General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI've noticed my Chavista friends are surprisingly quiet about the 2 regiments Russia has sent to VZ
It's almost like they don't actually mind foreign military intervention in theory.
Brother Buzz
(36,455 posts)Last I heard was just two planes; one passenger, one freight.
Just so you know, I think things have bogged down in the White Hose after extensive efforts to explain the Monroe Doctrine to the orange anus failed miserably.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)They speak Russian, they wear Russian Army uniforms, and they clear all orders with the Kremlin. But other than that, they're totally just normal soldiers for hire.
Brother Buzz
(36,455 posts)then a pair of brigades.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Russia still uses the Napoleonic brigade system, for reasons I don't understand. Four battalions, at any rate.
Brother Buzz
(36,455 posts)There were no regiments in my chain of command during my years in the Mean Green Fighting Machine. I always thought it was a archaic term that was retired sometime after the First World War, but I see that it has be resurrected and is common use in today's Army command structure.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Regiments only exist on paper as a way to run administration and supply. The "Fifth Marine Regiment" doesn't ever actually all get up and deploy somewhere together; they'll take a battalion from the 5th Marines and a battalion from the 1st Marines and form the "11th Marine Brigade" as part of an Expeditionary Unit.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,136 posts)It's what they have deployed there.
UTUSN
(70,725 posts)I detest *ANY* blowhard jerk bully of the Right *OR* the Left.
roamer65
(36,747 posts)With nuclear warheads.
Remember Putin said he is not scared of another missile crisis.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)What a shitshow
DFW
(54,428 posts)But Russians aren't necessarily given all the facts, and they have even less say about what Putin does than we say about Trump does. Chavistas (or maybe now Maduristas?) have always thought that whatever kept the regime in power was the most just solution. If that now becomes Russian troops, so be it. Venezuela is still incredibly rich in natural resources. Putin probably figures, and probably correctly, that if the USA is too timid to jump into the current void and exploit them, well, he certainly is not. This is a first step.
malaise
(269,144 posts)On the other hand I am 100% against US hegemony and its imperialist agenda in this hemisphere.
The mess in Central America is closely linked to US banana republic policy.
The US does not decide who is President of Venezuela.
DFW
(54,428 posts)Both neo-colonial practices of 100 years ago and neglect after that.
However, replacing US hegemony with Russian hegemony will only make things worse. Putin would be only too happy to decide who is president of Venezuela, and would tell the rest of the world to butt out if it ever got to the point where he was given the chance to decide (Syria 2.0). I didn't like Chávez at all except when he mocked Bush Jr. at the UN. He made an nnecessary mess of what should have been South America's biggest success story.
malaise
(269,144 posts)Far from it - a few Russian oligarchs bought out the US and Canadian bauxite plants.
Those of us outside of North America in this hemisphere rather like the idea of a balance of power. Russia appears to have more influence over the US President and ReTHUGs than in other parts of this hemisphere.
There are way more Chinese investments in this hemisphere
DFW
(54,428 posts)But Putin was KGB when they owned Cuba. He knows what an advantage that was strategically for the Soviet Union when they owned the place. I was in Cuba in those days, and they DID own the place. They acted like it, too, and the normal population disliked them plenty for it--just as much as the elite liked them for it. I had been invited by the government (Cuban, not Soviet), so I got plenty of their point of view. These days, a toehold in Venezuela makes far more sense to Russia than Cuba anyway. Inviting troops in for security is EXACTLY the pretext used for their invasion of Afghanistan in the late 1970s. Don't look for those "security troops'" numbers to decrease in the near future.
I agree that subtle Russian influence over Republicans in Washington is far more pervasive than many realize. They have been working on this since the Soviet era, but used to be wedded to the hard sell. Igor Ignatieff (TACC chief in DC for a while) even tried to recruit my dad. When my dad told him, politely, to fuck off, Igor said, OK, sorry, he was required to try. I knew Igor slightly from my occasional visits to his office in DC, and he was a perfectly nice guy to chat with. I remember he was surprised that as a college student in Philadelphia, that I knew that the KGB had its own armed border patrol force. I said, Igor, everybody in America knows that! But he knew what his job was, and did it unhesitatingly. The Russians have always had the less subtle form of political seduction. The Chinese smile and quietly throw money at those most susceptible to accepting it. The Russians just say, "let's fuck," and have only slowly come around to understanding that there are better ways to persuading people to work for them. In the era of Manafort and Rohrbacher, I'd say they are catching on fast.
malaise
(269,144 posts)for all the global powers
DFW
(54,428 posts)In the 2017 German election, the logical coalition would have been Merkel-the Greens-the FDP. The FDP presents itself as a nebulous "liberal (literal sense, not Fox Noise sense)" business-friendly party. At the last minute, the FDP pulled out, saying there were irreconcilable differences with the Greens. My wife saw through it immediately. She said the FDP had sold out (literally) to fossil fuel energy interests, where the Greens were pushing for increased emphasis on renewables. Sure enough, the FDP party head has been making nice with the coal industry, pretending to be "worker-friendly" with the miners. Poor Merkel was forced back to a coalition with the SPD. But she refused to back down on dirty coal, and just recently a local old growth forest near me, slated for destruction for a new coal field, was saved permanently when the government said it was abandoning coal energy altogether. Maybe Lindner, the FDP boss, got a bunch of secret money from the fossil fuel interests, but his platform of protecting the worst of them fell flat.
Maybe that's the advantage of living in a small compact country located in a small, compact continent. You pollute the air and the water, and a highly educated electorate in not only your own area but three neighboring countries as well will raise hell about it.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)What's the line from Kipling? "Once you have paid the Danegeld, you'll never get rid of the Dane". If Venezuela becomes Turkey (i.e., a convenient launch platform) Putin's not going to let it go.
malaise
(269,144 posts)That is all
malaise
(269,144 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Or is that just the NATO staff?
Mc Mike
(9,114 posts)or deposing Chavez. I see the multinational oil company profit angle to destabilizing Venezuela. Keep that marginally accessible oil off the market, and the seven sisters can rape us at the pump.
I never knew whether or not I'd want to live under Chavez or his successor, but I have no passport, so what difference does it make? A useless hypothetical academic exercise, in realpolitical terms.
I always knew I didn't want the US big money right wing to use our peoples' blood to overthrow a competitor to the big multinational oil companies.
I'm totally opposed to Putin, always have been. The same multinationals that gave us putin's puppet tRump want to attack Venezuela.
I don't want Putin or his puppet tRump in Venezuela, and they could both be there operating non adversarially at the same time. Like Syria.
malaise
(269,144 posts)Mc Mike
(9,114 posts)aren't an extreme strawman position. I don't dislike the o.p.er for their viewpoint, but having some counter opinions doesn't make me want Putin in Latin America.
I wish the gringo multinationalist monroe doctrine types would just piss off. Not the o.p.er, but the far righties in mass media.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I was needling a specific person, and it wasn't you. My response to VZ right now consists of throwing my hands up in despair.
Mc Mike
(9,114 posts)in terms of conflicting member issue advocacy.
I remember having a discussion about Libya, where the post ers had past history re advocacy of eliminating Ghadaffi, or opposition. And they were continuing an old argument, instead of discussing the fallout from the fact that he had been deposed. I never wanted to live under Ghadaffi, but opposed the feelings expressed by our mass media who favored eliminating him.
If our country decides a leader is 'beyond the pale', unlike our saudi buddies or duterte, then I favor helping their people and sanctioning the leader economically.
I did notice the Joe Kennedy - Citgo effort, and put it into context of the large number of mutant oil company intel nazi repugs who swirled around the murder of his uncle. Helped some Americans financially, and hurt standard oil.
malaise
(269,144 posts)Who sent that drone that was meant to kill Maduro? n/t
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I'm still very curious about what actually happened there. I had associated it with that rogue helicopter pilot, if only because of when it happened.