General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf democrats like Steny Hoyer think letting trump go Scott free is a good idea, I would like to know
just what crime would trump have to commit to get you, like minded Dems, to do your constitutionally sworn duty and govern.
I cant wait to see how many of these milk toast Dems get primaries due to lack of willingness to stand up and do their jobs.
We have a ways to go yet before elections and a lot more trump crap is going to come out when the unredacted Mueller report hits. There is a reasonable chance that Attorney General Barr will find himself in the dock due to his obstruction of justice actions.
What kind of country have we become if we will meekly accept a self identified criminal stay in our presidency. We must not allow the republicans to kill our democracy. Accountability is the only force we have to preserve and protect our fragile nation. Democrats in Congress are the only wielders of that force now that can stand in the breach and resist the vileness that has infected our whitehouse.
We have in the past assumed that those running for office, especially high offices, had the best of intent and wanted to strengthen, not harm our country.
We are living in a nation that NONE of us created. We are the privileged children of selfless and far seeing forebears who sacrificed for us so that we would be able to have a life unlike that of any other in the world. Now the likes of Senator Hoyer want to just toss it all in the trash can and go along with republicans who want to pretend nothing happened.
If you, Senator Hoyer and those of your ilk, cant, wont, will not do your job and protect the nation from pillagers like trump and his republican boot lickers, resign. Get out of the way of real Americans who recognize the danger of allowing this administration to continue as if nothing has happened.
triron
(22,003 posts)Trump committed treason to win the presidency and is getting away with it, so far.
Stuart G
(38,427 posts)It does not mean that at sometime in the future, the time will right for impeachment....Why? Timing is everything,.
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I did think we should impeach, just to get it on the historical record (it won't actually DO anything other than that). But he makes a good point about the election. Since it will be ONLY Democrats who vote to impeach, probably. Because Trump can't be removed, I don't think any Republican would vote to impeach, knowing that Trump would get his vengeance against each Republican for that vote.
If it does cost us the election, will it be worth it? Do we have a choice, though, if we are convinced he committed a crime? Damn the consequences for us?
It's tricky. I'm sure the Democratic leaders will discuss this thoroughly.
KPN
(15,645 posts)who enable him accountable as soon as possible. If that means impeachment now or after a short period of investigating the Barr version of the Mueller report further, so be it.
Election consequences be damned. Not impeaching cements the message that Trump did nothing wrong. The consequences could well be worse if we don't.
ITMF now.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)and it's a big but (you should pardon the pun), I think it would take a more careful examination of the evidence, and some lengthy, perhaps heated, discussions among the party leaders, as they look in the future as to what might happen in different scenarios. And the best path for the country and for us.
I couldn't make a decision without some discussions among the best and brightest, as we all discuss it from different angles. It's not an easy decision, and people will disagree.
KPN
(15,645 posts)right. Congress cant let this go unattended. If this doesnt meet the standard for impeachment,what does?
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)to do Lord knows what, now that he has escaped accountability for his crimes. There really is no telling what he has done that we don't know about,and what he will do in the future.
If the concern is for the country, that is part of the concern.
It's not easy.
KPN
(15,645 posts)Impeachment for these crimes is a hell of a lot more justifiable and readonable. Just because Clintons ratings went up after impeachment doesnt mean tRumps will. We need to stop clutching our pearls in fear and do what is right deliberately and with conviction. In my view, wE are much more likely to lose in 2020 if we dont.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)KPN
(15,645 posts)has given (Hoyer particularly).
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)And I don't have a firm view at this time. I'm waiting to see what the Democratic leaders say and do. They'll huddle and decide a course of action.
cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)you can bet Trump and his cronies would use all the free PR.
Thats not to say impeachment should be off the table but rather if its done we should not allow the Repugnants to drag it out into the election.
Poiuyt
(18,123 posts)The press is drawn to him like moths to a flame. That's not going to change.
doc03
(35,338 posts)for a two year witch hunt that cleared him.
cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)majority of the voting public with more than two working brain cells should trust.
doc03
(35,338 posts)believe he was cleared and the voting majority doesn't
pick the president.
Poohbearpicnic
(6 posts)They are already ready to go after everyone involved in the FISA warrant.
Listen to Pelosi and Hoyer. They have more Cred than I (or anyone Ive read here)
You want Trump out?
Or do you just want to cry and rage?
I am so
Much more worried about finding a Trump killer for
2020. Biden (red meat )? Warren? Im sorry Bernie looks like hes going to blow an aeorta artery every time I see a picture? Whos going to capture Americas attention? People withdraw from negatives- always have.
Quit giving away participation awards and lets get serious about winning. Remember the media , while useful initially, is counterproductive - they would love nothing more than to report on how we screwed up by getting stuck on 2016. They are not our allies they are their own allies period.
Where are our electable warriors?
Im serious? How the heck do you beat Trump
And I respect but am not convinced by angst filled outbursts.
The adults win. The kids get put to bed.
doc03
(35,338 posts)on a mission to try and stop talk of impeachment? So you will be down with Trump getting re-elected with
Putin's assistance again.
Response to doc03 (Reply #109)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Dan
(3,562 posts)..because I think a lot will believe that we don't stand for anything - combined with a lack of strength and will to do the right thing.
Thekaspervote
(32,767 posts)Dan
(3,562 posts)Poiuyt
(18,123 posts)Democrats took over the presidency after Watergate and Republicans took over after Clinton.
Why Impeaching Trump Is Worth It
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/13/opinion/clinton-impeachment-republicans-trump.html?register=email&auth=register-email
They must impeach or voters are going to stay home
Cousin Dupree
(1,866 posts)What if there is no attempt at impeachment and then trump wins the election?
Dan
(3,562 posts)with a GOP congress, we will no longer have a Republic;
But in that case, we on DU won't have to worry, because our asses will be interned.
LenaBaby61
(6,974 posts)Totally agree with you there 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻
Hell, Hoyer's acting like we'll be able to VOTE, and if we can that our votes will COUNT.
A continuing theme throughout his campaigning in 2016 is that if he lost the presidency in 2016, the system was rigged against him. Also, that he may not accept the results if Hillary won. But since he and his minions helped him cheat to win the 2016 US presidency, he tamped down on that for the moment. Then he said that illegal immigrants by the MILLIONS voted all across this country, and when people showed evidence that it wasn't true, he started up with the "Fake News" crap. He stays saying that. Now he's back to saying that everything was rigged when Dems took the house. He might change it up and say I'm suspending elections for 2020 because it's rigged for Dems to win the presidency. He could say that he's not leaving the presidency and that he's appointing himself president AGAIN. WHO'LL stop him?
Certainly NOT senate thuglicans who sit by and watch him break the country's rule of law DAILY, and we know that most in the corporate media LOVE his insane, lawless antics and his over the top antics on twitter they talk about because hey, the ratings are KILLER that he brings them
Dems have to ALWAYS do what's right for the good of the country, and thuglicans DON'T. WHY even have a damn Dem Congress if they don't do what's right for the good of the country this time for us ALL? It's obvious now that per Muellers guidelines from his report, he felt that CONGRESS should take the hog in chief on the CONGRESS. And if I understand correctly, impeaching fatso is the ONLY way we'll get to SEE an un-redacted version of the Mueller Report, because you know that tRump's henchman Barr and the rest of the thuglican shills in the Senate don't want the Dems nor the country to see an un-redacted version of the Mueller Report. What's out there un-redacted is pretty damning as it IS! What's under the redacted parts of the Muller Report?
tRump is a LAWLESS criminal. He'll do ANYTHING to hold onto the presidency. On a daily basis he's turning himself into a Dictator and this country into a Banana Republic. That's obvious. What else is obvious is that thuglicans in the Senate don't care to stop him. They're walking in lock step WITH him in all he does on a daily basis in destroying the rules of law in this country. He's destroyed our standing around the world in just about 3 years, and Senate thuglicans don't give a damn.
Dems better do something, or THEY risk losing their base coming out to vote in 2020, that's IF we CAN vote at all and that's if our votes count.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)Because it would be even more dubious to start impeachment after that. That's even IF we won the House back.
Then Trump and his minions can go full Fascist. He will "cleanse" all the FBI and CIA's top officials, not just the director, on the premise that it is infiltrated by Dem loving traitors. Appoint another huge swath of judges, including probably Ruth Ginsburg. He'll go after CNN and MSNBC as well while dismantling Net Neutrality.
I think just as we don't recognize the nation from how it was a short 5 years ago, it will change even more. That's how it happens, as in Germany, if you don't imagine it getting any worse, it will. Because you aren't prepared for it or have any concept of the reality of it and so have no defense.
Impeach now, even at the risk of losing. While there is still this thread bare democracy. It will at least register this criminal conduct into the history books, and maybe set up a growing avalanche of resistance for 2022 and beyond.
DownriverDem
(6,228 posts)There are currently 14 investigations going on in New York and SDNY. trump could be arrested the day he leaves the WH.
As for Impeachment: First investigations have to happen. That has been going on as soon as the Dems took the House. Then the evidence has to be compiled and laid out so the American people are on your side. We aren't there yet. We still have a very divided country. With Nixon both sides came to the same conclusion that Nixon had to go. Goldwater went to Nixon and told him either you resign or you will be impeached & then tried by the Senate and found guilty. We don't want what happened with Bill Clinton. He was impeached and then the Senate refused to try him. What did that accomplish? It ignited the voters to vote for Clinton. Yes these are no normal times, but we need to do it right. Adam Schiff is a former prosecutor. He knows what he is doing. In the meantime work to get Dems elected.
sop
(10,185 posts)That's the one thing Mueller didn't include in his report. Apparently, looking into Trump's many shady deals wasn't part of Mueller's "mandate," so he likely referred the money stuff to other prosecutors. When they rip the lid off that garbage can, all kinds of nasty things are likely to come tumbling out.
House Democrats must also be given the opportunity to expose all of Trump's financial misdeeds during public hearings. It's the sort of thing that will sway even the most diehard Trump followers. Besides, it'll be fun watching Trump freak out for the next year while they talk about his money on TV.
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)SunSeeker
(51,557 posts)FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)Locrian
(4,522 posts)Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)PSPS
(13,599 posts)The unrepresentative senate will never convict, so why start a process that will just solidify trump's base? Maybe later as more comes out.
chowder66
(9,070 posts)everything they can up until the election.
louis c
(8,652 posts)...Everyone here wants to remove Trump from office. It will be far easier to obtain 270 Electoral Votes for the Democratic Nominee in 2020, than to obtain 67 Senators for conviction in 2019. In addition, if we are successful in going the Electoral college route, we guarantee a Democratic president. If we go the Conviction route, we still have a Republican President.
Let's wake up.
elleng
(130,908 posts)I don't accept it.
Let's see where Nancy Pelosi is on the question.
angrychair
(8,699 posts)He is essentially her mouth piece when she doesn't want to say it. He is the majority leader.
gopiscrap
(23,761 posts)Response to Augiedog (Original post)
Ponietz This message was self-deleted by its author.
TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)Just because they aren't starting impeachment hearings immediately because of your demands doesn't mean they're going to drop everything and bow down to Trump.
The binary thinking around here is getting a little silly.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Nor does it warrant impeachment. Not even a censure. Apparently.
My bad.
I have no idea what crimes a president can commit that my government would ever even consider prosecuting. Impeaching.
Well, besides lying about getting a blow job.
Maybe a strongly worded letter will suffice now?
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)on their face, that just might do the trick.
This is beyond frustrating.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)No amount of justifying non-accountability surprises me anymore.
I roll my eyes and snort and have for a good long while now.
That's not me being jaded or a cynic either. That's simply how it has been and continues to be.
As always, my government is welcome to show me just how wrong I am. (Snort/eye roll)
onecaliberal
(32,861 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Perhaps a time-out.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)increase his chances of winning - oh, wait, that was Reagan.
Then advise his Vice President who became President to cover up yet another operation, Iran -Contra by pardoning all Republicans involved. No coincidence that advisor was Barr.
They keep dipping back into the same playbook and employing the same cover-up engineers because it keeps working out well for them.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)The only thing impeachment is going to do at this point in time is possibly further "vindicate" Trump and rally his base solidly behind him. Many of the House gains in 2018 were in moderate to conservative districts that Trump carried and in quite a few the Dem won by a razor thin margin. They can flip back just as easily, especially if it looks like impeachment is Dem sour grapes over the less-than-damning Mueller Report.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... was useless last time.
The "flip backs" wont even help Red Don, there's no way he can be as popular as Clinton was in 90s, there's no comparison.
former9thward
(32,009 posts)He never broke 50% in either of his elections.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)former9thward
(32,009 posts)Not polls. People never learn that lesson. I saw polling on Reagan that was never good for him but he easily won two elections with landslides.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... I'm thinking they should have to have some level of security compliance for credibility.
RayGun had democrats to think for his elections (Kennedy and Duccause) and Bush 1 had dirty tricks
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Stuart G
(38,427 posts)..I think that the .."Time is not right"..Timing is everything in politics.
I believe that the timing will be right when all the information comes out about Trump. And ..I also believe that there is more information to come out about Trump.
When? What? How?...hell I don't know. but I think there is more...that is my belief..
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,002 posts)People in the tRump-Republicon Party love to write "democrats" with a little D when referring to Democrats who support the Democratic Party.
Please always capitalize Democrats in those contexts!
Lonestarblue
(9,990 posts)With two years left and his view that he now has his fixer in AG Barr to protect him from any consequences, Trump will feel empowered to do just about anything he wants. Republicans have just rolled over and gone back to sleep whenever Trump violates the Constitutional separation of powers, as his declaration of a national emergency to take money Congress did not allocate to build his stupid wall. Just this week, Trump vetoed the decision to stop supporting Saudi Arabia in Yemen. Trump was outraged because Congress was trying to prevent him from using his Constitutional right to decide our wars. He does not have that right, and if Congress fails to vote again and overturn the veto Trump will be enabled to start any war he wants. By next year, he will declare war on Iran. He and Bolton have been itching to do so, and it would please Saudi Arabia for US troops to do the dying to cause problems for their enemy.
Trump unleashed is a truly frightening prospect.
saljr1
(273 posts)He is not the leader of the party. He's a dinosaur and his time as come and gone. He's just a stuffed shirt and out of touch with the American people. Somebody please, primary him in 2020.
EveHammond13
(2,855 posts)FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)saljr1
(273 posts)Called him a dinosaur, stuffed shirt who is out of touch with the American people
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)I've had a few deletions over the years.
Anyway, that's why people are sometimes cautious.
Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)get away with it.
Look, I GET the "roll of the dice" that involves a political calculation, but at some point, he has to know that there are consequences to his actions.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)ZERTErYNOthe
(199 posts)One of my biggest disappointments during the Obama years was that no Democrats would hit back hard, not even Obama. We had one rep who did, and although he had some issues, at least he spoke the truth, and wasn't afraid to throw some verbal hand grenades (Alan Grayson). Here is a link to his video:
We had an even better rep on our side, Al Franken. He is the reason that we are where we are now, and he lost is position as a result. It also wasn't helped by our leadership, who not only allowed it to happen, but actively encouraged it.
I'm tired of people like Steny Hoyer negating the hard work that so many of us do.
I really hate to say it, but I think we need a Democratic version of Mitch McConnell.
Ligyron
(7,632 posts)It didn't buy us anything.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)stuff compared to what Trump's already proven to have done. Paying off porn stars and lying about it for starters, never mind taking an active role in obstructing justice as detailed by Mueller.
Not starting impeachment proceedings is an insult to the office of the Presidency. It conveys the message that the President is untouchable and can do whatever he wants. A terrible precedent going forward.
doc03
(35,338 posts)steal the 2020 election.
onecaliberal
(32,861 posts)Akacia
(583 posts)Why are people not up in arms about the fact that another Country meddled in our election? It boggles my mind the way some of my fellow countryman are excepting this.....
watoos
(7,142 posts)Of impeachment and give her 12 freshman Congresspersons.
Drastic times call for drastic measures.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)With absolutely no disrespect to any of the great Democrats when have served so well.
radical noodle
(8,000 posts)that wouldn't love to impeach trump. It's pointless to impeach him if he won't be convicted in the Senate. All it will do is make it more difficult for us to win in 2020.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)would make you persona non gratis here
George II
(67,782 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)and Democrats would claim it doesn't rise to the level of impeachment. I am disgusted.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)as I have already had a post removed today. I do hope we can gently nudge our leadership in the right direction. Maybe that is what they want us to do. Leave them no choice but take a stand. It is the principled patriotic thing to do. I have always believed we were capable of being both of these things -- far more so than some Republicans. But we cannot look away from the hard choices. Voters will judge us. History will judge us. The Right will spin our reluctance and throw it back in our faces. If we categorically refuse to bring charges of Impeachment against Trump given the enormity of his crimes, we are also guilty of obstructing justice if we don't do the right thing.
The majority of the rank and file back impeachment.
louis c
(8,652 posts)...let the House Committees have oversight and let's beat this asshole at the ballot box.
Let's try to stay away for the Custer Strategy.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)65% of Americans call for it. I am not getting how doing the right thing is a bad strategy.
It would be GOP defenders who would squirm as their tinpot dictator is torn apart before their very eyes. I want to see Trump forced to testify. He has not had his Captain Queeg moment yet. When he does it will be on live TV. I want Democrats to be there witnessing the event. If it was the 19th century, I'd want him to be exiled for life on a god-forsaken rock in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
He needs to be held up as an example to future presidents.
louis c
(8,652 posts)...it's 68% of Democrats, but 36% overall.
You see, in the General Election they let more than Democrats vote. Now do you get why the Republicans are baiting us?
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/20/politics/cnn-poll-impeachment-trump-russia/index.html
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Would you walk away from doing the right thing if this was strike talk?
louis c
(8,652 posts)...if the strike would close down the business for good or if the members support wasn't overwhelming, I would continue to talk at the table and not recommend a strike if the odds of success were equal to getting 67 votes for impeachment of Trump in the Senate. Now, a lock out is quite different. Then the issue is forced upon the workers and the company has made the choice. But, in your analogy, this is more like a strike vote than a lock out, and I would never advise workers to walk off a cliff in an effort to prove a point with no chance to win. It is similar. Would you want to attempt to remove Trump from office by impeachment or at the ballot box? So, when I evaluate a situation like this, we both agree that the right thing is removing Trump from office. As I weigh the options, I find that it will be far easier to obtain 270 electoral votes in November 2020 than attempting to get 67 Senators now. As we continue to use your analogy, if I determined that to sign a one year extension of a contract with the understanding that I would be in a far better position for settling a contract in my favor a year from now, that's what I'd do.
"The right thing" is not losing.
oldsoftie
(12,545 posts)I've always wondered about folks who would turn down a $2 an hr raise because they wanted 3
sheshe2
(83,770 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)All the people I communicate with believed voting out the Republicans in 18 meant we'd finally feel strong enough to take Trump down. We will lose voters who feel we let them down again by refusing to do something to correct the worst crisis in our nation's history.
You place a lot of faith in the ability for any party to honestly win 270 electoral votes clean of Russian meddling or hacking in 2020. I do not. The fix was in in 2016 and it will be again in 2020. If the swing states are stolen, we'll be right back where we are again with Trump claiming victory and vindication. That is just as much a risk as impeaching him. It is how a nation who claims to believe in the rule of law should act.
I kind of think the wheels are already in motion. I hope so.
louis c
(8,652 posts)...Some Democrats beat some Democratic incumbents because the people in that district were for impeachment.
But we won the House because moderate Democrats in swing districts, or districts won by Trump beat incumbent Republicans.
In order to control the House, a party needs a majority. Democrats beating Democrats does not add to Dem seats. Dems beating Reps is how we took the House.
As a matter of fact, few, if any, Democratic candidates in these moderate districts even mentioned impeachment.
Trying to tell loyal Democrats that the election "fix is in" does Russia's work for them. Nothing could suppress our vote more than convincing our voters that their votes won't count.
Let's take your theory to it's ultimate conclusion. Trump gets impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate. Pence becomes President. If the fix is in for Trump, why wouldn't it be in for Pence?
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)the only thing that will restore my faith in government. Refusing to do so is obstructing justice, somewhat spineless and I and many others believe will ultimately be more harmful than whatever spin the GOP attempts to use against us to prop up their corrupt president.
Pence I am unworried about. He has the personality of a dead fish. I doubt he could win an election any easier than Cheney. They will look high and low however to find the worst possible person on earth to nominate as they always do.
We need to keep the heat on Trump. It is not like we are manufacturing evidence of wrongdoing. Impeachment would send a message that in America no one is not above the law.
It may be an uphill battle, but I fear it is our generation's fight and we can't walk away from it.
oldsoftie
(12,545 posts)Dont spite yourself to prove a point. But that seems to be driving so many people
watoos
(7,142 posts)saying that impeachment is not off the table.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)There are different views:
1. Impeach to get accountability and make a record for history. It may cause the Democrats to lose the Presidential election, which ironically, means that Trump would be FREE to do Lord knows what, since he knows he won't be removed from office or indicted.
2. Impeach. It does NOT cause Democrats to lose the election, so it's a win-win.
3. Don't impeach. That has no effect on the election, which may or may not mean Trump wins. If he wins, he will do God knows what in his second term, knowing he won't be indicted or removed from office, and his supporters will stick with him, no matter what.
4. Don't impeach. It may cause the Democrats to lose the Presidential election, if enough Democrats are ticked off enough about not impeaching. Which means that Trump would be free to do whatever crimes he wants in his four years, since he knows he won't be indicted or removed from office.
No viewpoint is any worthier than another. NONE of them is "milk toast," as the OP name-called them.
Remember that you're speaking about Democrats who have performed well for years and have fought against Trump since 2017. Each viewpoint, and each Democrat is worthy of respect.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)In good conscience, I can accept no other option than impeachment of Trump. To do so would be to obstruct justice myself.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Some people don't know that. They got to work on planning their investigations back in January. They quietly work, and request documents, research, plan an investigation strategy, held a hearing with Michael Cohen, etc.
None of us is an expert in these things. There are things we don't know. For instance, I just learned today that one strategy could be to take our time doing the investigations, to make sure all the sordid details get out to the public. For the end goal of indicting him after he leaves office. Maybe impeach or not beforehand...but indicting him for his crimes would really hold him accountable. I didn't know that was an option.
Congress has more leeway in investigations than the Mueller Team, who was restricted in certain ways. Congress has a lot of power, being one of the three branches of govt.
This isn't a sprint, I think. It's a marathon. Pelosi is being very careful to make sure they have the goods before they act.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)It fortifies them going into this thing. Democrats like Elizabeth Warren and OAC are coming out in favor of impeachment. Do you know of others? We need to have their backs.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)But we don't know everything. Impeachment at this time is premature.
They're looking at EVERYTHING. Not just obstruction and conspiracy. They want to make sure the public understands, in addition to Congress, what Trump has done.
I also learned another tool could be indictment after he leaves office. Not just impeachment.
But it takes time to review, analyze, and conduct hearings. Mueller is appearing before Congress in May. So is Barr (again). Tax returns, documents from 81 people/orgs....There's a lot to do. There's no rush.
It's best to have the ducks in a row before going forward without all the evidence there is or before the public comprehends all that Trump has done.
Sounds like a plan.
First...they need the unredacted report. And the tax returns.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)when everything Trump says makes your blood boil. I sure hope you are right about the "plan."
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)to be able to list EVERYTHING Congress finds. Not just obstruction, but maybe conspiracy or aiding & abetting, tax evasion, fraud, whatever.
Then to be able to file a secret indictment for some of those things.
But the public has to be behind it, don't you think? And that means letting his crimes and actions trickle out daily for a while, while people get a picture of what has gone on.
Right now, many people just saw Barr on the news and think Trump was totally cleared. And that the Democrats just won't give up...personal vendetta. (Not the true blue Democrats, of course.)
It's not up to me. Maybe once they see the full Mueller Report, they'll go "Holy sh*t! This is worse than we thought!" and file impeachment papers immediately, saving the rest for possible indictment.
louis c
(8,652 posts)...deserves the country they get.
oldsoftie
(12,545 posts)These pouting whiners would contribute to re electing trump & we all know he doesnt give a shit HOW he wins.
RandySF
(58,835 posts)cureautismnow
(1,676 posts)I couldn't agree more with your bewilderment over Democratic trepidations toward impeachment. Not only did Gore "lose", the House remained in GOP control as did the Senate (a 50-50 tie) with Cheney breaking the tie.
For those too timid to act for fear of future elections, how exactly did the Republicans suffer for unsuccessfully trying to remove Clinton from office? They didn't. They obtained more power than they held before impeachment.
Begin impeachment proceedings against the traitorous Don the Con already and show the American people that we will fight for what is right.
jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)...and if he had been on the ballot in 2000 he would certainly have won.
jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)I'm on the fence about impeachment at this point, but Maddow just referenced the statute of limitations dates on some of Trump's crimes that have so far been revealed in the redacted report. They are in the summer of 2022. Of course he did not prosecute these crimes because he followed DOJ guidelines not to indict a sitting president. What this means is that if you go all in on impeachment when you know you don't have the republican votes, and Trump's popularity rises as Clinton's did when you fail to convict (debatable I know), and this helps him stay in office until 2024... then you indeed have contributed to letting him go "scott free" as you said.
louis c
(8,652 posts)murielm99
(30,741 posts)that you think Hoyer is a Senator? He is House Majorty Leader. He is a powerful Democrat with good instincts and a great deal of experience. He has good liberal values. The far left of our party wants to primary him, too, weakening our coalition.
Calling for his resignation is foolish. You have no right to judge who is a "real American."
Firestorm49
(4,035 posts)the fool would probably be pardoned by whomever the next president is. History has frowned on jailing past presidents, although in this sad case, Id like to see him serve a long stint. But, even if convicted, hell probably be set free.
Poohbearpicnic
(6 posts)Whats the mission?
Whats the point?
Flailing like a teenage girl who doesnt get their way or doing the job the constitution demands?
Are you going to unseat DJT through impeachment?
Really? Really? If so Ill be on the Voice next week - thats the ultimate -no way
Wouldnt it be better to show the electorate the leadership and integrity they have been missing
Or dont you care?
If your anger is fuelling your actions and thoughts,
You have already lost
Gotta be strong gotta be bold. Gotta be wiser
America wants hope
They dont want MORE dirty laundry at this point.
I am soo afraid Dems are going to put
Pedal to the metal right over a cliff.
2020 means so much more
Trump gone
Supreme Court - 1 maybe 2 justices
Put down the blunt and think long game
They will.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)NYMinute
(3,256 posts)That way, he is no longer immune from indictments and he can be charged then by OUR justice dept.
Collimator
(1,639 posts)I will be writing him a letter stating that Donald Trump has clearly violated his oath to protect the Constitution and should be impeached.
Would impeachment have political risks? Of course, but the more strongly the body politic speak out on this issue the more our elected officials will see that not listening to our voices is a greater political risk.
History books are full of "what ifs". I don't have all the answers and no one knows the future. But I know what I feel is right as someone with a layperson's understanding of our democratic union. I will not be silent.
burrowowl
(17,641 posts)starting a preliminary investigation and if Barr doesn't hand it over and this obstruction is allowed the US of A is in very very deep shit!
Evolve Dammit
(16,733 posts)amywalk
(254 posts)Steny is the same as all of the corporate Dems and we dont care what he thinks because he is Republican light. We need strong leadership and strong messaging from the Democrats in this time of peril. Progressive messaging is the way to win because most people given the details of a progressive agenda agree whole heartedly, but when given this information, couched in a right wing agenda, fail to represent most people.
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)What, exactly, has Barr done that fits within the statutory definition (18 U.S.C. § 1503)? I'm no fan of Barr's, but the only thing worse than an ill-timed 'shot' is an ill-timed shot that misses the target...