General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsQuestion: Was Mueller directed to use the standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt
when it came to conspiracy and coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia? Why didn't he use the lighter standard of preponderance of evidence? And why didn't he follow Congress's guidelines as to what constitutes conspiracy and coordination?
As the election law expert Paul Seamus Ryan noted, Congress in its 2002 campaign finance law rejected that view: Federal law shall not require agreement or formal collaboration to establish coordination. The federal regulations followed this command: Coordinated means made in cooperation, consultation or concert with, or at the request or suggestion of, a candidate, with no need to show any kind of agreement. Expenditures for coordinated communications are considered in-kind contributions, and foreign contributions public or private are illegal.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/25/opinion/mueller-trump-campaign-russia-conpiracy-.html?smid=tw-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&login=email&auth=login-email
Most of Mueller's work was done before Barr came onto the sceneunless Barr directed him to use proof beyond a reasonable doubt when he arrived.
better
(884 posts)He was operating under the jurisdiction of the Department of Justice, and empowered to evaluate and bring criminal charges, which use the beyond a reasonable doubt standard. Congress can use the lower standard, but I don't believe he could, simply by virtue of the jurisdiction under which he was operating.
markpkessinger
(8,396 posts). . . and preponderance of evidence is the standard in civil matters. That's why.
Cetacea
(7,367 posts)as per numerous former federal attorneys I've listened to.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)has historically been closer to preponderance of the evidence.
The House impeaches. The Senate has a trial and either convicts or doesn't convict.
markpkessinger
(8,396 posts)The standard for indictments is what a prosecutor believes he/she can convince a jury constitutes evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Most of the time, if a prosecutor doesn't believe he has the eviidence necessary to meet the standard for conviction, he won't indict.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)preceding a Senate trial, and an indictment in a regular court is that there are no criminal consequences to being convicted in the Senate -- just the possible loss of a job.
So an impeachment should not require the same "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard as a criminal indictment -- but the decision is ultimately left up to the individual Senator.
http://congressionalresearch.com/98-990/document.php?study=STANDARD+OF+PROOF+IN+SENATE+IMPEACHMENT+PROCEEDINGS
In sum, the Senate has traditionally left the choice of the applicable standard of proof
to each individual Senator. While rejecting a motion to make the criminal standard the
standard in the Claiborne impeachment, the discussion made clear that it was simply a
decision to allow each member to make that choice and not a repudiation of the standard
itself. Individuals might apply that or any other standard of their choice. A walk through
history and an examination of the discussions of legal commentators may aid individuals
in weighing their choices, but provides no definitive answers. Indeed, such an exercise
is perhaps most useful in highlighting basic questions that members will want to ask
themselves when searching for the appropriate standard.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Anything else was just padding his retirement, or using Fitzmas as a guide.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)where he was making multiple millions per year to take this job at standard government pay.
Mueller is a rules follower, the antithesis of Trump, and he was following the rules.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)working in a government environment.
In this case, there is nothing laudable about being a "rules follower" or complying with orders to overlook key aspects of the investigation.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)... Russians operate is mostly cut outs.