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malaise

(269,063 posts)
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 04:59 PM Apr 2019

Two good reads on Jeopardy James

Jeopardy Wasn’t Designed for a Contestant Like James Holzhauer
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2019/04/james-holzhauer-vs-jeopardys-prize-budget-game-show/587668/
<snip>
Ken Jennings rose to fame after an unprecedented run on Jeopardy 15 years ago: Over the course of 74 episodes, he won a total of roughly $2.5 million.

Recently, a contestant named James Holzhauer has been working toward Jennings’s record at an astonishing pace. After the Friday-evening broadcast of the quiz program, Holzhauer had won about $850,000 over just 12 episodes. If he keeps up that rate, he’ll reach $2.5 million in less than half the time it took Jennings to do so.

Before Holzhauer went on the show, the most money earned in a single episode of Jeopardy was $77,000. During his 12-episode streak, he’s beaten that total not once, but five times, and has set a new record of $131,127. Holzhauer’s success has been attributed not just to his deep trivia knowledge, but also to his aggressive style of play—he homes in on high-value tiles that might contain Daily Doubles, and then often bets enormous sums when he finds them—and his unmatched buzzer-pressing reflexes.

Whatever his method, Holzhauer is far exceeding the show’s average single-day winnings, which a Jeopardy fan website calculated to be $19,980. With his sometimes six-figure daily prizes, how much damage is Holzhauer doing to the show’s finances?
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Response to this article - James did not pioneer this approach to playing - rules should have changes ages ago requiring players to select questions from lowest to highest.

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2019/04/22/jeopardy-winner-james-holzhauer-ken-jennings-record-speaks-out/3537576002/

Ken Jennings 'gobsmacked' by 'Jeopardy!' champ James Holzhauer: 'It's absolutely insane'
<snip>
Jennings, who racked up an impressive $2,520,700 during his streak spoke to Wired about the professional sports gambler who won his 12th game on Friday.

"First of all, I’m just gobsmacked by James. It's absolutely insane what he's doing," Jennings, who etched his place in the show's history in 2004, said in the Q&A. "I thought I had seen everything on 'Jeopardy!' And this is something I would have thought was just impossible...

"He’s maximizing money. He can make two or three times what any other player ever has with that same level of play, which again is top-shelf," Jennings added. "He’s as good as anybody."

Holzhauer reset his own record of single-game winnings Wednesday with a total for the day of $131,127. As of Friday, the top 5 records for single-game totals are in his name, according to the website for "Jeopardy!"

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Two good reads on Jeopardy James (Original Post) malaise Apr 2019 OP
I was talking to a poker playing buddy about this Kingofalldems Apr 2019 #1
While I wish him success, my joy in watching is the competition and not knowing who will win. CurtEastPoint Apr 2019 #2
Well they allowed Jennings 74 games so they can't cap James malaise Apr 2019 #4
He's made the game absolutely unwatchable (for me) and it's one of my favorite shows. LisaM Apr 2019 #3
I can't stand it. a la izquierda Apr 2019 #23
I used to love the game but swore off TV when I had kids. defacto7 Apr 2019 #5
James Holzhauer didn't invent the gutsy high betting FakeNoose Apr 2019 #6
Ditto malaise Apr 2019 #7
No, he didn't really do that. Arthur Chu did, though. LisaM Apr 2019 #8
Ken didn't do it but many many players do it malaise Apr 2019 #9
It's one of the things I watch for. I really don't like it. LisaM Apr 2019 #14
That's a good and thoughtful post malaise Apr 2019 #15
Thanks - you and I have chatted about the show before. LisaM Apr 2019 #16
Austin was goofy and nerdy malaise Apr 2019 #18
I think there is a strange psychology where we start rooting for Jeopardy champions to lose. LisaM Apr 2019 #19
Very true about support for the sports team versus the rest malaise Apr 2019 #21
He's kind of arrogant, too. That turned me off. louis-t Apr 2019 #10
I've Been Wondering If He Has a Photographic Memory Me. Apr 2019 #11
Maybe - he's damned good malaise Apr 2019 #12
It Could Be Why He Has Such A Wide Scope Of Trivia Knowledge Me. Apr 2019 #13
Spoiler malaise Apr 2019 #22
NPR had an episode on this - he reads children's Weekly Reader mag Arazi Apr 2019 #24
James is making the game more exciting NYMinute Apr 2019 #17
Yep malaise Apr 2019 #20
I like James and wish him well. Music Man Apr 2019 #25
Correct me if I'm wrong Docreed2003 Apr 2019 #26

Kingofalldems

(38,459 posts)
1. I was talking to a poker playing buddy about this
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 05:02 PM
Apr 2019

I asked him if he would play against the Jeopardy guy---he said hell to the 10th power no!

CurtEastPoint

(18,650 posts)
2. While I wish him success, my joy in watching is the competition and not knowing who will win.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 05:06 PM
Apr 2019

I have been FFing through the DVR to the end as long as he's on. It takes the fun out of the game.

And I agree: the rules should be tweaked: low to high and also there should be a cap based on $$ or number of appearances. It gets old (to me.)

malaise

(269,063 posts)
4. Well they allowed Jennings 74 games so they can't cap James
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 05:14 PM
Apr 2019

I love the competition too but I am certainly enjoying this. On the other hand I do feel sorry for his competitors.


They can tweak the rules after Alex leaves.

LisaM

(27,813 posts)
3. He's made the game absolutely unwatchable (for me) and it's one of my favorite shows.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 05:13 PM
Apr 2019

I know that others may have differing views, but other than in the tournament games, I've never paid attention to how much money people win. It's a non-starter for me. Like a lot of other people, I like to sort of "play along", see what I know, and I watch it for fun. Seeing every show not just be a runaway, but to get there usually before Double Jeopardy even starts, makes it not fun.

Among other things, I don't like watching the other players get so demoralized (and Alex Trebek doesn't help in this regard, practically taunting new contestants each game; I'd have thought better of him).

Someone will eventually beat him, but they'll have to play it his way to do it. I've never really liked the disruptive style of starting with the high dollar amounts, category jumping, and going on Daily Double hunts, but unfortunately, that may be what we'll end up with in the long run.

I also think they may need to consider whether James is kind of a professional pitted against amateurs and has too much of a built-in advantage. He's a professional game player - makes his money doing sports bets, has been on other game shows, etc. (and his wife was on "Who Wants to be a Millionaire", too). It's like watching the Yankees play a Division III college team.

I can't wait until he loses, but I hope he hasn't spoiled the game for good.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
5. I used to love the game but swore off TV when I had kids.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 05:21 PM
Apr 2019

But I was wondering about Alex Trebek, how's he doing on the show? I wish him well.

FakeNoose

(32,645 posts)
6. James Holzhauer didn't invent the gutsy high betting
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 05:25 PM
Apr 2019

It's been done by lots of other players. The amazing thing is that he knows so much trivia, and his quick recall. Ken Jennings was another player who had encyclopedic knowledge and quick recall. I don't remember if Jennings was a player who went for the high-money squares first, but I don't think he did.

I'm rooting for James as long as his run lasts.


LisaM

(27,813 posts)
8. No, he didn't really do that. Arthur Chu did, though.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 05:31 PM
Apr 2019

He was another player I had to stop watching after a few games - nope, I never climbed aboard what he called "the Chu Chu Train". I don't watch Jeopardy to see people win money. It's not at all what the show is about to me.

There's currently a commercial running (I think it's for Progressive Insurance) where they're playing a game show, and one guy has over $2,000,000 in cash and prizes and the other contestants never even ring in; the champion answers questions before they're even asked. That's what Jeopardy is starting to feel like to me.

LisaM

(27,813 posts)
14. It's one of the things I watch for. I really don't like it.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 05:45 PM
Apr 2019

The high bets don't bug me as much as the category jumping, though I don't like the way Jeopardy James pretends to shove an imaginary pile of chips forward, that's just annoying, like Austin's mannerisms got to be.

I actually like it when the Daily Double is the last clue on the board, and everyone knows it's coming. I think that's fun to see.

IIRC, some guy wrote a book about that strategy and unhappily, a lot of people employ it now. I don't want Jeopardy stranded in the Dark Ages, but I don't love this aggressiveness. I could look up the name of the book, but I don't want to give the writer the help.

I also think categories have played into James' wheelhouse. One of his first few games, I actually audited Double Jeopardy for Q&As where the answers were male, female, or neutral. I don't have my chart handy, but I think it was 14 male, 13 neutral, 3 female, and the Final Jeopardy was also male. Pretty startling. James has read up on a bunch of known categories, but he might get stymied by fashion or sewing terms, and in the games I've watched him play so far, it's tilted quite heavily towards things that might be considered male or neutral.

Note: I'm not passing judgement on the importance or non-importance of every category, or even trying to state what should be considered masculine or feminine. Mostly, it's whether the answer was a man or a woman. I assigned Civil War Battle Sites into the neutral category, for example. You'd think out of 31 questions, more than three could be famous women.

malaise

(269,063 posts)
15. That's a good and thoughtful post
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 05:51 PM
Apr 2019

In reality Jeopardy is trying to keep up with a younger generation who are way more aggressive than generations past. We cannot expect a demonstration of the 'spirit of the game' if rules are not being broken.

I wouldn't play like many of today's players but I wouldn't win either.
As I wrote last week - they will have to change the rules.
Give Austin a break - I did like him.

LisaM

(27,813 posts)
16. Thanks - you and I have chatted about the show before.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 06:06 PM
Apr 2019

I liked Austin quite a bit at first (and I often employ reverse snobbery, rooting for people in what are considered blue collar jobs versus lawyers, doctors, etc.) It was just how he started twirling his hands around and pointing at imaginary stuff!

malaise

(269,063 posts)
18. Austin was goofy and nerdy
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 06:20 PM
Apr 2019

but there was something very authentic about him.

What is certainly true about James is that a sports gambler beating all in The Chase and now Jeopardy is definitely not your average player. I'm not sure what he will do after this but I'm enjoying his run.

My 90 plenty year old aunt (she's actually our last deceased aunt's best friend from childhood) hates anyone who wins too often. She's been quite grumpy these days.

LisaM

(27,813 posts)
19. I think there is a strange psychology where we start rooting for Jeopardy champions to lose.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 06:24 PM
Apr 2019

I've noticed it in myself, obviously, with very few exceptions, and I don't really have an explanation for it. I wouldn't mind if the Detroit Tigers won 162 games or if my football teams go undefeated!

When you get into the TOC, of course, that kind of goes by the wayside, so I'm glad they have all those side tourneys, though I could do without the really young kids, which is no more entertaining to me that watching children bake cakes on the Food Network.

Say hi to your aunt; glad you have her around and she sounds feisty.

malaise

(269,063 posts)
21. Very true about support for the sports team versus the rest
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 06:52 PM
Apr 2019

Sometimes I root against tennis players

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
24. NPR had an episode on this - he reads children's Weekly Reader mag
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 09:06 PM
Apr 2019

Plus other kids news/fact magazines only.

He's found they have fast summaries on.a vast assortment of trivia. In fact, in light of his success, he's speculated that's where they get most of their questions themselves

 

NYMinute

(3,256 posts)
17. James is making the game more exciting
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 06:11 PM
Apr 2019

and Jeopardy!'s rating are going up because of him.

I feel sorry for the challengers though -- they have that "lambs to slaughter" look in their eyes.

However, at the end of the day, someone has to win and he doesn't win by cheating but with a new strategy and phenomenal knowledge.

Music Man

(1,184 posts)
25. I like James and wish him well.
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 09:26 PM
Apr 2019

He's humble (I'm looking at you, Austin Rogers) and matches exciting play with real knowledge. Yes, he bets big and has a strategy for accumulating high-total questions early, but he has the smarts to match it. My academic team, trivia-loving friends from high school are Jeopardy buffs, and we've had a good time discussing him. It's exciting to watch a truly brilliant person play Jeopardy.

I find that when certain players break the game open, they tend to write harder questions, which I appreciate. I am often disappointed when there are lots of gimme questions, including in Final Jeopardy.

I have read that Alex Trebek dislikes when players bounce from category to category because the clues are often written so there's a logical development or progression through the category.

This will only be a good thing for Jeopardy. Hard to see James losing. It will probably be from his own devices rather than an equally good opponent.

Docreed2003

(16,864 posts)
26. Correct me if I'm wrong
Mon Apr 22, 2019, 09:40 PM
Apr 2019

But at some point I read/heard/ not sure but don't they have an idea of what the questions will be ahead of time, sort of like a "preview sheet" if you will...

No doubt he's a very aggressive player but I find it hard to believe that his "knowledge" isn't help by a very effective, almost photographic memory

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