Teen boys rated their female classmates based on looks. The girls fought back.

[lindysalsagal]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2019/03/26/teen-boys-rated-their-female-classmates-based-looks-girls-fought-back/?utm_term=.3e7f391b6a96

By Samantha Schmidt March 26 at 7:45 PM
Yasmin Behbehani had just walked into her third-period health class when her friend asked her if she had seen the list.

“There’s a list of the girls’ names,” her friend Nicky Schmidt, a fellow senior at Bethesda-Chevy Chase High School in Maryland, said. “And we’re ranked.”

Behbehani didn’t want to see the list, or know whether she was on it. She had spent the past four years recovering from an eating disorder, working hard to avoid comparing herself with others, she said. But by her sixth-period class on that Monday earlier this month, a text message appeared on her phone with a screenshot of the list, typed out on the iPhone Notes app.

It included the names of 18 girls in the Bethesda-Chevy Chase High School’s International Baccalaureate Diploma Programme, ranked and rated on the basis of their looks, from 5.5 to 9.4, with decimal points to the hundredth place. There, with a number beside it, was Behbehani’s name.

More at link with happy ending

[dewsgirl]

1. This makes me happy. I had a severe eating disorder from

the age of 16-20, until I became pregnant with my first son. Throughout the last 22 years since then, I have had to fight those urges at times.
I am now trying to help my my youngest son's 16 yr old girlfriend who has the same issues. The fact that she is growing up in a different era, gives me hope.
I love that the boy that made the list, took responsibility for it and is trying to make it right.

[Locrian]

2. paywall site - can you summarize the happy part? nt

[phylny]

4. The young women got together and went to administration,

which initially did nothing but tell the female students not to discuss it and gave a suspension to one male student who started it. The female students persisted, feeling a one-day, in-school suspension wasn't enough. Then, they ended up gathering with male students and discussed how they felt and what such behavior does. Now, some of the female students are making a display about toxic culture, and they are discussing things with their male counterparts.

[Locrian]

5. thanks!

[Iggo]

19. Oh, good!

When I read "fought back," I assumed they made a list of their own.

I'm glad that wasn't the case.

[caraher]

62. Same here

Good outcome from a bad situation

[lindysalsagal]

72. First time they went, they only gave the boy one day suspension. 40 went back

and stormed the principal's office and demanded more.

They started an awareness group, the original boy who posted admitted he was wrong, joined the group, and now there is a fierce pressure to treat the girls with respect.

ONLY because they organized and demanded it together.

[Celerity]

7. here

https://www.heraldcourier.com/news/trending/teen-boys-rated-their-female-classmates-based-on-looks-the/article_726ecebe-e9be-55ee-b47d-4c576a5bbc7d.html

[Kind of Blue]

12. Thanks for the link. I ran out of the alloted

3 free articles a month.

[mercuryblues]

22. clear your cookies

or try using you in private browsing tab.

[Kind of Blue]

23. Thank you so much!!!

[retread]

3. numbers -- Shel Silverstein

[Kind of Blue]

15. Ha! Good one.

She looked up and down my perfect frame,
Then said these word that burned into my perfect brain.

She said, "Well, well, another one of those macho-matician men
Who grade all women on scales of one to ten.

And you give me an eight? Well, that's a generous thing to do.
Now, let's just see just how much I give you.

You comin' on to me with that corny numbers jive,
Man -- your style makes me smile, I give it a five.

When you walked up, I noticed that suit you wore;
It's a last-year's, double-knit, shiny-ass, frayed-cuff -- I give it a four.

And that must be your car parked out on the curb;
That '69 Chevy homemade convertible gets you a three and a third.

Now, as for your build, I guess it's less than a five,
Except for your potbelly -- I give that a ten... for size.

And that wine you're pourin' might be fine to you,
But I'm used to fine champagne -- I give your booze a two.

It's hard to tell what your flashin' smile is worth;
I give it a six -- you could use some dental work.

But it's your struttin'-rooster act that really makes me laugh;
It may be a ten to these country hens, but to me it's a three and a half.

And there really ain't too much to add, once the subtractin's done,
But since there ain't no zeroes -- I give you a one!"

[dustyscamp]

6. Many closed groups do things like this unfortunately

Link to tweet

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/3fxpk3/the_hottest_player_on_the_pro_tour/

https://www.thedailybeast.com/dartmouth-professors-sexually-assaulted-students-turned-research-department-into-21st-century-animal-house-lawsuit
The suit also detailed how the three men used their power in the department to freely objectify their female students by commenting on their appearance, including one game that Kelly created to publicly rank the women on what he called a “Papi” scale. The scale began at zero which equated to “would never bang,”

https://techcrunch.com/2016/03/08/controversial-people-rating-app-peeple-goes-live-has-a-plan-to-profit-from-users-negative-reviews/

https://arstechnica.com/staff/2018/07/ratemyprofessors-drops-hotness-rating-prompts-me-to-rethink-undergrad-choices/

[defacto7]

31. That's how Facebook got started. No one seems to remember or care.

[Rustyeye77]

8. It's disgusting when teenage boys...

act like ..... teenage boys.

Those damn hormones.

[DLevine]

9. Yes, shame on those girls for standing up for themselves.

After all, boys will be boys. They should just stfu!

[tiredtoo]

13. no, it is well and good

the girls stood up for themselves. 60 years ago when i was a teenager we would rate the girls. Just never made a list. I am sure the girls rated the boys also.

[Maru Kitteh]

35. No. What you imagined the girls did doesn't justify what you actually did.

Amazing how many men, supposedly progressive men, just will not get it. Still.

[smirkymonkey]

37. It's so tiresome having to explain this over and over again.

It's one thing to be attracted to someone, it is another thing to base their worth as a human being on how attracted you are to them.

[irisblue]

38. So much this.

[tiredtoo]

11. yep eom

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. It's toxic masculinity, and not hormones, that makes them weaponize their interest.

[Rustyeye77]

20. A list from teenage boys is now "Toxic Masculinity " ?

That's something.

I know any defense of men automatically means the alert is hit but just think about what you're saying.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

21. A list that assigns and ranks value of girls based only on their appearance? Sure.

Does it mean these guys are all incels who will never leave their parents' basements? Of course not. Is it on the continuum of toxic masculinity, which among other things assumes a proprietary and entitled interest in the female body? Yep.

[Rustyeye77]

24. Teenage boys ? Entitled interest in the female body ?

I'm speechless.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

28. It's okay! Sitting quietly with a new perspective is something many people won't do, especially

when it challenges beliefs they've taken for granted their entire lives, so I appreciate you taking the time.

[ismnotwasm]

42. That's all you see here?

how incredibly sad

[LanternWaste]

25. You appear the only one arguing this particular tact

But I get it... expecting a realistic standard of behavior from students can be a tough concept to realize. Best thing to do is trivialize the actions of those holding everyone to those standards to more effectively rationalize your own biases.

Good job!

[Rustyeye77]

29. Yeah well , any perceived defense of men...

is usually met with an alert or worse.

Can I start using the term TOXIC FEMININITY ? I don't think so.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

34. You certainly could; I'm interested in how you would define it.

Toxic masculinity implies that being a man relies on aggression, violence, status and sexual conquest, and that stereotypically "feminine" traits reduce one's manhood. It's all about achieving power over others through weaponizing supposedly masculine traits. What would "toxic femininity" be?

[Rustyeye77]

39. Wow...

So 17 and 18 yo boys who made up some list "mplies that being a man relies on aggression, violence, status and sexual conquest, and that stereotypically "feminine" traits reduce one's manhood."

That's right , any hint of developing male sexuality must be berated , called out and destroyed. ANd these happy horny males must pay a severe price.

Can't let developing males have any sexuality... must be destroyed and teach those kids a lesson.

My depiction of Toxic Femininity?

Wanting to destroy any innocent developing sexuality by labeling it as aggression, violence sexual conquest reduceing women to stereotypes....

Toxic Femininity ?..... seeking to destroy any hint of innocent sexual development .

Toxic Femininity?... see your post.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

40. Hmmmm.

So 17 and 18 yo boys who made up some list "mplies that being a man relies on aggression, violence, status and sexual conquest, and that stereotypically "feminine" traits reduce one's manhood."

People certainly have opinions about how other people look. Teens feeling an attraction to other teens is entirely normal, of course. And I think we can agree that sharing opinions with one's peer group is also normal, no matter the age. The issue, as many of us here see it, is when those opinions are weaponized -- equating someone's appearance with the whole of their worth, and then ranking that "worth" among an entire set of targets -- when things get problematic.

That's right , any hint of developing male sexuality must be berated , called out and destroyed. ANd these happy horny males must pay a severe price. Can't let developing males have any sexuality... must be destroyed and teach those kids a lesson.

Groups of boys ranking the looks of girls is certainly not uncommon, but assuming it's a normal, useful or healthy part of developing sexuality implies that competition, entitlement and value related to how a person looks are things we should encourage as young people in our lives look for romantic partners.

My depiction of Toxic Femininity?

Wanting to destroy any innocent developing sexuality by labeling it as aggression, violence sexual conquest reduceing women to stereotypes....

Toxic Femininity ?..... seeking to destroy any hint of innocent sexual development .

Toxic Femininity?... see your post.

If this is an innocent sexual development, would you say it's important that we encourage our young men to write up lists ranking the attractiveness of young men in their lives? What does it teach them, as they develop their sexuality?

Would you say a group of 25-year-old men creating a similar list of their colleagues in a workplace is an innocent expression of sexuality? How about 50-year-old men, creating a list of their colleagues?

Would you say that "seeking to destroy any hint of innocent sexual development" is a feminine trait, or a trait of toxic femininity? Where would a purity ball fit into this?

ETA: Don't get me wrong, I don't think teen boys are inherently "bad" or "toxic." But we live in a patriarchy, and the patriarchy hurts men too.

[Rustyeye77]

45. YOU labeled what they did as Toxic Masculinity .

I've said all I can say . I'm done.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

46. I did, because more likely than not it's an expression thereof.

Talking about what behaviors might mean can help us tear down the institutional oppressions each of us faces to a different extent. It's not about pillorying these specific boys (although I support the girls' actions and the outcome) -- it's about building a better society for all of us.

It's common to react strongly to these kinds of ideas. After all, when we grow up in a patriarchy or white supremacy, anything that pushes back on it is going to look weird, subversive, wrong or just plain misguided. It costs us nothing to sit with new ideas, though, and can help us find clarity in what we do believe.

Have a good day!

[Habibi]

54. Thank you for your posts in this subthread.

I applaud you:

[WhiskeyGrinder]

57. Thank you!

[Squinch]

52. Male "developing sexuality" requires cruelty toward girls? That cruelty is just "innocent

developing sexuality"?

Do you even realize that this act was extremely cruel and girls - whether on the high or low score end of this - have to deal with this kind of cruelty every day of their lives and are irrevocably changed by it?

You REALLY don't have a clue.

[Squinch]

55. How dare you disagree with what those young women did! They have HORMONES! Therefore

you are not entitled to disagree with their actions!

See how stupid that is?

[Rustyeye77]

59. Ok...show me where I said I disagree with what they did ?

I never said one damn word about what they did.

Go ahead... show me.


More insipid Toxiciity

Feel free to apologize when you can't find it.

[Squinch]

60. You called the calling out of those boys "toxic femininity." Hold your breath for that apology.

And how DARE you get snippy about my comment! I have HORMONES! By your own theory, that gives me the right to say and do whatever I want! Because HORMONES!

[Rustyeye77]

63. Again I never said anything about what the girls did.

I am damn snippy about you accusing me of something I didn't even comment on.

I would explain it to you but your TF will get in the way.

I'm done , go ahead... have the last word and enjoy it.

[Squinch]

64. How dare you accuse me of toxic femininity! My hormones absolve me of everything and

make any of your objections moot - according to your argument - because I have them! You are just being a snowflake because anything I say is just "innocent developing sexuality." You need to just accept it and not object to it. Because HORMONES. I have them! And according to your argument, that gives me carte blanche to be cruel and obnoxious and entitled!

... This is just too easy, but sadly you will never get it. You still think you need to explain something to me.

[Squinch]

36. How dare those girls demand that they be treated like humans and not

Best Buy appliances with user reviews! Those poor boys will be damaged if their entitlement is not honored!

Boys will be boys, dammit, and girls better just take it and never let them know how hurtful it is! Because hormones! And BOYS! And the unfairness of asking them to treat others decently!

[tiredtoo]

67. Methinks thou dost protest too much

But then that's just my opinion.

[Squinch]

68. That doesn't actually make any sense in this context, but ... you be you!

[athena]

43. Does that mean rape and assault are OK, too?

After all, it’s all about hormones! Who cares if one’s actions hurt others? Young women should just understand that young men cannot be expected to control their behavior!

I’m appalled by your lack of empathy.

[Rustyeye77]

47. Read my other posts.

And please, don't put words in my mouth.

Be better than that.

[Squinch]

53. Be better than to excuse shitty behavior toward other people on the basis of hormones.

That's just ignorant.

[MrsCheaplaugh]

75. This

MRA troll will MRA troll.

[Tarc]

82. Sure you're in the right forum, bro? This isn't the "just boys in the locker room"

website.

Why don't you run along.

[FailureToCommunicate]

10. Hmmm, wasn't this what Fuckerberg intended when he started Facebook at Harvard?

[gratuitous]

14. We had something similar way back in the 70s

Then it was called a Slam Book, a spiral-bound notebook with each page devoted to a different person. The book would circulate with people leaving anonymous comments on the page, some complimentary, but many as mean and vicious as middle schoolers can be. It was quite popular for about a week, when someone started a page on the person who first circulated the Slam Book. It was promptly withdrawn from circulation when that person got a look at what random people thought of that person.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

76. I remember slam books from the mid '60s.

They were horrible - most of the insults were about girls' looks and relative popularity, and some of it came from the Mean Girls, who seemed to be writing down what the boys were saying. Alpha girls being mean to low-status girls helped ensure the alpha girls' popularity with the alpha boys.

[aeromanKC]

16. Was kinda hoping they countered with a boys rankings list of their own

jerk/douchebag/dickness rankings list.

[Mister Ed]

17. I wish I were the editor of the school newspaper.

My headline would be:

Rank Ranking Rankles


Not to make light of the situation, though. I'm glad for the happy ending.

[Squinch]

26. Tons of entitled women-hating men in the comments.

[Rustyeye77]

32. You know...

Forget it... I don't feel like being alerted on.

[Squinch]

33. Poor dear. Did I say something upsetting to you? Want to get really upset?

Read some of the responses from entitled women-hating men in the comment section of that article.

[Tarc]

83. Did you finally realize that you might be in the wrong forum, son?

Move on.

[Pachamama]

27. My high school.....

This makes me proud to see how these young women handled this and the support the administration gave them....

It would be nice to think more of this kind of learning opportunities for both our young women and men could have and to combat Toxic Masculinity in this age of Trump....

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

30. Here's the truest thing in the article.

“It was the last straw, for us girls, of this ‘boys will be boys’ culture,”

All too often unacceptable behavior is tolerated under the guise of "boys will be boys" and THAT attitude has got to change.

[Polybius]

41. I work with someone in his mid-40's who does this

He’s always talking about his “top three” and who he would sleep with first. I don’t think he tells the ladies but he tells us guys. Terrible.

[djg21]

44. When I was junior high school many years ago

The girls in my class had prepared a list of boys ranked by their looks, and they weren’t shy about showing it to the boys. I’m not sure I’d ascribe a sexist element to this at all. It’s juvenile and stupid, and demeaning to the subjects no matter their gender.

[misanthrope]

61. You mean like something you would see in "Tiger Beat"

or the adult equivalent in People magazine's "sexiest men?"

[tenderfoot]

48. I just stopped in for the "GIRLS DO IT TOO!!!!" posts.

[MicaelS]

49. I was prepared for a similar list from the girls as payback.

What these girls did was magnificent.

[ProudLib72]

50. KnR

Now if this solution could gain national attention and be implemented in all schools, then we might be onto something.

[Rustyeye77]

51. Absolutely

Any hint of normal developing teenage sexuality should be destroyed and they should be treated like criminals.

Lets chemically castrate them now.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

56. What you are labeling "normal developing teenage sexuality" made teen girls feel uncomfortable,

betrayed, and unsafe. What's the next step after that? Fortunately, it's not chemical castration, which no one was calling for.

[Squinch]

65. It's cruel, and it's meant to be cruel. But hey, apparently cruelty is just a part of innocent

developing teenage sexuality among males.

[ProudLib72]

70. $50 says chemical castration will lead to a dramatic rise in academic performance

If they aren't thinking about sex every 90 seconds, they could focus on learning things. So, yes, I totally agree with you about chemical castration!

[treestar]

74. That's not normal

Haven't they been taught any sensitivity?

My sister often lectured her sons on how to treat women. They can learn respect for others as teenagers. There are boys who do not objectify girls and wouldn't think of doing this. It's the jerks who would.

[Rustyeye77]

77. This is amazing

you're right.

Male Teenagers looking at women and privately ranking them on their looks is horrible.

Again must destroy any hint of teenage sexuality.

Boys cannot have any thoughts of any developing sexuality.

But girls can have Tiger beat . People's sexiest man alive and Cosmo that totally objectify men.


You're right.. there are boys who have no sexual thoughts about girls.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

78. There's a big difference between the girls on the list in the article and the boys and men on the

lists in Tiger Beat and People and Cosmo. I encourage you to ponder what that difference might be.

[Rustyeye77]

80. Yes there is a difference

It's ok for women to express their developing sexuality but young men must be ostracized

ridiculed and punished if they show a hint of normal sexual development.

One poster wanted them arrested for harassment and assault for the rating letter.

Do we really want to make boys eunuchs if they develop sexuality ?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

81. That is certainly a difference. Not the one I was getting at, though.

The difference is not the ones doing the expressing, but the objects of their affection.

Women and girls who rank and talk about men and boys in magazines are talking about men and boys whose job it is to serve as those objects of affection. They want to be a part of that aspect of entertainment, and they are separated enough from the people admiring them that there is no danger of having to interact with them.

Young men and boys who rank their classmates are ranking people who are just trying to go about their day. Who are under the impression that the people they are sitting in class with see them as fully formed human beings, not dolls to judge and rank. The original article talked about the hurt, fear and betrayal these young women felt.

This is important: The outcome of an action matters more than intent when it comes to people interacting. The boys' actions hurt the girls. No one is objecting to young men finding young women attractive. We're objecting to their actions around it, and how it made the young women feel.

Objecting to that is not turning them into eunuchs, although I'm a little concerned that that is where your language goes consistently as you bemoan their plight. Asking someone to not be an asshole doesn't mean they can't be a man. It means no one wants them to be an asshole, that's all. If you conflate "being an asshole" with "being a man," well then, we're right back at toxic masculinity!

[treestar]

79. Tiger Beat is boys they don't see and know

These guys are doing this to girls they know. It is not normal developing sexuality to treat girls like that! Very few boys do stuff like this. Most of them would not. So don't call it normal.

[Gothmog]

58. These young ladies are amazing

From the article cited in OP

Instead, the meeting lasted two and a half hours. Several girls delivered personal and impassioned speeches describing not only their presence on the list but also their previous experiences with sexual abuse, harassment and objectification, both inside the school and outside of it.

“I feel it when walking home from school, I get catcalled by a man in a truck who repeatedly asks me to get in his car, and follows me home when I don’t,” said Rose Frank, one of the senior girls on the list, reading from a letter she had prepared. “I feel it when my mother tells me that my third ear piercing will ‘send the wrong message’ in a workplace setting, and that in the future it’s best to let my hair down for job interviews.”

As a father of two daughters, I am glad that these young ladies confronted this issue

[pansypoo53219]

66. pfft. i would list boys w/ their numbers. see how they like being a 3.9.

[clementine613]

69. Why haven't these boys been charged with sexual harassment and assault?

n/t

[Rustyeye77]

71. Absolutely

Total harassment and go figure, Assault.

See this is what I've talking about the entire thread.

For some stupid rating list lets criminalize them ...not only harassment but assault...even though it never happened. But that's ok because they are obviously danger to society.

Lets suppress any normal sexual development.

"How dare they show any developing sexual feelings...they must be thrown out of school and arrested.. then locked up"

Men must never have any sexuality.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

73. If the boys -- some of whom were technically adults, at 18? -- were in the workplace and creating a

a list like this, it would absolutely be grounds for a sexual harassment investigation from HR. So what better way to prepare them for the real world than to educate them, as happened in this article?