To those who say that impeachment is not necessary because the voters can decide in 2020

[Baitball Blogger]

Seriously? You don't see the flaw in your statement? Let me make it clear: How can the voters make an informed decision if they don't have all the information available to them? We have too many people in this country who will pull the lever for Trump even if he shoots someone in Time's Square. Do you think, that maybe, providing all the best information available to the public might at least help us win over the undecided voters? Maybe even instill a sense of urgency in those who usually stay home?

What can impeachment proceedings do for us? Dig down to the truth and provide universal information to the public. Wouldn't that be wonderful if we were all on the same page, for once.

[cynatnite]

1. It's about the voters overall wanting it...

If they won't support it, it could do more harm than good in 2020. It could backfire on the Dems.

I'm all for impeachment, but I don't want it to be at our expense in 2020.

They know what tRump is. MSNBC was talking about it this morning.

Can you imagine what would have happened had the Dems not won the house? This report would never have seen the light of day.

[Baitball Blogger]

3. "Impeachment" proceedings needs to be reframed.

This isn't about removing Trump from office, it's about giving the public the best information possible because WE DON'T TRUST BARR. HE'S A FIXER. Basically, impeachment proceedings are an auditing of the Attorney General Office's product. It's that simple.

[smirkymonkey]

6. +1000

[thesquanderer]

23. re: "it's about giving the public the best information possible"

We can do that through the investigations that are already in progress and others. But as soon as you call them impeachment proceedings, you risk 2020 doing to us what 1998 did to the Republicans after they went to impeach Clinton.

We can't simply make this election a referendum on Trump, and impeachment proceedings will do that. Trump can weaponize an impeachment attempt back at us, it will dominate the headlines and over-shadow everything else, and that fight is too close to call (especially if the Senate acquits before election day). Our candidate will not benefit from the distraction of impeachment proceedings. Once impeachment sucks all the air out of the room, we'll have a hard time getting out any message other than "we're not Trump."

[Andy823]

65. Exactly!

I couldn't have said it better, thank you.

[forgotmylogin]

40. +1 Exactly.

Impeachment removes executive privilege Presiden't Trump continues to claim and shroud himself in like that American flag he keeps trying to get friendly with.

[cynatnite]

46. I'm not arguing that...

I'm just not convinced the public wants it enough.

I blame that on our terrible education system. Most high schools don't teach the importance of government, how it's supposed to work and ethics. Most people care more about kitchen table issues like healthcare and what personally affects them.

Impeaching the president is not an auditing. It's a political process.

[Baitball Blogger]

74. defeatism is an option, but not a proactive one.

[cynatnite]

78. defeatism is acceptance without a struggle...

That's nowhere near what I'm saying at all.

I'm being pragmatic and looking ahead. I don't want this to be a process where we cut off our nose to spite our face.

I'm all for impeachment, but I don't think we should rush headlong into it without thinking which is being advocated here far too much, IMO.

[badhair77]

5. I have to agree.

Plus watching those MSNBC interviews with trump voters (who previously voted for Obama) say they think trump’s a despicable person but would vote for him again. Their reasoning is “he’s doing good things.” One said after seeing our current list of Dem candidates she’s even more supportive of trump. Blows my mind but reinforces the idea deal that Dems must push the idea of how we can make their lives better - health care, the economy, climate change, etc.

[Generic Other]

12. They need to be re-programmed

I heard one on MSNBC countering Russian interference with the argument that illegals were shipped in to vote for Democrats.

They need a daily dose of reality!

[badhair77]

24. I hope the Dem war room can come up with an effective way to counter this line of thinking.

This defies common sense.

[PufPuf23]

34. To not impeach offers far more harm than good regards 2020.

If the current Senate fails to convict, let those GOP Senators that don't convict be on the record for the 2020 election.

Failure to impeach Trump in the House will weaken the Democratic party and maximize Trump as a 2020 candidate. Not to be insulting, but folks including our leadership are whack to not see the obvious.

What we should be concerned about in 2020, parallel to action against Trump, is how to get more Democrats elected in Red States and rural USA so as to control the House, Senate, Electoral College …. Enough of "flyover" and "loss cause" and "change the rules"; FDR owned rural USA.

The Mueller Report has never been necessary for impeachment.

[TryLogic]

61. If the senate does not remove Trump following impeachment,

Repubs become the party that has no respect for the law -- even more than they are now.

If Dems fail to impeach, they are right there with Repubs focusing on politics rather than respect for the law, acting responsibly, seeking to uphold the law.

If Dems fail to impeach, how many angry voters will say those Dems also need to be replaced?

The House can pass numerous bills regarding health care, etc., which will show their values and goals, and still move to impeach. Looks like a win-win to me.

[trickyguy]

114. I didn't see MSNBC but I did see the front headline of my local newspaper. "Report shows

Trump tried to stop Mueller". We need papers and magazines all over the country

running stories about Impeachment proceedings and stating facts.

A lot of people still read their paper everyday. Like I do

[angstlessk]

2. How can we vote him out if the russians

have a greater voice in our elections than we do?

If not impeachment, then aggressive efforts to stop the russians.

plus any foreign players!

[Baitball Blogger]

4. Well, we know they're targeting our election counties.

That's a huge concern. But, that's for the FBI to handle.

[myohmy2]

7. absolutely...

...the Russians got away with putting trump into office once, they'll do it again...

...who's going to stop them?...you, me, trump, the tooth-fairy?

...our country is in major peril, let us act and respond accordingly...

...this is serious shit...

...

[Baitball Blogger]

10. Some guy on MSNBC hit it out of the ballpark on that issue of foreign intervention.

We wouldn't allow foreigners to come into our country and vote in our elections, so why should we allow a foreign country to influence our election process?

[uponit7771]

87. +1

[hughee99]

108. We do allow foreigners to come to our country and vote in our elections.

They’re called “naturalized citizens”.

[better]

11. That would be great, assuming we had the power to make that happen, but we don't yet.

Obviously we can pass something in the House, and the Senate might fall in line, but would Trump veto it? And if he didn't, would his administration actually enforce it? Unfortunately, this is where we see that while separation of powers does offer some crucial protections, it also has some serious drawbacks when there's an unfit executive and inadequate support in Congress to override a veto, even if we can actually get some things to the president's desk. See our involvement in Yemen.

I agree completely that we need to do something serious, and urgently, to stop election interference and respond to what I do consider an overt act of war by Russia, but I don't see it as an "if not" proposition. I want both. And in all honesty, the Constitution demands both.u,

It is true that we can't count on the Senate voting to convict Trump if we impeach him any more than we can count on them to allow a vote on any legislation. But legislation that fails in the Senate makes the news for one cycle, and then largely gets forgotten, and it generally doesn't get much public attention at all at any point in the process unless it's something of massive interest like their attempts to repeal the ACA.

Impeachment, on the other hand, is different. What comes of impeachment proceedings, both electorally and in terms of future action by DOJ, is not actually dependent upon the Senate, only whether or not the president is removed from office by the Senate as a result of the impeachment process is. Impeachment investigations will receive massive attention, getting the facts out to a sizable audience.

I don't fear any massive backlash coming our way at the polls. Given the weight of the evidence we already know about and the seriousness of the matters at issue, I expect that if the Senate does not convict, it will be the Republicans who face the brunt of public backlash at the polls. As was pointed out a few times yesterday, we're not talking about lying about a blowjob, here.

[angstlessk]

14. Thank you for this important response, how would a backlash

which MAY (or may not) happen be worse than russian (and/or other foreign entities) interference?

I would rather lose to Americans than to russians!

[Baitball Blogger]

18. You bring up a good point. If handled properly, impeachment proceedings is free advertisement

for the Dem message.

[better]

41. That's true, but by far the less important thing, imo.

The most important thing is that it affords us the best opportunity we're going to get to get the facts before the people.

I'm all for getting more support for the Dem message, but the point of impeachment proceedings is not to promote Democratic messaging, it's to uphold the Congress' constitutional obligation to support and defend the Constitution, and indeed our very democracy itself.

We'll promote Democratic messaging just by simply fulfilling that obligation, and arguably all the more so if we're doing it even at political risk.

[Baitball Blogger]

73. +1

[uponit7771]

86. Place holder

[Traildogbob]

47. Vote???

The Russians alone are not destroying the voting process. The GOPutins are suppressing, dumping, closing precincts, destroying/provisionary ballots, everything the can dream up to not allow Americans to vote. Now, Ivanka Chinese voting machines!
Name me one candidate that how straight out said they will go to war for voting rights and integrity, now. I know what I speak of here in North Carolina. 2020 will not fix anything if the vote fixed like it is here.

[uponit7771]

85. +1

[zaj]

8. You assume"information" is what moves people at the ballot box

Hillary, Gore, Kerry and Dukakis thought that too.

It's the catch 22 of being the only party that cares about facts, logic and reason.

We live in a world that needs us to care about it for them, because they really don't care themselves.

[The_Counsel]

9. BINGO!

"How can the voters make an informed decision if they don't have all the information available to them?"

This.

EXACTLY this!

In fact, we're seeing now that this is the EXACT problem Mueller had, and what Team Trump was going for when they obstructed the investigation. That was the whole point.

Trump should absolutely be impeached for this alone...

[DontBooVote]

13. God damn it! Hoyer said yesterday we should let the voters decide in 18 months...

The thing is, voters decided in 2018's Blue Wave election that the course they wanted Congress to take was to provide a check, and if necessary, to impeach tRump.

I have been saying all along that impeachment will lay all the evidence out on the table for all to see. I've also been saying that it is an historical imperative that impeachment take place. The voters have demanded it alreayd and if Congress does not impeach, then they need to be replaced.

[tiredtoo]

15. The Mueller report has done this:

Democrats had their suspicions confirmed. The cultists don't care.
Move on friends.

[Baitball Blogger]

19. All we have seen from the Mueller report is Barr's spin.

We need time to review and analyze the nuggets.

[PeeJ52]

16. And some Democrats are going to get so damn sick of doing nothing and losing that they give up too..

I'm getting to that point myself. If we continue to let ourselves get steamrolled by a minority of people in this country, then the hell with it. The Republicans own the states that will give them the electoral votes to win the election. If we let this die now and think that the Rebublicans won't put the fear of Socialism in the electorate, no matter what other issue there is, you can forget it. "It's the economy, stupid", to quote Carvell... or proven corruption and massive voter turnout.

[hedda_foil]

21. Thank you!

[HopeAgain]

32. Bringing knives to a gun fight...

The specialty of Democrats. Maybe a few more "strongly worded letters" will do it?

[louis c]

17. You don't need impeachment to hold hearings....

...oversight, intelligence, judiciary and banking can still hold hearings.

All we want is the information out there for the public, not hand Trump a talking point.

[better]

45. The difference is what can come from those hearings versus from impeachment proceedings.

Yes, committee hearings can get the information out to the public, but they provide much less opportunity for the government to actually uphold the rule of law itself like it is supposed to, because we can't trust the DOJ to act properly upon any referrals the committees might make.

Everyone knows that, which means that regular oversight hearings carry much less weight than impeachment hearings, and that in turn likely means that they will be much less successful at getting the facts before as broad a swath of the population as needs to happen.

Getting the info out there for the election is not actually all we want.
We also want our government to uphold the law in between elections, and right now the House is the only body of government that is both willing and empowered to do so.

[louis c]

50. Call me when you think there is an even chance to get 67 Senators to remove Trump...

What do you think has a better chance of succeeding, convincing two thirds of the Senate to get rid of Trump, or getting 270 Electoral Votes to remove him?

I thinking the later is where we should be using our energy.

[better]

67. Removal from office is not the only outcome of significance from impeachment proceedings.

Whether or not the Senate convicts, or indeed whether or not a majority of House Reps even ultimately vote in favor of Articles of Impeachment for the Senate to consider, impeachment hearings are still going to be our best opportunity to one, uncover the truth, and two, get that truth before the broadest segment of the population possible.

We can make information publicly available in committee hearings, but making information publicly available and actually getting that information TO the public are not the same thing. Outside of impeachment proceedings, House committees can only refer crimes to the DoJ for prosecution, and we all know how much faith we should put in that actually upholding the law with Barr at the helm.

Impeachment proceedings, on the other hand, will get vastly more attention, because the stakes are much higher, since the only people who can protect Trump from impeachment are Senators, and unlike the AG, they actually have to answer to the voters, not just Trump.

The argument you are making is that we shouldn't indict unless we are confident that the jury will unanimously vote to convict. If we followed that logic, we would very seldom indict anyone for anything. We should indict when there is sufficient evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Unreasonable doubt or apathy should not factor into the equation.

[louis c]

94. Oh,

. "Removal from office is not the only outcome of significance from impeachment proceedings."

You're right. losing the next election and Trump remaining in office for 5 and a half more years instead of 18 months is also an oprion.

I call your suggestion the "Custer Strategy"

[marieo1]

20. DJT's successors

And...........can we impeach all in the Whitehouse? Would that AH Pence be the next president? We have to think carefully about this!!

[yaesu]

22. If the tables were turned the fascists would shut everything down, including the government, to

impeach a Dem president, we need to do the same. If he gets away with it, the crimes will only get worse.

[louis c]

64. Ya, that worked out well for them last time.

We hold Trump accountable at the ballot box, and use oversight committees to get the info on the record.

That's the best strategy to win.

[yaesu]

72. Not doing anything will guarantee 4 more years of Trump. nt

[louis c]

92. Who said not to do anything?

There are four Committees in the Democratic House investigating Trump; Oversight, Intelligence, Banking and Judiciary.

That's far from nothing. That's just doing their jobs and getting the information on the record and out to the public so our candidates can use it during the 2020 election cycle.

Impeachment is playing into their hands. We will impeach and then the Senate will acquit. These assholes know how to message. Only this tactic can make Trump sympathetic prior to the election.

I call the push for impeachment the "Custer Strategy".

[Locrian]

25. i fear

that the political calculation being done to "not impeach" due to some weird belief in "turning off the voters" is failing to factor in the MASSIVE distrust of the entire system, and how this perceived business as usual / the powerful always get away with it damages our democracy.

This will just further the belief that "it's all rigged, it doesn't matter, who cares, they're all the same, no strength"

[FiveGoodMen]

79. "perceived business as usual / the powerful always get away with it"

It's not just perception.

We DO let them get away with it.

For the last four decades, we've ALWAYS let the rich and powerful do anything they want without consequence.

[Locrian]

80. yep - and the end result is the state we're in now - n/t

[CaptainTruth]

26. We need to win the White House in 2020. NOTHING is more important than that.

Impeaching Trump won't remove him from office (he won't be convicted in the Senate) & the GOP will use it to whip their base into a frenzy, jeopardizing our ability to win big in 2020.

I understand that many people believe he should be impeached, I get it, but we need to look at the bigger picture, we need to look at the best way to approach each individual battle to ensure we win the war, & the war is taking the White House (& hopefully Senate!) in 2020.

[Fiendish Thingy]

29. Fear based defeatism not based on facts in evidence.

You fear that your speculations would come true, and feel it is not worth the risk.

There is a clear and present danger to the Constitution, and protecting it is worth any risk- remember thousands have died protecting it- we can risk losing an election (which is far from certain) to stand up for what is right.

[better]

52. And in addition to the points of the previous response...

The GOP base will be in a frenzy no matter what we do. If House Dems fail to fulfill their constitutional duty to uphold the rule of law after we put them in the position of power to do so, that risks turning off and demoralizing our own base, as has been made amply clear here over the last few days, and that's a FAR greater risk to our ability to win big.

[Fiendish Thingy]

27. Country before party; protecting the Constitution is the most important Nt.

[qazplm135]

28. you don't need impeachment for that

oversight and investigations accomplishes that just fine without any backlash or political games or ya know an ultimate acquittal that impeachment brings.

[honest.abe]

30. Impeachment would be a bigger spectacle. Probably lead the news every evening.

An acquittal would be expected from a complicit GOP Senate. Nobody will be shocked when that happens. I think its positive-sum political gain for Democrats in my opinion.

[Timewas]

66. Let them vote on it

And show the world that they are either for or against the rule of law

[Blaukraut]

31. The problem with investigations

Is that the 80% who don't watch cable news all day long won't hear much (if anything) about what is being uncovered in these hearings. Impeachment hearings, otoh, would get a lot more coverage.

[qazplm135]

37. right

and so would the ultimate acquittal in the Senate.

[HopeAgain]

33. If somebody won't vote Dem because they tried to impeach...

Trump, they aren't going to vote Dem anyway. This is about finally standing up for the rule of law and a responsible excercise of executive powers.

[honest.abe]

35. Excellent point.

[TryLogic]

51. And a responsible exercise of congressional powers.

[uponit7771]

88. +1

[Paladin]

36. Impeachment has never been more justified in this country's entire history. DO IT! (nt)

[George II]

38. If you're talking about Steny Hoyer's statement, that's not what he actually said.

[spike91nz]

39. Agree

Time to lead and simply demonstrate a willingness to deliver justice to corrupt power. Consequences can be imagined to be bad either path so the cause for action is the current facts and current laws in context of our enduring principles. Trump must be impeached. If we go down it will at least be for the cause of aggressively fighting for the life and ideals of the republic.

[The Liberal Lion]

42. I believe we shouldn't worry about the politcs

and should just worry about justice. Justice demands that the filth in the White House pays the price for his treason and other related crimes. Impeach that fucker and let him get the trial in the Senate that he deserves. We believe Republicans will not remove that orange stain, but they too are political animals. Once they smell the true blood in the water they would respond accordingly or they will go down with that orange POS. Regardless of whether or not Senate nazis (oops I meant Senate GOP) will convict trump the House has a duty, a constitutional duty, to impeach that traitor and to impeach him now. This is their chance to stop being the Social Democrats of 1930's Germany and start being the only remaining major political party true to America. History is looking at the Democrats now, now is the time for backbone, now is the time for full out attack. Now is the time to impeach. We shouldn't think of impeachment as a process necessary only from a domestic point of view, we need to show our allies and our enemies that we as a people we not stand for the treason trump has perpetrated against America on behalf of Putin. Impeachment then becomes a tool for restoration of diplomacy and international alliances. Impeachment puts us truly on the first step, if it is at all possible any longer, in Making America Great Again.

[Timewas]

43. It is all there

The house has a duty to begin impeachment, laws have been broken and the evidence has been gathered. Being afraid to even try to do their duty makes them complicit in the crime.They are the "police" in this case and have seen crimes committed in a public forum, he incites violence constantly at his rallies he offers to allow people to commit crimes in his name and promises immunity or assistance in a defense against the charges... these things would get any "citizen" arrested and charged with a crime. In failing to prosecute these crimes committed by the "president" is criminal in and of itself.

[srobertss]

56. This is my position

They have a duty to impeach. I was willing to wait until the Mueller report came out and hoped that it wouldn’t be so obvious that he obstructed justice. Because I didn’t want to go through impeachment. But this man is incapable of upholding the law. The only reason he didn’t succeed in ending the investigation was because of his staff. Well, he has much bigger sycophants in place now, so if we don’t impeach, he’ll feel empowered to do anything he wants.

[Timewas]

70. Along with that

If he is tied up in impeachment process maybe do less damage to the country,at least slow him down or force his hand.

[BlueWI]

44. Sounds like the tide is turning a bit at least on DU.

Maybe Speaker Pelosi and Hoyer can leave it to the Trump team now to defend themselves against impeachment, rather than providing the defense ourselves.

The case for impeachment couldn't be clearer, and there are risks with every strategy. We'll see if we can stand up for rule of law or take the risk averse route once again.

[louis c]

59. Ah, the Custer Strategy

[iluvtennis]

48. Well said Baitball Blogger -- agree Dems need to get impeachment going for obstruction of justice.

[TryLogic]

49. Are Dems afraid Repubs in the Senate will actually vote to remove him

thus making some of those Repubs look responsible?

[MurrayDelph]

53. Lack of consequences is inducement for recidivism

Nixon was pardoned, so oh well move on?
Iran Contra was pardoned, so oh well move on?
Bush Jr stole Florida, but oh well move on?
Bush Jr lied us into a war we're still paying for, but we have to look forwards not backwards?
Bush administration illegally tortured prisoners, but let's just say we won't do it again and move on?
Trump colludes, lies, sells out the country to his friends and handlers, but just wait until after the election?

And don't get me started about Mitch McConnell and the Senate!

[Baitball Blogger]

76. I know, it's just grating on my sense of equal justice.

I'm not saying that America will not one day have equal justice, I'm just saying we're not living in that era and we won't reach it unless we continue to demand a change.

[stopwastingmymoney]

105. Add in Reagan and the hostages in Iran

And it’s exactly what I was just thinking

And it’s all the same guys in the background for most of those events

[Laura PourMeADrink]

55. Exactly. For once, it will all be there at one time,

In a formal setting, ticked off one by one. People will watch. It will help us and hurt them more. No one can argue against that.

[stillcool]

57. can't see the forest through the trees..

Impeachment is a show with a bad ending. Investigations and acquiring information are must haves. If you want the show, and are not concerned at all about the 2020 elections..go for it. I'm sure no one will listen to the media screaming every day how the Democrats are persecuting the President. Not to mention all the openings the show will give Republicans. I want to know, and I want to win.

[louis c]

60. 100% Agree...

...pursuing impeachment now is what I call the "Custer Strategy". You know how that turned out for the 7th Calvary.

[stillcool]

63. I go back and forth like a yo-yo..

but the negatives outweigh the positives.

[uponit7771]

84. "Impeachment is a show with a bad ending" there's no evidence of this. Clinton false equivalency has

... been debunked.

[louis c]

96. It has not been "debunked"

...you need 67 Senators. Call me when you get to 60.

[uponit7771]

97. Yes it has, O'Donnel gave the scoop on that lie this morning. Republicans won house and senate ...

... and then the presidency after Clinton impeachment.

Clinton was a popular president at the time of the midterms but not popular enough to overturn those houses.

Republicans did the right thing and won politically

[louis c]

99. Democratic gains in both branches.

And we're talking about a Presidential re-election. Clinton's poll numbers rose after the impeachment try.

If Gore didn't distance himself from Clinton, he would have won.

O'Donnell debunked bullshit.

[uponit7771]

100. Gains are irrelevant at best, that's obscures from the point republicans impeached and ...

... and won the senate, house and then the presidency afterwards.

That was stupid for Gore to run from Clinton but Clinton's honesty numbers were in the dumps ... overall though it was a mistake.

Clinton's popularity didn't help win back congress though and Clinton's numbers tanked post impeachment among republicans.

I was under the impression from the way words were used relating to post Clinton impeachment that democrats took control ... that's false.

There was no change of hand in congress.

That doesn't sound like a mistake for republicans to impeach

[stillcool]

103. What does Clinton have to do...

with a Republican Senate, and a Republican party that's only purpose is to obstruct, and cover-up?

[uponit7771]

106. Republican house impeached Clinton but republican senate wouldn't remove him and republicans

... won back the house, senate and presidency.

There's been false equivalencies to now

[stillcool]

107. I don't see any correlation....

between then and now. We have never been here before.

[-Steph-]

58. This is what people voted for in 2018. We had a gigantic blue wave because people wanted there to

be a check on this crooked administration. In my opinion, the people have already voted on this issue and we need to move forward with impeachment proceedings.

[marylandblue]

62. I am not sure what the answer is. The founders made certain assumptions about how

Congress and the people would act against an unfit President. We are not acting that way. Since the assumptions don't hold, impeachment will not solve our problem and could make it worse.

I do think we should fast track our investigations, get the whole report, and start subpoenaing a lot more people. If that has to be called impeachment, so be it. But it still doesn't solve our real problem, which is that our political system itself is failing, it may already be broken beyond repair.

[pdsimdars]

68. It's their job. Meechum brought up what was said at the constitutional convention on O'Donnell

[Pobeka]

69. IMHO if they don't impeach then DEMS lose in 2020

It is almost certain the Senate will not convict after the impeachment. So let's take that as a given.

If the house doesn't impeach then the voters will see no reason to support DEMs because they are weak. DEM's will pass no new laws that affect the voter's pocketbook or lives because it will all be blocked in the senate.

If the house does impeach and the conviction fails in the senate, voters will see that the real problem is GOP in the senate, and there will be a backlash on those senate GOP seats. DEMs then could have the house, the senate and the white house. And then DEMs would have a real chance to fix all levels of political corruption, make sure Trump et. al. face real consequences (assuming he's not fled to Russia).

On emoluments alone Trump is impeachable.
On forced security clearances alone Trump is impeachable.
Clearly on obstruction alone Trump is impeachable.
Publicly asking for wikileaks/Russia to hack the Clinton campaign emails is impeachable.

[Richard D]

71. It's a similar idea to saying of a murderer . . .

. . . no need to prosecute, take to trial and punish because he or she will eventually die anyway.

[calimary]

75. AND - even more worrisome: are they NOT aware that nothing's been done to stop Russia from violating

our sovereignty again? NOTHING’S been done. I submit, again, that nothing’s been done on this because they want that help AGAIN. I suspect they want that help even more desperately now, since the cover’s been blown and Democrats have made decisive hard-to-ignore gains in the House of Reps and in state legislatures across America.

Their “Job One” going forward is to try to blunt those gains, take it all back, flip the House to red again so Kevin McCarthy gets to take the Speaker’s gavel from Nancy Pelosi, and all those inconvenient and annoying committee investigations can come to an end. And they know it’s an uphill battle with everything the public is starting to see some of the hidden truths. That’s why they’re working so desperately hard on the “no collusion” crap and what I just heard MSNBC’s Kristen Welker say about a GOP wish to “turn the page” and try to lead the public perception toward moving on to other crimes-OOPS-I-mean-“agenda-priorities”.

Just watch: they’re gonna try in one way or other to push the “we need to move on” stuff hard. They’ll push the “nothing to see here” and “no collusion” crap AND the “now we need to investigate the investigators!” crap. They’ll try to obstruct and drag out the process long enough that the Dems can’t get much done on the very necessary investigations now underway, til they hope they can regain the House and stop that pursuit of accountability cold.

They want Devin Nunes back in Schiff’s Intel Committee chairman’s Chair. Sure was pretty effective last time, ‘eh? They want Congressman See-No-Evil chairing the Judiciary Committee. They want Congressman Hear-No-Evil back in charge at Ways and Means. They want Congressman Speak-No-Evil running the Financial Services Committee again. And Congressman Sergeant-Schultz back in control of the Oversight and Reform Committee. Why? Because then they can muffle all those inconvenient questions and make all that bothersome investigation stuff go AWAY. And once again, the way will be smoothed for their lord and master to do whatever-the-fuck he wants. With impunity.

THAT’S why we need to keep the pressure up, protect AND BUILD ON our gains in 2020, and Get Out The Vote like our lives, liberty, and our very democracy depend on it. Because they DO.

We CAN’T let up.

We CAN’T AFFORD TO let up.

And we sure as hell can’t rest on our 2018 laurels or decide we’ve “got this” and roll over and go back to sleep like we did in the 1970s. When we thought we “got this” and the ERA was almost a done deal (we’re there! Just three more states!) and Vietnam was finally over and we’d gotten rid of Nixon leftover Gerald Ford and put Jimmy Carter in the White House.

DO NOT forget what happened then. Carter was cheated out of a second term and the dreadful age of Reagan and the long-desired wrong-wing rebirth and return to dominance began.

[Baitball Blogger]

82. Hope you post this as its own thread.

[uponit7771]

89. +1

[50 Shades Of Blue]

77. K & R!

[SunSeeker]

81. K & R

[uponit7771]

83. *****THIS***** Not only that how in the hell do we trust Russia isnt going to help Red Don in 2020!!

[rogue emissary]

90. +1000

[Cold War Spook]

91. It seems that many Democrats do not want Trump impeached.

They are afraid we could lose big. Then why don't the Democrats run on all the issues that give them a better chance to get elected, as the Republicans do? How about the House investigate Clinton's emails?

[louis c]

98. 67 Senators.

Jesus Christ. Can't Democrats count?

It is going to be easier to get 270 electoral votes in 2020 than 67 Senators in 2019.

Please don't tell me we can do both. There is a reason that ONLY the Republicans talked about impeachment in the mid-terms. It's because an impeachment drive only helps them.

[TexasBushwhacker]

93. I fear Pence would be harder to beat n/t

[Yavin4]

95. Democrats: "Hey voters. You should vote for us because Trump is a criminal."

Voters: "He is? Then why didn't you impeach him if he's a criminal."

Dems: "Weeeelll, he's not really worth impeaching. Besides, the Republican senate wouldn't remove him from office anyway."

Voters: "But if he really is a criminal and present compelling evidence of his guilt, wouldn't that mean that the Republicans were aiding and abetting a criminal. "

Dems: "Yeah, but we'd rather the voters remove him not the senate."

Voters: "If you want me to do the work of congress, then I should get the same pay and benefits that congress gets."

[Chin music]

101. I'm picking up what you're "laying down."

If there's nothing to hide? Why all the falderal? Gop...let's open up the books.
HONEST factual collection under a Congressional oath. THEY have created the old fake news mantra. Doesn't hurt to be crystal clear...in my estimation.

[tymorial]

102. First of all who doesnt have all of the information?

If they dont by now then impeachment isnt going to change the lack of being informed other than "trump was impeached"

From there it's a matter of what news they read or view. If its conservative oriented then the narrative is "hit job and lies" if it's the left then they will learn what is already available (or more if new details come to light).


Make no mistake in a perfect world I believe Trump should be impeached. As I have said before we do not live in a perfect world and there is no chance the Senate is going to vote to remove him. McConnell will not even allow that vote to be taken.

Further Democrats in red States already have a difficult fight ahead and I can see how some Representatives will not vote to impeach in order to maintain their office. We need those house members because 2020 is not guaranteed. If Trump by some miracle stays at office then we must have the house. As much as I would love to see Trump removed from office maintaining the majority in the House of Representatives should be equal to defeating trump in 2020

[Baitball Blogger]

111. I was watching the MSNBC interviews on the street, and was surprised to hear

people who don't like Trump making comments like, there's nothing new in the report. What?

Barr's spin seems to have worked for those who don't get their news from social media.

[Trumpocalypse]

104. Congressional investigations and

hearings can accomplish the same goal without an acquittal in the Senate.

[Shoonra]

109. Don't impeach Trump until ....

Don't try to impeach Trump until the Senate is going to cooperate. Indicting Trump in the House but having him acquitted in the Senate will actually make Trump look GOOD to voters in 2020. He'll have been found Not Guilty. So do the homework and get the Senate in line.

[MasonDreams]

112. IMPEACH before the Reichstag fire!

[cstanleytech]

113. To be fair that was months ago but now the report by Mueller is in and I suspect

there is enough that was redacted by Barr that it more than justifies impeachment which is why I suspect he redacted it in the first place as he is probably doing what he agreed to do for the job in the first place.

[joet67]

115. history will judge us

[sweetroxie]

116. We can't leave it for 2020

Our election system is primitive and very fallible, not to mention the interference of "other" players, e.g. Russia, China, you name it. Not to mention all the mickeymousing of voter suppression.