothing for almost a day; and in both cases, it was about the meeting with Caribbean leaders or RTing something from Melania Trump's account.
It's Kremlinology, but the obvious possibilities are:
1) The communications staff has finally taken complete control of his twitter accounts, and is holding off because they actually want to mount a planned media campaign;
2) The political staff doesn't have the report;
3) They have it and they are still reading it;
4) They do not have a readout from DOJ they feel they can rely on for a media campaign;
5) They have it and it amounts to an indictment guide for SDNY, NYAG, NYCDA, or one or more other prosecutorial agencies for various individuals, from Trump on down, and/or a roadmap for impeachment of Trump;
6) They have it and it exonerates the entire Administration, the Trump Organization, and the entire Trump klan going back to Germany.
My expectation is something between 1-5; six hardly seems likely, because if the report is a complete whitewash, they'd be screaming it from the rooftops...
Keep your powder dry.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)took a pass
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)... by other bodies of the DOJ.
Also, since Red Don can't be indicted by the DOJ of course there's no indictments for him but he can be disignated as un-indicted person.
We'll never know if Barr doesn't release the whole report !!
The "no indictment" statement by a unnamed DOJ official is "THE BIG LIE" imho.
triron
(22,025 posts)Link to tweet
My question is: why did Mueller hand it off even though it was ongoing?
Still my contention that Barr somehow manipulated a premature end to the Mueller probe.
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)... and we shouldn't put it past him to do this.
Also,
If no one did nothing ever to anything or anyone that ... summary ... report should take five minutes seeing no one should be doing another James Comey and editorializing findings.
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)H2O Man
(73,634 posts)gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)Or indicted under seal. I don't really see any other possibility.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)The GOPer leaders are signally to t-rump to resign and are negotiating a less devastating departure scenario.