Dems should avoid turning the "full report" into the "long-form birth certificate"

[Azathoth]

Seriously, we've already done enough damage to ourselves by deifying Mueller as the second coming of Elliot Ness and Jesus Christ. The last thing we need to do is build up a cult of expectation around the hidden secrets in the full report. Yes, there are probably plenty of damaging details in there. Yes, the country needs to see it all. But we need to start managing expectations and proceed as if we expect nothing earth shattering to be revealed. Today needs to be our low point in the PR game.

Starting tomorrow, the current focus should shift to questions of national security and abuse of power, the stuff that fits squarely in Congress's wheelhouse. Every day spent arguing over Russian conspiracies is now a day Fox wins the narrative. The message should be that Congress has already moved past Mueller's very limited mandate.

[Iliyah]

1. Nope, the Mueller investigation report is real.

The long form birth certificate is real.

[W_HAMILTON]

2. Fuck that.

That wimp ass attitude is why we are in this position to begin with.

[UniteFightBack]

3. So not the same thing. nt

[Azathoth]

4. Why not?

The Birthers were utterly convinced the whole "Kenyan conspiracy" would be revealed if only the long form certificate could be made public.

[UniteFightBack]

5. We haven't even seen the report. It's been an hour since the letter. Please don't compare us to

birthers until we carry on about it for over 8 years.

[Azathoth]

7. I didn't say it was at birther levels, I said we shouldn't let it get there

I'm already seeing people on Twitter talking as if the full report will completely discredit Barr.

[Hoyt]

6. Basically agree. I think we need to keep working on this matter, but focus mostly on why trump,

or any GOPer for that matter, should not be elected in November 2020.

Today's findings did not help us. Unless Barr and Rosenstein flat out lied, spending months and months digging through the report isn't going to help.

[still_one]

8. Excuse me. Are you comparing requesting the full report the same thing as the Obama birth

certificate?

If so, that is bullshit

The full report needs to be released if for nothing else in the name of transparency, and because a foreign country interfered with our election process, whether that was aided by the current administration or not

The full report MUST be released, and the public will determine the consequences, good or bad in 2020. Anything less is a cover-up

[uponit7771]

9. So just take bars word for it?

[Azathoth]

10. No, get the report, but keep expectations low

Proceed as if it won't contain anything new. Shift the focus away from "collusion" and onto broader questions of how Trump abused his power and how he's endangered us and sold us out to Russia and North Korea, how he's financially beholden to our enemies, etc.

[uponit7771]

18. Hmmmm, I'm thinking liken Red Don's administrations unwillingness to turn over the full report to

... Nixonian like actions with the tapes.

[Azathoth]

19. Only works if they never release the report

If Dems make it the centerpiece of their attacks, and then the report eventually comes out and falls flat, we look even more foolish. Trump is smart enough to bait us into a situation like that, just as he baited us into deifying Mueller.

Democrats need to see the report. But they need to start lowering people's expectations ASAP.

[cynatnite]

11. You're comparing this to the racist birther bullshit?

Demanding the AG disclose the report will somehow turn into a racist load of shit is just wrong. On every fucking level.

The message should be get it out in the open.

By the way, Obama had no problem disclosing his birth certificate. The racist right chose not to believe it.

[jmowreader]

12. You mean, the long-form birth certificate controversy that Trump himself caused?

[Azathoth]

13. Yes, and which ended his 2012 candidacy when it was made public

If Obama hadn't released the certificate, there's a good chance Trump would have been the nominee instead of Romney.

[rusty fender]

14. Are you kidding me?

The birther shit is what made Trumpass popular with the right-wing nut-jobs

[Azathoth]

15. Huh?

I just said that. And Trump's candidacy imploded along with birtherism when the long-form certificate was released. Hence the risk of building a cult of expectation around an unreleased document.

[regnaD kciN]

28. Right. They demanded to see the certificate and got it...

...just like we want to see the full report, and should get that.

Now, maybe that full report will establish that Donnie and his minions were pure as the driven snow and never dreamed of colluding with Russia, in which case I’ll accept the matter as closed. But I very much doubt it, based only on what we already know from the public record. I’m guessing the actual report shows lots and lots of dirty dealings that will be a political disaster for Trump, even if it was concluded there wasn’t a case that met the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard. Because evidence driving voters’ decisions doesn’t have to rise to what is required in a court of law.

Furthermore, to turn your analogy on its head: say Trump and his followers had demanded to see the long-form birth certificate and Obama, instead of releasing it, had trotted out Eric Holder to issue a statement that DoJ had investigated it and concluded Obama was in fact an American citizen born in Hawaii…but then vowed to possibly release some segments of that certificate…eventually…maybe. Would that have been the end of Trump – or Obama?

[Azathoth]

30. It would have gradually hurt Obama at the margins, but not ended him

And it also would have given him the opportunity to release the certificate two weeks before the election and completely kneecap his opponent -- something I personally think he should have done, and something I'm sure Trump will try to do if given the opportunity.

I'm going to be honest, I don't trust the Mueller report now. I don't trust that it will give us anything solid to work with. I think there will be stuff in there that Congressional Dems can make hay over, but I'm pretty convinced that Mueller, for whatever reason, decided not to give us the nuclear ammo we were looking for. And I think Rosenstein is onboard with that decision.

I think talk about Russia and obstruction now needs to shift from discussion of specific crimes into a broader narrative of betraying us to our enemies and abusing power to cover up that betrayal. If the report comes out and happens to make a convincing case for crimes, great. But I'm no longer betting on it.

[malaise]

16. Huh?

Obama was actually born in Hawaii - apples and oranges

[Azathoth]

17. And maybe the report really does back up everything Barr says nt

[pnwmom]

22. And maybe there are sparkly pink unicorns living in the White House.

No, the report doesn't back up what Barr says.

[Azathoth]

23. lol, link?

[pnwmom]

25. The Barr letter itself, without even a paragraph from the actual Mueller report --

not even a complete SENTENCE.

It's just a propaganda piece that doesn't even address the main concerns about Trump -- not his collusion with the Russian GOVERNMENT, but with billionaire oligarchs outside the official government who were in a position to give Trump financial incentives for lifting the sanctions.

This was item #2 in Rosenstein's appointment letter -- "matters that might arise" directly out of the Russian government collusion investigation -- and a mountain of public evidence exists on Russian oligarch connections with Trump and his team.

[mr_lebowski]

31. I understand, while also understanding the OP's point ... we put our eggs in one basket once, so to

speak ... the smarter move is to not do so again.

YES get the report, NO don't cop an attitude like we know what's in it and if could just SEE THAT, everything we've said will be shown true. Cause we DON'T actually know.

I think it makes sense, strategically.

Just MHO.

[Azathoth]

33. It's not clear how much Mueller even investigated the "oligarch" angle

I'm getting the feeling Mueller read his mandate narrowly as the criminal side of a counterintelligence investigation, not as a general public corruption investigation. I think we're all forgetting that back when Mueller was appointed, the overwhelming question was whether there was a conspiracy with Russian agents to influence the election. It wasn't until later that broader questions about Trump's compromising business deals all over the place really came into focus. I'm not convinced Mueller saw it as his responsibility to resolve any of those questions in the report.

[regnaD kciN]

29. I'd say, knowing what's already in the public record...

...the chances of that are infinitesimal.

[Puzzledtraveller]

20. I agree

that being said, we won't, and we will beat the dead zombie horse to a pulp.

[pnwmom]

21. There's no way the full report doesn't contain a great deal of information that needs

to become public.

We can't let this glorified press release stop our determination to read the full report.

[Azathoth]

24. It's going to come out one way or the other

Either whole, or piece by piece through Congressional investigations.

I'm not saying forget about the report. By all means subpoena it and its authors.

What I'm saying is don't build our messaging around it because there's a good chance it will bite us in the ass if we build up expectations.

[pnwmom]

26. That's fine. And that's why Nancy has never been pushing for impeachment hearings.

Anything we do has to be built on a very solid foundation.

[Azathoth]

34. I give Pelosi credit, and I say that as someone who was very critical

of her preemptively taking impeachment off the table.

[EricMaundry]

27. Can't begin to tell you how much I disagree with the OP

Really. Just an awful post.

[radius777]

32. Trump is Putin's puppet,

and the 2016 election was stolen. Those are the facts, based upon all available evidence. That Mueller's investigative process was perhaps too constrained to find and/or prove beyond a reasonable doubt speaks to a failure/weakness in the system, the same system that 'allowed' someone like Trump to get 'elected'/installed.

I don't trust Barr either, who is a Trump stooge.

If we don't fight for the truth and justice, we make the mistake we made in the 2000's regarding Iraq, in letting the GOP bury the truth and move on.

It's about the long game, not just winning news cycles.