Steny Hoyer: "...going forward on impeachment is not worthwhile..."

[babylonsister]

https://politicalwire.com/2019/04/18/bonus-quote-of-the-day-1133/

Bonus Quote of the Day
April 18, 2019 at 3:52 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard

“Based on what we have seen to date, going forward on impeachment is not worthwhile at this point. Very frankly, there is an election in 18 months and the American people will make a judgement.”

— House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD), quoted by CNN, affirming the House leadership’s strategy to avoid impeachment proceedings.

[spanone]

1. Kill Me.

[SammyWinstonJack]

8. NOW!

[regnaD kciN]

30. ...and the capitulation is complete.

[Nay]

91. Still keepin' their powder dry!!!

While these bastards get away with murder!

[brooklynite]

2. Sensible leadership

[angrychair]

5. Soooo

You're for trump being enabled to commit crimes at will with no accountability?

Interesting position. Hope that works out for you.

[ZillyZap]

11. Accountability should be a November 2020 blowout.

[LenaBaby61]

24. Accountability should be a November 2020 blowout.

That's if our votes count.

With tRump allowed to do whatever he wants to, with no guard rails, and with the Senate firmly in his back pocket supporting him, IF a Dem manages to get past ruskie interference, GOP voter-suppression shenanigans, Individual #1 WILL then say that the results of the 2020 elections are null and void, and I'm not leaving.

Who'll stop him from doing that? NO ONE.

He may just say I'm not even going to have a general election in 2020, go all Martial Law on the US. Suspend Then what? He knows he can do anything at this point. ANYTHING, because nobody is going to stop him. That's past frightening. It's signaling the END of our democracy, and it's been going that way since he stole the presidency in 2016.

[myohmy2]

93. +1

...

[angrychair]

55. Got you

I'm sure the 5 yr old child being held in indefinite detention in a tent camp finds comfort in who Congress is willing to hold accountable...I'm sure there is a colorful analogy there.

[ZillyZap]

57. Would President Pence or VP Haley rush down to the border to release them?

[angrychair]

62. Absolutely not the point

The point is, by example, congress is consciously making the decision to let the rich, white rapist do whatever he wants with no accountability (no criminal charges and no impeachment) while he keeps poor children of color in concentration camps.

Not a good look.

[brooklynite]

16. I'm for Trump not winning another term...

...after being "acquitted" by a Senate that doesn't convict him.

How about you?

[maxsolomon]

23. I'd take either outcome

Trump convicted or the GOP Senate utterly debasing any remaining credibility they have.

[TwilightZone]

28. Agreed.

I just don't see how a guaranteed failure to convict is good for Dems politically, but it seems plenty of people disagree.

[rufus dog]

67. you are missing the forest for the trees

Those Reagan Democrats and Obama/Trump voters have a different perspective. And there are a FUCK TON more of them as compared to you.

They see this as who is the fighter? Who is the winner? Who ain't bending over.

By not impeaching there will be a net loss of votes.

THIS IS THE EASIEST MOTHER FUCKING DECISION IN THE MOTHER FUCKING HISTORY OF MAN!

How hard is it to say, look, this guy is a currupt asshole, the investigatin proved that. tRumps entire life has proved that.

WE NEED TO QUIT BEING FUCKING WIMPS!

[TwilightZone]

68. Nope, I'm not.

You are missing the elephant in the room, intentionally.

He is probably more deserving of impeachment than anyone in history, but we need to stop pretending that impeachment is going to remove him from office. It's not.

And we need to stop pretending that "we" are representative of the majority of voters, particularly those who are apolitical or apathetic.

[rufus dog]

71. Yes you are

It doesn't matter if it fails with the curren Senate. THE REPUBS ARE UNDER PUTIN CONTROL.

Fail at impeachment, then single message, THEY ARE FUCKING RUSSIAN ENABLERS.

I ain't missing jack fucking shit!

I am fucking tired of dems over fucking thinking. Over fucking thinking to the point that I turn down turn down Wabash in Chicago and see that MOTHER FUCKER NAME.

The point is not winning or losing this battle, the point is winnng the big battle. Not impeaching show the Dems to be weak.

[calguy]

78. Maybe if you used a bit more profanity......

more would agree with you?

[angrychair]

63. Ok

It seems reasonable to you that being impeached in the House but not convicted in the Senate automatically translates to an electoral victory in 2020 because everyone is just going to forget what he has done?

Just forget that he was impeached and that he was literally the most inept and caustic political figure in US history?

That is one hell of assumption.

It doesn't occur to you that by not trying to impeach him it could have the same effect?

If you are going to entertain one likelyhood, it's just as reasonable to assume the opposite is equally as likely.

[brooklynite]

70. Here's my assumption:

1. Voters, including some Trump voters, voted for Democratic House candidates in 2018, NOT because of Trump or Russia (I know this for a FACT based on conversations I've had with many of our candidates), but because of promises to deal with economic issues: jobs, salaries, health care and education costs.

2. While it might be possible to deal with both economic issues and Impeachment, an Impeachment effort will absorb every minute of media coverage, and as far as our retrieved voters are concerned, it will be the only thing Democrats are focusing on.

3. When Trump is "acquitted" (and that's what he and his supporters will say) Democrats will have nothing to show for their efforts and voters will be likely to switch gears again and vote for Republicans making more easy economic promises.

[angrychair]

74. Ok

First off, to be clear, we are probably not going to agree on this and that is fine. At the end of the day we are on the same side and want Dems to win and trump to lose.

We can disagree without being disagreeable. If I've come across snarky or short I sincerely apologize. We can debate policy and candidates but on election day we need a united front across the board.

That said, the premise that its pointless to impeach because it can't get past the Senate is just as applicable to the position of why waste time passing bills in the House to just go and die in the Senate without even a vote? It's just as pointless as the impeachment argument.

House dems can do absolutely nothing for healthcare or jobs or education or the environment. Nothing. Because McTurtle is not going to even let it come to a vote.

Trump sure as hell isnt going to sign it into law.

We do it though. We have passed some amazing legislation out of the House only to die in the Senate. Why? To show that we are at least putting forth that effort and that the issue isn't us but the Republicans in the Senate.

That is no less true with impeachment. There is legitimately more than enough to get an impeachment in the House.
On paper at least, there is more than enough to get a conviction in the Senate.
That it might fail, like all the legislation we've sent to the Senate, is on Republicans, not Democrats.

I have faith that voters, at last enough of them, are smart enough to realize that.

To do nothing sends a message we don't want our name on: trump can do anything he wants and we are good with it.
The one thing American voters dislike more than anything else is weak and feckless politicians.

[brooklynite]

87. I disagree with your comment that there would be no point passing bills...

...that the Senate Republicans wouldn't approve. Because then we can say "we tried to protect Social Security / pass sensible gun regulations / raise salaries / improve health care" and the Republicans blocked us. We CAN'T say "we tried to impeach Trump" because the voters don't care about that as an issue.

[angrychair]

88. All due respect

Ok, its October 31st, 2020 candidates across the country are making their last pitches to voters:

If you think the average voter gives a rat's ass about getting down in the weeds if some given piece of legislation passed or didn't pass in April of 2019 you have a lot more faith in voters than I do.

But if they watched Democrats abandon them to just flop around and passing nothing (because we cannot but that's not the point because they don't care about excuses)
They just let trump walk all over them and slap them around a d do whatever he wants.

If we can't stand up to trump than what case do we have that we will stand for anything?
How can we say "we will fight for you" when we cannot fight for ourselves?

One of the few things I disagreed with Obama on was letting Bush and Cheney off the hook for lying us into wars we are still fighting 18 yrs later.

As an aside, I'm on Twitter a decent amount and the reaction on Twitter is very much the opposite of your perception. Not saying that is one-to-one comparison to actually reality but just one piece of a bigger puzzle.

[angrychair]

90. Another reference to the outside world

Note the number of likes and retweets.

Check out @BettyBowers’s Tweet:

Link to tweet

?s=09

[angrychair]

80. As a follow up

I humbly submit this link from Twitter as an example of people in strong disagreement with Rep Hoyer:

Check out @thedailybeast’s Tweet:

Link to tweet

?s=09

[Celerity]

65. +1

[RandiFan1290]

92. 1% would rather have their tax cuts. nt

[brooklynite]

25. My hubris?

I don't demand people agree with me. I point out FACTS and informed opinion. Like the FACT that none of our leadership think Impeachment today is a good idea.

And as far as my interest in the "horse race", that's how you actually get to passing health care, gun control, environmental reform, etc.

[TwilightZone]

31. How was that reply hubristic?

The entire post: "Sensible leadership"

You're seeing something that clearly isn't there or you have no idea what the word "hubris" means.

[Sherman A1]

39. Agreed

Impeachment while certainly a desirable thing for many is pretty much a lose-lose for the Democrats.

[delisen]

3. It will become inevitable. Schiff not Hoyer is the

conscience of the country

[brooklynite]

27. Adam Schiff: Pelosi "absolutely right" on Impeachment

[delisen]

54. No contradiction between what I wrote & 3/12

Schiff statement. Events are moving along.....

[irisblue]

4. You are seriously wrong Hoyer.

[uponit7771]

6. Hoyer is logically wrong here: the Russians are going to back thier whore again

[Fullduplexxx]

7. Sounds like hoyer needs a primary opponent

[Chin music]

76. He could'nt care less if he was done tomorrow. He's been there too long and is looking mighty lazy

and no longer interested in fighting for us.

[Fullduplexxx]

82. Sounds like nancy doesnt share his defeatism

[SHRED]

9. Why is he saying this now?

You don't verbalize this even if you feel it.

[Ponietz]

10. "Let's spot them a few more points"

The Blue Wave will fizzle and our party may splinter without direct confrontation. Any fool can see confrontation is inevitable. He wants us to wait more than 18 months so we can do HIS constitutional duty? Ridiculous on its face. 😳

[brooklynite]

19. Question: how many candidates in the "blue wave" advocated Impeachment?

The 50 or so that I spoke to said voters never wanted to talk about Trump and Russia.

[Ponietz]

34. Hi again--I don't know the answer to your question, but

did you talk to Ben Ray Lujan? I attended a town hall in April, 2017 and told him, directly, of my concerns. I was first in line to address him. The building was filled with people that wanted the dirtbag gone, even then, in the beginnning. My friends and I have waited, and agonized over two years about this. 2018 was a referendum. The majority want action.

I suspect some candidates may have used that line because they, themselves, did not want to talk about Trump and Russia. But who am I to know?

[brooklynite]

72. As a matter of fact, my wife and I had a private dinner with him last Spring.

We discussed target areas and issues. And he concurred that the path to victory, especially in the Republican-held marginal districts, was to focus on bread and butter issues, not Trump. As for the candidates, these are people I've gotten to know personally, and no, I don't think they're just telling me something I want to hear.

[Ponietz]

73. good luck with that hereon

I believe voter turnout in our favor was precisely because it was anti-trump. Our representatives must serve their constituents first, and then deliberate on how to win over marginal voters.

[brooklynite]

79. What is that belief based on?

My evidence is what candidates who won actually told me, and the fact that they were running and winning as moderates focusing on bread and butter issues.

[Ponietz]

84. 2018 had the highest midterm voter turnout since before WW1

You think it was because of ‘bread and butter’ issues, and I think it was anti-trump. They dovetail into one another and, I understand, many candidates couldn’t, explicitly, attack him. But I would put good money on the anti-trump surge rationale.

We were 63 million strong going into this and we only gained voters.

I’m not pivoting to healthcare again next week when the very living, breathing heart of our party, of our country, demands justice. It will die without it.

[link:https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/10/18130492/2018-voter-turnout-political-engagement-trump|

[awesomerwb1]

12. So in other words....

it's up to us to work our asses off, spend the time working for candidates and give them our money to elect Dems?

That's the opposite of inspiring.

Even if you think is not worthwhile at this point, don't discard it. Spin it a different way ffs. wtf Very demoralizing.

[bearsfootball516]

36. Of course it's up to us to help Dems get elected.

That’s the point of canvassing, phone banking, postcards to voters, etc.

[awesomerwb1]

44. Of course...but You missed the point. nt

[gldstwmn]

60. They have had all this time to formulate

a response that presents a united front and this is the best they can do. I am afraid this is going to split our party and completely fuck us in 2020.

[BlueStater]

13. Apparently, doing your jobs as lawmakers and stopping a corrupt president is optional.

Last edited Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Get rid of impeachment. It's an utter waste of a clause. If using it against Trump isn't "worthwhile", then it will clearly never be used against any president no matter how terrible they are.

[FBaggins]

49. That's not true

If the Russia collusion narrative that we expected had come to fruition, I’m sure that we could get twenty republicans to do the right thing.

That’s not outside of the realm of possibility at this point... but the report clearly gives them enough cover to support him.

[VOX]

14. And for the next 18 months, 45 will do/say whatever he wants, as democracy burns down to a cinder.

But gosh and golly-gee, don’t say a single WORD about impeachment, “it’s just not worth it.”

[Johonny]

15. And I trust the 2020 elections to be fair because ...

[brooklynite]

21. At least as fair as the 2018 election.....

[TexasBushwhacker]

40. And we kicked ass in 2018 n/t

[stillcool]

18. clueless..

What kind of a bubble do they live in? Is it the air? How can they be so out of touch? Do people ever contact their representatives?

[CrispyQ]

81. Do people ever contact their representatives?

No. Not often enough. It's hard enough to get people out to vote, much less to call their MOC's on a regular basis. The last time the People jammed the Capitol lines to our Members of Congress was the 2008 financial crisis. Are we there yet?

I guess not. Must be the air.

[CentralMass]

20. ...

[dlk]

22. If the House Impeached Trump & the Senate Did Not Convict, How Vengeful Would Trump Be Then?

Food for thought. I want him out of office as much or more than anyone. However, I’m afraid we will have to wait for the next election for that to happen.

[maxsolomon]

26. "He'd get worse" is not a legitimate rationale.

He has always been vengeful, and is going to be more vengeful NOW that Mueller's done. His potential future vengefulness is what? Purging the ranks of the bureaucracy and replacing them with loyalists? Currently underway and nearly complete.

Food for thought.

[dlk]

48. We can disagree...

Without a doubt, Trump is dangerous. In your view, how would impeachment make us safer? ( BTW, I’m suggesting appeasement. We should resist him at every turn.)

[sheshe2]

83. He has a finger on the nuclear button.

Think he won't wag that dog?

Food for thought.

[durablend]

32. If you think for a minute

He's not going to shit on us (and the country) for the next eighteen months *regardless* I have a bridge to sell you.

"ZOMG THEY'LL YELL AT US" isn't an acceptable excuse for not doing anything.

[dlk]

50. You Misunderstood My Post

[samnsara]

29. he could kill us all in 18 months!!

[TexasBushwhacker]

38. Pence isn't much better

I'd rather run against Trump in 2020.

[Cold War Spook]

33. If the House can impeach and spell everything out,

they can then use all of it against any Senator that refuses to convict. I think this is the best way for the Democrats to own both houses of Congress.

[triron]

35. Hoyer needs to be primaried. He is unfit.

[GReedDiamond]

37. Fuck this shit...

...and go fuck yourself, Steny.

[Quixote1818]

69. Agree nt

[LonePirate]

41. Who do we have on our bench to primary Hoyer?

[Celerity]

66. Going to be very hard to primary any incumbent, the DCCC has a blacklist now

DCCC Promises To Blacklist Firms That Work With Candidates Challenging Incumbents

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dccc-promises-to-blacklist-firms-that-work-with-candidates-challenging-incumbents_n_5c95126ae4b01ebeef0ec3ae


House Democratic Establishment Declares War on Democracy

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/dccc-house-democratic-leadership-suppress-primary-challenges-firms-democracy.html

snip




Ironically, many of those on the far left complaining the most will have their newly elected candidates protected (Omar, AOC, etc).

And, AOC and others did not even use the established vendors anyway, so pretty much only those types can still pull off a challenge. Maybe one will go after Hoyer (and fail IMHO).

[Takket]

42. Guess I'll just sit out the next election then

If Democrats are fine letting criminals run the country then those criminals are just going to keep stealing elections. So I won’t waste my time voting for change that will never come.

[Tipperary]

64. Then why are you even here wasting your time on a political discussion board?

Seems pointless if that is your attitude.

[Yavin4]

43. But that Ihan Omar though. We'll act with the quickness. n/t

[Chin music]

45. So pissed I gave so much time last year.

I gave til it hurt financially, and w my time. This glibe attitude of congress is heartbreaking.

[regnaD kciN]

46. I hope people realize that the subtext this sends...

...is “Trump was right all along. This was a witch hunt. We tried to run with it as far as we could, but have to finally admit that we were wrong. We lost and he won.” Now, tell me how that is going to help us in 18 months???

[flotsam]

47. Time to remind Mr Hoyer

That a national crowd-funding drive could easily lead to a very unpleasant primary. If we have to hold him responsible in order to hold trump responsible then that's a movement I'm willing to help fund.

[Sunsky]

51. Wtf?

I have no words.

[CanonRay]

52. I think they should go forward with the impeachment investigation

just in case the fucker wins again. I sure as shit do not want to start over in 2020.

[The_Counsel]

53. Seems Mr. Hoyer Is Missing the Point Here....

Impeachment is just as much a criminal process as it is a political one. If the President has done something illegal or unethical, s/he absolutely should be impeached. I don’t care if it was a week before an election: their butt should be impeached. Right is right and wrong is wrong.

It shouldn’t be about “getting the President.” It should be about making the country whole.

Take what happened to Clinton. He lied about a blowjob. Presidents shouldn’t be lying, so he was impeached. A blowjob shouldn’t cost one his job, so he wasn’t removed.

Now if you’ve defrauded a nation and then obstructed justice to keep from being found out, then you should be impeached AND removed. But the GOP is going to circle their wagons so Trump probably won’t be removed.

He should still be impeached, though...

[gldstwmn]

56. The only thing I can think of

is that Congress is going to use the time to the lead up of the election to build a case and then when it's too late for him to drop out of the race drop it on him like a brick. Otherwise this is fucking ridiculous.

[a kennedy]

58. Is this why I'm so excited to get NEW AND FRESH LEADERSHIP in the Democratic Party??

or do we need the “old guard” of the Democratic Party to run things??? Just saying, and just asking.

[BeyondGeography]

59. This is how the nihilists win

God Help America.

[Ferrets are Cool]

61. This makes me so sad for our country. nt

[moondust]

75. Premature.

Possibly premeditated.

Steny needs to wait for more professional analysis.

[marlakay]

77. I feel like if we don't impeach

He will get worse thinking he can get away with anything, and what if he wins again?

[Celerity]

86. If Rump wins re-election and the Rethugs hold the Senate, say hello maybe to a 8-1 HARD con SCOTUS

for well over a decade. Kagan may be the only liberal left. Sotomayor has really bad advanced diabetes, Breyer and RGB will retire or worse before 2024 more than likely, and Thomas may retire for new blood, new RW fascist blood, to step in. At lower Federal levels of the judiciary it will be even worse.

The country will be rolled back to damn near (maybe outright? ) Jim Crow days for decades.

Trump will go WILD in a NSDAP-lite orgy of deregulation and ripping apart all civil rights and oversight of the oligarch state.

Roy 'The Paedo Buybull Gunner' Moore is already smashing Doug Jones in the polls for Alabama Senate. That is a terrifying clue right there.

[Timewas]

85. It is in fact

Their fucking job to enforce the constitution and the laws of this land, they are actually complicit in the crime if they allow it to go unpunished.

[ecstatic]

89. Well f-u too, asshole!

And all the other smug assholes who are going to let this shit get normalized. If the past 2 years don't warrant impeachment, what the fuck does? Seriously, what could be worse, cowards? Call their fucking bluff. Start the hearings and dare the GOP to acquit that traitorous mf. Do not let them have the easy way out! Get these traitors on record!